Ukrainian War VI: Pyrrhus Returns

[ImperialRussia]

The conflict in Ukraine is just a duck measuring contest which who is superior. Which side is is more obedient than the other Ukraine and Russia. Does the population who side with Russia in Ukraine labeled as terrorist. Do people at their free will label them selfs Russian. Do people both sides want control or we can just call these civilians terrorists who flee to Russia. Do people commit treason in Ukraine in support of Russia do they deserve human rights. Is do Ukrainian label them selfs Russian should they be called terrorists or they real are the cannon fodder of war.

[El Lazaro]

The conflict in Ukraine is just a duck measuring contest which who is superior. Which side is is more obedient than the other Ukraine and Russia. Does the population who side with Russia in Ukraine labeled as terrorist. Do people at their free will label them selves Russian do people want control or we can just call these civilians terrorists who flee to Russia. Do people commit treason in Ukraine in support of Russia do they deserve human rights. Is do Ukrainian label them selves Russian should they be called terrorists or they real are the cannon fodder of war.

My megaduck is bigger than your duckling

[The Pirateariat]

The conflict in Ukraine is just a duck measuring contest which who is superior. Which side is is more obedient than the other Ukraine and Russia. Does the population who side with Russia in Ukraine labeled as terrorist. Do people at their free will label them selves Russian do people want control or we can just call these civilians terrorists who flee to Russia. Do people commit treason in Ukraine in support of Russia do they deserve human rights. Is do Ukrainian label them selves Russian should they be called terrorists or they real are the cannon fodder of war.

I think I disagree, but I can't understand you well enough to know for sure.

[The Two Jerseys]

I'm legitimately curious what "crime" he's accused of committing.

Apparently “Russophobia” under the Russian Criminal Code, possibly referring to Article 282, which prohibits inciting hatred against nationalities. As Graham is a public official and has a salary of at least $174k, he would face imprisonment for up to 5 years or $525k+ in fines. The problem with this is that Russia lacks jurisdiction over the alleged crime.

Ah, so pretty much exactly what I expected: some bullshit extraterritorial jurisdiction claim on a lèse-majesté charge.

[El Lazaro]

The soviet ideology is an offshoot of Marxism and can demonstrably be used to basically just mean "I hate the west" which Marxist thought invites as a result of its precepts. Russia is still a marxist country. Marxist-Putinism. Much like Dengism and China's form of Marxism.

Is this a joke? What the hell is Putin doing that reflects Marxism?

General shittiness and mass murder fantasies

[Andsed]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-issues-arrest-warrant-lindsey-graham-ukraine-comments-rcna86655

Oh boy, it's super serial now

Goddammit Russia why the hell are you making me see Lindsey Graham as being based? That just aint right.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Is this a joke? What the hell is Putin doing that reflects Marxism?

General shittiness and mass murder fantasies

You take 80s action movies too seriously.

[Primitive Communism]

The conflict in Ukraine is just a duck measuring contest which who is superior. Which side is is more obedient than the other Ukraine and Russia. Does the population who side with Russia in Ukraine labeled as terrorist. Do people at their free will label them selves Russian do people want control or we can just call these civilians terrorists who flee to Russia. Do people commit treason in Ukraine in support of Russia do they deserve human rights. Is do Ukrainian label them selves Russian should they be called terrorists or they real are the cannon fodder of war.

I think I disagree, but I can't understand you well enough to know for sure.

I will attempt a translation:

The conflict in Ukraine is just a dick measuring contest to see who is superior. Which side is more obedient than the other, Ukraine or Russia? Are the people in Ukraine who side with Russia terrorists? Do they have free will or are they under the control of Russia? Do traitors to Ukraine who support Russia deserve human rights? Are Ukrainians who call themselves Russians terrorists or are they just cannon fodder for war?

I believe they are cynically asking whether or not the Ukrainians who consider themselves to be Russians, and thus support the Russian invasion, have any agency at all or are just puppets of Putin; whether their opinions or interests matter or not.

[Oceasia]

Russia has lost more than 2000 tanks in their invasion of Ukraine

This includes over half of their pre-existing active tank fleet.

[Tarsonis]

General shittiness and mass murder fantasies

You take 80s action movies too seriously.

You don't just turn them off!

[ImperialRussia]

I think I disagree, but I can't understand you well enough to know for sure.

