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The Fallacy of Centrism

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What do you identify as?

Far Left (Progressive, Marxist, etc.)
47
23%
Left (Democratic, cares about human rights, etc.)
71
35%
Right (Opposite of left)
36
18%
Far Right (Regressive, Republican, etc.)
48
24%
 
Total votes : 202

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Sultanate of Turkey
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 47
Founded: Feb 12, 2023
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Sultanate of Turkey » Mon May 15, 2023 8:06 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Sultanate of Turkey wrote:I meant to state that 1 percent label themselves as things other than straight or homosexual. Not labels in general.

As long as that makes sense to you…

What are your opinions on the topic?

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Incelastan
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 413
Founded: Nov 02, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Incelastan » Mon May 15, 2023 8:09 pm

Communism in theory is an interesting concept, but I prefer Distributism myself.
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Necroghastia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9628
Founded: May 11, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Mon May 15, 2023 8:11 pm

Sultanate of Turkey wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:You think only this 1% care about labels? You’ve apparently never seen a straight dude react to being called “gay.”

I meant to state that 1 percent label themselves as things other than straight or homosexual. Not labels in general.

This 2021 survey has an average of 7% globally.
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Sultanate of Turkey
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 47
Founded: Feb 12, 2023
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Sultanate of Turkey » Mon May 15, 2023 8:17 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Sultanate of Turkey wrote:I meant to state that 1 percent label themselves as things other than straight or homosexual. Not labels in general.

This 2021 survey has an average of 7% globally.

Across 27 countries.

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Necroghastia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9628
Founded: May 11, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Mon May 15, 2023 8:20 pm

Sultanate of Turkey wrote:

Across 27 countries.

Hey, at least it's something. Where are you getting your 1% number from?
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Frisemark
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 165
Founded: Aug 07, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Frisemark » Mon May 15, 2023 8:25 pm

Centrism is a practice. It is not a position. There is no singular "centrist" position they all agree on, unlike the bullet points most ideological sub-sects can be written off as.

This poll is also hilariously bad faith. Characterizing everyone who disagrees with your exact positions as authoritarian neophytes or cryptofascistic coffin-risers is...not exactly what I imagine anyone should do. But, hey, just me.
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Picairn
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Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Mon May 15, 2023 8:27 pm

Sultanate of Turkey wrote:

Across 27 countries.

27 countries across all continents of the world (except Antarctica), which is representative enough. Where are you getting your numbers from?
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Alcala-Cordel
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Posts: 4151
Founded: Dec 16, 2019
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Alcala-Cordel » Mon May 15, 2023 10:31 pm

Broadly speaking, I would define "the right" as any ideology that aims to support or preserve some form of hierarchy. Pretty much everyone I know who self-describes as a centrist falls under that umbrella.
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EuroStralia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 585
Founded: Feb 28, 2023
Anarchy

Postby EuroStralia » Mon May 15, 2023 10:32 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:Broadly speaking, I would define "the right" as any ideology that aims to support or preserve some form of hierarchy. Pretty much everyone I know who self-describes as a centrist falls under that umbrella.

Cetrain leftist ideologies also favor a hierarchical systems.
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Alcala-Cordel
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Posts: 4151
Founded: Dec 16, 2019
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Alcala-Cordel » Mon May 15, 2023 10:34 pm

EuroStralia wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:Broadly speaking, I would define "the right" as any ideology that aims to support or preserve some form of hierarchy. Pretty much everyone I know who self-describes as a centrist falls under that umbrella.

Cetrain leftist ideologies also favor a hierarchical systems.

I would say that ideologies that aim to significantly reduce hierarchies might be a little to the left.
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EuroStralia
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Posts: 585
Founded: Feb 28, 2023
Anarchy

Postby EuroStralia » Mon May 15, 2023 10:37 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
EuroStralia wrote:Cetrain leftist ideologies also favor a hierarchical systems.

