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SAG-AFTRA(actors) Strike

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SAG-AFTRA(actors) Strike

Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon May 01, 2023 11:01 pm

The Writers Guild of America and the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers have failed to come to an agreement.Apparently they aren't even close, so this might be a long one.

Illuminating members on what big difference were between what the WGA was asking for and what they say the studios were putting on the table, the guild revealed tonight just how truly far apart the two sides were up until the end of talks on the money and the future. “WGA proposals would gain writers approximately $429 million per year; AMPTP’s offer is approximately $86 million per year, 48% of which is from the minimums increase,” stated the guild.

On the topic of AI, the WGA wanted to “regulate use of artificial intelligence on MBA covered projects: AI can’t write or rewrite literary material; can’t be used as source material; and MBA-covered material can’t be used to train AI.” The response from the studios was a rejection of the WGA’s proposal, and then a counter offer of “annual meetings to discuss advancements in technology.”


Unless you're a huge fan of late night talk shows which will shutdown immediately it would take a while for this to marginally effect you. We are drowning in content, but also this entire machine is built on continuous content.

Most shows on the traditional schedule are wrapping or just wrapped their seasons. The big activity is pilots, so a whole lot of pilots are about to get smothered in their sleep, sort of akin to what happen in 2007, the last writer's strike that lasted 100 days.

IATSE, the largest union, the DGA, and the Teamsters are supporting the strike. I talked to some IATSE friends, they have a no strike clause BUT...if they have to cross a picket line they can refuse to do so.

Despite the rise in content, writers have been squeezed partially from something they kinda gave up on in the last strike regarding streaming content. Writers have been asked to do more for less. All those 10 episode shows tend to not have a writers room on top of a shorter window for being staffed.

As you can probably surmise by the post so far, I'm on the WGA's side. Part of the reason all the other unions involved with production are supporting this, because they've been squeezed as well. If you've been dwelling in fandoom (god I love that term) you might have heard people griping about the diminishing quality in effects for leading billion dollar franchises. They've been trying to 'pants it' (ie going by the seat of one's pants) the stories and not giving people in FX (covered by IATSE) enough time or enough budget to get the job done. Over the last two years this whole town has been frazzled. People are holding themselves up with caffeine and spite. Meanwhile the cost of living here continues to rise. Atlanta and Vancouver are not immune to it either.

I was disappointed by IATSE giving in when they did, they could have gotten a better deal but it was complicated. I hope this doesn't last too long, but I do hope they get what they came for.

You can comment on the strike or try to be super cool and talk about how you don't watch things and 'shows these days suck anyway' 'cause you're sooooo cool. You're choice.
Last edited by Cannot think of a name on Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Mon May 01, 2023 11:13 pm

Didn't the last time they were on strike help give rise to reality TV?
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon May 01, 2023 11:29 pm

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:Didn't the last time they were on strike help give rise to reality TV?

Popular myth, but no. That had been building long before the Writer's Strike. Only marginally more reality shows were greenlit than were already gonna be. By 2007 it was in full swing.

The real culprit is a change in the rules as part of the Telecommunications Act of 1996. I'll try not to get bogged down in details, but essentially the change was in regards to how much of the programing the actual network could own. How it normally works (or worked) was a production company made the show (if you're old, those are the 'Sit Ubu, sit' or the paper being ripped from the typewriter to form a logo...more modern, that little cartoon of the 'Bad Robot' for Bad Robot). The network would buy that show, but not for as much as it cost to make.

The way the production companies made the rest of the money is by syndication. But in order to get syndicated you had to reach a threshold, 100 episodes.

EDIT to add: When you became a show as big as Friends, or Seinfeld, or The Office, the tables turn. The production company doesn't need the network as bad as the network needs the show, so they get to demand way more money and start making money per episode before syndication. /edit

The Telecommunication Act of 1996 made it so that networks could 'own' more of their own content. They could then just make it for what they were willing to pay and not have to worry about syndication to get their money back. Something reality shows are perfect for. Also with only a single or handful of hosts, you don't end up with an ensemble getting large salaries like the million dollar per episode contracts for Friends, notoriously.

But, the cheapness of reality shows and-and this is something people have to come to terms with-their popularity had already begun. You might remember a show called The Real World.