I will attempt a translation:

The conflict in Ukraine is just a dick measuring contest to see who is superior. Which side is more obedient than the other, Ukraine or Russia? Are the people in Ukraine who side with Russia terrorists? Do they have free will or are they under the control of Russia? Do traitors to Ukraine who support Russia deserve human rights? Are Ukrainians who call themselves Russians terrorists or are they just cannon fodder for war?

I believe they are cynically asking whether or not the Ukrainians who consider themselves to be Russians, and thus support the Russian invasion, have any agency at all or are just puppets of Putin; whether their opinions or interests matter or not.

How can you be inclusive as a Russian to welcome a migrant from a former Soviet Republic or migrant from a another aside from Russian politics.

[Ostroeuropa]

General shittiness and mass murder fantasies

You take 80s action movies too seriously.

If those weren't defining attributes of marxism, why else would so many western marxist academics keep shilling for shitty, murderous, genocidal regimes? We see a bunch of internet nobodies constantly telling us "That's not real communism" but the communists with doctorates certainly seem to think it is. Imagine if we had the current dynamic of the left pointing out how fashy the right wing is and the right wing kept saying "Nah bro that's not real conservatism" while right wingers with a doctorate was goose stepping around the courtyard and plugging racial phrenology at every opportunity.

You'd be tempted to say "Maybe you just don't understand it as well as its most educated proponents do, nor its critics.".

Why does somebody like Chomsky keep defending genocides and Imperialism from non-western powers and basing his behavior on marxist analysis? How does he apply that marxist analysis to Ukraine and come up with "This is all the wests fault"?

I guess Chomsky just doesn't understand Marxism, but you bud, you understand it better.

[Ors Might]

You take 80s action movies too seriously.

If those weren't defining attributes of marxism, why else would so many western marxist academics keep shilling for shitty, murderous, genocidal regimes? We see a bunch of internet nobodies constantly telling us "That's not real communism" but the communists with doctorates certainly seem to think it is. Imagine if we had the current dynamic of the left pointing out how fashy the right wing is and the right wing kept saying "Nah bro that's not real conservatism" while right wingers with a doctorate was goose stepping around the courtyard and plugging racial phrenology at every opportunity.

You'd be tempted to say "Maybe you just don't understand it as well as its most educated proponents do, nor its critics.".

Why does somebody like Chomsky keep defending genocides and Imperialism from non-western powers and basing his behavior on marxist analysis? How does he apply that marxist analysis to Ukraine and come up with "This is all the wests fault"?

I guess Chomsky just doesn't understand Marxism, but you bud, you understand it better.

That academics and Chomsky seem to have a hate boner for the US in no way bolsters your argument that every communist fantasizes about murdering innocents or that we need another round of idiot politicians running around, blacklisting citizens. To pretend otherwise is lazy.

[Picairn]

The soviet ideology is an offshoot of Marxism and can demonstrably be used to basically just mean "I hate the west" which Marxist thought invites as a result of its precepts. Russia is still a marxist country. Marxist-Putinism. Much like Dengism and China's form of Marxism.

This is why Marxists like Chomsky agree with him more often than they agree with the west. Marxism demonstrably produces immoral societies which justify brutality in the belief that so long as they are murdering millions of people and engaged in widespread war crimes and sins in order to acquire power, it is justified as part of a "Revolution" against the western order. They have no morality beyond the pursuit of power and hatred of the west and desire to see it destroyed. It is only after this apocalyptic destruction of the west that they *might* then decide to have something resembling a conscience.

What? Putin is not a Marxist or even a Soviet lover. He explicitly criticized Lenin several times for allowing a legal secession method in the Soviet constitution, which was later cited by the seceding countries to separate from the USSR. He was also critical of Lenin's redrawing of borders along ethnic lines.
https://theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/ ... der-russia

Chomsky agrees with Putin's grievances about the West out of a kneejerk hatred against the US, not because they are ideological partners. Putin does not even pretend to be a communist or Marxist-Leninist, in fact he became disillusioned with communism.

[Primitive Communism]

You take 80s action movies too seriously.

If those weren't defining attributes of marxism, why else would so many western marxist academics keep shilling for shitty, murderous, genocidal regimes? We see a bunch of internet nobodies constantly telling us "That's not real communism" but the communists with doctorates certainly seem to think it is. Imagine if we had the current dynamic of the left pointing out how fashy the right wing is and the right wing kept saying "Nah bro that's not real conservatism" while right wingers with a doctorate was goose stepping around the courtyard and plugging racial phrenology at every opportunity.

