NATION

PASSWORD

UN: Haiti Intervention Needed Now

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What should be done by the international community and regional powers?

Intervention and long-term occupation
10
32%
Intervention and early withdrawal
9
29%
Non-intervention with some aid
6
19%
Non-intervention without aid
5
16%
Other (describe in post)
1
3%
 
Total votes : 31

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El Lazaro
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UN: Haiti Intervention Needed Now

Postby El Lazaro » Fri May 12, 2023 5:20 pm

The Haitian government, or what there is of one (elections have not been held in years, leaving it without any elected members), faces total collapse due to gangs which resemble ISIS-style terrorists more than crime organizations. For months, Haiti has been nearly without sanitation, healthcare, and education systems. The fledgling military is unable to fight the gangs, and the Haitian National Police (initially numbering 16000, now <10000 with a significant number of gang-loyal moles) has faced widespread desertions. More than a hundred police have been killed, including incidents where the gangs brutally dismembered police and sent videos of mangled corpses to the government. In late January, the remainder of Port-au-Prince not controlled by gangs (>60% of the capital has fallen) saw a police mutiny that very nearly killed Prime Minister Ariel Henry.

The gangs have been around for years, but as the personal enforcers of corrupt politicians, not the rulers of vast swathes of Haiti. This started to change when, following an embezzlement scandal, Venezuela stopped petroleum trade with Haiti, throwing the nation into social and economic turmoil. Corruption, police brutality, and nationwide protests only intensified under President Jovenel Moïse. But in 2021, when Moïse was assassinated by foreign mercenaries after elections were delayed and gang violence escalated, rumors of an internal conspiracy - variously accusing gangs that felt threatened or by his successor and de facto (now de jure, following political maneuvering) Prime Minister Ariel Henry - circulated. The “Revolutionary Forces of the G9 Family Allies” led by Jimmy Chérizier (AKA Barbecue/Babekyou, allegedly after his preferred murder method) accused the government of being illegitimate and declared an armed revolution and was also suspiciously active before the assassination. With the G9 gang coalition quickly extending its control over parts of Port-au-Prince by 2022, their newly formed rivals, G-Pep, vied for control of the capital with the results ultimately being inconclusive.

In response to reduced fuel subsidies, the G9 seized and blockaded the majority of Haiti’s fuel supply for two months last fall, further crippling the economy and making it difficult for public services and businesses to operate. The violence has since exploded, pitting hundreds of equally brutal, murderous, and ruthless gangs against each other and the police. Although the full brunt of the Haitian National Police was able to bring the G9 to the negotiating table, the two major coalitions and dozens or hundreds of smaller groups seem to have the upper hand overall, though no single faction has been strong enough to oust even one of the others. And even if the government falls, nobody will be in control.

Meanwhile, the fighting has created a humanitarian crisis of devastating proportions. The recently ended cholera outbreak has returned, and nearly half of the population faces acute hunger conditions. In gang territory, people avoid going outside in lieu of indiscriminate murder by rooftop snipers and roving patrols as well as constant kidnappings-for-ransom to raise revenue for arms purchases. Rapes of women, children, and LGBT people have become systemic, and gangs use terroristic violence to intimidate civilians. Economic activity is difficult (and borderline impossible sometimes) because of the omnipresent violence; the more powerful the gangs are, the worse these shortages will become. In other words, the country is on the brink of not only state failure, but epidemic and famine, with UNICEF estimating 100,000 children currently on the verge of starving to death. While the Dominican Republic is already refusing Haitians en masse on the basis of race and other nations, such as the US, continue to turn back refugees, a further estimated hundreds of thousands of refugees may yet be displaced in the coming bloodshed.

