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UN: Haiti Intervention Needed Now

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What should be done by the international community and regional powers?

Intervention and long-term occupation
10
32%
Intervention and early withdrawal
9
29%
Non-intervention with some aid
6
19%
Non-intervention without aid
5
16%
Other (describe in post)
1
3%
 
Total votes : 31

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The Grand Fifth Imperium
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Founded: Apr 11, 2022
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The Grand Fifth Imperium » Fri May 12, 2023 8:26 pm

Sounds fair enough. I just don't want to see the US propping up another dictator simply because he's "pro-America", like they've done in too many Latin American countries.
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Pridelantic people
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Founded: May 07, 2019
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Pridelantic people » Fri May 12, 2023 8:28 pm

El Lazaro wrote:
The Haitian government, or what there is of one (elections have not been held in years, leaving it without any elected members), faces total collapse due to gangs which resemble ISIS-style terrorists more than crime organizations. For months, Haiti has been nearly without sanitation, healthcare, and education systems. The fledgling military is unable to fight the gangs, and the Haitian National Police (initially numbering 16000, now <10000 with a significant number of gang-loyal moles) has faced widespread desertions. More than a hundred police have been killed, including incidents where the gangs brutally dismembered police and sent videos of mangled corpses to the government. In late January, the remainder of Port-au-Prince not controlled by gangs (>60% of the capital has fallen) saw a police mutiny that very nearly killed Prime Minister Ariel Henry.

The gangs have been around for years, but as the personal enforcers of corrupt politicians, not the rulers of vast swathes of Haiti. This started to change when, following an embezzlement scandal, Venezuela stopped petroleum trade with Haiti, throwing the nation into social and economic turmoil. Corruption, police brutality, and nationwide protests only intensified under President Jovenel Moïse. But in 2021, when Moïse was assassinated by foreign mercenaries after elections were delayed and gang violence escalated, rumors of an internal conspiracy - variously accusing gangs that felt threatened or by his successor and de facto (now de jure, following political maneuvering) Prime Minister Ariel Henry - circulated. The “Revolutionary Forces of the G9 Family Allies” led by Jimmy Chérizier (AKA Barbecue/Babekyou, allegedly after his preferred murder method) accused the government of being illegitimate and declared an armed revolution and was also suspiciously active before the assassination. With the G9 gang coalition quickly extending its control over parts of Port-au-Prince by 2022, their newly formed rivals, G-Pep, vied for control of the capital with the results ultimately being inconclusive.

In response to reduced fuel subsidies, the G9 seized and blockaded the majority of Haiti’s fuel supply for two months last fall, further crippling the economy and making it difficult for public services and businesses to operate. The violence has since exploded, pitting hundreds of equally brutal, murderous, and ruthless gangs against each other and the police. Although the full brunt of the Haitian National Police was able to bring the G9 to the negotiating table, the two major coalitions and dozens or hundreds of smaller groups seem to have the upper hand overall, though no single faction has been strong enough to oust even one of the others. And even if the government falls, nobody will be in control.

Meanwhile, the fighting has created a humanitarian crisis of devastating proportions. The recently ended cholera outbreak has returned, and nearly half of the population faces acute hunger conditions. In gang territory, people avoid going outside in lieu of indiscriminate murder by rooftop snipers and roving patrols as well as constant kidnappings-for-ransom to raise revenue for arms purchases. Rapes of women, children, and LGBT people have become systemic, and gangs use terroristic violence to intimidate civilians. Economic activity is difficult (and borderline impossible sometimes) because of the omnipresent violence; the more powerful the gangs are, the worse these shortages will become. In other words, the country is on the brink of not only state failure, but epidemic and famine, with UNICEF estimating 100,000 children currently on the verge of starving to death. While the Dominican Republic is already refusing Haitians en masse on the basis of race and other nations, such as the US, continue to turn back refugees, a further estimated hundreds of thousands of refugees may yet be displaced in the coming bloodshed.

Following an incident where a dozen apprehended suspects in custody were beaten, stoned, and set on fire (not necessarily in that order) until they died, civilians angered by inaction and increasingly hellish conditions have joined the Bwa Kale movement, vigilante activists who take part in the extrajudicial killing and immolation of suspected gang members. Their lack of training, organization, and use of crude weapons like machetes and stones put both them and innocents at risk; a police officer was killed and burned in a Bwa Kale attack when mistaken for a gang soldier. These kinds of self-defense groups have led to the formation of death squads and terrorist organizations in nations such as Colombia which historically saw similar impunity among drug cartels and opposing terrorists. Whatever impact the Bwa Kale will have, the situation is getting bloodier with or without them—600 civilians died just last month.