You'd be tempted to say "Maybe you just don't understand it as well as its most educated proponents do, nor its critics.".

Why does somebody like Chomsky keep defending genocides and Imperialism from non-western powers and basing his behavior on marxist analysis? How does he apply that marxist analysis to Ukraine and come up with "This is all the wests fault"?

I guess Chomsky just doesn't understand Marxism, but you bud, you understand it better.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with Marxism that modern Marxists have developed a hypocritical perception of imperialism and colonialism to the point of defending eastern actors in these crimes while condemning western actors doing the same.

We lost the Cold War, and like any losing party we have not accepted our defeat with grace or humility but with vindictive spite. As a consequence there are many who cannot move on from this utter failure who feel the need to lash out at the West at every given opportunity. It's juvenile and pointless, of course, but with the impotency of the general Communist movement they feel the need to unleash their rage in any way they can and so latch onto reactionary anti-Western movements out of pure frustration because they feel too powerless to do anything else. They could of course get off their haunches and work on rebuilding the momentum that was lost, but they would rather simmer in largely part because they are used to distant Moscow doing all the work for them and have become lazy as a consequence.

Marx in fact would be quite displeased to see the current state of the Communist movement. If Lenin wasn't under transparent glass in a public mausoleum I'd say he was probably spinning in his grave.

[Bahrimontagn]

The soviet ideology is an offshoot of Marxism and can demonstrably be used to basically just mean "I hate the west" which Marxist thought invites as a result of its precepts. Russia is still a marxist country. Marxist-Putinism. Much like Dengism and China's form of Marxism.

This is why Marxists like Chomsky agree with him more often than they agree with the west. Marxism demonstrably produces immoral societies which justify brutality in the belief that so long as they are murdering millions of people and engaged in widespread war crimes and sins in order to acquire power, it is justified as part of a "Revolution" against the western order. They have no morality beyond the pursuit of power and hatred of the west and desire to see it destroyed. It is only after this apocalyptic destruction of the west that they *might* then decide to have something resembling a conscience.

I invite you to at least consider this viewpoint and address it rather than dismissing it out of hand, especially given that "The pursuit of power under the pretext of defeating the enemy is the only value we care about" was noted about Marxists by Orwell too. Additionally, the Tankie predeliction to "American Diabolism" is on much firmer ground than the above suggestion, especially given that these infiltrations of our academic institutions have gone on for decades and decades, so even with the collapse of the soviet union their outposts in western institutions remain.

When the soviets collapsed, we shouldn't have declared victory. We should have declared a new red scare to destroy the remnants. The number of problems the west faces as a result of 'insufficient persecution of communists' is not zero, much like some believe. The UCU openly doing this shit is one example.

How precisely are we supposed to take any of their geopolitical academic work seriously from now on?

If anything, contemporary Russia is an example of hypercapitalistic oligarchy gone wrong, mixed in with anti-westernism.

Additionally your statement implies that the West is the opposite, in that it does not want to destroy Russia, China etc. Which has evidently not been true. Western leaders have about as much of a conscience as those in China and Russia towards one another: NONE.

[Alcala-Cordel]

You take 80s action movies too seriously.

If those weren't defining attributes of marxism, why else would so many western marxist academics keep shilling for shitty, murderous, genocidal regimes? We see a bunch of internet nobodies constantly telling us "That's not real communism" but the communists with doctorates certainly seem to think it is. Imagine if we had the current dynamic of the left pointing out how fashy the right wing is and the right wing kept saying "Nah bro that's not real conservatism" while right wingers with a doctorate was goose stepping around the courtyard and plugging racial phrenology at every opportunity.

If those are defining attributes of Marxism, why do you have to cherrypick random people to try to prove your point rather than cite Marx himself? Chomsky has his own ideas, but the way you talk about him you'd think he's Marx reincarnated.

[Querria]

Russia has lost more than 2000 tanks in their invasion of Ukraine

This includes over half of their pre-existing active tank fleet.

Hey-ho, you quoted a follower of mine. Cool beans.

[Emotional Support Crocodile]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-65751650

Drones hit Moscow buildings

There have been reports this morning of explosions in and around Moscow.

The city’s mayor Sergei Sobyanin said that drone attacks had caused minor damage to several buildings.

