Calls for violence against LGBTQ people intensify

[Fahran]

If you pay attention to the legislative agenda of the people pushing anti-trans and LGBT agendas we're well past the idea of 'maintaining the status quo'. Pride parades are getting banned Fahran. It's very clear that the anti-trans movement is using things like sports and drag queen story time as a wedge to roll back gains made ever since the 2000s. The Texas AG was literally musing re-litigating sodomy laws for crying out loud.

If you follow Texas politics at all, you’d realize that the thought of a sodomy ban returning is exceedingly remote. Some clown introduced a bill to that effect that idled in the House until it died. The Texas GOP needs to retain the liberal-leaning suburbs to continue holding power. They’re populated by liberal pro-business types who likely would not countenance a ban on sodomy or same-sex marriage. With how Texas party politics work, we can be fairly certain the Lieutenant Governor or Whips had a hand in telling the religious conservatives to sit down and shut up. You’re correct about these topics being wedge issues, but the idea that we’re looking at a group of people who have somehow moved to the right has no basis in reality, especially not on the whole.

What, you mean directly quoting something you said and interpreting it literally?

I remember when Des-Bal did that to you a little earlier.

[Dimetrodon Empire]

No, it's that they're not in the position to enact such a ban until after they destroy what's left of American democracy.

[Nilokeras]

If you pay attention to the legislative agenda of the people pushing anti-trans and LGBT agendas we're well past the idea of 'maintaining the status quo'. Pride parades are getting banned Fahran. It's very clear that the anti-trans movement is using things like sports and drag queen story time as a wedge to roll back gains made ever since the 2000s. The Texas AG was literally musing re-litigating sodomy laws for crying out loud.

If you follow Texas politics at all, you’d realize that the thought of a sodomy ban returning is exceedingly remote. Some clown introduced a bill to that effect that idled in the House until it died. The Texas GOP needs to retain the liberal-leaning suburbs to continue holding power. They’re populated by liberal pro-business types who likely would not countenance a ban on sodomy or same-sex marriage. With how Texas party politics work, we can be fairly certain the Lieutenant Governor or Whips had a hand in telling the religious conservatives to sit down and shut up. You’re correct about these topics being wedge issues, but the idea that we’re looking at a group of people who have somehow moved to the right has no basis in reality, especially not on the whole.

Whether or not they can accomplish it now is not the point. Sodomy laws are probably dead in the water, but openly musing about re-litigating them is how you push the Overton window a bit more with every statement. And that's helped by the anti-trans strategy: reactionary state governments can't re-ban sodomy or gay marriage anymore, but they can absolutely use the panic around trans people to make it so that it becomes de facto illegal to be gay in public.

And that's how the war of attrition turns back in their favour - public opinion is a lot easier to influence when LGBT people stop being visible and you ban all content in schools or universities that even mentions the existence of gender non-conformity or non-heterosexual identities. None of this should be surprising considering its this exact kind of long march through the institutions of the state that got them Roe v Wade overturned. And they've got the Supreme Court locked up for another god knows how many more decades - they have the time to wait.

What, you mean directly quoting something you said and interpreting it literally?

I remember when Des-Bal did that to you a little earlier.

I'm perfectly capable of defending my own words. Are you?

[Imperiul romanum]

A reason why I am... The name is...''Ionuț,, and entire school has liked him when has follwed me and etc.

I feel like disliking all LGBT+ people because a single guy may have sexually harassed you, while understandable as a trauma response, is about as valid as an argument that I’m justified in disliking all straight men because I began getting cat-called by much older men beginning in middle school.

And if you will hear the voice of this kid...you will freeze

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

I feel like disliking all LGBT+ people because a single guy may have sexually harassed you, while understandable as a trauma response, is about as valid as an argument that I’m justified in disliking all straight men because I began getting cat-called by much older men beginning in middle school.

And if you will hear the voice of this kid...you will freeze

“I rolled a d20 one time and rolled a one. therefore, all future rolls will be 1 with 100% probability.”

[Imperiul romanum]

And if you will hear the voice of this kid...you will freeze

“I rolled a d20 one time and rolled a one. therefore, all future rolls will be 1 with 100% probability.”

?

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

“I rolled a d20 one time and rolled a one. therefore, all future rolls will be 1 with 100% probability.”

?

meeting one bad person and assuming all people in the same category are bad is like rolling a 1 on a die and expecting to always roll a 1 on every die.

[The Craggo Republic]

This is not surprising. So much religious hate out there.