Following an incident where a dozen apprehended suspects in custody were beaten, stoned, and set on fire (not necessarily in that order) until they died, civilians angered by inaction and increasingly hellish conditions have joined the Bwa Kale movement, vigilante activists who take part in the extrajudicial killing and immolation of suspected gang members. Their lack of training, organization, and use of crude weapons like machetes and stones put both them and innocents at risk; a police officer was killed and burned in a Bwa Kale attack when mistaken for a gang soldier. These kinds of self-defense groups have led to the formation of death squads and terrorist organizations in nations such as Colombia which historically saw similar impunity among drug cartels and opposing terrorists. Whatever impact the Bwa Kale will have, the situation is getting bloodier with or without them—600 civilians died just last month.

The reaction of the international community as a whole has been one of concern, with the UN and the Haitian government repeatedly urging prompt intervention on multiple occasions. Despite this, the response of regional players has mostly been limited to tepid apathy and gawking at the misery while failing to do anything about it. The collapse of Haiti would undoubtedly cause severe security issues for the rest of the Americas, placing an unmitigated version of Somalia in a central location within the continent. Between these two positions of resolve and idleness are the Haitian people, who all remember the murky results of the UN Mission in Haiti following the forced resignation of the president (allegedly involving a French plot), but do not all experience the crisis in the same way. While many in government-controlled areas are able to protest the idea of a foreign intervention (albeit with some police violence), others yet in gang territory cannot pretend that their lives are going on as usual when they cannot access basic services or step outside their houses. The majority of both can agree, however, that the police are clearly outmatched by the gangs. Unless something drastic changes, this is a conflict that will last years or decades and cause a truly staggering death toll.

Some of this is intentionally simplified to avoid an even longer OP; however, corrections are welcome if any of this is inaccurate or outdated. With that said, is any degree of intervention justified? Is this an international issue, or just somebody else’s problem? What will happen to Haiti if the situation continues to devolve at this rate?

In my opinion, Haiti is better served by a flawed government than no government, and a limited intervention could introduce a restart without requiring a prolonged presence. Even if one were to accept a government by the gangs and for the gangs, it’s just not possible, and neither is the acting Haitian government unilaterally resolving the conflict. There won’t be a modicum of peace and stability until free and fair elections can be held, and a democratic government that is legitimate according to its own laws can be established. Intervention may have contributed to the issue in the first place, but even pretending the international community isn’t responsible for fixing its own mistake is tantamount to accepting preventable mass murder. In terms of justifiable distrust of US meddling, Mexico and Brazil ought to be involved in any intervention as multilateral American powers as well as CARICOM; however, even Chinese support (yes, you heard it; the US is asking Brazil to ask the PRC for approval) should be sought, especially in election monitoring. On the subject, neutralizing gangs in all major areas while funding and observing democratic elections could de-escalate the tense political environment and begin consensus-building without a full-on occupation; however, constitutional reform may be needed to establish a more functional and less authoritarian government in the future. While this falls short of “nation-building” in terms of how extensive and drastic it would be after the fighting is won, it seems to me like this could be a minimally controversial solution that can get Haiti to a place where it can deal with its own problems without risking absolute catastrophe for Haitians and other countries alike. Ultimately, I hope something is done to help the Haitian people and stop the crisis from continually getting worse.
Last edited by El Lazaro on Fri May 12, 2023 8:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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The Orson Empire
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Postby The Orson Empire » Fri May 12, 2023 5:37 pm

I am generally opposed to any American involvement in foreign interventions. After the disasters of Iraq and Afghanistan, the US should never be trusted to responsibly manage another intervention again.

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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Fri May 12, 2023 5:49 pm

The Orson Empire wrote:I am generally opposed to any American involvement in foreign interventions. After the disasters of Iraq and Afghanistan, the US should never be trusted to responsibly manage another intervention again.

Whether or not you think Saddam and the Taliban were better or worse than the instability that followed US intervention, there’s no better alternative than intervention or worse outcome than what’s already happening. The failures at nation-building in both states were half-hearted attempts to change what had already existed, not the restoration a semblance of governance to begin with via the defeat of factions preventing it. The chaos in Afghanistan and Iraq are what is already happening in Haiti, and relative order would be established rather than toppled by ousting those actively undermining it. The situation is almost reversed, although I’d hope nobody as awful as Saddam or the Taliban would somehow come to power with a democratic government. I’d also completely doubt it, but it seems like everyone’s guilty of something in Haitian politics, even if that something isn’t creating a totalitarian theocracy or committing genocide.

