Ukrainian War VI: Did you ever know...

[The Selkie]

UCU (The union for university lecturers and professors) has passed a motion condemning Zelensky and calling for an immediate halt of aid to Ukraine.

Members of the University and Colleges Union (UCU), which has been holding its Congress at Glasgow's SEC, backed a motion accusing President Volodymyr Zelenskyy of wanting the country to become an “armed, illiberal outpost of US imperialism”.

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An amendment to tone down the motion, including deleting the comment about Zelenskyy and including a section calling for a peaceful resolution to the conflict “based on freedom and independence for Ukraine” was defeated.

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Dr Yuliya Yurchenko, of Greenwich University, tweeted: “To colleagues compelled (like me) to just leave the union: let's stay and fight this.

“We can't grant red-brown tankies (or managers hoping to weaken the union) the satisfaction nor the upper hand. They won't defeat us.”

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23554 ... s-ukraine/

https://roarnews.co.uk/2023/ucu-congres ... g-ukraine/

Bare in mind this implies that the majority of UK academics are pro-russian stooges. Ofcourse "Marxist infiltration of universities to destroy the west" is just a conspiracy theory apparently.

...at least it's not German pacifists this time around...

[The Rio Grande River Basin]

UCU (The union for university lecturers and professors) has passed a motion condemning Zelensky and calling for an immediate halt of aid to Ukraine.



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https://www.thenational.scot/news/23554 ... s-ukraine/

https://roarnews.co.uk/2023/ucu-congres ... g-ukraine/

Bare in mind this implies that the majority of UK academics are pro-russian stooges. Ofcourse "Marxist infiltration of universities to destroy the west" is just a conspiracy theory apparently.

...at least it's not German pacifists this time around...

So communist union workers support Russia. Wow. Look, I’m all for unions, but it’s no secret colleges are usually mostly communists or Nazis.

[Bradfordville]

...at least it's not German pacifists this time around...

So communist union workers support Russia. Wow. Look, I’m all for unions, but it’s no secret colleges are usually mostly communists or Nazis.

Probably more communists than nazis tbh. A communist can find friends on a university campus but a nazi, which likely to try and evangelize there, is more likely to find violence.

[The Archregimancy]

UCU (The union for university lecturers and professors) has passed a motion condemning Zelensky and calling for an immediate halt of aid to Ukraine.

<snip>

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23554 ... s-ukraine/

https://roarnews.co.uk/2023/ucu-congres ... g-ukraine/

Bare in mind this implies that the majority of UK academics are pro-russian stooges. Ofcourse "Marxist infiltration of universities to destroy the west" is just a conspiracy theory apparently.

A relevant reply from the UK politics thread:

The UCU vote on Ukraine was a terrible decision, and one many of my colleagues in academia strongly oppose (though obviously not effectively enough).

But that terrible vote is not itself in any way evidence of rampant Marxism within the halls of British academia. There are plenty of politicians on the American far right who are in favour of ending active Western military support for Ukraine while asking for an immediate ceasefire; and the last time I checked, no one is accusing Marjorie Taylor Greene and Ron DeSantis of being Marxists.

Short version: short-sighted idiocy is not ideology-dependent.

[The Two Jerseys]

We can absolutely have a Russian Crimea... if it remains 100% demilitarised so as to never form the springboard to another imperialist and colonialist war again.

Given the presence of Russia's Sevastapol naval base that'll never happen.

Mers-el-Kébir, anyone?

[The Selkie]

...at least it's not German pacifists this time around...

So communist union workers support Russia. Wow. Look, I’m all for unions, but it’s no secret colleges are usually mostly communists or Nazis.

Two points I'd like to make:
1. Some communist unions, not all, not all workers, support Russia - or are against aiding the Ukraine.
2. Colleges, and universities, for that matter, are very diverse politically speaking. However, at least in Europe, they are more left-leaning then right. For instance, these are the results for the elections of the Austrian Students' Association (ÖH) in 2021. VSStÖ, GRAS, KSV LiLi and KSV-KJÖ are all left, communists, anti-capitalist or some variation of that. JUNOS are liberals, AG is closely associated with the conservative ÖVP, RFS is the youth wing of the FPÖ (the wannabe-Nazis) and FLÖ are independent. 2023's elections don't look too different. And despite that, quite a few ÖHs demand a cessation of hostilities in the Ukraine, showing solidarity with the Ukraine and its people and condemn the Russian War of Aggression, for instance the ÖH-Salzburg (the results of the 2021 ÖH-elections in Salzburg).

