Calls for violence against LGBTQ people intensify

[Arval Va]

Threatening suicide because you feel like you are in the wrong body and if you don’t get hormones and surgery done to fit in your supposed preferred body you will miserable. That statement right there, how does that not sound like a mental illness?

It's almost like being stuck in a body conflicting with your identity and being treated in a way conflicting with your identity can do serious mental harm. It's almost like transition is... treatment.

[Phobos Drilling and Manufacturing]

What I’m saying is that transgenderism should be studied as a psychological phenomenon. Gen Z identifying as transgender has literally doubled, how is that normal? Is there risk of social contagion?

I'm going to stop you right there, and ask that you read this.

How do we prevent misdiagnosis? I don’t think people under the age of 18 should get medical surgery such as gentital removal or top surgery,

As long as we're consistent... Can we ban circumcision until then too? Or "correction" (blech) of intersex genitals?

and you should be at least like 14 or 15 before getting hormones. How do we know if a kid is just going through a phase? What if a kid goes through an emotional phase, gets trans treatment, ruins their pubescent development, and kills themself, what then?

Again, how likely is this, compared to how many people get treatment and do not regret it? How likely is it compared to the people denied treatment that must deal with the ensuing crises?
At a point, it feels like we're doing more to assuage the paranoia of cis people than actually to help treat trans people...

There is not much research done on the side effects of puberty blockers and hormones, people will say it’s “completely reversible” I don’t think blocking somebodies psychological and physical development and changing the hormones out is completely “reversible.” You ever wonder why so many people who get puberty blockers act so childish? Because their brain quite literally skipped puberty, that’s not healthy.

Literally never heard that before in my life.

Why do people always assume I don’t support the other thing by the fact I didn’t mention it? Trans kids and transgender people committing suicide is also a problem, but for the reason of them getting bullied and discriminated, which is wrong and the laws being passed that discriminate against trans people are wrong, however I do not disagree nor agree with the laws being passed that universally ban trans treatment for minors.

Threatening suicide because you feel like you are in the wrong body and if you don’t get hormones and surgery done to fit in your supposed preferred body you will miserable. That statement right there, how does that not sound like a mental illness?

It does sound like a mental illness. That is dysphoria (notably not the same thing as simply being trans). You'll never guess what the treatment for dysphoria is...

Yeah, that is what I’m saying, gender dysphoria should be considered a mental illness, and like all people who have a mental condition, they should not be discriminated against and should be treated for their condition, with hormones and surgery and whatnot. I think trans surgery should ONLY be for people who have gender dysphoria.

But reeeee they took away the tomboys! Now all the Tom boys are non binary reeeeee /j

[Intaglio]

Conservatives have always been the heteronormative crusaders, so it's not really surprising that Republican led areas are leading in this. It mostly seems to be aimed at transgender people; understandable, since being gay has gained more social acceptance over the years, it's easier to go after trans people, who are fewer in number and still struggling with gaining acceptance and understanding. It's all part of the greater culture war they've been waging for the last few years, right there with things like book bans and the attempts to limit discussion of certain topics in education. It's all an attempt to control and shut down what they or their voters are displeased about or else just gain votes from those who displeased. I'm extremely worried about the consequences of it all.

[Ifreann]

Super cool to care more about the hypothetical possibility of a cis kid getting transition treatments they later regret and committing suicide than all the real trans kids committing suicide. Says it all really.

Why do people always assume I don’t support the other thing by the fact I didn’t mention it? Trans kids and transgender people committing suicide is also a problem, but for the reason of them getting bullied and discriminated, which is wrong and the laws being passed that discriminate against trans people are wrong, however I do not disagree nor agree with the laws being passed that universally ban trans treatment for minors.

When you're acting like being trans is a disease that we need to learn how to stop the spread of, you're not gonna have much luck pretending you're taking a sensible middle ground.

Threatening suicide because you feel like you are in the wrong body and if you don’t get hormones and surgery done to fit in your supposed preferred body you will miserable. That statement right there, how does that not sound like a mental illness?

The bit where it isn't happening. Trans suicide isn't a threat that they're following through on, it's a result of them not being able to stand being alive in a society that treats them like they're diseased and insane. Fucking obviously.

---

What I’m saying is that transgenderism should be studied as a psychological phenomenon. Gen Z identifying as transgender has literally doubled, how is that normal? Is there risk of social contagion?

I'm going to stop you right there, and ask that you read this.

How do we prevent misdiagnosis? I don’t think people under the age of 18 should get medical surgery such as gentital removal or top surgery,

As long as we're consistent... Can we ban circumcision until then too? Or "correction" (blech) of intersex genitals?

and you should be at least like 14 or 15 before getting hormones. How do we know if a kid is just going through a phase? What if a kid goes through an emotional phase, gets trans treatment, ruins their pubescent development, and kills themself, what then?