The reaction of the international community as a whole has been one of concern, with the UN and the Haitian government repeatedly urging prompt intervention on multiple occasions. Despite this, the response of regional players has mostly been limited to tepid apathy and gawking at the misery while failing to do anything about it. The collapse of Haiti would undoubtedly cause severe security issues for the rest of the Americas, placing an unmitigated version of Somalia in a central location within the continent. Between these two positions of resolve and idleness are the Haitian people, who all remember the murky results of the UN Mission in Haiti following the forced resignation of the president (allegedly involving a French plot), but do not all experience the crisis in the same way. While many in government-controlled areas are able to protest the idea of a foreign intervention (albeit with some police violence), others yet in gang territory cannot pretend that their lives are going on as usual when they cannot access basic services or step outside their houses. The majority of both can agree, however, that the police are clearly outmatched by the gangs. Unless something drastic changes, this is a conflict that will last years or decades and cause a truly staggering death toll.

Some of this is intentionally simplified to avoid an even longer OP; however, corrections are welcome if any of this is inaccurate or outdated. With that said, is any degree of intervention justified? Is this an international issue, or just somebody else’s problem? What will happen to Haiti if the situation continues to devolve at this rate?


In my opinion, Haiti is better served by a flawed government than no government, and a limited intervention could introduce a restart without requiring a prolonged presence. Even if one were to accept a government by the gangs and for the gangs, it’s just not possible, and neither is the acting Haitian government unilaterally resolving the conflict. There won’t be a modicum of peace and stability until free and fair elections can be held, and a democratic government that is legitimate according to its own laws can be established. Intervention may have contributed to the issue in the first place, but even pretending the international community isn’t responsible for fixing its own mistake is tantamount to accepting preventable mass murder. In terms of justifiable distrust of US meddling, Mexico and Brazil ought to be involved in any intervention as multilateral American powers as well as CARICOM; however, even Chinese support (yes, you heard it; the US is asking Brazil to ask the PRC for approval) should be sought, especially in election monitoring. On the subject, neutralizing gangs in all major areas while funding and observing democratic elections could de-escalate the tense political environment and begin consensus-building without a full-on occupation; however, constitutional reform may be needed to establish a more functional and less authoritarian government in the future. While this falls short of “nation-building” in terms of how extensive and drastic it would be after the fighting is won, it seems to me like this could be a minimally controversial solution that can get Haiti to a place where it can deal with its own problems without risking absolute catastrophe for Haitians and other countries alike. Ultimately, I hope something is done to help the Haitian people and stop the crisis from continually getting worse.

Even if Haiti does have an election, the turnout for the election will more than likely be low and seen as illegitimate by the population. It was on the decline since the 2000s both presidential & parliamentary. The gangs are power brokers in the areas they exert influence, mobilising votes for politicians, etc. Caricom doesn't have the logistical capacity to intervene, any intervention will develop into an urban quagmire due to a lack of on the ground information, the gangs blend into the population.
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United Earth Government1
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Founded: Apr 28, 2023
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Postby United Earth Government1 » Fri May 12, 2023 8:33 pm

What about an intervention from the Organization of American States? The United States provides logistical support while other nations in the Americas send troops.
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Juansonia
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Founded: Apr 01, 2022
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Juansonia » Fri May 12, 2023 9:14 pm

The United Nations is the cause of the 2010 Cholera outbreak in Haiti, and they exempted themselves from accountability under international law. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I will assume that any future UN presence in Haiti is an intentional attempt to introduce Cholera or another bioweapon to Haitian soil.

edit: yes, prior UN involvement in Haiti may constitute attempted genocide.
Last edited by Juansonia on Fri May 12, 2023 9:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Picairn
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Fri May 12, 2023 9:25 pm

I support a UN-authorized intervention in Haiti, not unilateral ones. Later nation-building efforts must be organized by the UN as well.
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El Lazaro
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Founded: Oct 19, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby El Lazaro » Sat May 13, 2023 6:23 am

Juansonia wrote:The United Nations is the cause of the 2010 Cholera outbreak in Haiti, and they exempted themselves from accountability under international law. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I will assume that any future UN presence in Haiti is an intentional attempt to introduce Cholera or another bioweapon to Haitian soil.

edit: yes, prior UN involvement in Haiti may constitute attempted genocide.