So, tl;dr, it bears repeating: Left-leaning does not mean supporting Russia.

[The Rio Grande River Basin]

So communist union workers support Russia. Wow. Look, I’m all for unions, but it’s no secret colleges are usually mostly communists or Nazis.

Two points I'd like to make:
1. Some communist unions, not all, not all workers, support Russia - or are against aiding the Ukraine.
2. Colleges, and universities, for that matter, are very diverse politically speaking. However, at least in Europe, they are more left-leaning then right. For instance, these are the results for the elections of the Austrian Students' Association (ÖH) in 2021. VSStÖ, GRAS, KSV LiLi and KSV-KJÖ are all left, communists, anti-capitalist or some variation of that. JUNOS are liberals, AG is closely associated with the conservative ÖVP, RFS is the youth wing of the FPÖ (the wannabe-Nazis) and FLÖ are independent. 2023's elections don't look too different. And despite that, quite a few ÖHs demand a cessation of hostilities in the Ukraine, showing solidarity with the Ukraine and its people and condemn the Russian War of Aggression, for instance the ÖH-Salzburg (the results of the 2021 ÖH-elections in Salzburg).

So, tl;dr, it bears repeating: Left-leaning does not mean supporting Russia.

Ik. I’m pretty far on the left. But as I say, radicals from both sides are the greatest base of support Russia has. Commies are “tEh WeSt bAd”, the far right is “tRaDiTiOn aNd TeH JoOs WeSt BaD”

[El Lazaro]

Maybe McCarthyism wasn’t entirely wrong. Marxists, as with fascists, should at least be ostracized in the public sector and similar jobs.

[Bradfordville]

Maybe McCarthyism wasn’t entirely wrong.

McCarthyism was very wrong, ruined peoples lives, and served to defend an establishment that was pretty morally reprehensible in their own ways. I'd rather have rando communists and fascists running around than have the government deciding what is "wrongthink," and not even based on the morality of said ideology as much as based on the self interest of the ruling class.

[Port Caverton]

Maybe McCarthyism wasn’t entirely wrong. Marxists, as with fascists, should at least be ostracized in the public sector and similar jobs.

Agree, only Social Liberals (Establisment Democrats) and Conservative Liberals (Neoconservative Republicans) should be allowed in government.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

We can absolutely have a Russian Crimea... if it remains 100% demilitarised so as to never form the springboard to another imperialist and colonialist war again.

Given the presence of Russia's Sevastapol naval base that'll never happen.

Well then the solution is simple.

Remove the possibility of there ever being a naval base there ever again.

Operation Plowshare is a go.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

the russian black sea "fleet" can go park in sochi for all i care.

[Tarsonis]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russ ... -rcna86655

Oh boy, it's super serial now

[The Rio Grande River Basin]

the russian black sea "fleet" can go park in sochi for all i care.

Let's call the fleet what it is. A bunch of neck beards running a 90 year old rustbucket, which is already sinking, and they sold off all the duct tape they had.

[El Lazaro]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-issues-arrest-warrant-lindsey-graham-ukraine-comments-rcna86655

Oh boy, it's super serial now

This would improve US-Russia relations significantly, but it’s not enough to make up for the SMO.

[Urkennalaid]

So communist union workers support Russia. Wow. Look, I’m all for unions, but it’s no secret colleges are usually mostly communists or Nazis.

Two points I'd like to make:
1. Some communist unions, not all, not all workers, support Russia - or are against aiding the Ukraine.
2. Colleges, and universities, for that matter, are very diverse politically speaking. However, at least in Europe, they are more left-leaning then right. For instance, these are the results for the elections of the Austrian Students' Association (ÖH) in 2021. VSStÖ, GRAS, KSV LiLi and KSV-KJÖ are all left, communists, anti-capitalist or some variation of that. JUNOS are liberals, AG is closely associated with the conservative ÖVP, RFS is the youth wing of the FPÖ (the wannabe-Nazis) and FLÖ are independent. 2023's elections don't look too different. And despite that, quite a few ÖHs demand a cessation of hostilities in the Ukraine, showing solidarity with the Ukraine and its people and condemn the Russian War of Aggression, for instance the ÖH-Salzburg (the results of the 2021 ÖH-elections in Salzburg).

So, tl;dr, it bears repeating: Left-leaning does not mean supporting Russia.

No no you don't understand, communists all share the same opinions on things. Very smart analysis.

