US Balkanisation - Is it time?

[Ethel mermania]

I get the news from America can seem scary to all of you foreigners, but the United States is nowhere near the verge of collapse. I live in a red state, Tennessee, one that you always see on the news. Yet, I struggle to think of one way that partisan politics in my state has made my life worse in a significant way. If you knew nothing about Tennessee and traveled there at two times years apart the only differences you could see would be attributed to the passage of time, not partisanship.

But it's not just how you are doing, but others living in your state too. Can the same be said of the people the GOP has persecuted? Can a transgender person living in Tennessee honestly say the partisanship of the state hasn't negatively impacted their lives?

If they live anywhere near pigeon forge I would say they are doing pretty damm good.

[American Legionaries]

To be fair, the idea of armed conflict with Massachusetts does sound like fun...

Just because they don't know how to drive is no reason to blow them up.

Poor driving is the best casus belli in the modern age. Forget all that "state sponsor of terrorism" bullshit, we need a war on highway douchebaggery.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

(Image)

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Ever since the Obama administration the United States has become increasingly more polarised between the Democrat and Republican party to the point very few politicians, even its own populace, have an overlap in beliefs.

Talks of civil war, or the 'Boogaloo' are almost regular conversation among certain groups.

Needless to say, people do not like the federal government unless a politician of their liking is in power. The Trump and Biden administrations have only proven this further. Laws signed by both presidents have been hugely unpopular in red and blue states. Trump's travel bans, transgender military exclusions and Bidens Respect for Marriage Act are two examples of this.

It is safe to say that at any given time at least 50% of the country does not like the federal government.

So why have a federal government? To an outsider looking in, all i can see is a politically stagnant nation held back by a deeply divided congress that relies on a party majority to accomplish anything. Any so called 'Bipartisan' bills are normally very lopsided when it comes to votes. I used to be against the idea of a national divorce, now i'm thinking that batshit crazy Marjorie Taylor Greene might have a point as much as that hurts to say.

Would it not be better for each individual state to have complete self determination, NS?

One and Indivisible.

[Ethel mermania]

Just because they don't know how to drive is no reason to blow them up.

Poor driving is the best casus belli in the modern age. Forget all that "state sponsor of terrorism" bullshit, we need a war on highway douchebaggery.

We attack Maryland at dawn.

[Duncaq]

Oh ok. Obama started the hate and the US is better off as 50 countries which will magically start working together.

Why is it NSG has a thing for Civil War 2.0?

actually, i was radicalized by biden.

Isn't that akin to being radicalized by a damp sheep? Or radicalized by Liz Truss?! I mean, I can't think of anyone *less* radical than Joe Biden

[American Legionaries]

(Image)

---

Ever since the Obama administration the United States has become increasingly more polarised between the Democrat and Republican party to the point very few politicians, even its own populace, have an overlap in beliefs.

Talks of civil war, or the 'Boogaloo' are almost regular conversation among certain groups.

Needless to say, people do not like the federal government unless a politician of their liking is in power. The Trump and Biden administrations have only proven this further. Laws signed by both presidents have been hugely unpopular in red and blue states. Trump's travel bans, transgender military exclusions and Bidens Respect for Marriage Act are two examples of this.

It is safe to say that at any given time at least 50% of the country does not like the federal government.

So why have a federal government? To an outsider looking in, all i can see is a politically stagnant nation held back by a deeply divided congress that relies on a party majority to accomplish anything. Any so called 'Bipartisan' bills are normally very lopsided when it comes to votes. I used to be against the idea of a national divorce, now i'm thinking that batshit crazy Marjorie Taylor Greene might have a point as much as that hurts to say.

Would it not be better for each individual state to have complete self determination, NS?

One and Indivisible.

The indivisible part is quite clearly a fairy tale.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

One and Indivisible.

The indivisible part is quite clearly a fairy tale.

Sorry Legionaries, but I have wonderful people- very wonderful and talented people by the way- who work for me, and they all say that what you're saying is bogus. It's a hoax, folks! America is one nation and cannot be divided. My father told me that and it still rings true even today. That says all you need to know.

