American Politics: Fiscal Cliffhanger

[San Lumen]

refusing to show up to session and grinding government to a halt is not doing their job. They don't get to hold the majority hostage because they don't like what a majority voted for.

Yes it is. Their job is to get legislation that their constituents passed passed and to block legislation that their constituents do not want to be passed. They are doing the latter by preventing quorum. They do indeed get to hold it hostage since elections have consequences and they have the numbers to prevent a quorum.

If the minority has this power why even bother having a democracy? Let the minority decide everything since land area matters more than population.

Screw quorum. I'd not only bar them from reelection i'd have the law be have the unexcused absences your no longer a member of the chamber.

[San Lumen]

Yes it is.

Repeating a lie does not make it true.

Tell me if Republicans in your state refused to show up for the entire session and nothing not even a state budget could get passed you'd be content even if it meant your roads would not get paved and other services would stop as they'd have no money?

Why would I be unhappy with the fucking party being useful for once? Of course I would be content, I would be ecstatic.

write a letter to the state GOP and and tell them to be Sinn Fein.

[Bombadil]

Take money out of politics - I'm pretty sure it's the basis for much of this crap. It's not votes they're too bothered about, it's political donations. More often that not they represent donor interest not voter interest.

How do you propose to do this?

Remove all outside money from politics. For each election you get:

State and National Level
A standardised website with your positions laid out (and voting record where applicable)
Includes a forum for debate
3 TV debates at primary and election level
Equal representation on TV/radio

Local level
A standardised website with your positions laid out
Includes a forum for debate
3 town hall debates at primary and election level
Equal representation on TV/radio

Essentially ensure accountability, rather than the freedom to just lie and bullshit and not even bother doing what you were technically elected to do.

[American Legionaries]

Repeating a lie does not make it true.


Why would I be unhappy with the fucking party being useful for once? Of course I would be content, I would be ecstatic.

write a letter to the state GOP and and tell them to be Sinn Fein.

Again?

[San Lumen]

How do you propose to do this?

Remove all outside money from politics. For each election you get:

State and National Level
A standardised website with your positions laid out (and voting record where applicable)
Includes a forum for debate
3 TV debates at primary and election level
Equal representation on TV/radio

Local level
A standardised website with your positions laid out
Includes a forum for debate
3 town hall debates at primary and election level
Equal representation on TV/radio

Essentially ensure accountability, rather than the freedom to just lie and bullshit and not even bother doing what you were technically elected to do.

Ads aren't free.

[Neutraligon]

Yes it is. Their job is to get legislation that their constituents passed passed and to block legislation that their constituents do not want to be passed. They are doing the latter by preventing quorum. They do indeed get to hold it hostage since elections have consequences and they have the numbers to prevent a quorum.

If the minority has this power why even bother having a democracy? Let the minority decide everything since land area matters more than population.

Screw quorum. I'd not only bar them from reelection i'd have the law be have the unexcused absences your no longer a member of the chamber.

The minority has this power because elections have consequences Lumen. This is the result of an election and so is a result of democracy. It bogles the mind that you cannot get this. Nice to know you do not support democracy. So...saying screw quorum would you be ok with say, a single GOP member showing up and ensuring that no dems can show up by blocking them from entering and so passing everything they want? Because quorum prevents that.

[Neutraligon]

How do you propose to do this?

Remove all outside money from politics. For each election you get:

State and National Level
A standardised website with your positions laid out (and voting record where applicable)
Includes a forum for debate
3 TV debates at primary and election level
Equal representation on TV/radio

Local level
A standardised website with your positions laid out
Includes a forum for debate
3 town hall debates at primary and election level
Equal representation on TV/radio

Essentially ensure accountability, rather than the freedom to just lie and bullshit and not even bother doing what you were technically elected to do.

And how would you deal with door to door and the like?

[San Lumen]

If the minority has this power why even bother having a democracy? Let the minority decide everything since land area matters more than population.

Screw quorum. I'd not only bar them from reelection i'd have the law be have the unexcused absences your no longer a member of the chamber.

The minority has this power because elections have consequences Lumen. This is the result of an election and so is a result of democracy. It bogles the mind that you cannot get this. Nice to know you do not support democracy. So...saying screw quorum would you be ok with say, a single GOP member showing up and ensuring that no dems can show up by blocking them from entering and so passing everything they want? Because quorum prevents that.

