The Fallacy of Centrism

[Random small European state]

So to summarize, a cenrist is a neoliberal. Or, in other words, a right-winger.

Centrists will always be right of someone, and they’ll always be left of someone as well, it really just depends on your point of view. But I guess in a sense you are right. (Well, you’re obviously left, but like, correct). Neoliberalism is the current status quo, and is basically the in-between of social liberalism and neoconservativism. It is capitalist, therefore it is right-wing. If you were to put it on the political compass, it would fall within the upper-right quadrant. But centrists aren’t nearly as rightist as mainstream neoconservatives, but the are more right than mainstream social liberals. It really depends on perspective, or the Overton window.

[Juansonia]

Do terrorists not deserve rights. I mean, if it's so obvious that a person is a terrorist needing execution, what harm is doing a trial?

Why don’t we have trials before shooting at enemy soldiers then?

Shooting at enemy soldiers is never to "punish" them, it's to stop them from interfering with tactical/strategic objectives. The soldiers don't deserve death, death simply happens to be the most effective way to neutralise the danger which enemy combatants pose.

Once an enemy surrenders, or is so severely incapacitated as to be incapable of fighting, the military has a duty to not kill them and to ensure that, especially if captured, they are kept in humane conditions. You can't just line up POWs against the wall without breaking international law. Any punishment of POWs requires a right to a trial.

edit: If you turly believe that every terrorist deserves death, that would have to include NATO, the deadliest terroritst organisation there is (and the third most severe threat to human rights).

[Of the 2nd Bohemian-Roman CLOSED BORDERS]

>Not wanting books with sexual assaults on minors = Extremism.

>Loli flag RPing as the most backwards state in the union.

It really does just write itself sometimes.

>Makes stupid-ass mischaracterizations.

>Malding over me hitting a nerve because you can't make an argument, (In "Land of LBGT" is also noted.)

>Confuses California with Alabama, and has no idea what Loli is.

>Nations name is literally "Neu California" that has Los Angeles as the capital for....some reason. somehow 2 anime depictions of minors kissing isn't "loli" despite being the exact definition, apparently doesn't know what RP is in a literal browser game about political RP.

Nevermind, debating with you would be pointless.

[Cyber Duotona]

>Makes stupid-ass mischaracterizations.

>Malding over me hitting a nerve because you can't make an argument, (In "Land of LBGT" is also noted.)

>Confuses California with Alabama, and has no idea what Loli is.

>Nations name is literally "Neu California" that has Los Angeles as the capital for....some reason. somehow 2 anime depictions of minors kissing isn't "loli" despite being the exact definition, apparently doesn't know what RP is in a literal browser game about political RP.

Nevermind, debating with you would be pointless.

hey, heads up, you know you can split up quotes, right? you had me thinking there for a second you were trying to twist their words by editing the quote.

[Cannot think of a name]

So black people are not over represented in police killing because they're over policed.

That's a killer take.

They are not overpoliced, they are policed adequately for how much crime they perpetrate.

Well, that's nice and circular, isn't it?

[Saor Alba]

They are not overpoliced, they are policed adequately for how much crime they perpetrate.

Well, that's nice and circular, isn't it?

I don't know what you want me to say. Police presence lowers crime. Should the police redirect their resources away from black communities?

[Despart]

I condemn worshipping dictators tbh.

[The Astral Mandate]

Well, that's nice and circular, isn't it?

I don't know what you want me to say. Police presence lowers crime. Should the police redirect their resources away from black communities?

What are you implying about said communities?

[Ventura Bay]

I don't know what you want me to say. Police presence lowers crime. Should the police redirect their resources away from black communities?

What are you implying about said communities?

He's implying that there is generally more crime in predominantly black communities, which there is.

[Random small European state]

Well, that's nice and circular, isn't it?

I don't know what you want me to say. Police presence lowers crime. Should the police redirect their resources away from black communities?

Actually yes, the places with the highest crime have the highest concentration of cops, and the presence of police does little to actually stop crime. In fact, it makes the violence worse, as the presence of police is very threatening and cops don’t have the best track record of De-escalating violence. Plus institutionalized racism.

[Great Britain 1800s Rp]

Still a plot point, and shouldn't be allowed in schools.

Again, please answer this question:

And that justifies banning [Antiracist Baby] because?