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The Verking Federation
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Postby The Verking Federation » Fri May 12, 2023 5:53 pm

My History teacher is Haitian, and he commonly tells us stories about hid childhood there, and if i had no previous knowledge about Haiti and had to go just off his stories. Yea it seems like a pretty trash place right now, if the UN doesnt do something someone needs to, at the very least it coild be a nearby nation like Mexico or heck, even the Dominican Republic.
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The Orson Empire
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Postby The Orson Empire » Fri May 12, 2023 5:56 pm

El Lazaro wrote:
The Orson Empire wrote:I am generally opposed to any American involvement in foreign interventions. After the disasters of Iraq and Afghanistan, the US should never be trusted to responsibly manage another intervention again.

Whether or not you think Saddam and the Taliban were better or worse than the instability that followed US intervention, there’s no better alternative than intervention or worse outcome than what’s already happening. The failures at nation-building in both states were half-hearted attempts to change what had already existed, not the restoration a semblance of governance to begin with via the defeat of factions preventing it. The chaos in Afghanistan and Iraq are what is already happening in Haiti, and relative order would be established rather than toppled by ousting those actively undermining it. The situation is almost reversed, although I’d hope nobody as awful as Saddam or the Taliban would somehow come to power with a democratic government. I’d also completely doubt it, but it seems like everyone’s guilty of something in Haitian politics, even if that something isn’t creating a totalitarian theocracy or committing genocide.

I don't trust it. It'll start out as a "limited intervention" to just wipe out the gangs, and then escalate to us occupying Haiti for years or even decades as it descends into a quagmire.

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Georgian Kingdom
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Postby Georgian Kingdom » Fri May 12, 2023 5:59 pm

that's why they need to invest in a strong army
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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Fri May 12, 2023 6:03 pm

The Orson Empire wrote:
El Lazaro wrote:Whether or not you think Saddam and the Taliban were better or worse than the instability that followed US intervention, there’s no better alternative than intervention or worse outcome than what’s already happening. The failures at nation-building in both states were half-hearted attempts to change what had already existed, not the restoration a semblance of governance to begin with via the defeat of factions preventing it. The chaos in Afghanistan and Iraq are what is already happening in Haiti, and relative order would be established rather than toppled by ousting those actively undermining it. The situation is almost reversed, although I’d hope nobody as awful as Saddam or the Taliban would somehow come to power with a democratic government. I’d also completely doubt it, but it seems like everyone’s guilty of something in Haitian politics, even if that something isn’t creating a totalitarian theocracy or committing genocide.

I don't trust it. It'll start out as a "limited intervention" to just wipe out the gangs, and then escalate to us occupying Haiti for years or even decades as it descends into a quagmire.

Besides the police, they’re the only armed groups in the country. Sectarian tensions aren’t nearly as complex, multifaceted, and politically powerful as Afghanistan or Iraq either. And again, the course Haiti’s on cannot possibly get worse. It’s very weird to be saying this, but the involvement of countries like China (politically, not militarily) in a UN effort would force the coalition involved to limit their actions. I agree that a unilateral, non-UN intervention, on the other hand, would be untrustworthy and unaccountable to its original goals. This is more an issue of who else is on board (and whether it’s in compliance with international law) than whether any US involvement is a bad thing.
Last edited by El Lazaro on Fri May 12, 2023 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Relikai
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Postby Relikai » Fri May 12, 2023 6:13 pm

The Orson Empire wrote:
El Lazaro wrote:Whether or not you think Saddam and the Taliban were better or worse than the instability that followed US intervention, there’s no better alternative than intervention or worse outcome than what’s already happening. The failures at nation-building in both states were half-hearted attempts to change what had already existed, not the restoration a semblance of governance to begin with via the defeat of factions preventing it. The chaos in Afghanistan and Iraq are what is already happening in Haiti, and relative order would be established rather than toppled by ousting those actively undermining it. The situation is almost reversed, although I’d hope nobody as awful as Saddam or the Taliban would somehow come to power with a democratic government. I’d also completely doubt it, but it seems like everyone’s guilty of something in Haitian politics, even if that something isn’t creating a totalitarian theocracy or committing genocide.