That person should be arrested. They should simply but into their platform they will be now be Sinn Fein as many of these districts would elect my dog as a Republican.

[Ors Might]

And we're telling you that your analogy is flawed. Listen to what people are saying, just fucking once.

The funny thing is I want those laws passed. I support what the dems want to do.

Honestly I can't even remember what the bill actually said. I might've even been in favor of it. But this was a rare instance of Republicans putting their ethical obligations to their voters ahead of what was convenient. Something we should want from representatives.

[American Legionaries]

Remove all outside money from politics. For each election you get:

State and National Level
A standardised website with your positions laid out (and voting record where applicable)
Includes a forum for debate
3 TV debates at primary and election level
Equal representation on TV/radio

Local level
A standardised website with your positions laid out
Includes a forum for debate
3 town hall debates at primary and election level
Equal representation on TV/radio

Essentially ensure accountability, rather than the freedom to just lie and bullshit and not even bother doing what you were technically elected to do.

And how would you deal with door to door and the like?

The easiest, and likely the fairest solution would be to just give every campaign a certain amount of money.

[San Lumen]

And how would you deal with door to door and the like?

The easiest, and likely the fairest solution would be to just give every campaign a certain amount of money.

That reasonable but the problem is some media markets are more expensive than others.

[American Legionaries]

The minority has this power because elections have consequences Lumen. This is the result of an election and so is a result of democracy. It bogles the mind that you cannot get this. Nice to know you do not support democracy. So...saying screw quorum would you be ok with say, a single GOP member showing up and ensuring that no dems can show up by blocking them from entering and so passing everything they want? Because quorum prevents that.

That person should be arrested. They should simply but into their platform they will be now be Sinn Fein as many of these districts would elect my dog as a Republican.

I mean, not your dog, but a dog...

[Neutraligon]

The minority has this power because elections have consequences Lumen. This is the result of an election and so is a result of democracy. It bogles the mind that you cannot get this. Nice to know you do not support democracy. So...saying screw quorum would you be ok with say, a single GOP member showing up and ensuring that no dems can show up by blocking them from entering and so passing everything they want? Because quorum prevents that.

That person should be arrested. They should simply but into their platform they will be now be Sinn Fein as many of these districts would elect my dog as a Republican.

Too bad, there was no quorum rule and so they made a rule that they cannot be arrested for doing so. It was voted upon and passed. And that is the choice of those in those districts. That is how a democracy works.

[American Legionaries]

The easiest, and likely the fairest solution would be to just give every campaign a certain amount of money.

That reasonable but the problem is some media markets are more expensive than others.

That's not a problem.

[San Lumen]

That person should be arrested. They should simply but into their platform they will be now be Sinn Fein as many of these districts would elect my dog as a Republican.

Too bad, there was no quorum rule and so they made a rule that they cannot be arrested for doing so. It was voted upon and passed. And that is the choice of those in those districts. That is how a democracy works.

except that's not the rule. I strongly suggest they adopt the policy of Sinn Fein. We will run for our seats and refuse to do the job once elected that will show those people on the coast in the river valley along with Ashland.

[Neutraligon]

The funny thing is I want those laws passed. I support what the dems want to do.

Honestly I can't even remember what the bill actually said. I might've even been in favor of it. But this was a rare instance of Republicans putting their ethical obligations to their voters ahead of what was convenient. Something we should want from representatives.

Two bills

Among the bills that Republicans deemed unfit is House Bill 2002, which offers more coverage for gender care and allows minors to get an abortion without notifying parents under Medicaid and private insurers. The bill would prohibit lawmakers from participating in an interstate investigation involving reproductive health and gender care treatment and bars subpoenas related to the matter on the individual seeking medical care.

I support this one

The other bill the Republicans are opposing is House Bill 2005, dubbed the gun violence prevention bill, which increases the age to purchase types of rifles and other guns to 21.

I oppose this one.

[Bombadil]

Ads aren't free.

I don't give a shit about ads.

And how would you deal with door to door and the like?

Yeah, previously on this I was unsure on door to door - i.e. get out the vote tactics, but I think public advertising could deal with that to a degree.

In terms of space to talk to your local politician to address grievances, time within legislative periods should be allocated to a politician being on the ground to allow for people to come in and air grievances in a public forum.

The easiest, and likely the fairest solution would be to just give every campaign a certain amount of money.

I'm ok with that as well.

