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India and Pakistan: a tale of divergence

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Grand matrix of Dues ex machina
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Posts: 9
Founded: Jun 26, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

India and Pakistan: a tale of divergence

Postby Grand matrix of Dues ex machina » Fri May 12, 2023 9:05 am

Recent news from Pakistan does to seize to amaze me and you should be amaze too. India, in her brief history after independence became a shining beacon of democracy and civil society whereas Pakistan became a failed state and a basket case for political mismanagement. Both pieces of the same cloth. Same culture and society should have governed them but that does seems to be the case. You may be tempted to cite that under BJP government India had become more authoritarian but it is just a brief moment in Indian political history. India has seen worse days under INC madam Indra Gandhi (aka the emergency) and a force sterilization campaign under INC sir Rajiv Gandhi. So this is just one of those messy times. Many not belonging to India should know that BJP has lost state elections in three states and the capital region as recently as this very year. So BJP is the legitimate democratic government of India whether you like it or not. They have not won by election fraud or any other ill practice but by will of the people just like Donald Trump did in America much to the disdain of the local liberals. Indian democratic fabric is more powerful than the world largest political party. And I believe that any government if elected democratically should be accepted regardless of ideology.
Economically it is the same story, India vs Pakistan is more like David vs Goliath, just that the Goliath seems to have won the match. India is the second largest driver of global growth after China while Pakistan is facing a balance of payment crisis. Again you might be tempted to shift the blame on the recent flood but Pakistan's love affair with the IMF is a very long story. Almost as old as it's founding, dramatically speaking. One an emerging economic great power other a an economic basket case ( as well). The economic gap between them widening at ever faster rate. Again you might be tempted to shift the blame on Pakistan's small size. India is leading its smaller sibling neighbor by the nose in gdp per capita ( nominally) and utterly dominating it in gdp per capita (ppp). Pakistan has been, for a long time, infected by economic instant gratification. It's economy dominated by its own army and crony capitalists. It's economic and fiscal fabric torn to pieces by government subsidies. On government subsidies, you can very well argue that India does the same but I rise to say that whenever that happens the RBI and the Supreme Court can not only question the budget but halt it too if necessary but in Pakistan despite having a central bank, the SBP did not stop the economic suicide.
This only leaves one question, WHY? Why does Pakistan always comes in India's way and always tries to stop our progress ?
We in India fear Pakistan as we see him as an alternate self. What India would have become if we would have gone down the road of religious radicalism and extremism instead of secular development. We all (Indians) should caution ourselves with this tale of two nations.
Please share your opinions with me. I would love to read it. Thank you.
Edited:
I forgot to mention the adani scandal. The Supreme Court and the ED has ordered an investigation into the matter as of now.
Edit 2#
I think I forgot to present enough evidence.
India:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 195381.cms
https://indianexpress.com/article/expla ... s-8565720/
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ele ... sh/results
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 042384.cms
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ele ... ya/results
Pakistan:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/3/2 ... rts-powers
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-65579500
https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2023/ ... on-to-rise
https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2023/ ... m-protests
https://m.economictimes.com/news/intern ... 137147.cms
Now Nigeria:
https://www.brookings.edu/podcast-episo ... tion-fair/
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/28/worl ... enges.html
https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/04/25/nig ... d-violence
https://www.hrw.org/report/2016/10/20/t ... bition-act
Now I will let you all decide which country is more democratic.
Last edited by Grand matrix of Dues ex machina on Sat May 13, 2023 3:43 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Wejakd
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Founded: May 08, 2023
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

India and Pakistan: a tale of divergence

Postby Wejakd » Fri May 12, 2023 9:10 am

hello endorse me cuh

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El Lazaro
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Posts: 4552
Founded: Oct 19, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby El Lazaro » Fri May 12, 2023 10:15 am

Both India and Pakistan have a lot of problems, just different ones.

Wejakd wrote:hello endorse me cuh

You need to be in the WA to get endorsements, and only WA members in the same region as you can endorse you. This also isn’t a topic for NSG.
Last edited by El Lazaro on Fri May 12, 2023 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Vrbo
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Founded: Apr 27, 2023
Libertarian Police State

Postby Vrbo » Fri May 12, 2023 10:42 am

I'm going to be real, this post comes off as major India propaganda and comes off as almost prejudicial against Pakistanis. Almost like, an Indian wumao. This is funny because even Nigeria ranks as more democratic than India despite it being a "beacon of democracy".
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Southland
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Founded: Oct 09, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Southland » Fri May 12, 2023 10:47 am

As much as I hate the "BOth SIdES" argument, I think both government suck. Pakistan is a no-brainer for the stuff outlined, and with India I see a country that has happily embraced religious fanaticism like its neighbor and is gearing itself up for a genocide against Muslims (and when they're taken care of, the Christians and the Sikhs will be next in that order). I find that the constant excuse of "but the BJP is unpopular!" to be entirely unconvincing, given that Modi consistently has a high approval raging (in the mid-70s last I checked) and its well-documented that the RSS and the Hindutva in general are radicalizing the Indian diaspora.

Also, India can't relaly call itself the "world's largest democracy" anymore, given that Freedom House has classified it as "partially free" since 2021, the same category the Balkans, Peru, and (ironically) Pakistan are in.