I would say that ideologies that aim to significantly reduce hierarchies might be a little to the left.

Yes, but saying right tries to uphold hierarchies and that the left is against them ignores the right wing ideoligies that don't support hierarchies and left wing ideologies that do.
Just your average American Christian conservative.
RFK jr 2024. Trump 2024
When the antichrist comes, he will come in the name of peace.
Union of States of America wrote:now, whenever I read a post by EuroStralia, I for some strange reaon hear it in Tucker Carlson's voice. :eyebrow:

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Greater Qwerty
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: Jan 12, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Greater Qwerty » Mon May 15, 2023 10:40 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
EuroStralia wrote:Cetrain leftist ideologies also favor a hierarchical systems.

I would say that ideologies that aim to significantly reduce hierarchies might be a little to the left.

Who’s trying to reduce the tax system?

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Alcala-Cordel
Senator
 
Posts: 4151
Founded: Dec 16, 2019
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Alcala-Cordel » Mon May 15, 2023 10:43 pm

Greater Qwerty wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:I would say that ideologies that aim to significantly reduce hierarchies might be a little to the left.

Who’s trying to reduce the tax system?

Sometimes the same people who support the police, military, and the wealthy.
The Mediterranean salamander preserve of Alcala-Cordel

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Eleanor Turner
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 9
Founded: May 01, 2023
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Eleanor Turner » Mon May 15, 2023 10:44 pm

I think Centrism is a political philosophy that seeks a middle ground between opposing views. While some centrists may hold conservative views, it is not accurate to say that centrism is inherently conservative.

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EuroStralia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 585
Founded: Feb 28, 2023
Anarchy

Postby EuroStralia » Mon May 15, 2023 10:45 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
Greater Qwerty wrote:Who’s trying to reduce the tax system?

Sometimes the same people who support the police, military, and the wealthy.

That proves nothing, cutting taxes helps all people, not just the wealthy.
Just your average American Christian conservative.
RFK jr 2024. Trump 2024
When the antichrist comes, he will come in the name of peace.
Union of States of America wrote:now, whenever I read a post by EuroStralia, I for some strange reaon hear it in Tucker Carlson's voice. :eyebrow:

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Greater Qwerty
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: Jan 12, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Greater Qwerty » Mon May 15, 2023 10:46 pm

EuroStralia wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:Sometimes the same people who support the police, military, and the wealthy.

That proves nothing, cutting taxes helps all people, not just the wealthy.

Tell me more. I disagree, but I want to see where you’re coming from.

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Alcala-Cordel
Senator
 
Posts: 4151
Founded: Dec 16, 2019
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Alcala-Cordel » Mon May 15, 2023 10:48 pm

EuroStralia wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:Sometimes the same people who support the police, military, and the wealthy.

That proves nothing, cutting taxes helps all people, not just the wealthy.

Sometimes, but not necessarily. Supporting tax cuts for the wealthy can also be considered a reinforcement of hierarchy.
The Mediterranean salamander preserve of Alcala-Cordel

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EuroStralia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 585
Founded: Feb 28, 2023
Anarchy

Postby EuroStralia » Mon May 15, 2023 10:48 pm

Greater Qwerty wrote:
EuroStralia wrote:That proves nothing, cutting taxes helps all people, not just the wealthy.

Tell me more. I disagree, but I want to see where you’re coming from.

Paying less taxes means people have more money when they are done paying them.
Just your average American Christian conservative.
RFK jr 2024. Trump 2024
When the antichrist comes, he will come in the name of peace.
Union of States of America wrote:now, whenever I read a post by EuroStralia, I for some strange reaon hear it in Tucker Carlson's voice. :eyebrow:

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Northern Socialist Council Republics
Minister
 
Posts: 3109
Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Mon May 15, 2023 10:55 pm

Literally 5 minutes of research will uncover the fact that the countries with the highest rates of taxation also happen to be the same countries with the highest standards of living and lowest social inequality.
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Greater Qwerty
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: Jan 12, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Greater Qwerty » Mon May 15, 2023 10:55 pm

EuroStralia wrote:
Greater Qwerty wrote:Tell me more. I disagree, but I want to see where you’re coming from.