I don't trust it. It'll start out as a "limited intervention" to just wipe out the gangs, and then escalate to us occupying Haiti for years or even decades as it descends into a quagmire.


Any US-led effort might basically be an effort to 'Properly Democratize' any nation into being a US-aligned land. Haiti fought for independence and achieved it against the French and Spanish, and any UN-intervention is a US-intervention, who we know will be mainly made of primarily whites, ironically the ones Haiti won their freedom against.

However the difference is that Haiti is closer to the US in proximity, geographical influence, and is much smaller and accessible than Iraq and Afghanistan. If anything, Asian and African peacekeepers should take the lead in restoring order. Martial Law is needed to cease the violence, but it can only be declared by a 'rightful' national leader.
Russia's an idiot. So is the US, and quite a few of the western sphere. Population education and literacy is your issue, not the politics of foreign nations.
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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Fri May 12, 2023 6:25 pm

Relikai wrote:
The Orson Empire wrote:I don't trust it. It'll start out as a "limited intervention" to just wipe out the gangs, and then escalate to us occupying Haiti for years or even decades as it descends into a quagmire.


Any US-led effort might basically be an effort to 'Properly Democratize' any nation into being a US-aligned land. Haiti fought for independence and achieved it against the French and Spanish, and any UN-intervention is a US-intervention, who we know will be mainly made of primarily whites, ironically the ones Haiti won their freedom against.

However the difference is that Haiti is closer to the US in proximity, geographical influence, and is much smaller and accessible than Iraq and Afghanistan. If anything, Asian and African peacekeepers should take the lead in restoring order. Martial Law is needed to cease the violence, but it can only be declared by a 'rightful' national leader.

The majority of Latin Americans are mestizo, or of mixed Indigenous American and European descent. If you want act like the merits of intervention are purely based on the races of those involved, wealthier Han Chinese colonizers gloating over African imperial subjects isn’t much more kosher. I don’t think the African Union is particularly interested in taking a technically difficult and potentially expensive operation across the ocean on all by themselves, nor should they be expected to. It’s an American (as in the continent) concern first and foremost, and it’s not like countries solely function as international representatives of their racial majority as defined by a very Americentric (as in the country) view of race.

On a different subject, Haiti has already had rule by decree. Ever since Moïse started ruling without legal restraints, political violence, instability, and distrust of the government have only gotten worse. Henry has continued it, and his attempt at strongman rule of the acting government has led to plenty of failures and embarrassments. Lawful and democratic governance are more important than giving more power to an executive that will abuse it.
Last edited by El Lazaro on Fri May 12, 2023 6:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Terra dei Cittadini
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Postby Terra dei Cittadini » Fri May 12, 2023 6:28 pm

If anything, Haiti would need a highly restrained intervention, and if it goes south, we get NATO and the UN involved.
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Fri May 12, 2023 6:29 pm

The Verking Federation wrote:My History teacher is Haitian, and he commonly tells us stories about hid childhood there, and if i had no previous knowledge about Haiti and had to go just off his stories. Yea it seems like a pretty trash place right now, if the UN doesnt do something someone needs to, at the very least it coild be a nearby nation like Mexico or heck, even the Dominican Republic.