This news is awful to hear, but nice flag.

[Washington Resistance Army]

And that's how the war of attrition turns back in their favour - public opinion is a lot easier to influence when LGBT people stop being visible and you ban all content in schools or universities that even mentions the existence of gender non-conformity or non-heterosexual identities.

I'm not really sure this is true actually. For a good few years after Hodges the LGBT movement stopped being a huge focal point in the culture war to most people and it kind of vanished from mainstream media for a while and during that time support for various things the movement espouses trended upwards pretty much non-stop amongst most all demographics. Polling wise at least there's only been reversals and declines since the movement became a big part of the culture war again and started getting lots of media attention once more. At least from looking at the numbers it seems like the GOP has an easier time influencing people when LGBT people and the movement are very visible, which doesn't seem terribly shocking to me at least because I'd imagine that's how it goes for most topics.

[Ostroeuropa]

If you pay attention to the legislative agenda of the people pushing anti-trans and LGBT agendas we're well past the idea of 'maintaining the status quo'. Pride parades are getting banned Fahran. It's very clear that the anti-trans movement is using things like sports and drag queen story time as a wedge to roll back gains made ever since the 2000s. The Texas AG was literally musing re-litigating sodomy laws for crying out loud.

If you follow Texas politics at all, you’d realize that the thought of a sodomy ban returning is exceedingly remote. Some clown introduced a bill to that effect that idled in the House until it died. The Texas GOP needs to retain the liberal-leaning suburbs to continue holding power. They’re populated by liberal pro-business types who likely would not countenance a ban on sodomy or same-sex marriage. With how Texas party politics work, we can be fairly certain the Lieutenant Governor or Whips had a hand in telling the religious conservatives to sit down and shut up. You’re correct about these topics being wedge issues, but the idea that we’re looking at a group of people who have somehow moved to the right has no basis in reality, especially not on the whole.

What, you mean directly quoting something you said and interpreting it literally?

I remember when Des-Bal did that to you a little earlier.

It seems to me that the american right, and indeed the wider anglosphere, is not homophobic. They are heteronormative. These are often conflated by progressives, but there is a key distinction when it comes to things like sodomy laws. They're never getting passed again. Not unless society collapses at least.

A gay man who hates progressives, presents as masculine coded, and is broadly "A normal dude" is more than welcome among them and they're not going to take very kindly to suggestions they want to criminalize his sex life. The cat is so to speak out of the bag. The homosexual "Normal right wing dudes" have come out of the closet and built relationships in the community of right wingers. You might get the occasional wobbling over whether he should legally be able to get married, but even that is slowly being put down as the heteronormativity begins to trump it with;

"Well perhaps they SHOULD get married. No sex before marriage after all.".

It is in some respects similar to the view on race and right-wing minorties.

"I also believe that the societal template should be a heterosexual white couple with 2.3 kids. I aspire to be as close to that as I can and want everybody to do so."

"But you're a gay black teacher?"

"It's rude to point it out.".

"Don't you want people to... know about you and your place in society?"

"Only in so far as they know about my support for that template. There are white heterosexual couples with 2.3 kids, and those who aspire to be as close to that model as possible."

"So... what about the whole groomer thing?"

"Kids should be told to be a heterosexual white couple with 2.3 kids. Because I believe this, they do not consider me a groomer."

"... i don't get it."

"Your shirt is loud and irritating and has too many sparkles and colors."

"It's pride month..."

*hisses like a cat*.

---

The republicans are not likely to throw this person under the bus to be frank. It would alienate too many of their white heterosexual voters.

[Rusozak]

I feel like disliking all LGBT+ people because a single guy may have sexually harassed you, while understandable as a trauma response, is about as valid as an argument that I’m justified in disliking all straight men because I began getting cat-called by much older men beginning in middle school.

And if you will hear the voice of this kid...you will freeze

Seems rather childish to support the persecution of an entire minority because of a single individual.

[Fahran]

I feel like disliking all LGBT+ people because a single guy may have sexually harassed you, while understandable as a trauma response, is about as valid as an argument that I’m justified in disliking all straight men because I began getting cat-called by much older men beginning in middle school.

And if you will hear the voice of this kid...you will freeze

Would I though? You got sexually harassed by an awkward teenager, who was your age at the time. Your discomfort with gay men makes some sense as a trauma response, but that doesn’t mean we should base policy on it. Likewise, I definitely avoid strange men when I’m alone. I’m not unhinged enough to ban men from going outside.

