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What is wokeism?

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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:40 pm

The new way to call certain people 'uppity.'
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Postby Galway-Dublin » Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:13 pm

I was having a pleasant conversation about Spider-Man and somebody brought up the Confederate States President Jefferson Davis is Spider-Man's dad. I told him he was woke soyjack, and he banned me from the forum. I said he was a woke soyboy beCAUSE he woke said the confederacy was racist . i am not racist my grand dad not racist but he SAID he was becasue he was woke. soyjacks like him will be persecuted under the rule of ronald de santos
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Alcala-Cordel
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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:38 pm

It was a slang term for awareness of injustice. Now it's a vaguely defined buzzword used to make people angry alongside "critical race theory", "cultural Marxism", and "SJW". Every decade has a new slew of terms like this, and it's easier to use them than it is to make real arguments.
Last edited by Alcala-Cordel on Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:05 pm

Galway-Dublin wrote:I was having a pleasant conversation about Spider-Man and somebody brought up the Confederate States President Jefferson Davis is Spider-Man's dad. I told him he was woke soyjack, and he banned me from the forum. I said he was a woke soyboy beCAUSE he woke said the confederacy was racist . i am not racist my grand dad not racist but he SAID he was becasue he was woke. soyjacks like him will be persecuted under the rule of ronald de santos

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"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Nilokeras
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Postby Nilokeras » Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:27 pm

Beyond being an empty vessel used as a snarl, I think 'wokeism' has taken on an interesting new valence as an expression of intergenerational frustration on the part of boomers: millenials, gen z'ers and gen xers have thus far failed to be absorbed into the boomer oriented lumpen-conservative media consensus (whether that be terfism, conservatism or Qanon) and they're faced with trying to explain why that is, and come to the conclusion that educational institutions - primary, secondary, university - are infecting the youth with 'wokeism'.

And what hat is that 'wokeism'? Well anything that is an expression of a culture or political opinion different from their own - complaints about uni students being 'censorious' or strident usually translate into having different opinions and not being afraid to express them. The prior incarnations of 'cultural Marxism' and 'political correctness' had this connotation too but I don't think they stuck quite as much, maybe because the starkness of the divide hadn't become obvious enough.
Last edited by Nilokeras on Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Uiiop
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Postby Uiiop » Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:10 pm

Gravlen wrote:Wokeism is just a politically correct term for cultural marxism, favoured by globalists and George Soros.

I hate Graveln because he told me the truth.
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The Grand Fifth Imperium
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Postby The Grand Fifth Imperium » Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:15 pm

Fan-T Pashtunistan wrote:The term "woke" and it's derivatives have been used in a positive and a negative way in politics, especially recently (despite the term's roots stretching to the 1950s).
Here I will attempt a definition
(A difficult task, as anyone, feminist or anti-feminist, will tell you is true of defining feminism as well).
My answer
Wokeism is a sociologically-focused, left-wing philosophy, where the cultural war takes the place that the class struggle held for the old left (such as Marxists).


As someone who likes new words (that often have unfortunately ambiguous or varied meanings), I hereby recognize this as the official definition of the term "woke". Now someone start editing this into a dictionary. All people who disagree can go disagree.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:20 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:The new way to call certain people 'uppity.'


Possible. I think it’s just a lazy assed way of trying to dismiss something they don’t like and really don’t have an argument as to why it should be dismissed.
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Postby Neanderthaland » Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:35 pm

Wokeism is a shinny bauble that Disney waves in the faces of morons to generate free publicity, and distract people from how bad their live-action movies are.
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Narland
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Postby Narland » Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:08 pm

The Grand Fifth Imperium wrote:
Fan-T Pashtunistan wrote:The term "woke" and it's derivatives have been used in a positive and a negative way in politics, especially recently (despite the term's roots stretching to the 1950s).
Here I will attempt a definition
(A difficult task, as anyone, feminist or anti-feminist, will tell you is true of defining feminism as well).
My answer
Wokeism is a sociologically-focused, left-wing philosophy, where the cultural war takes the place that the class struggle held for the old left (such as Marxists).


As someone who likes new words (that often have unfortunately ambiguous or varied meanings), I hereby recognize this as the official definition of the term "woke". Now someone start editing this into a dictionary. All people who disagree can go disagree.

OED added it in 2017 -- woke; adjective: Originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice; frequently in stay woke.

A brief and somewhat simplified history is given in the UK Independent in early 2021.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/woke-meaning-word-history-b1790787.html

When arming deacons in the 50s and 60s an uncle and his coworkers recognized the words alert and woke as opposing shibboleths.