Carrying out a major intervention is not a simple matter and Mexico 100% lacks the capacity to do so, while the Dominican Republic only very probably lacks the capacity to do so.
The only new world powers with the ability to carry out an intervention in Haiti are the US and Brazil(and Brazil would probably need a local ally for logistical support). Of old world powers, France likely has the power projection capabilities if we assume a friendly US, and China could with Cuban support probably do it(although it's worth noting the USA would never allow it and China has no reason to want to). India or Japan are a bit more of a long shot and probably could spearhead a coalition if the US gave permission, although, again, neither of them have any reason to care about Haiti.
With the Russian military currently getting demolished, and the British navy showing its budget cuts, that's pretty much the list of possible intervention leaders. None of them are likely to start caring about Haiti.
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Fri May 12, 2023 6:31 pm

El Lazaro wrote:
Relikai wrote:
Any US-led effort might basically be an effort to 'Properly Democratize' any nation into being a US-aligned land. Haiti fought for independence and achieved it against the French and Spanish, and any UN-intervention is a US-intervention, who we know will be mainly made of primarily whites, ironically the ones Haiti won their freedom against.

However the difference is that Haiti is closer to the US in proximity, geographical influence, and is much smaller and accessible than Iraq and Afghanistan. If anything, Asian and African peacekeepers should take the lead in restoring order. Martial Law is needed to cease the violence, but it can only be declared by a 'rightful' national leader.

The majority of Latin Americans are mestizo, or of mixed Indigenous American and European descent. If you want act like the merits of intervention are purely based on the races of those involved, wealthier Han Chinese colonizers gloating over African imperial subjects isn’t much more kosher. I don’t think the African Union is particularly interested in taking a technically difficult and potentially expensive operation across the ocean on all by themselves, nor should they be expected to. It’s an American (as in the continent) concern first and foremost, and it’s not like countries solely function as international representatives of their racial majority as defined by a very Americentric (as in the country) view of race.

I'm not sure where race came into it, but unlike other Latin American countries, the vast majority of Haitians have no European ancestry whatsoever. They're pretty much all black of nearly pure west African ancestry.
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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Fri May 12, 2023 6:33 pm

Diopolis wrote:
El Lazaro wrote:The majority of Latin Americans are mestizo, or of mixed Indigenous American and European descent. If you want act like the merits of intervention are purely based on the races of those involved, wealthier Han Chinese colonizers gloating over African imperial subjects isn’t much more kosher. I don’t think the African Union is particularly interested in taking a technically difficult and potentially expensive operation across the ocean on all by themselves, nor should they be expected to. It’s an American (as in the continent) concern first and foremost, and it’s not like countries solely function as international representatives of their racial majority as defined by a very Americentric (as in the country) view of race.

I'm not sure where race came into it, but unlike other Latin American countries, the vast majority of Haitians have no European ancestry whatsoever. They're pretty much all black of nearly pure west African ancestry.

They’re suggesting the Americas shouldn’t be involved because they’re “white” just like Frenchmen and Spaniards.

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Relikai
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Postby Relikai » Fri May 12, 2023 6:36 pm

Diopolis wrote:None of them are likely to start caring about Haiti.


Pretty much why Haiti only came into the radar when things finally became a shitfest it is today. If only the same attention was given to Haiti as Iraq and Afghanistan was given.

Terra dei Cittadini wrote:If anything, Haiti would need a highly restrained intervention, and if it goes south, we get NATO and the UN involved.


Maybe they'd finally start caring about something within the North Atlantic rather than launching cruise missiles and drone missiles at Muslim weddings, children and aid workers.
Last edited by Relikai on Fri May 12, 2023 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Russia's an idiot. So is the US, and quite a few of the western sphere. Population education and literacy is your issue, not the politics of foreign nations.
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Fri May 12, 2023 6:39 pm

Relikai wrote:
Diopolis wrote:None of them are likely to start caring about Haiti.


Pretty much why Haiti only came into the radar when things finally became a shitfest it is today. If only the same attention was given to Haiti as Iraq and Afghanistan was given.

