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American Politics: Indictments Galore

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Will The US Raise The Debt Ceiling Using the House Proposal as The Basis?

Yes
68
41%
No
44
27%
IDK/Other
53
32%
 
Total votes : 165

User avatar
Zurkerx
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 10942
Founded: Jan 20, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Zurkerx » Thu May 11, 2023 9:45 am

Shrillland wrote:
The Jamesian Republic wrote:
He is still living in denial about 2020.


Moreover, everyone who was there cheered. I saw a piece of Vox that basically discusses why that is far more important. Effectively, we, the people against Trump, the media establishment, all those election officials who certified Biden's win, we are the new November Criminals.


Basically, we got a large target on our backs then. It should be clear though that the crowd was mostly comprised of GOP Voters, but it's still a terrifying prospect: because if this is how the rest of the country feels (we need some better statistics), then we're in trouble.
A Golden Civic: The New Pragmatic Libertarian
My Words: Indeed, Indubitably & Malarkey
Retired Admin in NSGS and NS Parliament

Accountant, Author, History Buff, Political Junkie
“Has ambition so eclipsed principle?” ~ Mitt Romney
"Try not to become a person of success, but rather try to become a person of value." ~ Albert Einstein
"Trust, but verify." ~ Ronald Reagan

User avatar
Caurus
Secretary
 
Posts: 39
Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Caurus » Thu May 11, 2023 9:45 am

Pizza Friday Forever91 wrote:Fort Benning has been renamed to Fort Moore https://www.northwestgeorgianews.com/ro ... c7d2a.html


Lt. Gen. Moore is an excellent choice for a the name. He has an Army Distinguished Service Cross, a Legion of Merit with two bronze oak leaf clusters, and a Bronze Star Medal with "V" Device and three bronze Oak Leaf Clusters.

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The Jamesian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13870
Founded: Apr 28, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Jamesian Republic » Thu May 11, 2023 9:49 am

Zurkerx wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
Moreover, everyone who was there cheered. I saw a piece of Vox that basically discusses why that is far more important. Effectively, we, the people against Trump, the media establishment, all those election officials who certified Biden's win, we are the new November Criminals.


Basically, we got a large target on our backs then. It should be clear though that the crowd was mostly comprised of GOP Voters, but it's still a terrifying prospect: because if this is how the rest of the country feels (we need some better statistics), then we're in trouble.


What do you think will happen?

User avatar
Shrillland
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21036
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Shrillland » Thu May 11, 2023 9:53 am

The Jamesian Republic wrote:
Zurkerx wrote:
Basically, we got a large target on our backs then. It should be clear though that the crowd was mostly comprised of GOP Voters, but it's still a terrifying prospect: because if this is how the rest of the country feels (we need some better statistics), then we're in trouble.


What do you think will happen?


God knows at this point. We're still 18 months away, but unless this debt mess is cleared up and the economy can get back on the right track, Trump will be back. At this point, I do not think Desantis can win unless he makes a stellar showing in the debates, and that's not until August.
How America Came to This, by Kowani: Racialised Politics, Ideological Media Gaslighting, and What It All Means For The Future
Plebiscite Plaza 2023
Confused by the names I use for House districts? Here's a primer!
In 1963, Doctor Who taught us all we need to know about politics when a cave woman said, "Old men see no further than tomorrow's meat".

User avatar
Caurus
Secretary
 
Posts: 39
Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Caurus » Thu May 11, 2023 9:53 am

Zurkerx wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
Moreover, everyone who was there cheered. I saw a piece of Vox that basically discusses why that is far more important. Effectively, we, the people against Trump, the media establishment, all those election officials who certified Biden's win, we are the new November Criminals.


Basically, we got a large target on our backs then. It should be clear though that the crowd was mostly comprised of GOP Voters, but it's still a terrifying prospect: because if this is how the rest of the country feels (we need some better statistics), then we're in trouble.


I just can't understand how someone so antithetical to the values nominally espoused by modern American conservatism could hold so much sway. I mean, on a logical level, sure, I understand how, demagoguery and all that, and I even said those values are nominal, but the fact that he enjoys a near messianic level of regard is so utterly mind boggling at the same time.