[Lodhs beard]

Just imagine the chaos, if there was any 'balkanisation'/national divorce of the US: the dangers of the world's largest nuclear arsenal being divided up, and a few warheads being "Lost in transit" alone would be catastrophic. Then there come all the other logistical issues: How would the national debt be divided between states? By population? By GDP? By the amount each is estimated to have contributed to the national debt? Or maybe a default, and the collapse of the world's financial systems?

Even if the merits of American Balkanisation outweigh the downsides (which I do not believe), the logistics of dividing the assets (and liabilities) of the world's most advanced military and largest economy amongst constituent states is such a gargantuan task that in practice, any effort to bring about a national divorce would lead to secondary consequences of such magnitude that we come to the conclusion: The only thing worse than the United States remaining united, is the United States being divided.

[Neu California]

This is hardly new. Remember the old Jesus land map based on the results of the 2004 election?

[American Legionaries]

The indivisible part is quite clearly a fairy tale.

Sorry Legionaries, but I have wonderful people- very wonderful and talented people by the way- who work for me, and they all say that what you're saying is bogus. It's a hoax, folks! America is one nation and cannot be divided. My father told me that and it still rings true even today. That says all you need to know.

It most certainly does.

[Cannot think of a name]

Oh sweetums...is this when you tuned in?

I was 12, so I guess

Puppers! Okay, well...history didn't start with puberty, so we have some reading for you to catch up. First, let's tell you 'bout a man named Newt and his terrible plan.

Or a man named Norquist.

Or just catch up on things like the Civil Rights Movement.

Short version, you're decades off.

[Bradfordville]

I was 12, so I guess

Puppers! Okay, well...history didn't start with puberty, so we have some reading for you to catch up. First, let's tell you 'bout a man named Newt and his terrible plan.

Or a man named Norquist.

Or just catch up on things like the Civil Rights Movement.

Short version, you're decades off.

I love when people say "our country isn't as united as it used to be" and I have to remind them of that time when people of different skin colors couldn't even drink from the same water fountain. The United States of America has pretty much never actually been united at heart. If it was, we wouldn't have had that incident that occurred between 1860 and 1865.

[Bahrimontagn]

The rest of the world can only hope for the collapse of the United States

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

Sorry Legionaries, but I have wonderful people- very wonderful and talented people by the way- who work for me, and they all say that what you're saying is bogus. It's a hoax, folks! America is one nation and cannot be divided. My father told me that and it still rings true even today. That says all you need to know.

It most certainly does.

Wrong.

[Cannot think of a name]

Puppers! Okay, well...history didn't start with puberty, so we have some reading for you to catch up. First, let's tell you 'bout a man named Newt and his terrible plan.

Or a man named Norquist.

Or just catch up on things like the Civil Rights Movement.

Short version, you're decades off.

I love when people say "our country isn't as united as it used to be" and I have to remind them of that time when people of different skin colors couldn't even drink from the same water fountain. The United States of America has pretty much never actually been united at heart. If it was, we wouldn't have had that incident that occurred between 1860 and 1865.

Well, during that period where people couldn't drink from the same fountains or eat at the same stores, we went hard on hegemony mythologizing the war effort into a united America with picket fences, chickens in pots, and two cars in every garage since people stopped blowing up the things we made thus creating a built in need for replacements. So people can think back to this time of harmony that existed only in ad copy.

[Bombadil]

The indivisible part is quite clearly a fairy tale.

Well people are making political hay out of telling people that it's not indivisible, that people are out to destroy the country, tell their audiences that they need to buy guns and hole up in their homes because [insert political enemy of the day] are coming to get them.

Happy Mothers Day to ALL, in particular the Mothers, Wives and Lovers of the Radical Left, Fascists, Marxists and Communists who are doing everything in their power to destroy and obliterate our once great country. Please make these complete lunatics and maniacs kinder, gentler, softer and, most importantly, smarter so that we can, quickly, MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

Lovely.

Because polarized media diets contribute to partisan conflict, our quantitative analysis identified terms indicating antipathy or resentment, such as “dislike,” “despise,” “can’t stand” and “hate.”

We expected to find that both of the strongly ideological networks made use of such words, perhaps in different ways. Instead, we found that Fox used antipathy words five times more often than MSNBC. “Hate” really stood out: It appeared 647 times on Fox, compared to 118 on MSNBC.

