The Slow DeCentis

[Aggicificicerous]

"Nazis were not wrong about everything" is a statement you never need to make. You never, ever, ever have to hand it to the Nazis.

Also wait,]are you saying that the Nazis ideas about what to do to trans folks is OKAY????

1. Wrong, when sonething is right it is right. The moral character of the speaker has nothing to do with if a thing is a fact or not.

No I am not saying the naxis were right about trans folks. If you read what I wrote instead of jumping to conclusions you would have known that.

Nazis hated trans people because they regarded them as the antithesis of the ideal German citizen. This is a concept baked into Nazi ideology. So yes, the Nazis were wrong about trans people because they were Nazis.

[Stellar Colonies]

"Nazis were not wrong about everything" is a statement you never need to make. You never, ever, ever have to hand it to the Nazis.

Also wait,]are you saying that the Nazis ideas about what to do to trans folks is OKAY????

1. Wrong, when sonething is right it is right. The moral character of the speaker has nothing to do with if a thing is a fact or not.

No I am not saying the naxis were right about trans folks. If you read what I wrote instead of jumping to conclusions you would have known that.

In that case, could you elaborate on what you meant by "Nazis were not wrong about everything"?

[Ethel mermania]

1. Wrong, when sonething is right it is right. The moral character of the speaker has nothing to do with if a thing is a fact or not.

No I am not saying the naxis were right about trans folks. If you read what I wrote instead of jumping to conclusions you would have known that.

In that case, could you elaborate on what you meant by "Nazis were not wrong about everything"?

As I wrote earlier the nazis were the first to correlate smoking with lung cancer

[Gravlen]

In that case, could you elaborate on what you meant by "Nazis were not wrong about everything"?

As I wrote earlier the nazis were the first to correlate smoking with lung cancer

And what does that have to do with what's being debated?

Do you agree with Shavervia that research indicating the contrary should be burned and the researchers murdered? If not, what you said was a completely irrelevant non sequitur which only served to imply that you supported the burning of books owned by jewish researchers.

[Ifreann]

In that case, could you elaborate on what you meant by "Nazis were not wrong about everything"?

As I wrote earlier the nazis were the first to correlate smoking with lung cancer

Fun fact about that: No they weren't. That link had been observed since the 1700s, and anti-smoking sentiments existed in Germany for as long as smoking did. Prussia banned smoking in public in 1840. The German Empire had anti-tobacco organisations in the early 1900s. The Weimar Republic was already at the forefront of research into the health effects of smoking tobacco in the 1920s. The researcher who coined the term "passive smoking", as in second-hand smoking, was purged from his position by the Nazis because he was a social democrat activist. Research did continue under the Nazis, not least because of Hitler's personal dislike of tobacco, but they were not unique pioneers in this field.

But hey, never mind that. Just because the Nazis weren't the first to link cigarette smoking to cancer doesn't mean we shouldn't give serious consideration to the proposal that trans people are sexual degenerates who should be put to death lest their vile perversions destroy the Aryan race. It would be juvenile for us to dismiss this idea as obvious bullshit. Maybe the Nazis were right about there being certain groups of people, certain demographics, who ought to just be eradicated for the good of society. We must debate this in the marketplace of ideas. Maybe the Holocaust was good, actually. Let us discuss this like rational adults.

[Ryemarch]

It's called peer review and that's a good thing.

Very weird to roll up and start supporting the Nazis.

"Start"? Nothing new about this from Shavervia.

[Arval Va]

they had to first read the books before they burned them, so I disagree.

That's not how these things work. Ever heard of Salman Rushdie?

Having read current studies on that topic, and assuming older studies had less/faulty evidence relative to modern ones, then burning them was objectively the most productive thing they could have ever done.

Older studies were less faulty? Gib source.

[Necroghastia]

Just you using the term "TIM" is a massive red flag that suggests you are transphobic and politically sympathetic to fascists.

see, why use labels when others will use them for you

what does this nonsense even meeaaaan lmao

They burned the books that didn't coincide with their little Aryan Übermensch Lebensraum beliefs.

They didn't peer review anything.

they had to first read the books before they burned them, so I disagree.

No they didn't, lol.

Having read current studies on that topic, and assuming older studies had less/faulty evidence relative to modern ones, then burning them was objectively the most productive thing they could have ever done.

See, you're judging them without having read them right now.

These studies now (today) are so poor, I genuinely feel bad for TIM who are forced to pedal this anti-intellectual non-sense. We need at least another century before definitive statements on transitioning can be made, and more importantly, accepted by the general public.

Shavervia said, for absolutely no logical reason whatsoever and offering no evidence to back their miserable excuse for a point.

[Shavervia]

It's called peer review and that's a good thing.

