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Is safety or freedom better?

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The Vooperian Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Is safety or freedom better?

Postby The Vooperian Union » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:24 am

Basically, discuss if safety or freedom are better.
(Context: Freedom as in the ability to go about your daily life without oppression, and safety as in protection by the state.)
There's not much I can add here, other than that I prefer freedom.
Last edited by The Vooperian Union on Mon May 08, 2023 5:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Floofybit
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:25 am

Safety matters more.
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The Vooperian Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Vooperian Union » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:27 am

Floofybit wrote:Safety matters more.

What does safety matter if you are oppressed by the state? If you can't go about your life without intervention from the government?
Welcome to the timeline I’m writing!
I’m gonna slowly writing an althistory timeline for Poland starting in 1912, slowly evolving into a Sci-Fi space empire. This is gonna take a while, so be patient. CURRENT YEAR: 1916
NS stats given a nice cup of tea and asked to have a good day, but not come back.
You may know me, you may not, but I ALWAYS COME BACK.
Factbooks finally canon!
No, I won't stop trying to turn people into furries.
AnCom genderflux transfem cat furry who is also aroace. My gender is TECHNICALLY girlflux, but I prefer the term femflux. Pronouns are She/Thon.
I WILL take your pronouns. I will NOT give them back.
Pronouns stolen: 1x He/Him, 1x They/Them.
I am a lightbulb nerd. Ask me your lightbulb related questions.

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Portzania
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Portzania » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:28 am

Safety matters more, but that doesn't mean freedom has to be completely blindsided by it. There can be a compromise and people act like there can't be any compromise.
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Portzania is an underdeveloped nation consisting of an archipelago located in the Mediterranean, near Egypt.
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Pupile
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Pupile » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:30 am

Both are important but I’d say safety because I don’t wanna wake up in the night to take a walk and then get shot or something
i wanna live not die
Last edited by Pupile on Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The Vooperian Union
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Postby The Vooperian Union » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:31 am

Portzania wrote:Safety matters more, but that doesn't mean freedom has to be completely blindsided by it. There can be a compromise and people act like there can't be any compromise.

There can be a compromise, but I heavily prefer freedom over safety.

What does it really mean to be safe, though?
Welcome to the timeline I’m writing!
I’m gonna slowly writing an althistory timeline for Poland starting in 1912, slowly evolving into a Sci-Fi space empire. This is gonna take a while, so be patient. CURRENT YEAR: 1916
NS stats given a nice cup of tea and asked to have a good day, but not come back.
You may know me, you may not, but I ALWAYS COME BACK.
Factbooks finally canon!
No, I won't stop trying to turn people into furries.
AnCom genderflux transfem cat furry who is also aroace. My gender is TECHNICALLY girlflux, but I prefer the term femflux. Pronouns are She/Thon.
I WILL take your pronouns. I will NOT give them back.
Pronouns stolen: 1x He/Him, 1x They/Them.
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Floofybit
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:31 am

The Vooperian Union wrote:
Floofybit wrote:Safety matters more.

What does safety matter if you are oppressed by the state? If you can't go about your life without intervention from the government?

I want a long lasting life. I hate to feel and for anyone else to feel pain
Compass: Northwest
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Religious ace male floof who really loves fruit.
Broadcasting From Foxlington
Safety & Equality > Freedom
If I CTE hold a funeral because I'm dead :)
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Portzania
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Portzania » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:32 am

The Vooperian Union wrote:
Floofybit wrote:Safety matters more.

What does safety matter if you are oppressed by the state? If you can't go about your life without intervention from the government?

The state doesn't have to oppress you to keep it safe.
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Sky Reavers
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sky Reavers » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:34 am

Floofybit wrote:I want a long lasting life. I hate to feel and for anyone else to feel pain


And some people feel pain from the lack of freedoms.
Sky Reavers - A rogue superpower, that rides freely and fights against opressors, slavers, drug cartels, terrorists, evil corporations and gangs. Made of bunch of crazy, wild everpartying semi-anarchists, who are resistant to cold, heat and diseases, can can proccess booze like hell. MT/PMT tech. Wanna know more or have a request? It's here: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=505973

Remember, the fact, that we are semi-anarchy doesn't mean, that ya' can go around and rob random people. We still got law and order, loose as they are.

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The Vooperian Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Vooperian Union » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:34 am

Floofybit wrote:
The Vooperian Union wrote:What does safety matter if you are oppressed by the state? If you can't go about your life without intervention from the government?