[Imperiul romanum]

And if you will hear the voice of this kid...you will freeze

Would I though? You got sexually harassed by an awkward teenager, who was your age at the time. Your discomfort with gay men makes some sense as a trauma response, but that doesn’t mean we should base policy on it. Likewise, I definitely avoid strange men when I’m alone. I’m not unhinged enough to ban men from going outside.

..agree

[Fahran]

..agree

Well, I appreciate your sensibility. And I hope you can meet gay folks who aren’t creepers - either because they’re socially awkward or have no sense of boundaries. There are a lot of decent people in the world. We shouldn’t let one bad experience blind us to that.

[Dreria]

A reason why I am... The name is...''Ionuț,, and entire school has liked him when has follwed me and etc.

I feel like disliking all LGBT+ people because a single guy may have sexually harassed you, while understandable as a trauma response, is about as valid as an argument that I’m justified in disliking all straight men because I began getting cat-called by much older men beginning in middle school.

both are good

[The Black Forrest]

A reason why I am... The name is...''Ionuț,, and entire school has liked him when has follwed me and etc.

I feel like disliking all LGBT+ people because a single guy may have sexually harassed you, while understandable as a trauma response, is about as valid as an argument that I’m justified in disliking all straight men because I began getting cat-called by much older men beginning in middle school.

Eh? What country was that? Cat calling middle schoolers would get you into problems here…..

[Senkaku]

And that's how the war of attrition turns back in their favour - public opinion is a lot easier to influence when LGBT people stop being visible and you ban all content in schools or universities that even mentions the existence of gender non-conformity or non-heterosexual identities.

I'm not really sure this is true actually. For a good few years after Hodges the LGBT movement stopped being a huge focal point in the culture war to most people and it kind of vanished from mainstream media for a while and during that time support for various things the movement espouses trended upwards pretty much non-stop amongst most all demographics. Polling wise at least there's only been reversals and declines since the movement became a big part of the culture war again and started getting lots of media attention once more. At least from looking at the numbers it seems like the GOP has an easier time influencing people when LGBT people and the movement are very visible, which doesn't seem terribly shocking to me at least because I'd imagine that's how it goes for most topics.

Do you think we all went underground or turned invisible for a few years after Hodges? Do you think the movement becoming a big part of the culture war and getting lots of media attention is a function of LGBT people waking up sometime in the 2010s and deciding to just go be insane in public? No— the right was in disarray after a big defeat and took some time to reorient, and at about the same time right wing media and the internal structure of the GOP were going through massive changes brought about by technological development and the political pressures of the Obama years. Their subsequent cultural counteroffensive has put us back in the crosshairs; this isn’t just an organic backlash because we’ve once again gotten too uppity and visible after being generously given gay marriage. You’ve just been parroting this same ridiculous line every few pages as if saying it again makes it make more sense— “the movement” did not mysteriously write itself a mountain of bad PR or put itself center-stage in the culture war, the far right has been doing that.

[Urkennalaid]

I'm not really sure this is true actually. For a good few years after Hodges the LGBT movement stopped being a huge focal point in the culture war to most people and it kind of vanished from mainstream media for a while and during that time support for various things the movement espouses trended upwards pretty much non-stop amongst most all demographics. Polling wise at least there's only been reversals and declines since the movement became a big part of the culture war again and started getting lots of media attention once more. At least from looking at the numbers it seems like the GOP has an easier time influencing people when LGBT people and the movement are very visible, which doesn't seem terribly shocking to me at least because I'd imagine that's how it goes for most topics.

Do you think we all went underground or turned invisible for a few years after Hodges? Do you think the movement becoming a big part of the culture war and getting lots of media attention is a function of LGBT people waking up sometime in the 2010s and deciding to just go be insane in public? No— the right was in disarray after a big defeat and took some time to reorient, and at about the same time right wing media and the internal structure of the GOP were going through massive changes brought about by technological development and the political pressures of the Obama years. Their subsequent cultural counteroffensive has put us back in the crosshairs; this isn’t just an organic backlash because we’ve once again gotten too uppity and visible after being generously given gay marriage. You’ve just been parroting this same ridiculous line every few pages as if saying it again makes it make more sense— “the movement” did not mysteriously write itself a mountain of bad PR or put itself center-stage in the culture war, the far right has been doing that.

