The idea is simple: People have opinions of religions. I thought this could be an interesting way to express such opinions. I made a chart based on the DnD alignment chart.
Please respect the beliefs of others, everyone. No, you are not better because you believe the truth. I am not better because I believe the truth. Other people are not stupid because they disagree with you; there are good arguments all around. We do not want the mods coming down upon us.
Mine:
X
Lawful:
-
Chaotic:
Truth/Somewhat Close to Truth:
Catholicism
Orthodox Church
Judaism
-
Islam
Ancient Paganism
Protestantism
Severe Error:
-
Atheism
Satanism/Neopaganism/Occult
Note that my knowledge of other religions is not perfect. I've refrained from including Eastern religions because I know next to nothing about them. I've done my best to follow "write what you know."
Catholicism (my religion) has the Pope. That's authority; lawful. Truth because it's mine. The Orthodox Church is one of our closest relatives and pretty close to the truth. They don't accept the Pope, though, so not as lawful. Judaism has a lot of the truth in it, and we're descended from it. It has more room for debate and less of a central authority, hence chaotic. Maybe interchangeable with the Orthodox.
I think Islam likes authority, so lawful. They've got some things right, others not. Neutral on that axis.
Ancient pagan religions were attempts at reaching God before the truth had been revealed. There was some truth in them. Neutral because of the immense variety.
Protestantism is a very, very strong rejection of authority. Chaotic, big time. Neutral on truth/error because they've lost quite a bit over the years and have become very divided.
I don't have anything for lawful error. If anyone has ideas let me know.
Atheism is in error, but it has no central authority. It has little opinion either way, so I put it in neutral. If not for the last one it would probably be in chaotic.
The chaotic error section is filled with a few things. There's definitely no central authority for any of these things, save for the first one (there are a few). But the former is basically accepting our doctrine but deciding to side with the enemy. That's chaotic, I guess? Maybe I should've put these guys higher on truth/error, since they do get their facts right, even if they come to questionable conclusions. Anyway, the other ones have no authority, and offer power to the average person who stumbles across their teachings. Chaotic for sure.
From a radical left point of view, the distribution is as follows: - Atheism (dialectical materialism) was considered the best, since it encourages people to change society and nature for the sake of earthly happiness, arguing that there is no afterlife happiness. - In second place was Protestantism. Trotsky recalls in his autobiography that when he was forced to choose the type of religion for his children to study in a foreign school, he chose Lutheranism as the most "portable", easy to learn. In addition, Protestantism is associated with the rebellion against the luxury and privileges of the Catholic Church, with the peasant war in Germany, with the English Revolution, and with the radical egalitarian sects of that period. However, it has drawbacks: hostility to earthly pleasures and to Marxist materialism, the division of people into those chosen and rejected by God. - in third place were Catholicism and Orthodoxy, tk. they did not experience reformation, and therefore they retained not only bourgeois, but also pre-bourgeois, feudal features. They justify the tyranny of autocrats and nobles, preach the feudal hierarchy as a social ideal, paralyze attempts at technical and social improvement, promising instead a heaven in heaven. However, they also contain the positive egalitarian features of Christianity: the equality of peoples ("neither Greek nor Jew"), and the equality of all before God. - In fourth place was Judaism and pagan religions, because they had less universalism and tolerance. - in last place were Satanism and the occult, because there was a lot of elitism, and in Satanism there was also cruelty to living beings.
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:52 am
by Portzania
Technoscience Leftwing wrote:- in third place were Catholicism and Orthodoxy, tk. they did not experience reformation, and therefore they retained not only bourgeois, but also pre-bourgeois, feudal features.
Catholicism did have a reformation, right after the protestant reformation.
I am an Atheist, so that explains the truth/error axis(mostly).
I distinguish between Symbolic Satanism (using Satan as a term for an antagonist to traditional religion) and Theistic Satanism(Worshipping the Satan that most Christians believe in).
Technoscience Leftwing wrote:- in third place were Catholicism and Orthodoxy, tk. they did not experience reformation, and therefore they retained not only bourgeois, but also pre-bourgeois, feudal features.
Catholicism did have a reformation, right after the protestant reformation.
It was mostly a counter-reformation that doesn't matter as much. Vatican II was another post-protestant reformation of catholicism that doesn't fix the bouregois and feudal features of Catholicism.
Technoscience Leftwing wrote:- in third place were Catholicism and Orthodoxy, tk. they did not experience reformation, and therefore they retained not only bourgeois, but also pre-bourgeois, feudal features.