Well, this is just plain unreasonable. The widespread breakdown of healthcare, sanitation, and water systems has already reintroduced cholera, and comparing medical oversight to outright genocide is frivolous. Regardless of the shaky merits of MINUSTAH and its perhaps disproportional response, there are plenty of reasons not to want perpetual anarchy in Haiti.

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Juansonia
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Founded: Apr 01, 2022
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Juansonia » Sat May 13, 2023 7:23 am

El Lazaro wrote:
Juansonia wrote:The United Nations is the cause of the 2010 Cholera outbreak in Haiti, and they exempted themselves from accountability under international law. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I will assume that any future UN presence in Haiti is an intentional attempt to introduce Cholera or another bioweapon to Haitian soil.

edit: yes, prior UN involvement in Haiti may constitute attempted genocide.
Well, this is just plain unreasonable. The widespread breakdown of healthcare, sanitation, and water systems has already reintroduced cholera, and comparing medical oversight to outright genocide is frivolous. Regardless of the shaky merits of MINUSTAH and its perhaps disproportional response, there are plenty of reasons not to want perpetual anarchy in Haiti.
It is better for a people to end naturally than to be genocided out, but I will concede that their are ways to provide humanitarian - and country-building - aid without as much risk of either. Any aid to Haiti must be subject to the Haitian government's approval and on the terms of said approval. Until the United Nations ceases to claim immunity from prosecution, it would be suicidal to trust a blueskull on Haitian soil.

edit: as far as the "frivolous" part, it isn't, especially because the UN tried to claim immunity. I said "may constitute genocide" to make clear that I didn't mean "The UN is a bunch of genociders", but to say that Haiti should, to gain justice for the 2010 outbreak, prosecute on charges up to and including genocide.
Last edited by Juansonia on Sat May 13, 2023 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hatsune Miku > British Imperialism
IC: MT if you ignore some stuff(mostly flavor), stats are not canon. Embassy link.
OOC: Owns and (sometimes) wears a maid outfit, wants to pair it with a FN SCAR-L. He/Him/His
Space Squid wrote:Each sin should get it's own month.

Right now, Pride gets June, and Greed, Envy, and Gluttony have to share Thanksgiving/Black Friday through Christmas, Sloth gets one day in September, and Lust gets one day in February.

It's not equitable at all
Gandoor wrote:Cliché: A mod making a reply that's full of swearing after someone asks if you're allowed to swear on this site.

It makes me chuckle every time it happens.
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Juansonia
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Founded: Apr 01, 2022
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Juansonia » Sun May 14, 2023 8:30 pm

Juansonia wrote:
El Lazaro wrote:Well, this is just plain unreasonable. The widespread breakdown of healthcare, sanitation, and water systems has already reintroduced cholera, and comparing medical oversight to outright genocide is frivolous. Regardless of the shaky merits of MINUSTAH and its perhaps disproportional response, there are plenty of reasons not to want perpetual anarchy in Haiti.
It is better for a people to end naturally than to be genocided out, but I will concede that their are ways to provide humanitarian - and country-building - aid without as much risk of either. Any aid to Haiti must be subject to the Haitian government's approval and on the terms of said approval. Until the United Nations ceases to claim immunity from prosecution, it would be suicidal to trust a blueskull on Haitian soil.

edit: as far as the "frivolous" part, it isn't, especially because the UN tried to claim immunity. I said "may constitute genocide" to make clear that I didn't mean "The UN is a bunch of genociders", but to say that Haiti should, to gain justice for the 2010 outbreak, prosecute on charges up to and including genocide.
/bump
Hatsune Miku > British Imperialism
IC: MT if you ignore some stuff(mostly flavor), stats are not canon. Embassy link.
OOC: Owns and (sometimes) wears a maid outfit, wants to pair it with a FN SCAR-L. He/Him/His
Space Squid wrote:Each sin should get it's own month.

Right now, Pride gets June, and Greed, Envy, and Gluttony have to share Thanksgiving/Black Friday through Christmas, Sloth gets one day in September, and Lust gets one day in February.

It's not equitable at all
Gandoor wrote:Cliché: A mod making a reply that's full of swearing after someone asks if you're allowed to swear on this site.

It makes me chuckle every time it happens.
Brits mistake Miku for their Anthem

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