Terra dei Cittadini wrote:If anything, Haiti would need a highly restrained intervention, and if it goes south, we get NATO and the UN involved.


Maybe they'd finally start caring about something within the North Atlantic rather than launching cruise missiles and drone missiles at Muslim weddings, children and aid workers.

Ironically, of the great powers in the world today, the one with most reason to care about Haiti is... the United States, which has no political will for another decades long conflict.
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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Fri May 12, 2023 7:30 pm

We should not be intervening unless it's our business. I'm fine with giving targeted aid (so long as there are procedures in place to make sure it isn't withheld by corrupt officials) and accepting some refugees but that's about it. Intervening in a country with which we are woefully unfamiliar sounds like a recipe for disaster, historically speaking.

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Postby Port Caverton » Fri May 12, 2023 7:34 pm

Proposal: Make it the 51st state.
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Eternal Algerstonia
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Postby Eternal Algerstonia » Fri May 12, 2023 7:37 pm

Port Caverton wrote:Proposal: Make it the 51st state.

why do that when cuba is right there
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Port Caverton
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Postby Port Caverton » Fri May 12, 2023 7:38 pm

Eternal Algerstonia wrote:
Port Caverton wrote:Proposal: Make it the 51st state.

why do that when cuba is right there

How about both? It's time that a country called the United States of America lives up to its name!
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Eternal Algerstonia
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Postby Eternal Algerstonia » Fri May 12, 2023 7:51 pm

Port Caverton wrote:
Eternal Algerstonia wrote:why do that when cuba is right there

How about both? It's time that a country called the United States of America lives up to its name!

TRUE! the 51st state of cuaiti it is
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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Fri May 12, 2023 7:55 pm

Diopolis wrote:
The Verking Federation wrote:My History teacher is Haitian, and he commonly tells us stories about hid childhood there, and if i had no previous knowledge about Haiti and had to go just off his stories. Yea it seems like a pretty trash place right now, if the UN doesnt do something someone needs to, at the very least it coild be a nearby nation like Mexico or heck, even the Dominican Republic.

Carrying out a major intervention is not a simple matter and Mexico 100% lacks the capacity to do so, while the Dominican Republic only very probably lacks the capacity to do so.
The only new world powers with the ability to carry out an intervention in Haiti are the US and Brazil(and Brazil would probably need a local ally for logistical support). Of old world powers, France likely has the power projection capabilities if we assume a friendly US, and China could with Cuban support probably do it(although it's worth noting the USA would never allow it and China has no reason to want to). India or Japan are a bit more of a long shot and probably could spearhead a coalition if the US gave permission, although, again, neither of them have any reason to care about Haiti.
With the Russian military currently getting demolished, and the British navy showing its budget cuts, that's pretty much the list of possible intervention leaders. None of them are likely to start caring about Haiti.

Japan would never, under any circumstances, be involved in a conflict like this. When some LDP politicians started suggesting Japan should have the capability to intervene in international conflicts if the US approves of Japanese intervention after ISIS beheaded a Japanese civilian on video, that was already intensely controversial and basically implied an unprecedented amendment to (and near removal of) Article 9 of Japan’s constitution. I would, for certain reasons, just not want China to have practice landing invasion forces and fighting in close quarters asymmetric warfare.

The main reason for Mexico being on board would be diplomatic, although they do have practice fighting criminal organizations without being able to obliterate them with a massively superior air force. More importantly, Morena seems like it will win the 2024 elections, and relations with Mexico have certainly been strained by Trump’s xenophobic rhetoric and more recent GOP hawkishness on Mexico. Including AMLO would make the intervention appear more credible and widely supported ("neutral") while rebuilding friendly ties with Mexico, potentially at a low cost for both of us. Brazil, probably, although MINUSTAH might not make Brazil a favorite among Haitians. Out of all of them, however, the last country I would want to have military forces in Haiti would be the DR.

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Postby South China Sea Islands » Fri May 12, 2023 8:03 pm

It would be considerable to start a revolution.

