American Politics: Fiscal Cliffhanger

[American Legionaries]

The voters are the boss of their representative. The voters were best represented by their representative not showing up. Thus the representatives were doing what their boss wanted. What part of this are you not getting?

The question is, what evidence is there that a majority of the voters in those districts wanted their representatives to not show up? When one elects a representative, the default position would be that they represent the voters in the legislature; there needs to be some reason to presume that is not the case.

Usually elections are the evidence in question.

[Incelastan]

Why don't you start refusing to do your job and demand you still get payed?

If my boss said not to clock in, I wouldn't clock in.

True.

[Pizza Friday Forever91]

I think Robert Byrd during his time as I believe senate majority leader arrested all of the republicans to bring them back for a vote during like, the 80s

Did he use the sergeant-at-arms? Or the Capitol Hill Police?

iirc, he used the sergeant at arms to issue arrest warrants for the senate republicans who refused to show up, and I believe that group included history-channel hater Chuck Grassley.

[Ors Might]

The voters are the boss of their representative. The voters were best represented by their representative not showing up. Thus the representatives were doing what their boss wanted. What part of this are you not getting?

The question is, what evidence is there that a majority of the voters in those districts wanted their representatives to not show up? When one elects a representative, the default position would be that they represent the voters in the legislature; there needs to be some reason to presume that is not the case.

I think the default is that they represent the will of the voters. Regardless, if what they did was against the will of the majority of their voters, that would be represented in the election results. Which I would be fine with.

[Incelastan]

Did he use the sergeant-at-arms? Or the Capitol Hill Police?

iirc, he used the sergeant at arms to issue arrest warrants for the senate republicans who refused to show up, and I believe that group included history-channel hater Chuck Grassley.

Ah, my old Senator....not happy that he used to be Klan, but moments like this make me feel better that he represented my native state. Also not happy about all of the pork, but to be fair, West Virginia is a chronically depressed state that could always use more jobs.

[Bombadil]

I think a balance needs to be struck between allowing for government to operate and a mechanism to dissent. It's a democracy, not a kindergarten, and alas some aspects of decisions within a democracy aren't to everyone's taste.

What do you suggest?

Take money out of politics - I'm pretty sure it's the basis for much of this crap. It's not votes they're too bothered about, it's political donations. More often that not they represent donor interest not voter interest.

[San Lumen]

Why don't you start refusing to do your job and demand you still get payed?

If my boss said not to clock in, I wouldn't clock in.

That is not what's being discussed here. I am talking about you refusing to clock in at all and demanding you get payed and keep your job.

[San Lumen]

The question is, what evidence is there that a majority of the voters in those districts wanted their representatives to not show up? When one elects a representative, the default position would be that they represent the voters in the legislature; there needs to be some reason to presume that is not the case.

I think the default is that they represent the will of the voters. Regardless, if what they did was against the will of the majority of their voters, that would be represented in the election results. Which I would be fine with.

Some of these districts are so red you could nominate one of my dogs and they'd be elected. These people are not going to lose a general election.

[Shrillland]

iirc, he used the sergeant at arms to issue arrest warrants for the senate republicans who refused to show up, and I believe that group included history-channel hater Chuck Grassley.

Ah, my old Senator....not happy that he used to be Klan, but moments like this make me feel better that he represented my native state. Also not happy about all of the pork, but to be fair, West Virginia is a chronically depressed state that could always use more jobs.

Pork barrel spending has honestly never bothered me. We've had a lot of infrastructure projects funded by it, and its loss as a concept is sadly missed as our roads, ports, rails, and wires crumble worse than a dry strudel.

[San Lumen]

What do you suggest?

Take money out of politics - I'm pretty sure it's the basis for much of this crap. It's not votes they're too bothered about, it's political donations. More often that not they represent donor interest not voter interest.

How do you propose to do this?

[Neutraligon]

I think the default is that they represent the will of the voters. Regardless, if what they did was against the will of the majority of their voters, that would be represented in the election results. Which I would be fine with.

Some of these districts are so red you could nominate one of my dogs and they'd be elected. These people are not going to lose a general election.

And? That is the choice of the people in that district.

[American Legionaries]

If my boss said not to clock in, I wouldn't clock in.

That is not what's being discussed here. I am talking about you refusing to clock in at all and demanding you get payed and keep your job.

Why don't we talk about what's actually happening, though?

[San Lumen]

That is not what's being discussed here. I am talking about you refusing to clock in at all and demanding you get payed and keep your job.