I want a long-lasting life. I hate to feel and for anyone else to feel pain

Yea, but what about those in pain (prison) to "protect" the people?
and besides, when people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of safety” by the state.
Welcome to the timeline I’m writing!
I’m gonna slowly writing an althistory timeline for Poland starting in 1912, slowly evolving into a Sci-Fi space empire. This is gonna take a while, so be patient. CURRENT YEAR: 1916
NS stats given a nice cup of tea and asked to have a good day, but not come back.
You may know me, you may not, but I ALWAYS COME BACK.
Factbooks finally canon!
No, I won't stop trying to turn people into furries.
AnCom genderflux transfem cat furry who is also aroace. My gender is TECHNICALLY girlflux, but I prefer the term femflux. Pronouns are She/Thon.
I WILL take your pronouns. I will NOT give them back.
Pronouns stolen: 1x He/Him, 1x They/Them.
I am a lightbulb nerd. Ask me your lightbulb related questions.

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Floofybit
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:36 am

The Vooperian Union wrote:
Floofybit wrote:I want a long-lasting life. I hate to feel and for anyone else to feel pain

Yea, but what about those in pain (prison) to "protect" the people?
and besides, when people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of safety” by the state.

Prison doesn't have to be painful
Compass: Northwest
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Anti: Capitalism, Liberalism, Abortion, Anarchy, Inequality, Crime, Drugs, Guns, Violence, Fruit-Haters
Religious ace male floof who really loves fruit.
Broadcasting From Foxlington
Safety & Equality > Freedom
If I CTE hold a funeral because I'm dead :)
CHRISTMAS!!!!! (⁠*⁠ノ⁠・⁠ω⁠・⁠)⁠ノ⁠♫
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The Vooperian Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Vooperian Union » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:38 am

Floofybit wrote:
The Vooperian Union wrote:Yea, but what about those in pain (prison) to "protect" the people?
and besides, when people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of safety” by the state.

Prison doesn't have to be painful

Near all of the time, it is.

And even if it isn't painful, I think sky reavers said it best:
Sky Reavers wrote: And some people feel pain from the lack of freedoms.
Welcome to the timeline I’m writing!
I’m gonna slowly writing an althistory timeline for Poland starting in 1912, slowly evolving into a Sci-Fi space empire. This is gonna take a while, so be patient. CURRENT YEAR: 1916
NS stats given a nice cup of tea and asked to have a good day, but not come back.
You may know me, you may not, but I ALWAYS COME BACK.
Factbooks finally canon!
No, I won't stop trying to turn people into furries.
AnCom genderflux transfem cat furry who is also aroace. My gender is TECHNICALLY girlflux, but I prefer the term femflux. Pronouns are She/Thon.
I WILL take your pronouns. I will NOT give them back.
Pronouns stolen: 1x He/Him, 1x They/Them.
I am a lightbulb nerd. Ask me your lightbulb related questions.

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Aguaria Major
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Aguaria Major » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:39 am

Freedom matters more;

the safest possible functioning society is a dictatorial police state where everyone is under constant surveillance, and where everyone needs to get permission to leave their houses and make sure to file "flight plans" (for lack of a better term) with the state (wherein one needs to confirm exactly where they're going with the state) before going anywhere.

I would rather not live in this type of society, nor would I suspect that anyone else would, either.

This is not to say that any current society is 100% free, as

1) the freedom to do something also includes the material means to do it rather than a mere lack of state authorities actively preventing anyone from doing it, and

2) the freedom to determine one's own destiny and leaders requires the abolition of coercion and hierarchies to the greatest possible extent, which means that ending capitalism is a prerequisite for true freedom at a societal level.

But still: I'd rather live in a place like the EU or US than in a Gulf monarchy, Japan or China, despite the lower crime rates of the latter 3.
Last edited by Aguaria Major on Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sky Reavers
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Postby Sky Reavers » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:39 am

Floofybit wrote:Prison doesn't have to be painful


And with all these restrictions of guns, alcohol and such in the name of safety... It's not painful at all, cause the entire country is like a low security prison.
Last edited by Sky Reavers on Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sky Reavers - A rogue superpower, that rides freely and fights against opressors, slavers, drug cartels, terrorists, evil corporations and gangs. Made of bunch of crazy, wild everpartying semi-anarchists, who are resistant to cold, heat and diseases, can can proccess booze like hell. MT/PMT tech. Wanna know more or have a request? It's here: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=505973

Remember, the fact, that we are semi-anarchy doesn't mean, that ya' can go around and rob random people. We still got law and order, loose as they are.

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Floofybit
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:41 am

The Vooperian Union wrote:
Floofybit wrote:Prison doesn't have to be painful

Near all of the time, it is.