It's not like this is an unknown fact, there's videos of republican APAC donors who literally said, "we failed on the issue of gay marriage, but if we use trans people as an enemy, that may get our message across better to our voters." They are demons. They always use minority groups as scapegoats and they know that their hatred is a losing battle so they have to keep upping the ante and moving towards different groups. People really whitewash history as if gay marriage wasn't legal in many states not even 9 YEARS AGO. IT WASNT THAT LONG AGO CONSERVATIVES WERE SAYING THE SAME SHIT ABOUT TRANS PEOPLE THAT THEY DO TO GAY PEOPLE.

One thing that hit me on how recent it was is that FIVE NIGHTS AT FREDDY'S IS LITERALLY OLDER THAN THE OFFICIAL LEGALIZATION OF GAY MARRIAGE THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE US. THAT'S INSANE

[Ifreann]

I'm not really sure this is true actually. For a good few years after Hodges the LGBT movement stopped being a huge focal point in the culture war to most people and it kind of vanished from mainstream media for a while and during that time support for various things the movement espouses trended upwards pretty much non-stop amongst most all demographics. Polling wise at least there's only been reversals and declines since the movement became a big part of the culture war again and started getting lots of media attention once more. At least from looking at the numbers it seems like the GOP has an easier time influencing people when LGBT people and the movement are very visible, which doesn't seem terribly shocking to me at least because I'd imagine that's how it goes for most topics.

Do you think we all went underground or turned invisible for a few years after Hodges? Do you think the movement becoming a big part of the culture war and getting lots of media attention is a function of LGBT people waking up sometime in the 2010s and deciding to just go be insane in public? No— the right was in disarray after a big defeat and took some time to reorient, and at about the same time right wing media and the internal structure of the GOP were going through massive changes brought about by technological development and the political pressures of the Obama years. Their subsequent cultural counteroffensive has put us back in the crosshairs; this isn’t just an organic backlash because we’ve once again gotten too uppity and visible after being generously given gay marriage. You’ve just been parroting this same ridiculous line every few pages as if saying it again makes it make more sense— “the movement” did not mysteriously write itself a mountain of bad PR or put itself center-stage in the culture war, the far right has been doing that.

I think it was about 2017 when some conference of right wing Christian cooked up the bathroom predator myth to try and split the T off from the rest of the rainbow.

[Senkaku]

I think it was about 2017 when some conference of right wing Christian cooked up the bathroom predator myth to try and split the T off from the rest of the rainbow.

Yeah; they weren’t sure what to do for a couple years after suffering a massive defeat, and their party was also in turmoil, and the media landscape was shifting as social media exploded and diversified— and then they came back with a new strategy, a stronger and more multi-noded media apparatus, and a party with a much greater appetite for violent extremism. Suddenly, trans people are made the focal point of the culture war, and their queer allies get painted with the same groomer brush, while Log Cabin Republican types got to preen about being “the good ones” and get invited on right-wing podcasts to give the official tokenist seal of approval to the whole reactionary campaign. A few years later, and dupes like WRA are shaking their heads disapprovingly and going “well golly, if you all had just shut up after gay marriage and stopped being so groomer-y in public, maybe everything would be fine for you”— delusional!

[Washington Resistance Army]

Do you think we all went underground or turned invisible for a few years after Hodges?

To the majority of the voting public yes, the LGBT movement turned invisible for a few years after that, it stopped being talked about in most circles and that seemingly resulted in wider acceptance across the board.

Their subsequent cultural counteroffensive has put us back in the crosshairs; this isn’t just an organic backlash because we’ve once again gotten too uppity and visible after being generously given gay marriage.

Obviously yeah, I was just disagreeing with Nilokeras' point that LGBT folks not "being visible" makes it easier to hate them and roll back their rights, the numbers and evidence we have actually seems to indicate the exact opposite.

[Urkennalaid]

Do you think we all went underground or turned invisible for a few years after Hodges? Do you think the movement becoming a big part of the culture war and getting lots of media attention is a function of LGBT people waking up sometime in the 2010s and deciding to just go be insane in public? No— the right was in disarray after a big defeat and took some time to reorient, and at about the same time right wing media and the internal structure of the GOP were going through massive changes brought about by technological development and the political pressures of the Obama years. Their subsequent cultural counteroffensive has put us back in the crosshairs; this isn’t just an organic backlash because we’ve once again gotten too uppity and visible after being generously given gay marriage. You’ve just been parroting this same ridiculous line every few pages as if saying it again makes it make more sense— “the movement” did not mysteriously write itself a mountain of bad PR or put itself center-stage in the culture war, the far right has been doing that.

I think it was about 2017 when some conference of right wing Christian cooked up the bathroom predator myth to try and split the T off from the rest of the rainbow.