The way I see it, unless the opposition gets their acts together and curbstomps the BJP in the next election, which I find highly unlikely, India will just be Pakistan in a gucci belt.
Last edited by Southland on Fri May 12, 2023 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vrbo
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Founded: Apr 27, 2023
Libertarian Police State

Postby Vrbo » Sun May 14, 2023 4:59 pm

Heads up OP: You need to make a new post if you want to engage with other people, not edit your OP and telegram me asking me to read through what constitutes as Indian state propaganda.
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Sorcery
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Founded: Feb 02, 2023
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Sorcery » Sun May 14, 2023 5:02 pm

Wejakd wrote:hello endorse me cuh

stay classy.
Last edited by Sorcery on Sun May 14, 2023 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Picairn
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Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Sun May 14, 2023 8:41 pm

> "India is a shining beacon of democracy and civil society"
> "BJP is authoritarian but only a brief moment in Indian history, the Gandhis were worse"

Lol get outta here with that Indian apologia, mate.
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/6 ... cksliding/
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El Lazaro
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Founded: Oct 19, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby El Lazaro » Mon May 15, 2023 5:52 am

Picairn wrote:> "India is a shining beacon of democracy and civil society"
> "BJP is authoritarian but only a brief moment in Indian history, the Gandhis were worse"

Lol get outta here with that Indian apologia, mate.
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/6 ... cksliding/

India has only been authoritarian under the INC and BJP, whose rule collectively makes up over 90% of the Republic’s history. Just a minor problem, basically.

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Free Papua Republic
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Posts: 39
Founded: Jan 03, 2023
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Free Papua Republic » Mon May 15, 2023 6:02 am

Indian government ain't the best, but tbh given the insane sheer size and colonial history of deliberately weakened state structure, it's been doing quite well.

Pakistan's state model (ruled by the military even today) is straight up trash though, as in "the country is probably going to blow up in the next 5 years"

Even Bangladesh' "the entire country is a sweatshop" state structure seems to be far more promising and stable. This is even with Bangladesh having basically no natural resources, and got their independence after being struck by an apocalyptic natural disaster and undergoing a genocide by the Pakistanis. Basically the worst starting position imaginable
Last edited by Free Papua Republic on Mon May 15, 2023 6:05 am, edited 3 times in total.

Papua is free, and united... under a Rhodesia-style settler state dominated by Europeans, hell-bent on averting the threat of another Bosnia-style civil war. To keep Western support, they kept a democratic facade, hiding away the occasional disappearances, apartheid police brutality, exploitation of native and Chinese plantation workers, and wholesale environmental destruction.
Port Daily - 2023/01/05 | Schouten Empress sank after departure from Manoekwari, 'millions' of liters of crude oil spilled into the biologically rich western region of Geelvink Bay, whistleblower blames 'shipping overcapacity to cut costs'
Fun fact: I will unironically vote for Miki Meijer. The situation in Papua New Guinea is literally truly apocalyptically bad.

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Republique Grande Francaise
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Posts: 77
Founded: May 16, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Republique Grande Francaise » Mon May 15, 2023 6:05 am

How much does the BJP pay you?
Viva La Française

In this far future scenario, France has emerged as a dominant multiversal power on Earth and across multiple multiverses. Through technological advancements, diplomacy, and strategic alliances, France has achieved unparalleled influence and control over vast territories. With it's chief rivals the United States, The United Kingdom, Soviet Union and China it's in a state of Cold War raging across countless dimensions.

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Free Papua Republic
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Founded: Jan 03, 2023
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Free Papua Republic » Mon May 15, 2023 6:14 am

El Lazaro wrote:Both India and Pakistan have a lot of problems, just different ones.

Wejakd wrote:hello endorse me cuh

You need to be in the WA to get endorsements, and only WA members in the same region as you can endorse you. This also isn’t a topic for NSG.

I mean I feel like Indian nationalists should focus more on economics than democracy if they wanna strike some dopamine points against Pakistan. Pakistan's economy is an unprecedented disaster and a time bomb: their productivity is very little and they are literally dependent on new and new debt to feed the population. If the debt money stops coming (e.g. because they can't pay back the existing debt and defaults), the food and fuel also stops becoming buyable to the populace. If the populace can't buy food, they tend to become really angry.

Papua is free, and united... under a Rhodesia-style settler state dominated by Europeans, hell-bent on averting the threat of another Bosnia-style civil war. To keep Western support, they kept a democratic facade, hiding away the occasional disappearances, apartheid police brutality, exploitation of native and Chinese plantation workers, and wholesale environmental destruction.
Port Daily - 2023/01/05 | Schouten Empress sank after departure from Manoekwari, 'millions' of liters of crude oil spilled into the biologically rich western region of Geelvink Bay, whistleblower blames 'shipping overcapacity to cut costs'
Fun fact: I will unironically vote for Miki Meijer. The situation in Papua New Guinea is literally truly apocalyptically bad.

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Bahrimontagn
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 136
Founded: Jan 20, 2023
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Bahrimontagn » Mon May 15, 2023 2:21 pm

India is hardly a beacon of anything democratic, and it's economic prowess is fragile.

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Southland
Envoy
 
Posts: 247
Founded: Oct 09, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Southland » Mon May 15, 2023 2:23 pm

Republique Grande Francaise wrote:How much does the BJP pay you?


They do it for free in my experience, which makes it extra pathetic.
Disserbia wrote:swaziland on acid and jesus
Novaya Tselinoyarsk wrote:In defiance everyone should go on protest with a Big Gulp.

(Image)

Ealdracaland wrote:I get a weird vibe from the sun on the flag. It feels like it's looking at me with malicious intent.
Verkhoyanska wrote:Condemn for having that creepy looking sun in your flag. IT'S STARING INTO MY SOUL.

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Risottia
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Posts: 54738
Founded: Sep 05, 2006
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Risottia » Wed May 17, 2023 5:47 am

Grand matrix of Dues ex machina wrote:India, in her brief history after independence became a shining beacon of democracy and civil society

:rofl:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-65347773

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-58328014

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-62830634

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-54418513

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-58406194

"Shining beacon of democracy" my firm, muscular buttocks.
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