Very weird to roll up and start supporting the Nazis.

is it more or less weird to randomly explode into a rant about nazis in a DeSantis topic? But, since the topic was brought up I see no reason why we can't engage in it for a bit (without going too far off topic)

"Nazis were not wrong about everything" is a statement you never need to make. You never, ever, ever have to hand it to the Nazis.

Also wait, are you saying that the Nazis ideas about what to do to trans folks is OKAY????

you do not, under any circumstances, 'gotta hand it to them'

I just came out in favor of burning books (not really, outdated junk science) but the both of you sound really anti-intellectual right now.

[. . .] I whouldn't waste my time responding. But here we are.

Of course they didn't have to read them. Reading any of the 20 - 25,000 books would expose them to the undeutschen Geist of the works. Why read a book written by a Jew?

I understand what you are saying, allow me to clarify:

SOMEONE had to have read it, obviously that someone wasn't the whole of Germany or even Nazis. Obviously, they also burned it specifically because they didn't want that research accessible to everyone. My point is, who cares; it was junk science deserving of the flame.

I've talked with many TIMs, TIFs, and Trans Youth. During our discussions, the vast majority of sources are from the 00s. If you understand anything about changes done to the DSM and how few of these people exist, then you are simply not surprised by the current inadequate research (let alone decades old junk science).

[1] what does this nonsense even meeaaaan lmao

[2] See, you're judging them without having read them right now.

[3] Shavervia said, for absolutely no logical reason whatsoever and offering no evidence to back their miserable excuse for a point.

1. it is a nonsensical statement.

2-3. In my defense, they burned some of it out of existence. Though considering the changes to definitions and labeling of sex/gender diaspora in the DSM from v3 to v5, I think that studies with significantly less sample sizes are obviously just going to be garbage compared to what we have now (I think this is a safe assumption on my part, but I understand that from purely logical standpoint I could be wrong).

[The Great Nevada Overlord]

I understand what you are saying, allow me to clarify:

SOMEONE had to have read it, obviously that someone wasn't the whole of Germany or even Nazis. Obviously, they also burned it specifically because they didn't want that research accessible to everyone. My point is, who cares; it was junk science deserving of the flame.

They burned the books because it proved that Transgenders weren't pedophilic underlings. That was one of the Nazis big things. The hatred of Homosexuality, Transsexuality, Judaism, Slavs etc was critical to the beliefs of Nazism.

They didn't burn books because they were "bad science", Nazi science was crap. Have you looked at the Nazi race map? Or what they honestly believed?

The Nazi sciences of Social Darwinism or Eugenics were absurd and frankly insane.

[Necroghastia]

Very weird to roll up and start supporting the Nazis.

is it more or less weird to randomly explode into a rant about nazis in a DeSantis topic? But, since the topic was brought up I see no reason why we can't engage in it for a bit (without going too far off topic)

There's nothing "random" about it, there are obvious parallels between the Nazis' and the GOP's treatment of LGBT people.

you do not, under any circumstances, 'gotta hand it to them'

I just came out in favor of burning books (not really, outdated junk science) but the both of you sound really anti-intellectual right now.

Anti-intellectual... coming from the guy who supports burning research because he deems it "junk science" solely based on... well, nothing. Lol.

[. . .] I whouldn't waste my time responding. But here we are.

Of course they didn't have to read them. Reading any of the 20 - 25,000 books would expose them to the undeutschen Geist of the works. Why read a book written by a Jew?

I understand what you are saying, allow me to clarify:

SOMEONE had to have read it, obviously that someone wasn't the whole of Germany or even Nazis. Obviously, they also burned it specifically because they didn't want that research accessible to everyone.

Yeah, it's almost like the Nazis were trying to cause a moral panic and wanted to stamp out anything to the contrary.

My point is, who cares; it was junk science deserving of the flame.

What made it "junk science," the fact that it said trans people weren't freaks?

I've talked with many TIMs, TIFs, and Trans Youth.

Seriously dude what is with the "TIM/TIF" nonsense

During our discussions, the vast majority of sources are from the 00s. If you understand anything about changes done to the DSM and how few of these people exist, then you are simply not surprised by the current inadequate research (let alone decades old junk science).

Here you go again, asserting things as inadequate with no backing as to why, and complaining about "decades old junk science" when that is precisely what you are casting your lot in with.

[1] what does this nonsense even meeaaaan lmao

[2] See, you're judging them without having read them right now.

[3] Shavervia said, for absolutely no logical reason whatsoever and offering no evidence to back their miserable excuse for a point.

1. it is a nonsensical statement.

Yes, I'm aware, which is why I'm asking what the point is of you saying it.

2-3. In my defense, they burned some of it out of existence. Though considering the changes to definitions and labeling of sex/gender diaspora in the DSM from v3 to v5, I think that studies with significantly less sample sizes are obviously just going to be garbage compared to what we have now (I think this is a safe assumption on my part, but I understand that from purely logical standpoint I could be wrong).

