American Politics: Fiscal Cliffhanger

[Washington Resistance Army]

Also, people have yet to answer whether shouting and screaming that you're hungry is justified for being held in a chokehold at all. Why did Penny feel the need to restrain Neely? What reason was there?

We don't know, because there isn't a full video of the entire encounter and the preceding minutes like there was with, say, the Rittenhouse case where we could watch the entire incident and see that he was clearly in the right before the trial even started. Which is where the justice system then comes into play, investigations need to occur and witnesses need to give testimony. There are no small number of situations where it is perfectly reasonable and legal to restrain someone else in public and it'll be up to the jury and the court to figure out both if this was one of those situations and if Penny should be deemed guilty or not for Neely's death. That's how justice works in a civilized society.

[Urkennalaid]

Also, people have yet to answer whether shouting and screaming that you're hungry is justified for being held in a chokehold at all. Why did Penny feel the need to restrain Neely? What reason was there?

We don't know, because there isn't a full video of the entire encounter and the preceding minutes like there was with, say, the Rittenhouse case where we could watch the entire incident and see that he was clearly in the right before the trial even started. Which is where the justice system then comes into play, investigations need to occur and witnesses need to give testimony. There are no small number of situations where it is perfectly reasonable and legal to restrain someone else in public and it'll be up to the jury and the court to figure out both if this was one of those situations and if Penny should be deemed guilty or not for Neely's death. That's how justice works in a civilized society.

So again, do you find the situation that happened justiies Penny's response? Do you find yelling that you're hungry an offense where you need to be restrained in a chokehold? Also, just because Penny hasn't been in court yet doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on him and if he should be arrested or not. Literally everyone does that.

[El Lazaro]

“Insert group here” is bad because some small non representative portion of the group has done bad things!!

I think you are being inflammatory intentionally. That’s the comparison he made.

Not really. I just genuinely hate the imperialist military complex the US has thats done incredible harm to innocent people. As a leftist that's just always been a take I've had.

Hating veterans does incredible harm to innocent people who get screwed over by the “imperialist military complex” you pretend to oppose. You just hate America and poor people.

[Urkennalaid]

Not really. I just genuinely hate the imperialist military complex the US has thats done incredible harm to innocent people. As a leftist that's just always been a take I've had.

Hating veterans does incredible harm to innocent people who get screwed over by the “imperialist military complex” you pretend to oppose. You just hate America and poor people.

Bro what? How many people have I personally pissed off for them to be attacking me in multiple threads accusing me that I hate poor people, that I'm just like Emmet Till's murderers and that I'm evil lmao. So do the veterans who regret their service and shit on the military also hate on poor people? Do you think there are no poor people who hate the miltiary? I literally live check to check but I guess I hate the poor for...hating the military?

Also yes I unironically hate America that part is true.

[Washington Resistance Army]

We don't know, because there isn't a full video of the entire encounter and the preceding minutes like there was with, say, the Rittenhouse case where we could watch the entire incident and see that he was clearly in the right before the trial even started. Which is where the justice system then comes into play, investigations need to occur and witnesses need to give testimony. There are no small number of situations where it is perfectly reasonable and legal to restrain someone else in public and it'll be up to the jury and the court to figure out both if this was one of those situations and if Penny should be deemed guilty or not for Neely's death. That's how justice works in a civilized society.

So again, do you find the situation that happened justiies Penny's response? Do you find yelling that you're hungry an offense where you need to be restrained in a chokehold? Also, just because Penny hasn't been in court yet doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on him and if he should be arrested or not. Literally everyone does that.

You could at least pretend to have read the post you're responding to.

[American Legionaries]

The comparison is not that Penny is similar to the people who lynched Till, but rather that Urkennalaid is. He hears an accusation, and leaps to the conclusion of guilt and a penalty of death because he has pre-existant bigotry towards who Penny is. Just as Till's murderers heard an accusation and lept to the conclusion of guilt and a penalty of death because they had pre-existing bigotry towards who Till was.

Comparing me to the people who killed Emmet Till, especially since I'm black is fucking disgusting.

I don't see how your skin color relates to the morality of your behavior.

Wanting justice for Neely's death isn't the same as brutalizing an innconent young black baby simply for being black.

I've never said it was, I want justice for Mr. Neely, and I support other people who want justice for Mr. Neely.

That's fucking disgusting and goes beyond just a simple little insult. Completely gross. Fucking shameful.

Like holy fuck, that's just fucking evil man lmao.

I agree on all points, you ought to not say such things in the future.