Again, how likely is this, compared to how many people get treatment and do not regret it? How likely is it compared to the people denied treatment that must deal with the ensuing crises?
At a point, it feels like we're doing more to assuage the paranoia of cis people than actually to help treat trans people...

There is not much research done on the side effects of puberty blockers and hormones, people will say it’s “completely reversible” I don’t think blocking somebodies psychological and physical development and changing the hormones out is completely “reversible.” You ever wonder why so many people who get puberty blockers act so childish? Because their brain quite literally skipped puberty, that’s not healthy.

Literally never heard that before in my life.

I will say that I am fascinated to hear first that there isn't enough research about the effects of puberty blockers and then second a confident assertion that adults who took puberty blockers all act so childish because their brain skipped puberty.

[Phobos Drilling and Manufacturing]

Why do people always assume I don’t support the other thing by the fact I didn’t mention it? Trans kids and transgender people committing suicide is also a problem, but for the reason of them getting bullied and discriminated, which is wrong and the laws being passed that discriminate against trans people are wrong, however I do not disagree nor agree with the laws being passed that universally ban trans treatment for minors.

When you're acting like being trans is a disease that we need to learn how to stop the spread of, you're not gonna have much luck pretending you're taking a sensible middle ground.

Threatening suicide because you feel like you are in the wrong body and if you don’t get hormones and surgery done to fit in your supposed preferred body you will miserable. That statement right there, how does that not sound like a mental illness?

The bit where it isn't happening. Trans suicide isn't a threat that they're following through on, it's a result of them not being able to stand being alive in a society that treats them like they're diseased and insane. Fucking obviously.

---

I'm going to stop you right there, and ask that you read this.

As long as we're consistent... Can we ban circumcision until then too? Or "correction" (blech) of intersex genitals?

Again, how likely is this, compared to how many people get treatment and do not regret it? How likely is it compared to the people denied treatment that must deal with the ensuing crises?
At a point, it feels like we're doing more to assuage the paranoia of cis people than actually to help treat trans people...

Literally never heard that before in my life.

I will say that I am fascinated to hear first that there isn't enough research about the effects of puberty blockers and then second a confident assertion that adults who took puberty blockers all act so childish because their brain skipped puberty.

Jesus, I’m not saying being trans is a disease.


All I am saying is that gender dysphoria is a mental condition, not anbnormal, just different, similar to high functioning autism (aspbergers), and should be treated with respect to those who have it. The only treatment is trans surgery and hormones. I just think that there isn’t enough conclusive research about gender dysphoria at the moment for me to be confident with minors having trans surgery.

[Neoncomplexultra]

generally speaking, to read this forum is to not desire to participate it.

however, here, i am tempted against my better judgement to say that, in my country, the dialectics about class war or class struggle, do not coincide with the dialectics about transgender surgeries for adolescents.

it is this way in most of the world.

i invite you to consider the reasons for which these two dialectics form an ideological cluster in your local culture, where they do not form such a cluster in the other many cultures in the world.

[Phobos Drilling and Manufacturing]

generally speaking, to read this forum is to not desire to participate it.

however, here, i am tempted against my better judgement to say that, in my country, the dialectics about class war or class struggle, do not coincide with the dialectics about transgender surgeries for adolescents.

it is this way in most of the world.

i invite you to consider the reasons for which these two dialectics form an ideological cluster in your local culture, where they do not form such a cluster in the other many cultures in the world.

I think the whole progressivism and conservative being tied to left wing and right wing economics is a purely American, or a least western problem. The problem is that when someone is economically left wing in America, everyone assume they are also culturally progressive, and if someone is economically right wing, everyone assumes they are culturally conservative.

Progressive capitalists and Conservative socialists are the most underrepresented people in American politics by far.

[The Astral Mandate]

Progressive capitalists and Conservative socialists are the most underrepresented people in American politics by far.

I disagree. Due to the history of the United States (and by that I mean the Cold War), socialists of all stripes tend to see little representation. Progressive capitalists? Don't you basically mean mainstream liberals?

[Nilokeras]

ITT:

'It's quite frankly alarming that the number of left-handed children has spiked by over 200% since we stopped beating children for writing with their left hand. How do we know there isn't some social contagion effect going on? Or worse, radical pro-leftist doctors promoting left-handedness among our children? Just for asking these questions we get treated with such hostility by pro-left handed activists.

I think we need to commission Fahran to host a debate on civility in discourse around left-handed issues featuring John Smith from the Please Stop Breaking Our Wrists Alliance for Left Handed Children and Magda 'The Toddler Crusher' von Hammersmeck to sort this issue out."

[Valles Marineris Mining co]

Progressive capitalists and Conservative socialists are the most underrepresented people in American politics by far.