What a non-response.

[Gravlen]

[. . .] I whouldn't waste my time responding. But here we are.

Of course they didn't have to read them. Reading any of the 20 - 25,000 books would expose them to the undeutschen Geist of the works. Why read a book written by a Jew?

I understand what you are saying, allow me to clarify:

SOMEONE had to have read it, obviously that someone wasn't the whole of Germany or even Nazis.

This makes no sense. If people read it and thought it was the best scientific papers they'd ever read, the Nazis still burned it because it was owned by a jew. That's what you're celebrating and feebly atempting to justify.

Obviously, they also burned it specifically because they didn't want that research accessible to everyone. My point is, who cares; it was junk science deserving of the flame.

Your point is unsubstantiated bunk. I doubt you have any idea of what was burned, but you still would cheer it on.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Florida resident here. I do not agree with DeSantis’s actions.

[The Black Forrest]

they had to first read the books before they burned them, so I disagree.

Actually no; there is a high probability they didn’t. Back when they started censoring LGBTQ books in schools and in some cases local libraries; I remember a reporter asking if a person read any of the books. Person’s response what basically “why would I read such filth?”

Having read current studies on that topic, and assuming older studies had less/faulty evidence relative to modern ones, then burning them was objectively the most productive thing they could have ever done.

These studies now (today) are so poor, I genuinely feel bad for TIM who are forced to pedal this anti-intellectual non-sense. We need at least another century before definitive statements on transitioning can be made, and more importantly, accepted by the general public.

Hah. No you don’t. What studies do you claim to have read?

[Jellian Federation]

I think it’s telling we are talking about nazis in the Ron desantis thread.

[The Black Forrest]

Seriously dude what is with the "TIM/TIF" nonsense

I thought he was going to talk about Tim the Enchanter; I was disappointed.

[Shavervia]

I think it’s telling we are talking about nazis in the Ron desantis thread.

It's off topic, I will engage in it no longer

There is no correlation to DeSantis and the GOP with Hitler and the Nazis, these are just emotional insults; can we take our chill pills for a moment and acknowledge that DeSantis is a good guy who means well along with the GOP who are our friends and noble opposition.

[Jellian Federation]

I think it’s telling we are talking about nazis in the Ron desantis thread.

It's off topic, I will engage in it no longer

There is no correlation to DeSantis and the GOP with Hitler and the Nazis, these are just emotional insults; can we take our chill pills for a moment and acknowledge that DeSantis is a good guy who means well along with the GOP who are our friends and noble opposition.

I can’t tell if you are joking or not.

Desantis is a big time bully.
A wannabe little dictator.

He has gone after apolitical staff for telling the inconvenient truth.
He has attacked various minorities,
He has abused his power and abused people.
He has tried to create an environment of fear.

He is probably one of the biggest modern politicians that is getting close to nazisim.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

Except the comparison between social democrats and fascists goes far beyond just "they support each-other, somewhat". I won't waste my time but the fact that they're both posed as "alternatives" to capitalism and communism, are fervently anti-communist, are collectivist and support corporatism is more than enough similarities to spark concern.

Very funny, I see you still neglect critical reading skills. I shall explain to you again, perhaps this time you will understand.
The Strasserists were not fascists- I explained why. They were economically and politically socialist, believed in a dictatorship of the proletariat, in the abolition of private property and the destruction of the market. This is incompatible with fascism. Fascism, again- is the ultimate class dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Strasserism explicitly states that it wishes to destroy the bourgeoisie and to uplift "the proletariat".
Like I said, the only thing the Strasserists actually shared in common with their "Nazi brethren" was the fact that they were both authoritarian (the Nazis were totalitarian), were antisemitic (the Strasserists to a far, far lesser degree) and their Pan-German attitude. They also rejected the Fuehrerprinzip and a lot of the defining traits of Nazism.

Strasserism actually shares more in common with the state socialism of the Soviet Union under Stalin than it does with Nazism.

I feel the need to add that Strasserism is a split off of Nazism, in the same way that Nazism was a split off of Fascism.

By playing twelve degrees of separation, Strasserism IS Fascism, because Strasserism is BASED off of the ideals of Nazism, which were, in and of itself, BASED off of Fascism.

Nazism wasn't based entirely on fascism. The ideology of Nazism has more in common with the idea of Prussian socialism, the "volksgemeinschaft"- which while related to fascism did not spawn out of it, and the likes.
I would also like to point out that Strasserism is not just a "split off" of Nazism. The two are almost entirely unrelated and developed independently of one another- as I mentioned previously Strasserism and National Socialism shared virtually nothing in common aside from their anti-semitism, authoritarianism (where National Socialism advocated for a totalitarian police state) and pan-Germanism.