[Urkennalaid]

So again, do you find the situation that happened justiies Penny's response? Do you find yelling that you're hungry an offense where you need to be restrained in a chokehold? Also, just because Penny hasn't been in court yet doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on him and if he should be arrested or not. Literally everyone does that.

You could at least pretend to have read the post you're responding to.[/quote

You said there a small number of situations where it is legal to restrain someone, I'm asking you, do you find what Penny did in that situation as reasonable? Do yoy think Neely, who screamed that he was hungry, was justified getting restrained?

I read what you said, I'm just asking a question based off your response.

[Washington Resistance Army]

You said there a small number of situations where it is legal to restrain someone, I'm asking you, do you find what Penny did in that situation as reasonable? Do yoy think Neely, who screamed that he was hungry, was justified getting restrained?

I read what you said, I'm just asking a question based off your response.

We don't know, because there isn't a full video of the entire encounter and the preceding minutes like there was with

[Tarsonis]

I will say the situation isn't similar. Penny didn't hunt Neely down in the middle of the night, with premeditated racial violence, on the mind . There was an altercation on a train, that led up to the event. There's no evidence to suggest the crime was racially motivated, Neely wasn't just minding his own business and got attacked out the blue. There's no evidence Penny even intended to kill Neely. This narrative is being inserted to the even by people with vested interest in turning Penny into a scapegoat for their political agendas.

The comparison is not that Penny is similar to the people who lynched Till, but rather that Urkennalaid is. He hears an accusation, and leaps to the conclusion of guilt and a penalty of death because he has pre-existant bigotry towards who Penny is. Just as Till's murderers heard an accusation and lept to the conclusion of guilt and a penalty of death because they had pre-existing bigotry towards who Till was.

Ah then yea

[Urkennalaid]

Comparing me to the people who killed Emmet Till, especially since I'm black is fucking disgusting.

I don't see how your skin color relates to the morality of your behavior.

Wanting justice for Neely's death isn't the same as brutalizing an innconent young black baby simply for being black.

I've never said it was, I want justice for Mr. Neely, and I support other people who want justice for Mr. Neely.

That's fucking disgusting and goes beyond just a simple little insult. Completely gross. Fucking shameful.

Like holy fuck, that's just fucking evil man lmao.

I agree on all points, you ought to not say such things in the future.

"Morality of my behavior" Me saying I want Neely to be punished on an internet forum isn't the same as LITERALLY BUTCHERING A BLACK BABY. Jesus fucking christ, at this point I'd rather you just stop reaponding to me at all, cause this is just fucking disgusting and you're just being a weirdo at this point. Thanks.

[Urkennalaid]

You said there a small number of situations where it is legal to restrain someone, I'm asking you, do you find what Penny did in that situation as reasonable? Do yoy think Neely, who screamed that he was hungry, was justified getting restrained?

I read what you said, I'm just asking a question based off your response.

We don't know, because there isn't a full video of the entire encounter and the preceding minutes like there was with

You still can't answer? We know the details of what happened. I'm just genuinely asking if you think whether what Penny did was justified?

[American Legionaries]

I don't see how your skin color relates to the morality of your behavior.



I've never said it was, I want justice for Mr. Neely, and I support other people who want justice for Mr. Neely.



I agree on all points, you ought to not say such things in the future.

"Morality of my behavior" Me saying I want Neely to be punished on an internet forum isn't the same as LITERALLY BUTCHERING A BLACK BABY. Jesus fucking christ, at this point I'd rather you just stop reaponding to me at all, cause this is just fucking disgusting and you're just being a weirdo at this point. Thanks.

It's possible for two different things to both share the trait of being immoral.

[Umeria]

Hating veterans does incredible harm to innocent people who get screwed over by the “imperialist military complex” you pretend to oppose. You just hate America and poor people.

Bro what? How many people have I personally pissed off for them to be attacking me in multiple threads accusing me that I hate poor people, that I'm just like Emmet Till's murderers and that I'm evil lmao. So do the veterans who regret their service and shit on the military also hate on poor people? Do you think there are no poor people who hate the miltiary? I literally live check to check but I guess I hate the poor for...hating the military?

Also yes I unironically hate America that part is true.

My grandfather served in the military and was quite proud of it. He didn't commit any war crimes. Do you hate him.

[Washington Resistance Army]

You still can't answer? We know the details of what happened.

What was Neely doing 4 minutes and 27 seconds before being restrained?