And even if it isn't painful, I think sky reavers said it best:
Sky Reavers wrote: And some people feel pain from the lack of freedoms.

Prisoned with soft floors and glass walls with holes so inmates can't harm another but can communicate. They can't leave their cells except with outside exercise but the cells are spacious and family can visit by being at the doors of the cell
Last edited by Floofybit on Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Compass: Northwest
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Anti: Capitalism, Liberalism, Abortion, Anarchy, Inequality, Crime, Drugs, Guns, Violence, Fruit-Haters
Religious ace male floof who really loves fruit.
Broadcasting From Foxlington
Safety & Equality > Freedom
If I CTE hold a funeral because I'm dead :)
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Sky Reavers
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Postby Sky Reavers » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:44 am

Floofybit wrote:Prisoned with soft floors and glass walls with holes so inmates can't harm another but can communicate. They can't leave their cells except with outside exercise but the cells are spacious and family can visit by being at the doors of the cell


One can do much harm with mere words... Still, at very least, there is no prison rape in Floofy style prisons.
Last edited by Sky Reavers on Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
Sky Reavers - A rogue superpower, that rides freely and fights against opressors, slavers, drug cartels, terrorists, evil corporations and gangs. Made of bunch of crazy, wild everpartying semi-anarchists, who are resistant to cold, heat and diseases, can can proccess booze like hell. MT/PMT tech. Wanna know more or have a request? It's here: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=505973

Remember, the fact, that we are semi-anarchy doesn't mean, that ya' can go around and rob random people. We still got law and order, loose as they are.

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The Vooperian Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Vooperian Union » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:45 am

Floofybit wrote:
The Vooperian Union wrote:Near all of the time, it is.

And even if it isn't painful, I think sky reavers said it best:

Prisoned with soft floors and glass walls with holes so inmates can't harm another but can communicate. They can't leave their cells except with outside exercise but the cells are spacious and family can visit by being at the doors of the cell

I never said prisons couldn't be fine, but no matter what, the state will be a tyranny, and money will always be murder.
Welcome to the timeline I’m writing!
I’m gonna slowly writing an althistory timeline for Poland starting in 1912, slowly evolving into a Sci-Fi space empire. This is gonna take a while, so be patient. CURRENT YEAR: 1916
NS stats given a nice cup of tea and asked to have a good day, but not come back.
You may know me, you may not, but I ALWAYS COME BACK.
Factbooks finally canon!
No, I won't stop trying to turn people into furries.
AnCom genderflux transfem cat furry who is also aroace. My gender is TECHNICALLY girlflux, but I prefer the term femflux. Pronouns are She/Thon.
I WILL take your pronouns. I will NOT give them back.
Pronouns stolen: 1x He/Him, 1x They/Them.
I am a lightbulb nerd. Ask me your lightbulb related questions.

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Rusozak
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Rusozak » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:50 am

Considering "safety" at the expense of freedom is the common rationale of dictatorships, freedom all the way. Safety means nothing if you are enslaved to a despot.
NOTE: This nation's government style, policies, and opinions in roleplay or forum 7 does not represent my true beliefs. It is purely for the enjoyment of the game.

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Floofybit
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:55 am

Sky Reavers wrote:
Floofybit wrote:Prisoned with soft floors and glass walls with holes so inmates can't harm another but can communicate. They can't leave their cells except with outside exercise but the cells are spacious and family can visit by being at the doors of the cell


One can do much harm with mere words... Still, at very least, there is no prison rape in Floofy style prisons.

Yup. Rape is not okay under any circumstances and will not be tolerated anywhere.
Last edited by Floofybit on Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
Compass: Northwest
Reformative Authoritarian Pacifist
Pro: Socialism, Authoritarianism, The Right To Life, Environment, Public Services, Government, Equity and Equality, Surveillance, Police, Religion, Pacifism, Fruit
Anti: Capitalism, Liberalism, Abortion, Anarchy, Inequality, Crime, Drugs, Guns, Violence, Fruit-Haters
Religious ace male floof who really loves fruit.
Broadcasting From Foxlington
Safety & Equality > Freedom
If I CTE hold a funeral because I'm dead :)
CHRISTMAS!!!!! (⁠*⁠ノ⁠・⁠ω⁠・⁠)⁠ノ⁠♫
Telegram me your favourite colour, I'm doing a survey

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Floofybit
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:57 am

Sky Reavers wrote:
Floofybit wrote:I want a long lasting life. I hate to feel and for anyone else to feel pain


And some people feel pain from the lack of freedoms.