I consider "woke" to be that form of militant Cultural Marxism espoused by those who claim that all disparity and inequality are a result of historic (and continuing) systemically ingrained injustice unconsciously woven into American institutions and society such that equality of outcome can only be attained by fundamentally altering American society not with reasoned discourse (as American society is so unjust that they are blind to their own sepsis) but by strategically applied dialectics, Marxist Determinism, and mob violence. I apply it only to the dedicated Marxist Revolutionaries in our midst (and their immediate useful stooges) who are throwing any narrative out there hoping it will stick in order to move on to the final phase of a revolution.
Last edited by Narland on Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:14 pm

Narland wrote:I consider "woke" to be that form of militant Cultural Marxism espoused by those who claim that all disparity and inequality are a result of historic (and continuing) systemically ingrained injustice unconsciously woven into American institutions and society such that equality of outcome can only be attained by fundamentally altering American society not with reasoned discourse (as American society is so unjust that they are blind to their own sepsis) but by strategically applied dialectics, Marxist Determinism, and mob violence. I apply it only to the dedicated Marxist Revolutionaries in our midst (and their immediate useful stooges) who are throwing any narrative out there hoping it will stick in order to move on to the final phase of a revolution.

You can just say “das j00den” already. Dogwhistles don’t work if everyone knows them.

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Postby The Second Order of Life » Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:18 pm

El Lazaro wrote:You can just say “das j00den” already. Dogwhistles don’t work if everyone knows them.


"Marxist Revolutionaries in our midst" Guys, I found him, I found John McCarthy, inventor of McCarthyism!
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Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:19 pm

Narland wrote:
The Grand Fifth Imperium wrote:
As someone who likes new words (that often have unfortunately ambiguous or varied meanings), I hereby recognize this as the official definition of the term "woke". Now someone start editing this into a dictionary. All people who disagree can go disagree.

OED added it in 2017 -- woke; adjective: Originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice; frequently in stay woke.

A brief and somewhat simplified history is given in the UK Independent in early 2021.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/woke-meaning-word-history-b1790787.html

When arming deacons in the 50s and 60s an uncle and his coworkers recognized the words alert and woke as opposing shibboleths.

I consider "woke" to be that form of militant Cultural Marxism espoused by those who claim that all disparity and inequality are a result of historic (and continuing) systemically ingrained injustice unconsciously woven into American institutions and society such that equality of outcome can only be attained by fundamentally altering American society not with reasoned discourse (as American society is so unjust that they are blind to their own sepsis) but by strategically applied dialectics, Marxist Determinism, and mob violence. I apply it only to the dedicated Marxist Revolutionaries in our midst (and their immediate useful stooges) who are throwing any narrative out there hoping it will stick in order to move on to the final phase of a revolution.

Karltural Marxism is a nothing term which can be construed to mean anything within the “Things I don’t like” category. Woke is exactly the same thing. Also, it’s absurd to think that Marxists are allowed anywhere near any kind of political influence in the US, Dems are neoliberals and little else.
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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:35 pm

The Second Order of Life wrote:
El Lazaro wrote:You can just say “das j00den” already. Dogwhistles don’t work if everyone knows them.


"Marxist Revolutionaries in our midst" Guys, I found him, I found John McCarthy, inventor of McCarthyism!

It’s not a McCarthyite idea. There were, in all fairness, actual Soviet sympathizers that the government was suppressing and not just an imaginary cabal of anti-white Jewish parasites.

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Narland
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Postby Narland » Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:39 pm

Crysuko wrote:
Narland wrote:OED added it in 2017 -- woke; adjective: Originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice; frequently in stay woke.

A brief and somewhat simplified history is given in the UK Independent in early 2021.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/woke-meaning-word-history-b1790787.html

When arming deacons in the 50s and 60s an uncle and his coworkers recognized the words alert and woke as opposing shibboleths.

I consider "woke" to be that form of militant Cultural Marxism espoused by those who claim that all disparity and inequality are a result of historic (and continuing) systemically ingrained injustice unconsciously woven into American institutions and society such that equality of outcome can only be attained by fundamentally altering American society not with reasoned discourse (as American society is so unjust that they are blind to their own sepsis) but by strategically applied dialectics, Marxist Determinism, and mob violence. I apply it only to the dedicated Marxist Revolutionaries in our midst (and their immediate useful stooges) who are throwing any narrative out there hoping it will stick in order to move on to the final phase of a revolution.

Karltural Marxism is a nothing term which can be construed to mean anything within the “Things I don’t like” category. Woke is exactly the same thing. Also, it’s absurd to think that Marxists are allowed anywhere near any kind of political influence in the US, Dems are neoliberals and little else.

It's absurd to think that Marxists don't exist. It is even more absurd to believe that Marxists do not adhere to their own ideology.
Last edited by Narland on Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:48 pm

Narland wrote:
Crysuko wrote:Karltural Marxism is a nothing term which can be construed to mean anything within the “Things I don’t like” category. Woke is exactly the same thing. Also, it’s absurd to think that Marxists are allowed anywhere near any kind of political influence in the US, Dems are neoliberals and little else.