I disagree. Due to the history of the United States (and by that I mean the Cold War), socialists of all stripes tend to see little representation. Progressive capitalists? Don't you basically mean mainstream liberals?

I mean progressive libertarians

[Aggicificicerous]

generally speaking, to read this forum is to not desire to participate it.

however, here, i am tempted against my better judgement to say that, in my country, the dialectics about class war or class struggle, do not coincide with the dialectics about transgender surgeries for adolescents.

it is this way in most of the world.

i invite you to consider the reasons for which these two dialectics form an ideological cluster in your local culture, where they do not form such a cluster in the other many cultures in the world.

One of the things I've really started considering recently is how obsessed people are with surgery. Take a thread with a fairly innocuous theme, like increasing violence against LGBTQ people. Or heck, a slightly more nocuous theme like increasing violence against trans people, which is what discussion on LGBTQ people always devolves into. How many people are going to barge in on that thread and talk solely about 'the surgery' on adolescents, like it's the big issue of the day that's being forced onto society. No mention that surgery is a single optional part of transition that many trans people don't get for a variety of reasons, no mention that increasing violence is tied at most to a false perception around surgery. It's just 'surgery on kids=bad, ergo trans=bad.'

All this ties into my homegrown theory on how transphobia propagates because people are obsessed with dicks, but that's another tangent.

[Birdova]

KILL THEM ALL

[Nilokeras]

Women are generally given more latitude to deviate from heteronormativity than men. This is part of why gay men and trans-women, who are interpreted by transphobes as men, tend to elicit more negative responses than lesbian women or trans-men. Women who are perceived as less feminine have had the benefit of such behaviors being normalized or at least attacked less incessantly.

What does strike me as interesting is that we’re largely discussing violence in the maintenance of individual and group masculine and heterosexual identity in a lot of these murders or assaults.

Women, including bi and lesbian women, are objects of sexual desire for men and thus subject to different kinds of violence from men - as I already noted, primarily sexual violence. Between women there is also policing of heteronormativity: talk to any AFAB non binary person or even slightly butch/tomboyish woman about the kinds of bullying they received in high school and how it is a mirror image of male violence towards gay/bi men. It's the same underlying force: a violent reaction towards the possibility of an unwanted sexual desire from the non-straight person.

[Armeattla]

Women are generally given more latitude to deviate from heteronormativity than men. This is part of why gay men and trans-women, who are interpreted by transphobes as men, tend to elicit more negative responses than lesbian women or trans-men. Women who are perceived as less feminine have had the benefit of such behaviors being normalized or at least attacked less incessantly.

What does strike me as interesting is that we’re largely discussing violence in the maintenance of individual and group masculine and heterosexual identity in a lot of these murders or assaults.

Women, including bi and lesbian women, are objects of sexual desire for men and thus subject to different kinds of violence from men - as I already noted, primarily sexual violence. Between women there is also policing of heteronormativity: talk to any AFAB non binary person or even slightly butch/tomboyish woman about the kinds of bullying they received in high school and how it is a mirror image of male violence towards gay/bi men. It's the same underlying force: a violent reaction towards the possibility of an unwanted sexual desire from the non-straight person.

Not to mention that both are being incredibly infantilized in the process - being treated as without any agency or self-awareness and hence need to be controlled. The "Lost Lesbian" and "Indoctrinated foolish girl" narrative by transphobes about trans men and transmasc non-binary people is evident of this.
Another point also being corrective rape targetted at transmasculine people - usually being done straight cisgender women.

[Page]

Super cool to care more about the hypothetical possibility of a cis kid getting transition treatments they later regret and committing suicide than all the real trans kids committing suicide. Says it all really.

Why do people always assume I don’t support the other thing by the fact I didn’t mention it? Trans kids and transgender people committing suicide is also a problem, but for the reason of them getting bullied and discriminated, which is wrong and the laws being passed that discriminate against trans people are wrong, however I do not disagree nor agree with the laws being passed that universally ban trans treatment for minors.

Threatening suicide because you feel like you are in the wrong body and if you don’t get hormones and surgery done to fit in your supposed preferred body you will miserable. That statement right there, how does that not sound like a mental illness?

Feeling suicidal indicates mental illness in the same way feeling physical pain indicates physical illness, but your trap is painfully obvious.

Are trans people mentally ill? If no, then they don't need any treatment and don't need to transition. If yes, then they're not mentally competent to make decisions about their treatment. Either way, you get to deny them the right to transition.

Obvious trap is obvious.

[Soviet Haaregrad]

KILL THEM ALL

An ideal solution for homophobes.