Catholicism did have a reformation, right after the protestant reformation.
IIRC from the theological class at my church, it was the Catholic Revival/Catholic Reformation/Catholic Counter Reformation that began under the Council of Trent.
Portzania wrote:Catholicism did have a reformation, right after the protestant reformation.
It was mostly a counter-reformation that doesn't matter as much. Vatican II was another post-protestant reformation of catholicism that doesn't fix the bouregois and feudal features of Catholicism.
It did matter though. It lead to the education of women, the Jesuits, anti corruption measures/administration, and of course, the abuse of indulgences.
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:28 am
by Laasmistan
I'm a Muslim, Shia to be precise, so I will be coming at this from that perspective. I also don't understand this chart because I'm dumb so I'll put my answers below it.
X
Lawful:
-
Chaotic:
Truth/Somewhat Close to Truth:
LAWFUL TRUTH
NEUTRAL TRUTH
CHAOTIC TRUTH
-
LAWFUL NEUTRAL
TRUE NEUTRAL
CHAOTIC NEUTRAL
Severe Error:
CHAOTIC ERROR
NEUTRAL ERROR
CHAOTIC ERROR
Lawful would be Judaism and Islam as they both have strong emphasis on a set of laws and following them. Islam and Judaism are both lawful truth as I see truth in them both, obviously.
Christianity as a whole would be neutral truth as how lawful it is depends on sect. Some are a bit more legalistic. Plus there's the organized hierarchy and such, particularly in Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Neutral truth because, like Judaism, Islam recognizes some truth in Christianity. Fringe sects like JW and LDS, however, I would place in the error category (not sure whether chaotic or lawful, though).
Everything else I would probably place as neutral simply because I don't know enough about them to make claims about how true they are.
Atheism I would place as chaotic error because I think atheism is in error. Plus it seems to be a form of rebellion against organized religion (at least that's how I've largely seen it manifested in my own life).
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:24 pm
by Exarkyon
El Lazaro wrote:Here’s a template that 90% of the thread’s posts will inevitably copy:
At least I had the decency to leave lawful truth blank!
I don't think the problem is people putting themselves in lawful truth (unless your religion doesn't like authority/should be put as chaotic truth). The problem is people lumping all their opponents in chaotic error. Come on, guys... your opponents are across the lawful/chaotic spectrum and have different identities.
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:19 pm
by The Second Order of Life
I avoid talking about religion too much, mostly because I'm an atheist and therefore the mainstay of my argument is "okay, but none of that is real tho", but I'll indulge. This definitely seems like something that'd belong in F7, but I guess it works fine here too.
X
Lawful:
-
Chaotic:
Truth/Somewhat Close to Truth:
Nontheistic Satanism/mock religions in general
Atheism
Antitheism
-
Non-theistic religions that are generally harmless (think Unitarian Universalism or the Ethical Movement)
Laveyan Satanism (good shit, bad shit, overall neutral)
New age religions and spiritual beliefs in general (mostly because they tend to be used to fuck over people's wallets. Fuck crystals)
Severe Error:
Theistic religions that don't support any form of discrimination against minorities (I heard eastern religions, that don't have strict books detailing rules and canon, tend to be like this, but I don't know enough to cite one)
Islam, Catholicism and Christianity in general, you get who's here.
Cults, fundamentalists, Scientology, the LDS church, trad caths... you get the point, the baddies are here and there's no two ways about it
Also, I dislike using "lawful" and "chaotic" because... any organised religion would technically be lawful. It seems like an useless label for this topic that could've been used for something more interesting and telling, so I interpreted "lawful" as "agreeing with my personal morality system".
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:19 pm
by Neutraligon
Did you seriously put Jews in chaotic… like really? Tell me you know nothing of Judaism without saying you know nothing of Judaism.
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:43 pm
by Floofybit
Neutraligon wrote:Did you seriously put Jews in chaotic… like really? Tell me you know nothing of Judaism without saying you know nothing of Judaism.
Lol
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:15 pm
by Vikanias
Hell why not
X
Lawful:
-
Chaotic:
Truth/Somewhat Close to Truth:
Catholicism
Eastern Orthodoxy
Judaism
-
Agnosticism
Protestantism
Calvinism
Severe Error:
Paganism
Atheism
Satanism
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:59 pm
by Haganham
Neutraligon wrote:Did you seriously put Jews in chaotic… like really? Tell me you know nothing of Judaism without saying you know nothing of Judaism.
Isn't there a saying about asking two rabbis a question and you'll get three answers?
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:02 am