User avatar
The Orson Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31403
Founded: Mar 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Orson Empire » Thu May 11, 2023 9:53 am

Zurkerx wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
Moreover, everyone who was there cheered. I saw a piece of Vox that basically discusses why that is far more important. Effectively, we, the people against Trump, the media establishment, all those election officials who certified Biden's win, we are the new November Criminals.


Basically, we got a large target on our backs then. It should be clear though that the crowd was mostly comprised of GOP Voters, but it's still a terrifying prospect: because if this is how the rest of the country feels (we need some better statistics), then we're in trouble.

It isn't. The crowd was purposefully stacked with GOP voters. Regardless, even at the height of Trump's popularity in 2016, he still lost the popular vote, and only became president due to our archaic, anti-democratic Electoral College system.

CNN is no better than Fox News now.

User avatar
El Lazaro
Senator
 
Posts: 4551
Founded: Oct 19, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby El Lazaro » Thu May 11, 2023 9:53 am

The Jamesian Republic wrote:
Zurkerx wrote:
Basically, we got a large target on our backs then. It should be clear though that the crowd was mostly comprised of GOP Voters, but it's still a terrifying prospect: because if this is how the rest of the country feels (we need some better statistics), then we're in trouble.


What do you think will happen?

If the GOP gets the chance to run the country alone like they want to, then LGBT people and immigrants won't be the only targets of their purges.

User avatar
Alkmaaria
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 134
Founded: Sep 09, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Alkmaaria » Thu May 11, 2023 9:55 am

Shrillland wrote:Another state and another measure joins the Plaza, and this time it's pretty major.

Ohio: Ohio will be voting on August 8 on an amendment that would raise the threshold for approving constitutional amendments from a simple majority to a 60% majority.

Sounds like a good idea.
THis is a signature

User avatar
Shrillland
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21036
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Shrillland » Thu May 11, 2023 9:55 am

Caurus wrote:
Zurkerx wrote:
Basically, we got a large target on our backs then. It should be clear though that the crowd was mostly comprised of GOP Voters, but it's still a terrifying prospect: because if this is how the rest of the country feels (we need some better statistics), then we're in trouble.


I just can't understand how someone so antithetical to the values nominally espoused by modern American conservatism could hold so much sway. I mean, on a logical level, sure, I understand how, demagoguery and all that, and I even said those values are nominal, but the fact that he enjoys a near messianic level of regard is so utterly mind boggling at the same time.


It's the culmination of 60+ years of the right creating its own reality via its own news media gaslighting the public into thinking it alone is right.
How America Came to This, by Kowani: Racialised Politics, Ideological Media Gaslighting, and What It All Means For The Future
Plebiscite Plaza 2023
Confused by the names I use for House districts? Here's a primer!
In 1963, Doctor Who taught us all we need to know about politics when a cave woman said, "Old men see no further than tomorrow's meat".

User avatar
The Orson Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31403
Founded: Mar 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Orson Empire » Thu May 11, 2023 9:56 am

Caurus wrote:
Zurkerx wrote:
Basically, we got a large target on our backs then. It should be clear though that the crowd was mostly comprised of GOP Voters, but it's still a terrifying prospect: because if this is how the rest of the country feels (we need some better statistics), then we're in trouble.


I just can't understand how someone so antithetical to the values nominally espoused by modern American conservatism could hold so much sway. I mean, on a logical level, sure, I understand how, demagoguery and all that, and I even said those values are nominal, but the fact that he enjoys a near messianic level of regard is so utterly mind boggling at the same time.

Those are the values held by modern-day conservatives. The Republican Party has wholeheartedly embraced fascism.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159011
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Thu May 11, 2023 9:56 am

Elwher wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Is there any other kind of medical care that has access limited on the basis of age alone? Like, do American doctors refuse to perform appendectomies on anyone under the age of 18?


Except in cases of immediate emmenint harm, they require parental consent to do so. I would have no problem with the same being the case here.

Doctors must receive the informed consent of patients before performing medical procedures, that's true. Patients must understand what is going to be done to them and what the associated risks are. But while younger children might not be able to understand much of anything about surgery, I don't think any doctor would schedule a teenager for surgery without sitting down with them and explaining the procedure. And I certainly don't think a doctor would go ahead with surgery against the wishes of a teenage patient but with the approval of their parents. And I'm sure that there are cases where doctors will go ahead with a procedure with the permission of a teenaged patient but against the wishes or without the knowledge of their parents. Abortions being an obvious example. So I find it hard to believe that there is no possibility for nuance in the law when it comes specifically to transition related surgery.