But the big ones, the ones that are most notorious, and started the ball really going were long before the 2007 writer's strike (which tried to get reality show writers, called 'associate producers' to avoid writers agreements, under the guild. Didn't work). Survivor first aired in 2000. The Osbornes in 2002. American Idol, 2002. The Bachelor? 2002. Hell, even Joe Millionaire, 2003. Simple Life, 2003. Surreal Life 2003.

The reality show was already full steam by the time the writer's strike came along.
Last edited by Cannot think of a name on Mon May 01, 2023 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Mon May 01, 2023 11:39 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:Didn't the last time they were on strike help give rise to reality TV?

Popular myth, but no.

* SNIP *

.


Interesting read. I wish the writers luck in their action. Writing to order for a deadline is hard.
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Postby Ameriganastan » Tue May 02, 2023 12:08 am

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:Interesting read. I wish the writers luck in their action. Writing to order for a deadline is hard.

Oh, screw them. The lazy bastards. This is why I'm anti-union. If you ask me, if you refuse to do the job you're getting paid for, they should be allowed to fire your ass. Especially if it fucks with my TV.
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Tue May 02, 2023 12:11 am

Replace them with ChatGPT.
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue May 02, 2023 12:12 am

Well then...
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Tue May 02, 2023 12:32 am

I don't watch things and shows these days suck anyway 'cause I'm sooooo cool. ;p

In all seriousness, how the creative industry treats its labour force is atrocious. I hope the unions do well in this strike, even though I don't agree with every part of their agenda.
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Postby Neu California » Tue May 02, 2023 12:36 am

Ameriganastan wrote:
Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:Interesting read. I wish the writers luck in their action. Writing to order for a deadline is hard.

Oh, screw them. The lazy bastards. This is why I'm anti-union. If you ask me, if you refuse to do the job you're getting paid for, they should be allowed to fire your ass. Especially if it fucks with my TV.

So, when they can't make enough to live on in their career, they should just suck it up? The workers have rights too, after all, and the companies need them just as much as (if not more than) they need the companies.
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Postby Jellian Federation » Tue May 02, 2023 12:38 am

Personally, I will happily forgo new creations until the creators get what they deserve.


This is how unions are supposed to work.
(I don’t know if a guild is technically a union but you know what I mean, collective action capitalist style)
Great to see it in action.
Last edited by Jellian Federation on Tue May 02, 2023 12:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue May 02, 2023 12:51 am

Jellian Federation wrote:Personally, I will happily forgo new creations until the creators get what they deserve.


This is how unions are supposed to work.
(I don’t know if a guild is technically a union but you know what I mean, collective action capitalist style)
Great to see it in action.

Because writers are only hired temporarally employed at every point they negotiate (through this contract with the signatory companies) on the writer's behalf in their individual contracts by agreed minimums etc.

A guild negotiates that way where a union tends to be workers and owners.

This is actually a thing I didn't know. I was about to give a playful answer but thought, "maybe there is a difference" and looked it up at the last second.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Postby Ameriganastan » Tue May 02, 2023 1:12 am

Neu California wrote:
Ameriganastan wrote:Oh, screw them. The lazy bastards. This is why I'm anti-union. If you ask me, if you refuse to do the job you're getting paid for, they should be allowed to fire your ass. Especially if it fucks with my TV.

So, when they can't make enough to live on in their career, they should just suck it up? The workers have rights too, after all, and the companies need them just as much as (if not more than) they need the companies.

Hey, I hate my job. But I'm not gonna throw a fit and refuse to do it because I'm not getting treated like a king. Also, pretty sure they're making plenty of money. They're freaking Hollywood writers. They ain't making minimum wage out there.
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Edward Richtofen wrote:Ameri's so tough that he criticized an Insane Asylum and was promptly let out

Ameri does the impossible.
Fire the Ameri.
Sinovet wrote:Ameri's like Honey badger. He don't give a fuck.

Krazakistan wrote: He is a force of negativity for the sake of negativity

Onocarcass wrote:Trying to change Ameri, is like trying to drag a 2 ton block of lead with your d**k.

Immoren wrote:When Ameri says something is shit it's good and when Ameri says some thing is good it's great. *nods*

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Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue May 02, 2023 1:12 am

Ameriganastan wrote:
Neu California wrote:So, when they can't make enough to live on in their career, they should just suck it up? The workers have rights too, after all, and the companies need them just as much as (if not more than) they need the companies.