Regardless, if you are out here supporting Russia you aren't really communist, considering Russia is anything BUT communist.

[The Two Jerseys]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-issues-arrest-warrant-lindsey-graham-ukraine-comments-rcna86655

Oh boy, it's super serial now

I'm legitimately curious what "crime" he's accused of committing.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Two points I'd like to make:
1. Some communist unions, not all, not all workers, support Russia - or are against aiding the Ukraine.
2. Colleges, and universities, for that matter, are very diverse politically speaking. However, at least in Europe, they are more left-leaning then right. For instance, these are the results for the elections of the Austrian Students' Association (ÖH) in 2021. VSStÖ, GRAS, KSV LiLi and KSV-KJÖ are all left, communists, anti-capitalist or some variation of that. JUNOS are liberals, AG is closely associated with the conservative ÖVP, RFS is the youth wing of the FPÖ (the wannabe-Nazis) and FLÖ are independent. 2023's elections don't look too different. And despite that, quite a few ÖHs demand a cessation of hostilities in the Ukraine, showing solidarity with the Ukraine and its people and condemn the Russian War of Aggression, for instance the ÖH-Salzburg (the results of the 2021 ÖH-elections in Salzburg).

So, tl;dr, it bears repeating: Left-leaning does not mean supporting Russia.

No no you don't understand, communists all share the same opinions on things. Very smart analysis.

Regardless, if you are out here supporting Russia you aren't really communist, considering Russia is anything BUT communist.

"but what if letting russia or prc dominate the planet leads to a socialist world revolution"
or something to that effect

[Bradfordville]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-issues-arrest-warrant-lindsey-graham-ukraine-comments-rcna86655

Oh boy, it's super serial now

I wouldn't mind seeing the Russians take Graham away, never to be seen again. The guy is a clown with no face paint.

[Great Britain eke Northern Ireland]

Two points I'd like to make:
1. Some communist unions, not all, not all workers, support Russia - or are against aiding the Ukraine.
2. Colleges, and universities, for that matter, are very diverse politically speaking. However, at least in Europe, they are more left-leaning then right. For instance, these are the results for the elections of the Austrian Students' Association (ÖH) in 2021. VSStÖ, GRAS, KSV LiLi and KSV-KJÖ are all left, communists, anti-capitalist or some variation of that. JUNOS are liberals, AG is closely associated with the conservative ÖVP, RFS is the youth wing of the FPÖ (the wannabe-Nazis) and FLÖ are independent. 2023's elections don't look too different. And despite that, quite a few ÖHs demand a cessation of hostilities in the Ukraine, showing solidarity with the Ukraine and its people and condemn the Russian War of Aggression, for instance the ÖH-Salzburg (the results of the 2021 ÖH-elections in Salzburg).

So, tl;dr, it bears repeating: Left-leaning does not mean supporting Russia.

No no you don't understand, communists all share the same opinions on things. Very smart analysis.

Regardless, if you are out here supporting Russia you aren't really communist, considering Russia is anything BUT communist.

To be honest, that stinks of 'No True Scotsman'. Many Communists do support Russia in this war, as they did when Russia was sending tanks into Hungary and Czechoslovakia, as they did when Russia invaded Poland, and as they did countless other times that Russia’s done bad things. Communists aren’t anti-imperialist freedom-lovers, they’re typically the opposite.

[Bradfordville]

No no you don't understand, communists all share the same opinions on things. Very smart analysis.

Regardless, if you are out here supporting Russia you aren't really communist, considering Russia is anything BUT communist.

"but what if letting russia or prc dominate the planet leads to a socialist world revolution"
or something to that effect

I think the support given by certain tankies to modern Russia is a good parable on what unchecked hate will do to a person. These folks hate the US so much, they'll even make a deal with the devil just to spite it.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Maybe McCarthyism wasn’t entirely wrong.

It was.

Marxists, as with fascists, should at least be ostracized in the public sector and similar jobs.

That's not what McCarthyism was. He'd accuse all sorts of people of being communists to blacklist them. Still a terrible idea.

[The Selkie]

No no you don't understand, communists all share the same opinions on things. Very smart analysis.

Regardless, if you are out here supporting Russia you aren't really communist, considering Russia is anything BUT communist.

Please kindly indicate if your first sentence was sarcasm or not.
The reason is, that I know quite a few (self-proclaimed, admittedly) communists, who can't even agree on what communism is, so before I go down the rabbit hole (and possible threadjack) of throwing examples at you where communists didn't agree (first and foremost of course the Sino-Soviet Split), I'd like to know, if you were sarcastic or not. It is a bit hard to tell in text form, you see...

