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Is safety or freedom better?

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Floofybit
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Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:03 am

The Vooperian Union wrote:
Floofybit wrote:The pain seldom compares to the pain of gunshots and alcohol poisoning

The pain of a lack of freedom is worse.

Objectively wrong
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Safety & Equality > Freedom
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Terra dei Cittadini
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Ex-Nation

Postby Terra dei Cittadini » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:05 am

Socially, liberal freedom matters more, as civil rights matter most.

Economically, interventionism is key to ensure people are not harmed by corporations and to ensure the economy is equitable and efficient.
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Floofybit
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:06 am

In a perfect society, murder, including most abortion, would be nonexistent. People would live long hundred year peaceful lives
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Safety & Equality > Freedom
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The Vooperian Union
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Founded: Dec 11, 2022
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Vooperian Union » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:12 am

Floofybit wrote:
The Vooperian Union wrote:Yes. The state is a plague that must be abolished.

Why? Do you really want anarchy?

Yea, I'm a makhnovist; a branch of anarcho-communism.
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Wonglan Souriberieistan
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Founded: Apr 11, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Wonglan Souriberieistan » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:15 am

Safety is objectively better; harsh control over rights is far better than death. No agruments.

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The Vooperian Union
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Founded: Dec 11, 2022
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Vooperian Union » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:16 am

Wonglan Souriberieistan wrote:Safety is objectively better; harsh control over rights is far better than death. No agruments.

Death is preferable to oppression. No arguments.
Last edited by The Vooperian Union on Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome to the timeline I’m writing!
I’m gonna slowly writing an althistory timeline for Poland starting in 1912, slowly evolving into a Sci-Fi space empire. This is gonna take a while, so be patient. CURRENT YEAR: 1916
NS stats given a nice cup of tea and asked to have a good day, but not come back.
You may know me, you may not, but I ALWAYS COME BACK.
Factbooks finally canon!
No, I won't stop trying to turn people into furries.
AnCom genderflux transfem cat furry who is also aroace. My gender is TECHNICALLY girlflux, but I prefer the term femflux. Pronouns are She/Thon.
I WILL take your pronouns. I will NOT give them back.
Pronouns stolen: 1x He/Him, 1x They/Them.
I am a lightbulb nerd. Ask me your lightbulb related questions.

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Ifreann
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Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:20 am

People are not safe when they are not free.
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Is there aught we hold in common with the greedy parasite,
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Paddy O Fernature
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Paddy O Fernature » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:23 am

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -TJ

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The Remnant of James
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Founded: Jul 15, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby The Remnant of James » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:23 am

Neither is *better*, just like most things, a philosophical construct isn't good or bad, but it's how it's utilized that makes the difference.
Freedom of the press to discuss and critique politics? Good.
Freedom to intentionally lie and mislead the public about what is happening in politics? Bad.
Freedom to believe certain things religiously and practice your beliefs? Good.
Freedom to use those beliefs to harm other people or treat them poorly? Bad.
Safety from violent crime through a structured legal and emergency system? Good.
Safety of criminals who use that system to protect their interests or harm others? Bad.
Safety of individuals traveling both nationally and internationally, and protection of natural resources by regulating imports and travel? Good.
Safety of individuals who use that to manipulate markets and control prices, or to keep out people they deem undesirable? Bad.

But expecting people to have a nuanced take on the internet for anything these days is stupid, so why bother

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Floofybit
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Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:25 am

People cannot be free if they are not safe
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Anti: Capitalism, Liberalism, Abortion, Anarchy, Inequality, Crime, Drugs, Guns, Violence, Fruit-Haters
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Safety & Equality > Freedom
If I CTE hold a funeral because I'm dead :)
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The Vooperian Union
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Founded: Dec 11, 2022
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Vooperian Union » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:25 am

The Remnant of James wrote:Neither is *better*, just like most things, a philosophical construct isn't good or bad, but it's how it's utilized that makes the difference.
Freedom of the press to discuss and critique politics? Good.
Freedom to intentionally lie and mislead the public about what is happening in politics? Bad.
Freedom to believe certain things religiously and practice your beliefs? Good.
Freedom to use those beliefs to harm other people or treat them poorly? Bad.
Safety from violent crime through a structured legal and emergency system? Good.
Safety of criminals who use that system to protect their interests or harm others? Bad.
Safety of individuals traveling both nationally and internationally, and protection of natural resources by regulating imports and travel? Good.
Safety of individuals who use that to manipulate markets and control prices, or to keep out people they deem undesirable? Bad.