But, he adds that there had been no serious injuries.

At 06:24 local time this morning I myself heard a blast in the distance, and the windows of my home shook.

Half an hour later I heard another explosion.

Judging by the conversations on social media, a lot of people in the Moscow area heard them too.

Suddenly the war in Ukraine feels much closer to home.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

-snip-

I am unsure what Ukraine expects to accomplish with this. Seems to be self-defeating.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

-snip-

I am unsure what Ukraine expects to accomplish with this. Seems to be self-defeating.

Reminding the Muscovites that there's actually a war going on.

[Picairn]

-snip-

I am unsure what Ukraine expects to accomplish with this. Seems to be self-defeating.

Ukraine's leadership is on board with the idea to "take the fight to the Russians". Here's Zelensky's plan per the Washington Post:

But behind closed doors, Ukraine’s leader has proposed going in a more audacious direction — occupying Russian villages to gain leverage over Moscow, bombing a pipeline that transfers Russian oil to Hungary, a NATO member, and privately pining for long-range missiles to hit targets inside Russia’s borders, according to classified U.S. intelligence documents detailing his internal communications with top aides and military leaders.

[...] In a meeting in late January, Zelensky suggested Ukraine “conduct strikes in Russia” while moving Ukrainian ground troops into enemy territory to “occupy unspecified Russian border cities,” according to one document labeled “top secret.” The goal would be “to give Kyiv leverage in talks with Moscow,” the document said.

In a separate meeting in late February with Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, Ukraine’s top military commander, Zelensky “expressed concern” that “Ukraine does not have long-range missiles capable of reaching Russian troop deployments in Russia nor anything with which to attack them.” Zelensky then “suggested that Ukraine attack unspecified deployment locations in Rostov,” a region in western Russia, using drones instead, according to another classified document.

In a meeting in mid-February with Deputy Prime Minister Yuliya Svrydenko, Zelensky suggested Ukraine “blow up” the Soviet-built Druzhba pipeline that provides oil to Hungary. “Zelenskyy highlighted that … Ukraine should just blow up the pipeline and destroy likely Hungarian [Prime Minister] Viktor Orban’s industry, which is based heavily on Russian oil,” the document says.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

In a meeting in mid-February with Deputy Prime Minister Yuliya Svrydenko, Zelensky suggested Ukraine “blow up” the Soviet-built Druzhba pipeline that provides oil to Hungary. “Zelenskyy highlighted that … Ukraine should just blow up the pipeline and destroy likely Hungarian [Prime Minister] Viktor Orban’s industry, which is based heavily on Russian oil,” the document says.

One would think that Herr Orban would be more... amenable towards Ukraine and the Ukrainian situation considering that Kyiv literally has its hands wrapped around Hungary's economic neck.

[The Selkie]

In a meeting in mid-February with Deputy Prime Minister Yuliya Svrydenko, Zelensky suggested Ukraine “blow up” the Soviet-built Druzhba pipeline that provides oil to Hungary. “Zelenskyy highlighted that … Ukraine should just blow up the pipeline and destroy likely Hungarian [Prime Minister] Viktor Orban’s industry, which is based heavily on Russian oil,” the document says.

One would think that Herr Orban would be more... amenable towards Ukraine and the Ukrainian situation considering that Kyiv literally has its hands wrapped around Hungary's economic neck.

If something were to happen to his oil supply, he most likely presumes (and is reasonably likely correct in presuming), that the EU will bail him out. And, to be reasonably honest, that sucks.
The Gulaschkanone should learn, that actions have consequences, especially when he is biting the hand that feeds him.

[El Lazaro]

-snip-

I am unsure what Ukraine expects to accomplish with this. Seems to be self-defeating.

Destabilizing Russia. The question of whether the Kremlin can maintain the war effort is as much an informational one as a military one. A politicized population is easier to mobilize and harder to control. While Ukraine bringing the informational war to Russia is already threatening enough, a lack of an adequate response will weaken the Putin regime internally, as will an overreaction.

It’s kind of like a jab to the face. It’s not going to put an end to the fight, but it will:
1. Show the other guy his face is undefended
2. Catch him off guard so you can land other blows
3. Bait him into getting angry and mistake-prone

Putin needs to be careful with escalating the war within Russia at a manageable pace, but he cannot allow Ukraine to continue striking undefended Russian territory. This is a more difficult task than simply following his mobilization plan step-by-step.