The pain seldom compares to the pain of gunshots and alcohol poisoning
Compass: Northwest
Reformative Authoritarian Pacifist
Pro: Socialism, Authoritarianism, The Right To Life, Environment, Public Services, Government, Equity and Equality, Surveillance, Police, Religion, Pacifism, Fruit
Anti: Capitalism, Liberalism, Abortion, Anarchy, Inequality, Crime, Drugs, Guns, Violence, Fruit-Haters
Religious ace male floof who really loves fruit.
Broadcasting From Foxlington
Safety & Equality > Freedom
If I CTE hold a funeral because I'm dead :)
CHRISTMAS!!!!! (⁠*⁠ノ⁠・⁠ω⁠・⁠)⁠ノ⁠♫
Telegram me your favourite colour, I'm doing a survey

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The Vooperian Union
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Founded: Dec 11, 2022
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Vooperian Union » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:58 am

Floofybit wrote:
Sky Reavers wrote:
And some people feel pain from the lack of freedoms.

The pain seldom compares to the pain of gunshots and alcohol poisoning

The pain of a lack of freedom is worse.
Welcome to the timeline I’m writing!
I’m gonna slowly writing an althistory timeline for Poland starting in 1912, slowly evolving into a Sci-Fi space empire. This is gonna take a while, so be patient. CURRENT YEAR: 1916
NS stats given a nice cup of tea and asked to have a good day, but not come back.
You may know me, you may not, but I ALWAYS COME BACK.
Factbooks finally canon!
No, I won't stop trying to turn people into furries.
AnCom genderflux transfem cat furry who is also aroace. My gender is TECHNICALLY girlflux, but I prefer the term femflux. Pronouns are She/Thon.
I WILL take your pronouns. I will NOT give them back.
Pronouns stolen: 1x He/Him, 1x They/Them.
I am a lightbulb nerd. Ask me your lightbulb related questions.

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Portzania
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Portzania » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:58 am

The Vooperian Union wrote:
Floofybit wrote:Prisoned with soft floors and glass walls with holes so inmates can't harm another but can communicate. They can't leave their cells except with outside exercise but the cells are spacious and family can visit by being at the doors of the cell

I never said prisons couldn't be fine, but no matter what, the state will be a tyranny, and money will always be murder.

Why is a state always tyranny? Is every country in the world tyrannical?
⚔︎The Portzanian Social Republic⚔︎
"My final wish to mankind? Don't let women be the central spokesperson for your ideology, religion, ethics, and....."
*BEEEEEEEEEEP*
Portzania is an underdeveloped nation consisting of an archipelago located in the Mediterranean, near Egypt.
Novidades! | What is a Weeping Flesh Hive? Protect your family. | "It wasn't a hate crime because I loved doing it, officer" Says convicted suspect of Church vandalism. |"Portzania's Violence Map Shows Alarming Trends" - Portzania Reports

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The Vooperian Union
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Founded: Dec 11, 2022
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Vooperian Union » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:00 am

Portzania wrote:
The Vooperian Union wrote:I never said prisons couldn't be fine, but no matter what, the state will be a tyranny, and money will always be murder.

Why is a state always tyranny? Is every country in the world tyrannical?

Yes. The state is a plague that must be abolished.
Welcome to the timeline I’m writing!
I’m gonna slowly writing an althistory timeline for Poland starting in 1912, slowly evolving into a Sci-Fi space empire. This is gonna take a while, so be patient. CURRENT YEAR: 1916
NS stats given a nice cup of tea and asked to have a good day, but not come back.
You may know me, you may not, but I ALWAYS COME BACK.
Factbooks finally canon!
No, I won't stop trying to turn people into furries.
AnCom genderflux transfem cat furry who is also aroace. My gender is TECHNICALLY girlflux, but I prefer the term femflux. Pronouns are She/Thon.
I WILL take your pronouns. I will NOT give them back.
Pronouns stolen: 1x He/Him, 1x They/Them.
I am a lightbulb nerd. Ask me your lightbulb related questions.

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Portzania
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Founded: Oct 30, 2022
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Portzania » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:01 am

The Vooperian Union wrote:
Portzania wrote:Why is a state always tyranny? Is every country in the world tyrannical?

Yes. The state is a plague that must be abolished.

Mhm.....
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Floofybit
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Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:02 am

The Vooperian Union wrote:
Portzania wrote:Why is a state always tyranny? Is every country in the world tyrannical?

Yes. The state is a plague that must be abolished.

Why? Do you really want anarchy?
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