But expecting people to have a nuanced take on the internet for anything these days is stupid, so why bother

I'm an anarchist, and I'm talking about freedom and safety as obscure concepts.
Last edited by The Vooperian Union on Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome to the timeline I’m writing!
I’m gonna slowly writing an althistory timeline for Poland starting in 1912, slowly evolving into a Sci-Fi space empire. This is gonna take a while, so be patient. CURRENT YEAR: 1916
NS stats given a nice cup of tea and asked to have a good day, but not come back.
You may know me, you may not, but I ALWAYS COME BACK.
Factbooks finally canon!
No, I won't stop trying to turn people into furries.
AnCom genderflux transfem cat furry who is also aroace. My gender is TECHNICALLY girlflux, but I prefer the term femflux. Pronouns are She/Thon.
I WILL take your pronouns. I will NOT give them back.
Pronouns stolen: 1x He/Him, 1x They/Them.
I am a lightbulb nerd. Ask me your lightbulb related questions.

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The Remnant of James
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Founded: Jul 15, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby The Remnant of James » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:27 am

Floofybit wrote:People cannot be free if they are not safe

The Vooperian Union wrote:I'm an anarchist.


Ladies and gentlemen, my point made for me

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Floofybit
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Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:28 am

The Vooperian Union wrote:
Wonglan Souriberieistan wrote:Safety is objectively better; harsh control over rights is far better than death. No agruments.

Death is preferable to oppression. No arguments.

Oppression is preferable to death.
Compass: Northwest
Reformative Authoritarian Pacifist
Pro: Socialism, Authoritarianism, The Right To Life, Environment, Public Services, Government, Equity and Equality, Surveillance, Police, Religion, Pacifism, Fruit
Anti: Capitalism, Liberalism, Abortion, Anarchy, Inequality, Crime, Drugs, Guns, Violence, Fruit-Haters
Religious ace male floof who really loves fruit.
Broadcasting From Foxlington
Safety & Equality > Freedom
If I CTE hold a funeral because I'm dead :)
CHRISTMAS!!!!! (⁠*⁠ノ⁠・⁠ω⁠・⁠)⁠ノ⁠♫
Telegram me your favourite colour, I'm doing a survey

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Floofybit
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Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:31 am

The Vooperian Union wrote:
Floofybit wrote:Why? Do you really want anarchy?

Yea, I'm a makhnovist; a branch of anarcho-communism.

That's rather selfish of you. Survival of the fittest kills the weak, and as a physically challenged person, I like life
Compass: Northwest
Reformative Authoritarian Pacifist
Pro: Socialism, Authoritarianism, The Right To Life, Environment, Public Services, Government, Equity and Equality, Surveillance, Police, Religion, Pacifism, Fruit
Anti: Capitalism, Liberalism, Abortion, Anarchy, Inequality, Crime, Drugs, Guns, Violence, Fruit-Haters
Religious ace male floof who really loves fruit.
Broadcasting From Foxlington
Safety & Equality > Freedom
If I CTE hold a funeral because I'm dead :)
CHRISTMAS!!!!! (⁠*⁠ノ⁠・⁠ω⁠・⁠)⁠ノ⁠♫
Telegram me your favourite colour, I'm doing a survey

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:31 am

Floofybit wrote:People cannot be free if they are not safe

Amusing comment to make in between describing the cells you want to lock people in if they dare drink a beer.
He/Him
Is there aught we hold in common with the greedy parasite,
Who would lash us into serfdom and oppress us with his might?
Is there anything left to us but to organise and fight?
For the union makes us strong.

Saoirse don Phalaistín

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The Vooperian Union
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Founded: Dec 11, 2022
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Vooperian Union » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:32 am

Floofybit wrote:
The Vooperian Union wrote:Yea, I'm a makhnovist; a branch of anarcho-communism.

That's rather selfish of you. Survival of the fittest kills the weak, and as a physically challenged person, I like life

What about anarchy makes you thnk I like survival of the fittest?
Welcome to the timeline I’m writing!
I’m gonna slowly writing an althistory timeline for Poland starting in 1912, slowly evolving into a Sci-Fi space empire. This is gonna take a while, so be patient. CURRENT YEAR: 1916
NS stats given a nice cup of tea and asked to have a good day, but not come back.
You may know me, you may not, but I ALWAYS COME BACK.
Factbooks finally canon!
No, I won't stop trying to turn people into furries.
AnCom genderflux transfem cat furry who is also aroace. My gender is TECHNICALLY girlflux, but I prefer the term femflux. Pronouns are She/Thon.
I WILL take your pronouns. I will NOT give them back.
Pronouns stolen: 1x He/Him, 1x They/Them.
I am a lightbulb nerd. Ask me your lightbulb related questions.

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Bewaffnete Krafte
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Bewaffnete Krafte » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:32 am

A mix, but if I had to choose one, most certainly freedom. Also, having freedom doesn't mean you can't have security. It isn't a "one or the other" choice.
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Floofybit
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Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:34 am

The Vooperian Union wrote:
Floofybit wrote:That's rather selfish of you. Survival of the fittest kills the weak, and as a physically challenged person, I like life

What about anarchy makes you thnk I like survival of the fittest?