As for Russia being communist or not... well, it is a oligarchic kleptocracy meeting the textbook definition of fascism, which tried its hand at Imperialism and is currently utterly failing for a variety of reasons.
But Rio Grande was correct to point out:

[...] But as I say, radicals from both sides are the greatest base of support Russia has. [...]

It almost seems as if Putin somehow managed to attract the support of both ends of the political spectrum, regardless of how diametrical opposed they usually pretend to be (yes, this was phrased this way on purpose).
Yet it also seems as if the political ideology matters little in regards to the support of Russia or its condemnation - to stay on the left, Sahra Wagenknecht, leader of the German communist party Die Linke is a staunch supporter of Putin and against arms deliveries to the Ukraine, for an end of the sanctions and, together with Alice Schwarzer, for peace at all costs, while the left to far-left Podemos in Spain is one of Europe's strongest supporter for the Ukraine.
In fact, in the European Parliament, you will find support for Russia from such diverse parties such diverse parties such as the AfD (German Wannabe Nazis) and the Communist Party of Portugal (and you'll have to scroll a bit).
So, it almost seems as if support for Russia is not bound to political ideologies but rather to Russian money. But that's just a theory.

[El Lazaro]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-issues-arrest-warrant-lindsey-graham-ukraine-comments-rcna86655

Oh boy, it's super serial now

I'm legitimately curious what "crime" he's accused of committing.

Apparently “Russophobia” under the Russian Criminal Code, possibly referring to Article 282, which prohibits inciting hatred against nationalities. As Graham is a public official and has a salary of at least $174k, he would face imprisonment for up to 5 years or $525k+ in fines. The problem with this is that Russia lacks jurisdiction over the alleged crime.

[Alcala-Cordel]

How much exactly does Marxism have to do with post-Soviet Russia?

The soviet ideology is an offshoot of Marxism and can demonstrably be used to basically just mean "I hate the west" which Marxist thought invites as a result of its precepts. Russia is still a marxist country. Marxist-Putinism. Much like Dengism and China's form of Marxism.

Is this a joke? What the hell is Putin doing that reflects Marxism?

This is why Marxists like Chomsky agree with him more often than they agree with the west. Marxism demonstrably produces immoral societies which justify brutality in the belief that so long as they are murdering millions of people and engaged in widespread war crimes and sins in order to acquire power, it is justified as part of a "Revolution" against the western order. They have no morality beyond the pursuit of power and hatred of the west and desire to see it destroyed. It is only after this apocalyptic destruction of the west that they *might* then decide to have something resembling a conscience.

Marxism isn't about blindly hating western powers. Russia may not align with US interests, but their imperialist behavior isn't revolutionary. Unipolar hegemony is inherently unstable, and Russia is filling a space for alternatives to American dominance. Russia is crushing its own working people, and those in Ukraine.

I invite you to at least consider this viewpoint and address it rather than dismissing it out of hand, especially given that "The pursuit of power under the pretext of defeating the enemy is the only value we care about" was noted about Marxists by Orwell too. Additionally, the Tankie predeliction to "American Diabolism" is on much firmer ground than the above suggestion, especially given that these infiltrations of our academic institutions have gone on for decades and decades, so even with the collapse of the soviet union their outposts in western institutions remain.

There really isn't much to consider here. Your idea of Marxism is factually incorrect and does not reflect the Marxist perspective on world politics at all. A Marxist would be more likely to consider the war a struggle between international elites played out in Ukraine with little regard for everyone caught in the middle. It's pretty obvious Putin is the main aggressor.

When the soviets collapsed, we shouldn't have declared victory. We should have declared a new red scare to destroy the remnants. The number of problems the west faces as a result of 'insufficient persecution of communists' is not zero, much like some believe. The UCU openly doing this shit is one example.

I'm sure the United States would be much better off if it spent the post-Cold War years flailing around in the dark at imaginary communist powers. Do you check under your bed for Marxists before going to sleep?

How precisely are we supposed to take any of their geopolitical academic work seriously from now on?

It definitely reflects a bias, but it's a massive stretch to blame this on Marxism. Still, there are legitimate reasons to oppose NATO involvement in war. As horrible as Putin is, the United States is not the world police and tends to make things worse whenever it gets involved. Most of our bloated military has no reasonable explanation for its existence beyond paranoia.