Also, your extremism is noted. Can you show any harm that comes from just mentioning such a thing (molestation) in a story? Especially since sexual harm happens every day to children and teens and letting them know what it is, that it's not okay, and how to report it and stop it can only be a good thing (Not talking about Racing In The Rain here, just in general)

delusional

[Necroghastia]

You didn't answer my first question.

And the accusation, while being a major plot point, comes and goes pretty damn quickly. It's not lingered on in any detail.

Still a plot point, and shouldn't be allowed in schools with kids.

I assume that you also believe in banning To Kill a Mockingbird.

Time is a flat fucking circle.

[Cannot think of a name]

Well, that's nice and circular, isn't it?

I don't know what you want me to say.

That you're using an intellectually dishonest argument that if you spent half a second examining you'd understand how it's pants on head bonkers, but I won't expect miracles.

Police presence lowers crime.

So...the complete opposite of your assertion then, since you yourself just said that more police means those places have more crime. You can't even keep your own argument straight.

Should the police redirect their resources away from black communities?

Yes.

[Cannot think of a name]

I don't know what you want me to say. Police presence lowers crime. Should the police redirect their resources away from black communities?

Actually yes, the places with the highest crime have the highest concentration of cops, and the presence of police does little to actually stop crime. In fact, it makes the violence worse, as the presence of police is very threatening and cops don’t have the best track record of De-escalating violence. Plus institutionalized racism.

To wit.

[Saor Alba]

I don't know what you want me to say. Police presence lowers crime. Should the police redirect their resources away from black communities?

What are you implying about said communities?

I am not implying anything. I said that black communities suffer from more crime.

Actually yes, the places with the highest crime have the highest concentration of cops, and the presence of police does little to actually stop crime.

And is the prevalence of police the cause of that? Or maybe it's just because urban areas with high populations of African-Americans have higher rates of crime than anywhere else.

Plus institutionalized racism.

I would not want to strawman you, so if you have the time I would appreciate it if you would give an explanation as to how this is relevant before I reply.

That you're using an intellectually dishonest argument that if you spent half a second examining you'd understand how it's pants on head bonkers, but I won't expect miracles.

I understand that posting smug and condescending remarks towards others on the internet might make you feel better about whatever problems you have offline, but it does not get us anywhere in this discussion.

So...the complete opposite of your assertion then, since you yourself just said that more police means those places have more crime. You can't even keep your own argument straight.

I will assume you just misread.

My claim: The police have a higher presence in black communities because there is more crime in black communities
Not my claim: That black communities have higher rates of crime because there are more police present.

Yes.

Believing that black people should not receive the services that they pay taxes for is an interesting position, but you are entitled to your own beliefs.

[Caramana]

Centrist is moving further left because most centrists belive in more left wing things than they would have done 50 years ago. For example women's rights and LGBT+.

[Cannot think of a name]

What are you implying about said communities?

I am not implying anything. I said that black communities suffer from more crime.

Actually yes, the places with the highest crime have the highest concentration of cops, and the presence of police does little to actually stop crime.

And is the prevalence of police the cause of that? Or maybe it's just because urban areas with high populations of African-Americans have higher rates of crime than anywhere else.

Plus institutionalized racism.

I would not want to strawman you, so if you have the time I would appreciate it if you would give an explanation as to how this is relevant before I reply.

That you're using an intellectually dishonest argument that if you spent half a second examining you'd understand how it's pants on head bonkers, but I won't expect miracles.

I understand that posting smug and condescending remarks towards others on the internet might make you feel better about whatever problems you have offline, but it does not get us anywhere in this discussion.

Aw pookums. Leave your psych 101 homework for class.

So...the complete opposite of your assertion then, since you yourself just said that more police means those places have more crime. You can't even keep your own argument straight.

I will assume you just misread.

My claim: The police have a higher presence in black communities because there is more crime in black communities
Not my claim: That black communities have higher rates of crime because there are more police present.

You might want to re-read what you actually wrote then. You can either have more police=less crime or people are policed more because of more crime but you can't have both.

Yes.

Believing that black people should not receive the services that they pay taxes for is an interesting position, but you are entitled to your own beliefs.

Do you feel good about that one? Weren't you the one who just said dismissive things about smug and condescending responses and then you trot out this nonsense?