Fox usually pairs certain words alongside “hate.” The most notable was “they” – as in, “they hate.” Fox used this phrase 101 times between January and May. MSNBC used it just five times.

Link

So if you really feel America is completely divided, maybe wonder as to the propaganda you're being fed and who you're listening to.

[American Legionaries]

The indivisible part is quite clearly a fairy tale.

Well people are making political hay out of telling people that it's not indivisible, that people are out to destroy the country, tell their audiences that they need to buy guns and hole up in their homes because [insert political enemy of the day] are coming to get them.

Happy Mothers Day to ALL, in particular the Mothers, Wives and Lovers of the Radical Left, Fascists, Marxists and Communists who are doing everything in their power to destroy and obliterate our once great country. Please make these complete lunatics and maniacs kinder, gentler, softer and, most importantly, smarter so that we can, quickly, MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

Lovely.

Because polarized media diets contribute to partisan conflict, our quantitative analysis identified terms indicating antipathy or resentment, such as “dislike,” “despise,” “can’t stand” and “hate.”

We expected to find that both of the strongly ideological networks made use of such words, perhaps in different ways. Instead, we found that Fox used antipathy words five times more often than MSNBC. “Hate” really stood out: It appeared 647 times on Fox, compared to 118 on MSNBC.

Fox usually pairs certain words alongside “hate.” The most notable was “they” – as in, “they hate.” Fox used this phrase 101 times between January and May. MSNBC used it just five times.

Link

So if you really feel America is completely divided, maybe wonder as to the propaganda you're being fed and who you're listening to.

I'm listening to the legislature.

[Southland]

Isn't this like the third thread on this this year?

In my honest opinion, the U.S. is going to fracture if it keeps going on its current trajectory, but it won't happen anytime soon. If it does happen, it'll most likely occur somewhere in the 2040s.

Oh and yes, practically every state would be screwed if the U.S. fractures, so it's not something to salivate over.

[Hammer Britannia]

Because the thing the minorities of the South need is for extremist Republicans to be given unrestricted control over them. Just how the rural conservatives and homeless people of the west coast need extremist Democrats, Native Americans in the Great Plains need... I think y'all get the point. Not to mention the fact most states are not economically viable. Most states receive more from congress than they give, and the majority of states (Midwestern/Mountain states) would inevitably be forced into unions with other states as they simply do not have the infrastructure or geography to facilitate large-scale foreign trade. And this is important because the US exports a lot of food. Millions could starve both within the ex-country as competing interests and geography fucks over interior states and trade wars fuck over entire countries as many import upwards of a fourth of their food with the United States (Japan, a country of 100 million, imports 25%).

Americans are much, much better off with an America and the only people who would benefit from Balkanization (within the US) are people like Newsom and De Santis. Who, surprisingly, are politicians - not regular people.

I usually don't go on NSG, but this rhetoric really, really annoys me as someone who knows more about logistics than your average HOI4ologist.

[Morozistan]

If this happened similar states would most likely form coalitions with others, such as the South, New England, the Cascadia region, etc. I doubt every state would stay independent for long.

[The Greater sussian reich]

theres likely not gonna be a "boogaloo" most likely scenario is the constitution being ditched for one that gives the states a bit more power

[Rary]

No.

[Kernen]

To be fair, the idea of armed conflict with Massachusetts does sound like fun...

Just because they don't know how to drive is no reason to blow them up.

An acceptable reason to blow them up is "they are Massachusetts."

Arbitrary hatred is tons of fun.

[The Grand Fifth Imperium]

Balkanization... is it time?
No.
Would it be a good idea?
No.
Should we eat chicken sandwiches?
N–Yes!

Anyways, the whole idea of breaking apart the US is ludicrous. To take a quote from NS Elects the POTUS: "Liberty and Union, now and forever, one and inseparable!—Daniel Webster, Senator of Massachusetts.

[El Lazaro]

actually, i was radicalized by biden.

Isn't that akin to being radicalized by a damp sheep? Or radicalized by Liz Truss?! I mean, I can't think of anyone *less* radical than Joe Biden

I mean, I’m pretty sure Liz Truss has radicalized some people, just not intentionally. The Tories and Labour have since shifted strongly to the right relative to where they were before the Truss disaster, and there seems to be a growing number who see both parties as unacceptable as shown by third party polling and the local elections.