An ideology which is economically socialist- that is- believes in the abolition of private property and workers owning the means of production (There's more but, whatever)- is socialist, no matter how racist or sexist or whatever it is. Without any bias, the Strasserists were socialists, because fascism is the opposite of socialism.
One cannot be fascist- that is support the ultimate dictatorship of the bourgeoisie where the state rules the proletariat with an absolute iron fist and rejects any attempt of workers' control over the government with a fake mask of "class collaboration" and also be socialist with the dictatorship of the proletariat and class conflict of socialism. The Strasserists supported the latter- they were indisputably Marxist.

[El Lazaro]

I feel the need to add that Strasserism is a split off of Nazism, in the same way that Nazism was a split off of Fascism.

By playing twelve degrees of separation, Strasserism IS Fascism, because Strasserism is BASED off of the ideals of Nazism, which were, in and of itself, BASED off of Fascism.

Nazism wasn't based entirely on fascism. The ideology of Nazism has more in common with the idea of Prussian socialism, the "volksgemeinschaft"- which while related to fascism did not spawn out of it, and the likes.
I would also like to point out that Strasserism is not just a "split off" of Nazism. The two are almost entirely unrelated and developed independently of one another- as I mentioned previously Strasserism and National Socialism shared virtually nothing in common aside from their anti-semitism, authoritarianism (where National Socialism advocated for a totalitarian police state) and pan-Germanism.

An ideology which is economically socialist- that is- believes in the abolition of private property and workers owning the means of production (There's more but, whatever)- is socialist, no matter how racist or sexist or whatever it is. Without any bias, the Strasserists were socialists, because fascism is the opposite of socialism.
One cannot be fascist- that is support the ultimate dictatorship of the bourgeoisie where the state rules the proletariat with an absolute iron fist and rejects any attempt of workers' control over the government with a fake mask of "class collaboration" and also be socialist with the dictatorship of the proletariat and class conflict of socialism. The Strasserists supported the latter- they were indisputably Marxist.

You’re digging a deeper grave for yourself and your fascist friends

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

Nazism wasn't based entirely on fascism. The ideology of Nazism has more in common with the idea of Prussian socialism, the "volksgemeinschaft"- which while related to fascism did not spawn out of it, and the likes.
I would also like to point out that Strasserism is not just a "split off" of Nazism. The two are almost entirely unrelated and developed independently of one another- as I mentioned previously Strasserism and National Socialism shared virtually nothing in common aside from their anti-semitism, authoritarianism (where National Socialism advocated for a totalitarian police state) and pan-Germanism.

An ideology which is economically socialist- that is- believes in the abolition of private property and workers owning the means of production (There's more but, whatever)- is socialist, no matter how racist or sexist or whatever it is. Without any bias, the Strasserists were socialists, because fascism is the opposite of socialism.
One cannot be fascist- that is support the ultimate dictatorship of the bourgeoisie where the state rules the proletariat with an absolute iron fist and rejects any attempt of workers' control over the government with a fake mask of "class collaboration" and also be socialist with the dictatorship of the proletariat and class conflict of socialism. The Strasserists supported the latter- they were indisputably Marxist.

You’re digging a deeper grave for yourself and your fascist friends

El Lazaro, please! It is time to take your medicine. These "boogeymen" you speak of... these "fascists", they haunt your every waking moment!

[El Lazaro]

You’re digging a deeper grave for yourself and your fascist friends

El Lazaro, please! It is time to take your medicine. These "boogeymen" you speak of... these "fascists", they haunt your every waking moment!

Calling avowed Nazis “fascists” is not “schizo” as you would like to believe.

[Jellian Federation]

You’re digging a deeper grave for yourself and your fascist friends

El Lazaro, please! It is time to take your medicine. These "boogeymen" you speak of... these "fascists", they haunt your every waking moment!

If anyone is going to it ought to be them

[La Xinga]

You’re digging a deeper grave for yourself and your fascist friends

El Lazaro, please! It is time to take your medicine. These "boogeymen" you speak of... these "fascists", they haunt your every waking moment!

Do you rather mean........freemasons?

/ignorethispost

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

El Lazaro, please! It is time to take your medicine. These "boogeymen" you speak of... these "fascists", they haunt your every waking moment!

Calling avowed Nazis “fascists” is not “schizo” as you would like to believe.

El Lazaro, buddy, buddy. I think I explained in a large, very clearly defined and worded post, riiiight up there, which explained why the idea that the Strasserists- just because they are classified as "Nazis"- were fascist, is incorrect, based on their political beliefs, their economic ideals, and the fact that their beliefs directly contradicted with the most basic definition of fascism.

But once again, you are incapable of actually coming up with any sensible argument against me, so as always you have to resort to... well, the usual. FASCIST! GRRRAWRGH!!