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Centrist is moving further left because most centrists belive in more left wing things than they would have done 50 years ago. For example women's rights and LGBT+.

In terms of social policy, that does definitely seem to be the case.

Economically, though? 50 years ago the Postwar Consensus still held across much of Western Europe, whereas these days the centrist position is firmly in the neoliberal camp.

[American Legionaries]

What are you implying about said communities?

I am not implying anything. I said that black communities suffer from more crime.

Actually yes, the places with the highest crime have the highest concentration of cops, and the presence of police does little to actually stop crime.

And is the prevalence of police the cause of that? Or maybe it's just because urban areas with high populations of African-Americans have higher rates of crime than anywhere else.

Plus institutionalized racism.

I would not want to strawman you, so if you have the time I would appreciate it if you would give an explanation as to how this is relevant before I reply.

That you're using an intellectually dishonest argument that if you spent half a second examining you'd understand how it's pants on head bonkers, but I won't expect miracles.

I understand that posting smug and condescending remarks towards others on the internet might make you feel better about whatever problems you have offline, but it does not get us anywhere in this discussion.

So...the complete opposite of your assertion then, since you yourself just said that more police means those places have more crime. You can't even keep your own argument straight.

I will assume you just misread.

My claim: The police have a higher presence in black communities because there is more crime in black communities
Not my claim: That black communities have higher rates of crime because there are more police present.

Yes.

Believing that black people should not receive the services that they pay taxes for is an interesting position, but you are entitled to your own beliefs.

Police presence is not a service.

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

Centrist is moving further left because most centrists belive in more left wing things than they would have done 50 years ago. For example women's rights and LGBT+.

that’s because politics overall is, despite a recent outburst of reactionaries, progressing towards acceptance. it doesn’t mean centrists are actually leftist, it means yesterday’s leftism is now centrist.

[Random small European state]

And is the prevalence of police the cause of that? Or maybe it's just because urban areas with high populations of African-Americans have higher rates of crime than anywhere else.

Plus institutionalized racism.

I would not want to strawman you, so if you have the time I would appreciate it if you would give an explanation as to how this is relevant before I reply.

Thanks for the courtesy mate. It is statistically proven though, that most police violence is directed towards black people, most cases of unjustified levels force involve African Americans as the victims, and even in the middle classes, blacks are more likely to experience police brutality. And finally, black neighborhoods are the most police and yes, some of the most fraught with crime. Now, any of these things in isolation could be easily dismissed as coincidence, but all of these things together shows a pattern of using police against the African American population in an institutional level. (This pattern is also repeated towards Hispanics (including Spaniards lol) and Chinese Americans) Therefore, systemic racism.

And the level of crime hasn’t gone down in black neighborhoods, meaning that the police are ineffective at best and are a hostile occupying force at worst, and the worst-case happens quite a bit.

[Saor Alba]

You might want to re-read what you actually wrote then. You can either have more police=less crime or people are policed more because of more crime but you can't have both.

I did, just to be sure I did not mistype. And I did not.

More police = less crime. Higher crime areas have more police present. I do not see why the two need to be exclusive.

[Juansonia]

You might want to re-read what you actually wrote then. You can either have more police=less crime or people are policed more because of more crime but you can't have both.

I did, just to be sure I did not mistype. And I did not.

More police = less crime. Higher crime areas have more police present. I do not see why the two need to be exclusive.

NSG users when negative feedback exists: this is beyond science

[Runnymeede]

The poll at the top is a joke.

[Runnymeede]

Personally I feel like I tend towards the center on many issues because although I am more socially conservative, on economic issues I’m not as consistent. I believe an efficient but strong safety net is important for making sure less fortunate people do not slip through the cracks, I’m similarly not opposed to public healthcare per se, though I think the best system is probably somewhere in between fully public and fully private. Militaries should be primarily defensive, which is a lot more affordable. Environmental conservation is important to me, as are energy alternatives, but I think strong economies drive scientific process so penalizing consumers for using fossil fuels to get to work is counterproductive. But I’m not afraid of taking positions I think are extreme if I actually believe them because I believe morality and truth are objective, so it’s not for fear of sliding too far to one end or another that I feel politically homeless. Pursuing the center out of fear of being extreme rather than conviction is a fallacy.