American Politics: Fiscal Cliffhanger

[San Lumen]

https://oregoncapitalchronicle.com/2023/05/18/one-third-of-oregon-senate-now-ineligible-for-another-term-as-republican-walkout-continues/

One-third of Oregon Senate now ineligible for another term as Republican walkout continues
Minority Leader Tim Knopp said Republicans will return to vote on a budget

I never expected to find that many heroes in Oregon, tbh...

They are not heroes. They are obstructing the very functioning of government. If they aren't going to do their jobs they should not be allowed to keep it.

If you refused to show up to work but demanded you still get paid your boss would fire you.

[San Lumen]

Would you rather have the country default?

I thought you were all for the country defaulting?

No what I said was if we are not willing to negotiate and reach a deal then we should default.

[Pizza Friday Forever91]

I thought you were all for the country defaulting?

No what I said was if we are not willing to negotiate and reach a deal then we should default.

you are negotiating with people acting entirely in bad faith Lumen.

[American Legionaries]

I never expected to find that many heroes in Oregon, tbh...

They are not heroes.

They are

They are obstructing the very functioning of government.

And this is how.

[San Lumen]

They are not heroes.

They are

They are obstructing the very functioning of government.

And rmthis is how.

No they are not. the people voted for the legislature and chose Democrats to run it. The minority don't get to hold the rest of the state hostage because they don't like the outcome of an election.

[Spirit of Hope]

They are



And rmthis is how.

No they are not. the people voted for the legislature and chose Democrats to run it. The minority don't get to hold the rest of the state hostage because they don't like the outcome of an election.

So Democrats should stop filibustering in Nebraska to protect trans rights?

[American Legionaries]

They are



And rmthis is how.

No they are not. the people voted for the legislature and chose Democrats to run it. The minority don't get to hold the rest of the state hostage because they don't like the outcome of an election.

They quite clearly do get to. Because they are.

[San Lumen]

No they are not. the people voted for the legislature and chose Democrats to run it. The minority don't get to hold the rest of the state hostage because they don't like the outcome of an election.

So Democrats should stop filibustering in Nebraska to protect trans rights?

A filibuster is not the same as refusing to show up to the job you were elected to do.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... -care-ban/

the bill banning gender affirming care passed in Nebraska and the Governor is expected to sign it.

[Tarsonis]

I never expected to find that many heroes in Oregon, tbh...

They are not heroes. They are obstructing the very functioning of government. If they aren't going to do their jobs they should not be allowed to keep it.

If you refused to show up to work but demanded you still get paid your boss would fire you.

You only care because they're republicans. You would and have supported democrats doing the same thing.

[San Lumen]

No they are not. the people voted for the legislature and chose Democrats to run it. The minority don't get to hold the rest of the state hostage because they don't like the outcome of an election.

They quite clearly do get to. Because they are.

Why should the majority not get to pass the agenda they were elected to enact? If Democrats did this in a red state would you sing the same tune? I think the answer is no you'd call them obstructionists.

[Port Caverton]

They quite clearly do get to. Because they are.

Why should the majority not get to pass the agenda they were elected to enact? If Democrats did this in a red state would you sing the same tune? I think the answer is no you'd call them obstructionists.

More Republicans throughout the country should do this with the explicit goal of owning the libs

[Tarsonis]

They quite clearly do get to. Because they are.

Why should the majority not get to pass the agenda they were elected to enact? If Democrats did this in a red state would you sing the same tune? I think the answer is no you'd call them obstructionists.

Because people also voted republicans into office. they also get to use their legislative powers to influence the agenda.

You really don't understand how this government thing works San

[Senkaku]

Would you rather have the country default?

I would rather not have the Dems play chicken on the railroad tracks every time there’s a debt ceiling deadline when the reality is that they’re going to make concessions and cut a deal every single time. It’s just free airtime and fear marketing for every media organization in the country— everyone gets scared about an economic crisis and they can just rehash old articles about potential outcomes every time. It also undermines confidence in the American economy and government around the world when the negotiations are framed as a fight that they’re willing to go to the mattresses on— it creates an air of plausibility around a default that doesn’t seem merited given their actual willingness to cave.

[San Lumen]

Why should the majority not get to pass the agenda they were elected to enact? If Democrats did this in a red state would you sing the same tune? I think the answer is no you'd call them obstructionists.

Because people also voted republicans into office. they also get to use their legislative powers to influence the agenda.

You really don't understand how this government thing works San

In other words the majority that the people elected into office in a free and fair election shouldn’t be able to enact their agenda because some disagree.

[American Legionaries]

They quite clearly do get to. Because they are.