[Urkennalaid]

"Morality of my behavior" Me saying I want Neely to be punished on an internet forum isn't the same as LITERALLY BUTCHERING A BLACK BABY. Jesus fucking christ, at this point I'd rather you just stop reaponding to me at all, cause this is just fucking disgusting and you're just being a weirdo at this point. Thanks.

It's possible for two different things to both share the trait of being immoral.

It's not even the same level and comparing it is just disgusting. An internet comment calling for a guy to face justice is the same as a white community lynching an innocent black kid.

Get over yourself and leave me alone.

[Jellian Federation]

I don't see how your skin color relates to the morality of your behavior.



I've never said it was, I want justice for Mr. Neely, and I support other people who want justice for Mr. Neely.



I agree on all points, you ought to not say such things in the future.

"Morality of my behavior" Me saying I want Neely to be punished on an internet forum isn't the same as LITERALLY BUTCHERING A BLACK BABY. Jesus fucking christ, at this point I'd rather you just stop reaponding to me at all, cause this is just fucking disgusting and you're just being a weirdo at this point. Thanks.

The poor guy was 30,
What do you mean when you say baby.

[Urkennalaid]

"Morality of my behavior" Me saying I want Neely to be punished on an internet forum isn't the same as LITERALLY BUTCHERING A BLACK BABY. Jesus fucking christ, at this point I'd rather you just stop reaponding to me at all, cause this is just fucking disgusting and you're just being a weirdo at this point. Thanks.

The poor guy was 30,
What do you mean when you say baby.

We were talking about Emmet Till too, and American Legionaire is saying I'm the same as his murderers for calling for Penny to face justice.

[Urkennalaid]

You still can't answer? We know the details of what happened.

What was Neely doing 4 minutes and 27 seconds before being restrained?

Based off of reporting, shouting in the subway train and shouting how he was hungry and wanted food.

[American Legionaries]

The poor guy was 30,
What do you mean when you say baby.

We were talking about Emmet Till too, and American Legionaire is saying I'm the same as his murderers for calling for Penny to face justice.

You're not calling for Penny to face justice, you're calling for Penny to be murdered on account of being a military veteran. You have also gone on to call for the murder of all people who are military veterans.

It would actually be quite refreshing if you would abandon your hate and actually desire justice.

[El Lazaro]

Hating veterans does incredible harm to innocent people who get screwed over by the “imperialist military complex” you pretend to oppose. You just hate America and poor people.

Bro what? How many people have I personally pissed off for them to be attacking me in multiple threads accusing me that I hate poor people, that I'm just like Emmet Till's murderers and that I'm evil lmao. So do the veterans who regret their service and shit on the military also hate on poor people? Do you think there are no poor people who hate the miltiary? I literally live check to check but I guess I hate the poor for...hating the military?

Also yes I unironically hate America that part is true.

You hate all veterans, not just those who don’t regret their service. So no, they probably don’t share your delusional, spiteful takes.

I would assume you’ve never had to resort to risking your life for your country from how much you hate veterans, but tankie hypocrisy tends to be pretty astounding.

[Washington Resistance Army]

What was Neely doing 4 minutes and 27 seconds before being restrained?

Based off of reporting, shouting in the subway train and shouting how he was hungry and wanted food.

The correct answer is "I don't know for certain because there's no video". Which is why it's important for a trial to happen and witnesses to come in and testify. There are situations where restraining Neely could have been entirely justified, and there are situations where it would have been entirely unjustified and criminal. We don't have visual evidence supporting either assertion, so the jury will have to hear from everyone and make their choice. Which is probably why most people on NSG haven't commented on the incident until the charges were filed, there just wasn't and isn't enough info to make a judgement call as a third party in this case.

[Tarsonis]

The comparison is not that Penny is similar to the people who lynched Till, but rather that Urkennalaid is. He hears an accusation, and leaps to the conclusion of guilt and a penalty of death because he has pre-existant bigotry towards who Penny is. Just as Till's murderers heard an accusation and lept to the conclusion of guilt and a penalty of death because they had pre-existing bigotry towards who Till was.

Comparing me to the people who killed Emmet Till, especially since I'm black is fucking disgusting. Wanting justice for Neely's death isn't the same as brutalizing an innconent young black baby simply for being black. That's fucking disgusting and goes beyond just a simple little insult. Completely gross. Fucking shameful.

Like holy fuck, that's just fucking evil man lmao.