Paying less taxes means people have more money when they are done paying them.

But the more money can’t come out of nowhere. What do you cut when you lower taxes?

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EuroStralia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 585
Founded: Feb 28, 2023
Anarchy

Postby EuroStralia » Mon May 15, 2023 10:57 pm

Greater Qwerty wrote:
EuroStralia wrote:Paying less taxes means people have more money when they are done paying them.

But the more money can’t come out of nowhere. What do you cut when you lower taxes?

There are still ways people can make money, tax cuts also help reduce inflation.
Last edited by EuroStralia on Mon May 15, 2023 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Just your average American Christian conservative.
RFK jr 2024. Trump 2024
When the antichrist comes, he will come in the name of peace.
Union of States of America wrote:now, whenever I read a post by EuroStralia, I for some strange reaon hear it in Tucker Carlson's voice. :eyebrow:

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Greater Qwerty
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: Jan 12, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Greater Qwerty » Mon May 15, 2023 10:58 pm

EuroStralia wrote:
Greater Qwerty wrote:But the more money can’t come out of nowhere. What do you cut when you lower taxes?

Get a job then.

No, the government is the one who lowers taxes. However, taxes are a source of money for the government, and the government uses up all of its money. When there’s not enough money to go around, something has to be cut, the government cannot just get a job.

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EuroStralia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 585
Founded: Feb 28, 2023
Anarchy

Postby EuroStralia » Mon May 15, 2023 11:00 pm

Greater Qwerty wrote:
EuroStralia wrote:Get a job then.

No, the government is the one who lowers taxes. However, taxes are a source of money for the government, and the government uses up all of its money. When there’s not enough money to go around, something has to be cut, the government cannot just get a job.

I edited the post.
Just your average American Christian conservative.
RFK jr 2024. Trump 2024
When the antichrist comes, he will come in the name of peace.
Union of States of America wrote:now, whenever I read a post by EuroStralia, I for some strange reaon hear it in Tucker Carlson's voice. :eyebrow:

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Picairn
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8767
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Mon May 15, 2023 11:00 pm

Libertarian ideologies that seek to replace taxation and public services with private corporations are essentially devolving the state into de facto feudalism where each corporation carves out its private domain and monopolizes the service(s) it provides, without any accountability.
Last edited by Picairn on Mon May 15, 2023 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Picairn's Ministry of Foreign Relations
Minister: Edward H. Cornell
WA Ambassador: John M. Terry (Active)
Factbook | Constitution | Newspaper
Albrenia wrote:With great power comes great mockability.

Proctopeo wrote:I'm completely right and you know it.

Moralityland wrote:big corporations allied with the communist elite
Social democrat, passionate political observer, and naval warfare enthusiast.
Listen here Jack, we're going to destroy malarkey.
♔ The Empire of Picairn ♔
-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-—————————-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-
Civility - Transparency - Consistency

User avatar
EuroStralia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 585
Founded: Feb 28, 2023
Anarchy

Postby EuroStralia » Mon May 15, 2023 11:01 pm

Picairn wrote:Libertarian ideologies that seek to replace taxation and public services with private corporations are essentially devolving the state into de facto feudalism where each corporation carves out its private domain and monopolizes the service(s) it provides, without any accountability.

Didn't know libertarians wanted to bring back serfdom.
Last edited by EuroStralia on Mon May 15, 2023 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just your average American Christian conservative.
RFK jr 2024. Trump 2024
When the antichrist comes, he will come in the name of peace.
Union of States of America wrote:now, whenever I read a post by EuroStralia, I for some strange reaon hear it in Tucker Carlson's voice. :eyebrow:

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