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The Grand Fifth Imperium
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Postby The Grand Fifth Imperium » Fri May 12, 2023 8:05 pm

I would oppose UN intervention (unless the official Haitian government requests it) because that ultimately will be synonymous with US intervention. Frankly, I think constant intervening in a sovereign nation's domestic affairs only causes things to get worse. If this however, spills over into other parts of the Caribbean, I would say an international coalition might be necessary to put things back into order. Also, sending aid to the Haitian government to help them squash the gangs underfoot.

Executive Order No. 14501

plans concerning Operation: Dumpster Fire

1. the USDOD is to begin preparations for intervention in the nation of Haiti by December 2023
2. the Navy is to begin blockading the nation in late December, for "security concerns" involving Guantanamo Bay
3. US Marines are to be dispatched to take the city of Port-au-Prince, and secure it as a landing point for more troops. Officially, this is to be for "humanitarian reasons" in order to "bring a cease to the violence"
3. a series of military campaigns in conjunction with the Haitian National Police accompanied by heavy air support provided especially by A-10 attack fighters and UAVs are to bring about the effective annihilation of the gangs
4. after the gangs are destroyed, US troops will then topple the Haitian government, officially because "it has permitted the violence to go unchecked", and will occupy it "indefinitely"
5. we have now solved the Haitian migrant crisis
6. this is a joke, in case you haven't figured this out
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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Fri May 12, 2023 8:17 pm

The Grand Fifth Imperium wrote:I would oppose UN intervention (unless the official Haitian government requests it) because that ultimately will be synonymous with US intervention. Frankly, I think constant intervening in a sovereign nation's domestic affairs only causes things to get worse. If this however, spills over into other parts of the Caribbean, I would say an international coalition might be necessary to put things back into order. Also, sending aid to the Haitian government to help them squash the gangs underfoot.

Executive Order No. 14501

plans concerning Operation: Dumpster Fire

1. the USDOD is to begin preparations for intervention in the nation of Haiti by December 2023
2. the Navy is to begin blockading the nation in late December, for "security concerns" involving Guantanamo Bay
3. US Marines are to be dispatched to take the city of Port-au-Prince, and secure it as a landing point for more troops. Officially, this is to be for "humanitarian reasons" in order to "bring a cease to the violence"
3. a series of military campaigns in conjunction with the Haitian National Police accompanied by heavy air support provided especially by A-10 attack fighters and UAVs are to bring about the effective annihilation of the gangs
4. after the gangs are destroyed, US troops will then topple the Haitian government, officially because "it has permitted the violence to go unchecked", and will occupy it "indefinitely"
5. we have now solved the Haitian migrant crisis
6. this is a joke, in case you haven't figured this out

The internationally recognized (and only functioning) government of Haiti has explicitly requested intervention by any party available, including the UN and the US, although under Haitian law, there is no government at the moment because the process of forming a provisional government was kind of extra-legal, and it’s impossible to hold elections at the moment.

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Relikai
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Posts: 10003
Founded: Feb 11, 2014
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Relikai » Fri May 12, 2023 8:17 pm

The Grand Fifth Imperium wrote:I would oppose UN intervention (unless the official Haitian government requests it) because that ultimately will be synonymous with US intervention. Frankly, I think constant intervening in a sovereign nation's domestic affairs only causes things to get worse. If this however, spills over into other parts of the Caribbean, I would say an international coalition might be necessary to put things back into order. Also, sending aid to the Haitian government to help them squash the gangs underfoot.

[spoiler=TOP SECRET]Executive Order No. 14501


If it is an intervention headed by the US (Because they have the most experience in occupations of territories), but provided by Caribbean and South American nations, would it be a better proposition or worse, since local neighbours may be suspected to have their agendas in the peacekeeping.
Russia's an idiot. So is the US, and quite a few of the western sphere. Population education and literacy is your issue, not the politics of foreign nations.
A deviant in the echochamber.

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