You're not interested in justice, you're not interested in the facts of the case, you want to hurt Penny. it's fairly obvious

[Cannot think of a name]

See, this right here lends more credence to the whole lynch mob thing. If you watch the longest versions of the incident available online the other man helping Penny restrain him says at least once or twice that Penny has let off the grip and is merely restraining or holding Neely and not choking him when a bystander shows concern. This is very likely why it's only second-degree manslaughter instead of any sort of murder, and depending on witness testimony could likely help Penny be deemed not guilty. But you don't care about actual justice or the facts of the case, you just hate Penny and want him to suffer.

Did I personally offend you guys for shitting on Neely? Jesus christ lmao. So, are you saying Neely didn't die from the chokehold but something else?

Also, people have yet to answer whether shouting and screaming that you're hungry is justified for being held in a chokehold at all. Why did Penny feel the need to restrain Neely? What reason was there?

Well, here's the thing. They're in an untenable position. Jumping to the defense of a person who choked out a man on the subway, especially a white man choking out a black homeless man...that's some awkward shit. But as has been noted, the right wing blathersphere has apparently done just that. If they admit that's pants on head bonkers, they might have to admit that anything else that comes down that pike is also crazy and maybe even have to examine their world view.

Can't have that.

So you came along and gave them one desperate, kind of obvious lifeline. You got extra spicy about veterans. Now it doesn't have to be about a white man choking out a black homeless man on the subway, or the slow move for justice, or even the attempts to villianise the homeless man, it can be about your outsized attitude towards veterans and the US in general. Are those points really germane? No, not really, but you spiced up your posts with it and so they grabbed that last hope of legitimacy and ran with it...going so far as to say that wanting justice making you akin to lynchers. Is that a completely clownshoes and desperate comparison that makes them look tastelesss and tone deaf? Oh my, yes. Kind of threw up in my mouth a little. But then they casually compare themselves to holocaust victims because they can't buy all the guns, so tone deaf and tasteless is their brand. But as long as they can grab on to your spicier extra commentary, they get to pretend they're the real victims here. Clown shoes as it is. Welcome to the internet.

For the record, the extra commentary where you try to play a one man game of top trumps on how much you hate veterans etc comes off more attention seeking than anything worth discussing, but that's why it makes such an attractive target for people themselves trying to defend something indefensible.

[Rusozak]

I don't see how your skin color relates to the morality of your behavior.



I've never said it was, I want justice for Mr. Neely, and I support other people who want justice for Mr. Neely.



I agree on all points, you ought to not say such things in the future.

"Morality of my behavior" Me saying I want Neely to be punished on an internet forum isn't the same as LITERALLY BUTCHERING A BLACK BABY. Jesus fucking christ, at this point I'd rather you just stop reaponding to me at all, cause this is just fucking disgusting and you're just being a weirdo at this point. Thanks.

Is this a satire account? Did we all get Algerstonia'd?

[Tarsonis]

Did I personally offend you guys for shitting on Neely? Jesus christ lmao. So, are you saying Neely didn't die from the chokehold but something else?

Also, people have yet to answer whether shouting and screaming that you're hungry is justified for being held in a chokehold at all. Why did Penny feel the need to restrain Neely? What reason was there?

Well, here's the thing. They're in an untenable position. Jumping to the defense of a person who choked out a man on the subway, especially a white man choking out a black homeless man...that's some awkward shit. But as has been noted, the right wing blathersphere has apparently done just that. If they admit that's pants on head bonkers, they might have to admit that anything else that comes down that pike is also crazy and maybe even have to examine their world view.

Can't have that.

So you came along and gave them one desperate, kind of obvious lifeline. You got extra spicy about veterans. Now it doesn't have to be about a white man choking out a black homeless man on the subway, or the slow move for justice, or even the attempts to villianise the homeless man, it can be about your outsized attitude towards veterans and the US in general. Are those points really germane? No, not really, but you spiced up your posts with it and so they grabbed that last hope of legitimacy and ran with it...going so far as to say that wanting justice making you akin to lynchers. Is that a completely clownshoes and desperate comparison that makes them look tastelesss and tone deaf? Oh my, yes. Kind of threw up in my mouth a little. But then they casually compare themselves to holocaust victims because they can't buy all the guns, so tone deaf and tasteless is their brand. But as long as they can grab on to your spicier extra commentary, they get to pretend they're the real victims here. Clown shoes as it is. Welcome to the internet.

For the record, the extra commentary where you try to play a one man game of top trumps on how much you hate veterans etc comes off more attention seeking than anything worth discussing, but that's why it makes such an attractive target for people themselves trying to defend something indefensible.

Nobody here has defended Penny's actions, far as I can tell.