[San Lumen]

Honestly I can't even remember what the bill actually said. I might've even been in favor of it. But this was a rare instance of Republicans putting their ethical obligations to their voters ahead of what was convenient. Something we should want from representatives.

Two bills

Among the bills that Republicans deemed unfit is House Bill 2002, which offers more coverage for gender care and allows minors to get an abortion without notifying parents under Medicaid and private insurers. The bill would prohibit lawmakers from participating in an interstate investigation involving reproductive health and gender care treatment and bars subpoenas related to the matter on the individual seeking medical care.

I support this one

The other bill the Republicans are opposing is House Bill 2005, dubbed the gun violence prevention bill, which increases the age to purchase types of rifles and other guns to 21.

I oppose this one.

and do a a majority support these bills? if so they are defeating the very purpose of democracy and having elections. They are preventing the majority from enacting what they were elected to do.

[Neutraligon]

Too bad, there was no quorum rule and so they made a rule that they cannot be arrested for doing so. It was voted upon and passed. And that is the choice of those in those districts. That is how a democracy works.

except that's not the rule. I strongly suggest they adopt the policy of Sinn Fein. We will run for our seats and refuse to do the job once elected that will show those people on the coast in the river valley along with Ashland.

You where the one that wanted to squash the quorum rule. Since you squashed that rule, ensuring that the opposition cannot show up suddenly becomes a very good thing to do. Then you can pass whatever the hell you want because look, nothing to block them from doing so.

[San Lumen]

except that's not the rule. I strongly suggest they adopt the policy of Sinn Fein. We will run for our seats and refuse to do the job once elected that will show those people on the coast in the river valley along with Ashland.

You where the one that wanted to squash the quorum rule. Since you squashed that rule, ensuring that the opposition cannot show up suddenly becomes a very good thing to do. Then you can pass whatever the hell you want because look, nothing to block them from doing so.

My state doesn't have a quorum rule and this has not occurred.

[Neutraligon]

Two bills

I support this one

I oppose this one.

and do a a majority support these bills? if so they are defeating the very purpose of democracy and having elections. They are preventing the majority from enacting what they were elected to do.

I would assume yes, however the constituents of those who walked out do not support those bills, and so they are representing their constituents and preventing those bills from being passed. It is precisely the job of the opposition to try and prevent the majority from enacting those laws.

[American Legionaries]

Two bills

I support this one

I oppose this one.

and do a a majority support these bills? if so they are defeating the very purpose of democracy and having elections. They are preventing the majority from enacting what they were elected to do.

A healthy democracy has mechanisms to halt the majority's will when needed.

[Neutraligon]

You where the one that wanted to squash the quorum rule. Since you squashed that rule, ensuring that the opposition cannot show up suddenly becomes a very good thing to do. Then you can pass whatever the hell you want because look, nothing to block them from doing so.

My state doesn't have a quorum rule and this has not occurred.

Yes they do.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/re ... ns/2021/r2

§ 2. Quorum. a. A majority of all the Senators elected shall
constitute a quorum to do business. In case a less number than a quorum
of the Senate shall convene, those present are authorized to send the
Sergeant at Arms, or any other person, for the absent Senators.

[Incelastan]

Two bills

I support this one

I oppose this one.

and do a a majority support these bills? if so they are defeating the very purpose of democracy and having elections. They are preventing the majority from enacting what they were elected to do.

But they are, at least in theory, expected to vote as their own constituents wish. You can vote as the overall majority wishes, but the consequence is that your own voters in your own district could fire you for defying them in favor of the overall public.

[San Lumen]

and do a a majority support these bills? if so they are defeating the very purpose of democracy and having elections. They are preventing the majority from enacting what they were elected to do.

I would assume yes, however the constituents of those who walked out do not support those bills, and so they are representing their constituents and preventing those bills from being passed. It is precisely the job of the opposition to try and prevent the majority from enacting those laws.

Therefore why even bother having a democracy, equal representation or elections if the minority can prevent the elected legislature from functioning?

My state doesn't have a quorum rule and this has not occurred.

Yes they do.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/re ... ns/2021/r2

§ 2. Quorum. a. A majority of all the Senators elected shall
constitute a quorum to do business. In case a less number than a quorum
of the Senate shall convene, those present are authorized to send the
Sergeant at Arms, or any other person, for the absent Senators.

and that would be 31 members out of 63. Democrats currently have 42 seats. Even if every Republican refused to show up the business of government would proceed without them.