What government is gonna help the weak when there is no government?
Compass: Northwest
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Pro: Socialism, Authoritarianism, The Right To Life, Environment, Public Services, Government, Equity and Equality, Surveillance, Police, Religion, Pacifism, Fruit
Anti: Capitalism, Liberalism, Abortion, Anarchy, Inequality, Crime, Drugs, Guns, Violence, Fruit-Haters
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Broadcasting From Foxlington
Safety & Equality > Freedom
If I CTE hold a funeral because I'm dead :)
CHRISTMAS!!!!! (⁠*⁠ノ⁠・⁠ω⁠・⁠)⁠ノ⁠♫
Telegram me your favourite colour, I'm doing a survey

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The Vooperian Union
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Founded: Dec 11, 2022
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Vooperian Union » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:35 am

Floofybit wrote:
The Vooperian Union wrote:What about anarchy makes you think I like survival of the fittest?

What government is gonna help the weak when there is no government?

The people? Human nature is objectively caring.
Welcome to the timeline I’m writing!
I’m gonna slowly writing an althistory timeline for Poland starting in 1912, slowly evolving into a Sci-Fi space empire. This is gonna take a while, so be patient. CURRENT YEAR: 1916
NS stats given a nice cup of tea and asked to have a good day, but not come back.
You may know me, you may not, but I ALWAYS COME BACK.
Factbooks finally canon!
No, I won't stop trying to turn people into furries.
AnCom genderflux transfem cat furry who is also aroace. My gender is TECHNICALLY girlflux, but I prefer the term femflux. Pronouns are She/Thon.
I WILL take your pronouns. I will NOT give them back.
Pronouns stolen: 1x He/Him, 1x They/Them.
I am a lightbulb nerd. Ask me your lightbulb related questions.

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The Remnant of James
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Founded: Jul 15, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby The Remnant of James » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:36 am

The Vooperian Union wrote:I'm an anarchist, and I'm talking about freedom and safety as obscure concepts.

I realize that, and my whole point is that talking about safety and freedom as concepts and categorize them is pointless, because it is impossible to make a blanket statement that one is superior to the other. Which one is "better" it's entirety contingent on the context of the individual situation. Trying to argue that safety is better than freedom or vice versa is the political/philosophical equivalent of whether it's better to use a wrench or a hammer with no context.

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Necroghastia
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Founded: May 11, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:36 am

Floofybit wrote:
The Vooperian Union wrote:Death is preferable to oppression. No arguments.

Oppression is preferable to death.

What's the point of life if you are prevented from living?
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The Vooperian Union
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Founded: Dec 11, 2022
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Vooperian Union » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:38 am

The Remnant of James wrote:
The Vooperian Union wrote:I'm an anarchist, and I'm talking about freedom and safety as obscure concepts.

I realize that, and my whole point is that talking about safety and freedom as concepts and categorize them is pointless, because it is impossible to make a blanket statement that one is superior to the other. Which one is "better" it's entirely contingent on the context of the individual situation. Trying to argue that safety is better than freedom or vice versa is the political/philosophical equivalent of whether it's better to use a wrench or a hammer with no context.

I agree with you there, but the point of this thread is to argue about abstract concepts. You decide on the context.
Welcome to the timeline I’m writing!
I’m gonna slowly writing an althistory timeline for Poland starting in 1912, slowly evolving into a Sci-Fi space empire. This is gonna take a while, so be patient. CURRENT YEAR: 1916
NS stats given a nice cup of tea and asked to have a good day, but not come back.
You may know me, you may not, but I ALWAYS COME BACK.
Factbooks finally canon!
No, I won't stop trying to turn people into furries.
AnCom genderflux transfem cat furry who is also aroace. My gender is TECHNICALLY girlflux, but I prefer the term femflux. Pronouns are She/Thon.
I WILL take your pronouns. I will NOT give them back.
Pronouns stolen: 1x He/Him, 1x They/Them.
I am a lightbulb nerd. Ask me your lightbulb related questions.

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Portzania
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Founded: Oct 30, 2022
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Portzania » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:38 am

Necroghastia wrote:
Floofybit wrote:Oppression is preferable to death.

What's the point of life if you are prevented from living?

People under oppressive regimes/people experiencing oppression just don't kill themselves.
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Sky Reavers
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Founded: Nov 18, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sky Reavers » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:38 am

I am still gonna vote for freedom. Oppressive regimes give ya' neither freedom, nor safety and just screw ya' over.
Last edited by Sky Reavers on Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Adamede
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Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:41 am

Safety is something that can never truly be guaranteed.

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