Why don't we talk about what's actually happening, though?

And why don't you address my point? do you think you should be able to continue to get payed and keep a job you refuse to do at all?

[American Legionaries]

Why don't we talk about what's actually happening, though?

And why don't you address my point? do you think you should be able to continue to get payed and keep a job you refuse to do at all?

You need to have a point before I can address it. Your inapplicable hypothetical isn't a point, it's a lie, an intentional one given that why it's untrue has been repeatedly explained to you.

[Neutraligon]

Why don't we talk about what's actually happening, though?

And why don't you address my point? do you think you should be able to continue to get payed and keep a job you refuse to do at all?

Since I support people being able to strike and hence strike funds being a thing...depending on the circumstances, yes. I also support vacation days.

[San Lumen]

And why don't you address my point? do you think you should be able to continue to get payed and keep a job you refuse to do at all?

You need to have a point before I can address it. Your inapplicable hypothetical isn't a point, it's a lie, an intentional one given that why it's untrue has been repeatedly explained to you.

My point is these legislators are refusing to do the job they were hired to do and therefore should not be allowed to remain in the position.

[Neutraligon]

You need to have a point before I can address it. Your inapplicable hypothetical isn't a point, it's a lie, an intentional one given that why it's untrue has been repeatedly explained to you.

My point is these legislators are refusing to do the job they were hired to do and therefore should not be allowed to remain in the position.

And has been pointed out to you, the people who hired them (their constituents) get to decide that in an election. Oh and they are still doing their job, that too.

[San Lumen]

My point is these legislators are refusing to do the job they were hired to do and therefore should not be allowed to remain in the position.

And has been pointed out to you, the people who hired them (their constituents) get to decide that in an election. Oh and they are still doing their job, that too.

refusing to show up to session and grinding government to a halt is not doing their job. They don't get to hold the majority hostage because they don't like what a majority voted for.

[American Legionaries]

You need to have a point before I can address it. Your inapplicable hypothetical isn't a point, it's a lie, an intentional one given that why it's untrue has been repeatedly explained to you.

My point is these legislators are refusing to do the job they were hired to do and therefore should not be allowed to remain in the position.

This isn't true, and therefore not a point.

[Neutraligon]

And has been pointed out to you, the people who hired them (their constituents) get to decide that in an election. Oh and they are still doing their job, that too.

refusing to show up to session and grinding government to a halt is not doing their job. They don't get to hold the majority hostage because they don't like what a majority voted for.

Yes it is. Their job is to get legislation that their constituents want passed and to block legislation that their constituents do not want to be passed. They are doing the latter by preventing quorum. They do indeed get to hold it hostage since elections have consequences and they have the numbers to prevent a quorum.

[San Lumen]

My point is these legislators are refusing to do the job they were hired to do and therefore should not be allowed to remain in the position.

This isn't true, and therefore not a point.

Yes it is. Tell me if Republicans in your state refused to show up for the entire session and nothing not even a state budget could get passed you'd be content even if it meant your roads would not get paved and other services would stop as they'd have no money?

[Incelastan]

Ah, my old Senator....not happy that he used to be Klan, but moments like this make me feel better that he represented my native state. Also not happy about all of the pork, but to be fair, West Virginia is a chronically depressed state that could always use more jobs.

Pork barrel spending has honestly never bothered me. We've had a lot of infrastructure projects funded by it, and its loss as a concept is sadly missed as our roads, ports, rails, and wires crumble worse than a dry strudel.

A very reasonable point, actually. And frankly, for instance, bases have to be located....somewhere.

[Ors Might]

If my boss said not to clock in, I wouldn't clock in.

That is not what's being discussed here. I am talking about you refusing to clock in at all and demanding you get payed and keep your job.

And we're telling you that your analogy is flawed. Listen to what people are saying, just fucking once.

[American Legionaries]

This isn't true, and therefore not a point.

Yes it is.

Repeating a lie does not make it true.

Tell me if Republicans in your state refused to show up for the entire session and nothing not even a state budget could get passed you'd be content even if it meant your roads would not get paved and other services would stop as they'd have no money?

Why would I be unhappy with the fucking party being useful for once? Of course I would be content, I would be ecstatic.

[Neutraligon]

That is not what's being discussed here. I am talking about you refusing to clock in at all and demanding you get payed and keep your job.

And we're telling you that your analogy is flawed. Listen to what people are saying, just fucking once.

The funny thing is I want those laws passed. I support what the dems want to do.