Should Pornography be banned in the US?

[Diarcesia]

You dirty or smth?

? Not sure what you mean. I simply tend to be dismissive of petty bourgeois notions of morality, at least when it comes to trying to censor, regulate, and ban anything that doesn't appeal to them. Then again, to be fair, the radical left proletarians and far-right aristocratic types can be guilty of that, too. Just look at the British Tories of late.

I find it hilarious that codes that ban "shit" but are okay with "defecate" exist.

[Delvian States]

I said that I'm on the fence. It's a morally grey area. The only question for me is....are they being actually harmed? That's the dilemma.

Doesn’t matter if it’s hurting them or not, bestiality is a crime.

And that is generally enough, anyway. It's not a cause that I believe in, let alone to the point of civil disobedience. It was a matter that I was musing and deliberating openly in real time. And concluded ultimately, against my usual libertarian instincts in these matters, that it was necessary to prohibit it. That takes some doing.

[Munchkinstan]

You dirty or smth?

? Not sure what you mean. I simply tend to be dismissive of petty bourgeois notions of morality, at least when it comes to trying to censor, regulate, and ban anything that doesn't appeal to them. Then again, to be fair, the radical left proletarians and far-right aristocratic types can be guilty of that, too. Just look at the British Tories of late.

Your family friendly/drove down suicide koombayah post is not exactly bourgeois. But it’s painfully unrealistic.

[Delvian States]

? Not sure what you mean. I simply tend to be dismissive of petty bourgeois notions of morality, at least when it comes to trying to censor, regulate, and ban anything that doesn't appeal to them. Then again, to be fair, the radical left proletarians and far-right aristocratic types can be guilty of that, too. Just look at the British Tories of late.

Your family friendly/drove down suicide koombayah post is not exactly bourgeois. But it’s painfully unrealistic.

Okay, now you're talking gibberish.

[Torisakia]

Yes but only the US. The other 194 or so countries are free to continue viewing.

[Munchkinstan]

Your family friendly/drove down suicide koombayah post is not exactly bourgeois. But it’s painfully unrealistic.

Okay, now you're talking gibberish.

My apologies. I confused your post with that of No Name or something.

[Arval Va]

Not that I'm agreeing with them, but we're not bonobos.

Genetically speaking, we're 98.7% bonobos.

And that will have to do. Psychology and sociology don't exactly strike me as fields with incentive to tell it like it is when you consider how beholden they are to a public that flies off the handle when you note that respondents cannot be proven honest.

Genetically speaking, we're 97% rat and 70% single-celled amoeba. A little bit goes a long way.

[Name 0]

Your family friendly/drove down suicide koombayah post is not exactly bourgeois. But it’s painfully unrealistic.

Okay, now you're talking gibberish.

Bro it is just a discussion not a real talk

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Genetically speaking, we're 98.7% bonobos.

And that will have to do. Psychology and sociology don't exactly strike me as fields with incentive to tell it like it is when you consider how beholden they are to a public that flies off the handle when you note that respondents cannot be proven honest.

Genetically speaking, we're 97% rat and 70% single-celled amoeba. A little bit goes a long way.

Still closer to bonobos than to rats. Though given that rats get caught in the trap when they get greedy, we're not too different from rats either.

And again, it all comes down to the question of what the alternative to genetic reasoning even is.

[Ryemarch]

Feels pretty heretical, anon, not going to lie.

One more for the pile.

I wouldn't use the term "thoughtcrime"

One of the reasons Floofy gave for opposing porn is that it's sinful, someone asked where in the Bible it said so, and Floofy cited Matthew 5:28. "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Thoughtcrime. The mere act of desiring is evil.

but we go back to the war on drugs mindset. Floof is assuming that the police will be good at their job but as we've seen that isn't guaranteed. Its just a lot of unnecessary work for everyone involved

On that I agree with you.

[Alcala-Cordel]

I don't believe porn should be banned, but there should be more protections for sex workers. Many porn companies get away with some really disgusting, coercive shit.

[Fahran]

"Cuckoldry" is distinct from "aggression." Didn't Tamora have sex with Aaron the Moor willingly? Isn't that a more popular stereotype than that of black men as outright forcing themselves on women? We know Mel Gibson insinuating the latter wasn't received quite so positively. (Incidentally, though, it was still protected under freedom of speech.)

The tropes are, to some extent, associated. The common vein here is that black sexuality is threatening, and that trope exists from a fairly early period, even before the publication of books like The Birth of a Nation or the often misunderstood Mandingo, both authored and published by white men. The exact form that threat takes has varied, but I do not believe we arrive at modern tropes without the preexisting history of racism, fetishization, dehumanization, and objectification - something which, per my article, impacts black women as well, albeit in different ways.

So how much of it belongs to women then?

That's difficult to quantify given how institutional racism and institutional sexism work. In general, my own perspective is that women contribute about half of the perpetuation of patriarchy in modern society, but, again, more careful authors do not resort to blaming all men even when they assert (somewhat wrongly in my opinion) that men enjoy disproportionate power in this respect.

A. "Producers" and "directors" don't count for anything, since they're only catering to consumer demand. Only in their capacity as consumers does it count.

They're instrumental in perpetuating the male gaze and the content they produce can and does shape the appetites of their audience. We know this because studies suggest as much. And that's not solely true of pornographic content. The Queen's Gambit, for instance, sparked a revival in public enthusiasm for chess as an example.

B. How do you prove women aren't comparably into porn? It's not like porn sites require you to place your genitals on the phone to gain access. If we're talking self-reporting surveys there, women can no more prove they're not comparably into porn than men can prove they prefer confident plus size women over insecure supermodels (something I believe men on anyway) or that they have the willpower to stay faithful to their wives even in the presence of homewreckers (something I'm not as sure I should believe them on).