Hey, I hate my job. But I'm not gonna throw a fit and refuse to do it because I'm not getting treated like a king. Also, pretty sure they're making plenty of money. They're freaking Hollywood writers. They ain't making minimum wage out there.

oh my sweet summer child...
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Tue May 02, 2023 1:25 am

I certainly hope the screenwriters get as many benefits from the strike as possible. It's about time entertainment companies learn prestige is never an excuse to screw people over.
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue May 02, 2023 1:39 am

Alcala-Cordel wrote:I certainly hope the screenwriters get as many benefits from the strike as possible. It's about time entertainment companies learn prestige is never an excuse to screw people over.

Oh that sounds like you know someone or are in the industry, because I've heard a variation of that pitch a lot. It's the "paid in exposure" of trying to cheap you out. I don't actually read my NDAs, I just look for my favorite line, "in perpetuity throughout the universe" and then sign it because it's part of a small novel of start paperwork you have to do every time so I won't name the show, but it was a very popular show that kept saying "Having this on your resume will be worth it..." That credit doesn't even impress non-industry people. After a while it kinda becomes clear that it didn't make me a-list crew, it said 'this chump will work for peanuts if you blow smoke up his ass...' The only satisfaction that i got was the PA that kept big timing everyone was shocked when the show came back around and I didn't want to work it because it was a garbage rate. Like dude, if you're so big time why you taking this small time rate and shitty conditions?
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Tue May 02, 2023 2:07 am

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:I certainly hope the screenwriters get as many benefits from the strike as possible. It's about time entertainment companies learn prestige is never an excuse to screw people over.

Oh that sounds like you know someone or are in the industry, because I've heard a variation of that pitch a lot. It's the "paid in exposure" of trying to cheap you out. I don't actually read my NDAs, I just look for my favorite line, "in perpetuity throughout the universe" and then sign it because it's part of a small novel of start paperwork you have to do every time so I won't name the show, but it was a very popular show that kept saying "Having this on your resume will be worth it..." That credit doesn't even impress non-industry people. After a while it kinda becomes clear that it didn't make me a-list crew, it said 'this chump will work for peanuts if you blow smoke up his ass...' The only satisfaction that i got was the PA that kept big timing everyone was shocked when the show came back around and I didn't want to work it because it was a garbage rate. Like dude, if you're so big time why you taking this small time rate and shitty conditions?

I don't have any personal connections to the industry, but I pay close attention to corporate behavior and unions. Academic institutions, mass media, and big tech pull this bullshit with their workers constantly. It's a terrible cycle of dipping into the constant supply of young people looking to do what they're passionate about, burning them out for garbage pay, and replacing them once they realize it probably won't pay off later. It's a good thing that unions can hold those institutions somewhat accountable, even if there are internal struggles.
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Postby Kerwa » Tue May 02, 2023 5:00 am

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:Replace them with ChatGPT.


Predictable response.

Television is a dying industry anyway.

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Postby Ifreann » Tue May 02, 2023 5:01 am

When the union's inspiration through the worker's blood shall run, there can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun.
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Postby Des-Bal » Tue May 02, 2023 7:48 am

Ifreann wrote:When the union's inspiration through the worker's blood shall run, there can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun.

Now I'm going to laugh if they get replaced by AI
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Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Tue May 02, 2023 7:53 am

I don't think AI will be writing comedy scripts any time soon. Writing a good joke is something AI will find near impossible.
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue May 02, 2023 8:05 am

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:I don't think AI will be writing comedy scripts any time soon. Writing a good joke is something AI will find near impossible.


James Corden confirmed to be an AI.
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Postby Eternal Algerstonia » Tue May 02, 2023 8:12 am

suppress the strike at all costs, i cannot take any more MCU or star wars delays

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Postby Regnum Alea Spaceflee » Tue May 02, 2023 8:15 am

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:I don't think AI will be writing comedy scripts any time soon. Writing a good joke is something AI will find near impossible.

Comedy is incredibly nuanced, as it is always changing and people have their own kind of comedy.
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue May 02, 2023 8:19 am

Eternal Algerstonia wrote:suppress the strike at all costs, i cannot take any more MCU or star wars delays

Maybe it just gives the fx folks time to actually finish.

Franchises need to bring anticipation back.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Postby Ifreann » Tue May 02, 2023 8:32 am

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:I don't think AI will be writing comedy scripts any time soon. Writing a good joke is something AI will find near impossible.

The concern isn't that AI will be writing scripts, but that writers will have their work stolen to train AIs and then be contracted at a rate of peanuts to fix up the resulting AI generated slop.
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