Why should the majority not get to pass the agenda they were elected to enact? If Democrats did this in a red state would you sing the same tune? I think the answer is no you'd call them obstructionists.

Because the majority's agenda is bad. How is calling them obstructionists a different tune?

[Tarsonis]

Because people also voted republicans into office. they also get to use their legislative powers to influence the agenda.

You really don't understand how this government thing works San

In other words the majority that the people elected into office in a free and fair election shouldn’t be able to enact their agenda because some disagree.

The Republicans were also elected in free and fair elections, and their constituents want them to block said agenda. the majority doesn't get carte blanche to just do whatever they want, and the minority just has to sit on its hands. they are using what power they have to make their constituents concerns heard.

[Spirit of Hope]

So Democrats should stop filibustering in Nebraska to protect trans rights?

A filibuster is not the same as refusing to show up to the job you were elected to do.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... -care-ban/

the bill banning gender affirming care passed in Nebraska and the Governor is expected to sign it.

Its not really all that different. Its obstructing the operations of the body in order to force desired policy changes. You can hardly praise one while condemning the other, especially while using such arguments as:

In other words the majority that the people elected into office in a free and fair election shouldn’t be able to enact their agenda because some disagree.

[San Lumen]

Why should the majority not get to pass the agenda they were elected to enact? If Democrats did this in a red state would you sing the same tune? I think the answer is no you'd call them obstructionists.

Because the majority's agenda is bad. How is calling them obstructionists a different tune?

So if Democrats did this in red states where they could would you approve?

In other words the majority that the people elected into office in a free and fair election shouldn’t be able to enact their agenda because some disagree.

The Republicans were also elected in free and fair elections, and their constituents want them to block said agenda. the majority doesn't get carte blanche to just do whatever they want, and the minority just has to sit on its hands. they are using what power they have to make their constituents concerns heard.

You have proof their constituents want them to prevent the legislature from functioning? The people voted for the amendment that bars them from reelection or does the minority that voted against the referendum's opinion matter more.

Should we know govern by what the minority wants and not what the majority voted for?

[Celritannia]

Because people also voted republicans into office. they also get to use their legislative powers to influence the agenda.

You really don't understand how this government thing works San

In other words the majority that the people elected into office in a free and fair election shouldn’t be able to enact their agenda because some disagree.

Then they should work on a compromise.

[San Lumen]

In other words the majority that the people elected into office in a free and fair election shouldn’t be able to enact their agenda because some disagree.

Then they should work on a compromise.

And if the minority refuses to compromise at all on certain bills that a majority wants they should not be able to get passed?

[Spirit of Hope]

Should we know govern by what the minority wants and not what the majority voted for?

Maybe we shouldn't just go strictly on what the majority, as embodied by the legislator, wants in every case? Maybe the point of having a legislative body is for their to be debate and reworking of laws to ensure that more than just the strict majorities desires are met?

[San Lumen]

Should we know govern by what the minority wants and not what the majority voted for?

Maybe we shouldn't just go strictly on what the majority, as embodied by the legislator, wants in every case? Maybe the point of having a legislative body is for their to be debate and reworking of laws to ensure that more than just the strict majorities desires are met?

Yes they should debate but obstructing the functioning of government isn't going to get anyone to want to work with you.

[Spirit of Hope]

Maybe we shouldn't just go strictly on what the majority, as embodied by the legislator, wants in every case? Maybe the point of having a legislative body is for their to be debate and reworking of laws to ensure that more than just the strict majorities desires are met?

Yes they should debate but obstructing the functioning of government isn't going to get anyone to want to work with you.

It may also be the only way to effectively get their voices heard and their concerns addressed. Protesters and picketers likewise often obstruct the functions of society in order to have their voices heard and their concerns addressed. Democrats in other states have obstructed the functioning of government in order to get their voices heard. Obstruction is a very useful tactic at times. Acting like it is some evil thing that should never be resorted to is rather silly.

[San Lumen]

Yes they should debate but obstructing the functioning of government isn't going to get anyone to want to work with you.

It may also be the only way to effectively get their voices heard and their concerns addressed. Protesters and picketers likewise often obstruct the functions of society in order to have their voices heard and their concerns addressed. Democrats in other states have obstructed the functioning of government in order to get their voices heard. Obstruction is a very useful tactic at times. Acting like it is some evil thing that should never be resorted to is rather silly.

Ok so how about in every state where this is possible the party that doesn't control the state legislature walk out and keep the government from functioning.

That's not a sustainable way to govern.

[Celritannia]

Then they should work on a compromise.

And if the minority refuses to compromise at all on certain bills that a majority wants they should not be able to get passed?

Subpoena them.