It's so funny seeing the same people who called gay people predators also trying to be like, "Well we are okay with the LGB just not the T!"

But then literally anytime there's a story where a gay couple is refused service they celebrate it. They're so open in their blatant purposeful hypocrisy and the fact people unironically believe it pisses me off.

[Bradfordville]

I think it was about 2017 when some conference of right wing Christian cooked up the bathroom predator myth to try and split the T off from the rest of the rainbow.

It's so funny seeing the same people who called gay people predators also trying to be like, "Well we are okay with the LGB just not the T!"

But then literally anytime there's a story where a gay couple is refused service they celebrate it. They're so open in their blatant purposeful hypocrisy and the fact people unironically believe it pisses me off.

When considering that millions of Americans quite literally believe in the whole "pray the gay away" mantra, it both calls into skepticism the claims of those who say "I'm not homophobic, but..." as well as the claim that the only reason there's so much homophobia in America is due to "the gay agenda going too far." There are millions of Americans who actually believe the creator of the entire universe has condemned the LGBT community. You're not gonna easily convince someone with those views to be cool with stuff like pride parades.

Then again, in a way the second claim could be right. I mean according to some folks, acknowledging that being gay is not a sin or a disease is "going too far."

[Senkaku]

Do you think we all went underground or turned invisible for a few years after Hodges?

To the majority of the voting public yes, the LGBT movement turned invisible for a few years after that, it stopped being talked about in most circles and that seemingly resulted in wider acceptance across the board.

This is not because we went underground or became invisible or because the movement stopped campaigning for gay and trans rights, stopped campaigning for better education, stopped campaigning to reduce suicides. It’s because the billion-dollar media operation that had spent decades fighting us had just taken a punch to the nose, and the right backed off for a moment because they realized they’d just backed themselves into a corner and lost the public. I also don’t think it’s even an accurate read of the public’s view; they were seeing more gay people on screen and living happily in public than they ever had before, the only difference was that Fox wasn’t screaming every night about the imminent destruction of the institution of marriage. It turns out seeing lots of LGBT people just being normal people in media and daily life, without a reactionary media apparatus constantly whispering in your ear that they’re evil, tends to improve favorabilities.

Their subsequent cultural counteroffensive has put us back in the crosshairs; this isn’t just an organic backlash because we’ve once again gotten too uppity and visible after being generously given gay marriage.

Obviously yeah, I was just disagreeing with Nilokeras' point that LGBT folks not "being visible" makes it easier to hate them and roll back their rights, the numbers and evidence we have actually seems to indicate the exact opposite.

LGBT folks were visible after Hodges, we were the most visible we’d ever been. There were huge Pride celebrations, we were getting represented more in media, we were getting married and bringing lawsuits for discrimination against businesses. The only difference was that we were briefly demoted from being the top target of far right media and politicians, because they weren’t sure how to respond to such a defeat and were worried they were going to dig themselves deeper with anything they tried— but make no mistake, they were furious and starting to plot how to roll it all back. The GOP’s subsequent civil war and the technological and business changes in the media sector have created the perfect environment for them to turn our existence back into a subject of cultural contention.

[Nilokeras]

And that's how the war of attrition turns back in their favour - public opinion is a lot easier to influence when LGBT people stop being visible and you ban all content in schools or universities that even mentions the existence of gender non-conformity or non-heterosexual identities.

I'm not really sure this is true actually. For a good few years after Hodges the LGBT movement stopped being a huge focal point in the culture war to most people and it kind of vanished from mainstream media for a while and during that time support for various things the movement espouses trended upwards pretty much non-stop amongst most all demographics. Polling wise at least there's only been reversals and declines since the movement became a big part of the culture war again and started getting lots of media attention once more. At least from looking at the numbers it seems like the GOP has an easier time influencing people when LGBT people and the movement are very visible, which doesn't seem terribly shocking to me at least because I'd imagine that's how it goes for most topics.

It's worth picking apart media visibility and personal visibility. Right now trans people are highly visible in the media, but that's because if you're a trans person and you stick your head above the parapet for any reason Fox News will make you the subject of an entire 48 hour media cycle. Post-gay marriage LGBT people were and are highly visible in peoples' daily lives - some 7% of Americans are LGBT and odds are most people know an LGBT person personally. The goal of things like DeSantis' 'don't say gay' bill and bans on 'drag' is to criminalize that personal visibility and decrease the dissonance between the media narrative and peoples' lived experiences.