Why are you dismissing the best evidence we have available in favor of arguing, with no evidence, that women watch porn as much as men?

Porn catered to men's longing for buxom women and women's apparent longing for guys with big dicks. If the latter wasn't a fair trade for the former, perhaps women shouldn't have spouted rhetoric on this matter that would have given a reasonable person the impression that's what they were looking for.

I think porn, as well as your net of information, has led you to place more emphasis on those things than many men or women do. And, with all due respect, I do not want to have a conversation to you or anyone else here about boobs and Bratwursts.

Stereotypes that have been perpetuated far more unmistakably by other media, and are covered under freedom of speech in each.

Which other media? And how do you think black feminist socialists would respond to said media?

You have no more right to stack the deck against stereotypes than to stack the deck in their favour.

Not dehumanizing and fetishizing people over the color their skin is better than dehumanizing and fetishizing them over the color of their skin.

Nothing about porn does this. We can acknowledge a woman as more than an object and still use porn as an expression of our fantasies involving them. Just as a woman can acknowledge a man as more than an object and still consider her preference for circumcised guys a factor, but not the only factor, in whether she condones infant circumcision. If anything, porn often portrays women as active participants in sex, as opposed to society's other conversations around sex which make women out to be so desired by men that she could just sit back and relax and the guy would still give it his all trying to pleasure her.

Again, this is something that has been studied and commented on extensively. An adult performer is not treated by audiences as a person in so far as they interact with his or her content, and, often, the manner in which audiences are invited to engage with the content is sexist, racist, or otherwise problematic.

Doesn't matter. The voting public has allowed sugar daddies to be completely unprosecutable, yet put johns in prison where they're getting raped by Bubba and slammed head-first against the wall by correctional officers until they bleed all over the floor, with no one wanting to hire them for anything when they get out. This is not just a difference of degree. This is a difference of kind.

It does when I'm articulating a radfem perspective.

The voting public have allowed porn to be mostly legal.

I would like one thread on prostitution where someone does not bring up prison rape.

Also, I'm not referring to feminism in particular; frankly I doubt feminism is definable; I'm referring to the voting public as a whole.

Well, that's not really something I was doing, so...

[Fahran]

One more for the pile.

Well, stop writing lines that could come from a play about Rasputin.

[Kashimura]

Lot of bans in the future if immaturity is the criterion. Tons of comedy, tons of media in general, children...

Everything should be family-friendly, so that we are safe and happy and it can lower down suicide rates.

Can we get some numbers on that? I don’t know whose suicide you think you’d be preventing, but it definitely wouldn’t be mine, should the time ever come.

[San Lumen]

I don't believe porn should be banned, but there should be more protections for sex workers. Many porn companies get away with some really disgusting, coercive shit.

What new protections are needed?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I don't believe porn should be banned, but there should be more protections for sex workers. Many porn companies get away with some really disgusting, coercive shit.

What new protections are needed?

Medical screening, healthcare benefits, unions…

[Fahran]

What new protections are needed?

Age-verification, profile-verification, workplace protections, collective bargaining, harsher laws against coercion and human trafficking, etc.

EDIT: Nana brought up several good ones as well. Medical screenings, health insurance, health-related industry regulations, recourse for victims of revenge porn or child porn, etc.

[The Pirateariat]

I refer you to the thoughts of the Harvard Mathematician, Los Alamos researcher, and inventor of the jello shot.

[Arval Va]

Genetically speaking, we're 97% rat and 70% single-celled amoeba. A little bit goes a long way.

Still closer to bonobos than to rats. Though given that rats get caught in the trap when they get greedy, we're not too different from rats either.

And again, it all comes down to the question of what the alternative to genetic reasoning even is.

For a start, we aren't bonobos.

[Alcala-Cordel]

I don't believe porn should be banned, but there should be more protections for sex workers. Many porn companies get away with some really disgusting, coercive shit.

What new protections are needed?

Protections against coercion and human trafficking, the right to organize, pay/quality of life benefits, rights to remove any content involving them, protection from discrimination in future careers, etc.

[San Lumen]

What new protections are needed?

Age-verification, profile-verification, workplace protections, collective bargaining, harsher laws against coercion and human trafficking, etc.

EDIT: Nana brought up several good ones as well. Medical screenings, health insurance, health-related industry regulations, recourse for victims of revenge porn or child porn, etc.

Age verification is already required I think. Any reputable studio will do it and have such records on file.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Age-verification, profile-verification, workplace protections, collective bargaining, harsher laws against coercion and human trafficking, etc.

EDIT: Nana brought up several good ones as well. Medical screenings, health insurance, health-related industry regulations, recourse for victims of revenge porn or child porn, etc.

Age verification is already required I think. Any reputable studio will do it and have such records on file.

Not all studios are reputable. Not all of them care about verifying age. And that’s just one of the regulations mentioned that are needed.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Age-verification, profile-verification, workplace protections, collective bargaining, harsher laws against coercion and human trafficking, etc.

EDIT: Nana brought up several good ones as well. Medical screenings, health insurance, health-related industry regulations, recourse for victims of revenge porn or child porn, etc.

Age verification is already required I think. Any reputable studio will do it and have such records on file.

Keyword being "reputable". There are so many sketchy ones out there.

[Torisakia]

Age verification is already required I think. Any reputable studio will do it and have such records on file.

Keyword being "reputable". There are so many sketchy ones out there.

I've never heard of a reputable porn studio in my life. They all do shady stuff. If we ban porn, we need to start by outlawing pornography studios.

[San Lumen]

Age verification is already required I think. Any reputable studio will do it and have such records on file.

Not all studios are reputable. Not all of them care about verifying age. And that’s just one of the regulations mentioned that are needed.

It’s already the law I think.