It's absurd to think that Marxists don't exist. It is even more absurd to believe that Marxists do not adhere to their own ideology.

Cultural Bolshevism was never part of Marxism-Leninism. It was nonsense last century, and it’s even more nonsensical this century now that there are no serious MLs in power.

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Crysuko
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Postby Crysuko » Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:54 pm

Narland wrote:
Crysuko wrote:Karltural Marxism is a nothing term which can be construed to mean anything within the “Things I don’t like” category. Woke is exactly the same thing. Also, it’s absurd to think that Marxists are allowed anywhere near any kind of political influence in the US, Dems are neoliberals and little else.

It's absurd to think that Marxists don't exist. It is even more absurd to believe that Marxists do not adhere to their own ideology.

Way to completely ignore what I said.
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Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

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Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:00 am

Is it the religion of Ewoks?
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El Lazaro
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Postby El Lazaro » Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:01 am

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:Is it the religion of Ewoks?

The wokees are the big, tall ones, like Chewbacca—the space Sasquatch with Han Solo as his partner.

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Postby Gravlen » Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:10 am

Uiiop wrote:
Gravlen wrote:Wokeism is just a politically correct term for cultural marxism, favoured by globalists and George Soros.

I hate Graveln because he told me the truth.

Alas, I have become the victim of cancel culture. :(
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Postby Hirota » Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:51 am

In an attempt to entertain a thought (without necessarily accepting it, and even if Artistole didn't say it, it's a decent principle for treating human beings with decency even if you don't agree with them), I'll offer a definition that tries to respect it's entymology, yet reflects that it's been co-opted by both the "left" and "right" to mean different things.

On the left, I'd argue it's a collection of people individually advocating in different areas where they perceive injustice, but with a cohesive similarity of language, and an overlapping concern for oppression, privilege, systemic power, diversity, equity, inclusion, inequality, sex, race, and/or gender.

On the right, I'd argue it's an observation of how the behaviour of people and movements can be examined and and if the actions of those people and movements are justified, sincere, rational and proportional.

I don't think those two are mutually exclusive, but I do think they are often used in cross purposes.

I think there is reluctance on the left to define the term in order to allow these disparate advocacy groups from being observed and critiqued as a single similar collective of behaviour (maybe similar to the confusion hypothesis to explain why Zebras have stripes), and I think there is a reluctance on the right to identify that largely the people advocating in the various areas they perceive injustice are generally well-intentioned.
Last edited by Hirota on Fri Mar 17, 2023 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mutualist Chaos » Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:26 am

Alcala-Cordel wrote:It was a slang term for awareness of injustice. Now it's a vaguely defined buzzword used to make people angry alongside "critical race theory", "cultural Marxism", and "SJW". Every decade has a new slew of terms like this, and it's easier to use them than it is to make real arguments.


Thank you, this. "Wokeism" is what the knee-jerk kicking-and-screaming sphere of public discourse turned to once they discovered people aren't scared shitless of so-called "SJWs" because it turns out social justice is Good, Actually. "Wokeism" is more easily associated directly with scary people like the blacks and the LGBTs and the illegals. "SJWs" might turn out to have a reasonable policy agenda, whereas "wokeists" are just Others who might get the catastrophic idea to band together for mutual aid. "No, I'm not a bigot, I just think wokeism has gone too far!" :roll:
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:28 am

Gravlen wrote:
Uiiop wrote:I hate Graveln because he told me the truth.

Alas, I have become the victim of cancel culture. :(


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A-10
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Postby A-10 » Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:49 am

Woke just means aware of social issues.

The reason why you don't see many people calling themselves wokeist is

1. That term is stupid

2. Woke is used more as an insult rather then an actual term
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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:19 am

It's kind of "Social Justice Warrior version 2.0" insofar as it briefly had an operational meaning I could grasp in describing a general kind of leftist activist with semi-specific negative characteristics. And then it very quickly didn't.

Slight difference in emphasis maybe. The SJW stereotype started mainly as someone just being an unpleasant arsehole and using their self-image of "being on the right side of history" to excuse their behaviour. The Woke stereotype seemed at one point to me like it had slightly more of an association with being naive and complicit in liberal media/politicians "capturing" causes and using them to make themselves look progressive without promising any actual investment in substantial stuff to improve people's lives. There was a thing for a bit where populist conservative commentators quite persuasively described the dynamic and how it showed liberals didn't really care about ordinary working people...the problem then being that this owning of the libs wasn't followed up with any plans to help ordinary people and indeed was the exact same dynamic of hinting at being on the side of ordinary working people to fool them into voting without offering them anything concrete.

What they have in common is that they very quickly became generic snarl terms without much meaning that could be thrown at anyone vaguely left wing.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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