[Neu California]

Department of Homeland Security warns about increase in anti-LGBTQ+ violence

[Vassenor]

generally speaking, to read this forum is to not desire to participate it.

however, here, i am tempted against my better judgement to say that, in my country, the dialectics about class war or class struggle, do not coincide with the dialectics about transgender surgeries for adolescents.

it is this way in most of the world.

i invite you to consider the reasons for which these two dialectics form an ideological cluster in your local culture, where they do not form such a cluster in the other many cultures in the world.

One of the things I've really started considering recently is how obsessed people are with surgery. Take a thread with a fairly innocuous theme, like increasing violence against LGBTQ people. Or heck, a slightly more nocuous theme like increasing violence against trans people, which is what discussion on LGBTQ people always devolves into. How many people are going to barge in on that thread and talk solely about 'the surgery' on adolescents, like it's the big issue of the day that's being forced onto society. No mention that surgery is a single optional part of transition that many trans people don't get for a variety of reasons, no mention that increasing violence is tied at most to a false perception around surgery. It's just 'surgery on kids=bad, ergo trans=bad.'

All this ties into my homegrown theory on how transphobia propagates because people are obsessed with dicks, but that's another tangent.

I’ve literally had people tell me that violence in general and bathroom policing in particular is justified because we keep “transing kids”.

[Dreria]

Women are generally given more latitude to deviate from heteronormativity than men. This is part of why gay men and trans-women, who are interpreted by transphobes as men, tend to elicit more negative responses than lesbian women or trans-men. Women who are perceived as less feminine have had the benefit of such behaviors being normalized or at least attacked less incessantly.

What does strike me as interesting is that we’re largely discussing violence in the maintenance of individual and group masculine and heterosexual identity in a lot of these murders or assaults.

Women, including bi and lesbian women, are objects of sexual desire for men and thus subject to different kinds of violence from men - as I already noted, primarily sexual violence. Between women there is also policing of heteronormativity: talk to any AFAB non binary person or even slightly butch/tomboyish woman about the kinds of bullying they received in high school and how it is a mirror image of male violence towards gay/bi men. It's the same underlying force: a violent reaction towards the possibility of an unwanted sexual desire from the non-straight person.

lesbian women also bully straight women alot though I read about it happening in the WNBA

[Rary]

KILL THEM ALL

An ideal solution for homophobes.

Neither one of you should be advocating for violence.

[Ifreann]

When you're acting like being trans is a disease that we need to learn how to stop the spread of, you're not gonna have much luck pretending you're taking a sensible middle ground.


The bit where it isn't happening. Trans suicide isn't a threat that they're following through on, it's a result of them not being able to stand being alive in a society that treats them like they're diseased and insane. Fucking obviously.

---

I will say that I am fascinated to hear first that there isn't enough research about the effects of puberty blockers and then second a confident assertion that adults who took puberty blockers all act so childish because their brain skipped puberty.

Jesus, I’m not saying being trans is a disease.

Is there risk of social contagion? How do we prevent misdiagnosis?

"I'm not saying it's a disease, I'm just worried about it spreading like a disease and about how doctors will diagnose it"

All I am saying is that gender dysphoria is a mental condition, not anbnormal, just different, similar to high functioning autism (aspbergers), and should be treated with respect to those who have it. The only treatment is trans surgery and hormones. I just think that there isn’t enough conclusive research about gender dysphoria at the moment for me to be confident with minors having trans surgery.

If you're saying that gender dysphoria can be treated then it's not really like Autism at all. What you're saying, though trying very hard not to say too directly, is that trans people are mentally ill, but that you will graciously allow them to be treated for this mental illness if they jump through enough hoops.

[Terminus Station]

So at what point do we send in federal agents and arrest these terrorists?

[Neoncomplexultra]

I disagree. Due to the history of the United States (and by that I mean the Cold War), socialists of all stripes tend to see little representation. Progressive capitalists? Don't you basically mean mainstream liberals?

if i understand this correctly, self-proclaimed socialist Bernie Sanders won the popular vote in the 2016 primary election, but was not made the leftist candidate for reasons other than popular support.

if you say here that you have noticed just now, that the policy of the government does not reflect the desires of the governed peoples - this is part of the definition of government, so it is good if you have noticed this just now.

however, if that was correct, then this is a significant example of the ideological clustering referred to. so, you have mistaken the question of ideological clustering for another question about the popular-representative nature theory of government, which contradicts the basic nature of government that it is self-representing.

[Neoncomplexultra]

I think the whole progressivism and conservative being tied to left wing and right wing economics is a purely American, or a least western problem. The problem is that when someone is economically left wing in America, everyone assume they are also culturally progressive, and if someone is economically right wing, everyone assumes they are culturally conservative.

why is this the case? what has caused this situation? it does not seem rationally necessary for these ideologies to be clustered.

[Floofybit]

KILL THEM ALL

An ideal solution for homophobes.

An ideal solution for no one who hasn't killed another