User avatar
Zurkerx
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 10942
Founded: Jan 20, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Zurkerx » Thu May 11, 2023 9:58 am

Shrillland wrote:
The Jamesian Republic wrote:
What do you think will happen?


God knows at this point. We're still 18 months away, but unless this debt mess is cleared up and the economy can get back on the right track, Trump will be back. At this point, I do not think Desantis can win unless he makes a stellar showing in the debates, and that's not until August.


I'm not even sure if that will be enough: the GOP Base is hellbent on renominating him.

Debt I think will be resolved, but the economy is another issue. The economy is in "good" shape, but inflation has been the killer here. And Biden's age - Americans think he's too old. So, it's going to be either they support the criminal who will further tear apart America by going after his perceived enemies or the old man that isn't mentally as sharp may die within the next 5 years, but would provide stability.

Honestly, I'm not sure who can win at this point. Biden seems to be running because he's convinced no Democrat, including his VP, can win. He's probably not wrong.
A Golden Civic: The New Pragmatic Libertarian
My Words: Indeed, Indubitably & Malarkey
Retired Admin in NSGS and NS Parliament

Accountant, Author, History Buff, Political Junkie
“Has ambition so eclipsed principle?” ~ Mitt Romney
"Try not to become a person of success, but rather try to become a person of value." ~ Albert Einstein
"Trust, but verify." ~ Ronald Reagan

User avatar
Alkmaaria
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 134
Founded: Sep 09, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Alkmaaria » Thu May 11, 2023 10:00 am

Zurkerx wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
God knows at this point. We're still 18 months away, but unless this debt mess is cleared up and the economy can get back on the right track, Trump will be back. At this point, I do not think Desantis can win unless he makes a stellar showing in the debates, and that's not until August.


I'm not even sure if that will be enough: the GOP Base is hellbent on renominating him.

Debt I think will be resolved, but the economy is another issue. The economy is in "good" shape, but inflation has been the killer here. And Biden's age - Americans think he's too old. So, it's going to be either they support the criminal who will further tear apart America by going after his perceived enemies or the old man that isn't mentally as sharp may die within the next 5 years, but would provide stability.

Honestly, I'm not sure who can win at this point. Biden seems to be running because he's convinced no Democrat, including his VP, can win. He's probably not wrong.


If Trump wins (the nomination), Biden wins.

If Desantis wins, Biden loses.

If GOP wants to pull a victory Desantis must be nominated.
THis is a signature

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American Legionaries
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9857
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Thu May 11, 2023 10:01 am

Caurus wrote:
Zurkerx wrote:
Basically, we got a large target on our backs then. It should be clear though that the crowd was mostly comprised of GOP Voters, but it's still a terrifying prospect: because if this is how the rest of the country feels (we need some better statistics), then we're in trouble.


I just can't understand how someone so antithetical to the values nominally espoused by modern American conservatism could hold so much sway. I mean, on a logical level, sure, I understand how, demagoguery and all that, and I even said those values are nominal, but the fact that he enjoys a near messianic level of regard is so utterly mind boggling at the same time.


Because personal actions do not policy make.

User avatar
Caurus
Secretary
 
Posts: 39
Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Caurus » Thu May 11, 2023 10:01 am

Shrillland wrote:
Caurus wrote:
I just can't understand how someone so antithetical to the values nominally espoused by modern American conservatism could hold so much sway. I mean, on a logical level, sure, I understand how, demagoguery and all that, and I even said those values are nominal, but the fact that he enjoys a near messianic level of regard is so utterly mind boggling at the same time.


It's the culmination of 60+ years of the right creating its own reality via its own news media gaslighting the public into thinking it alone is right.

Was it 60 years? I would have said this goes back to the Millennial Dominionism movement which came to fruition in the 70's and the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine in the 80's.

User avatar
Pizza Friday Forever91
Envoy
 
Posts: 326
Founded: Apr 07, 2023
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Pizza Friday Forever91 » Thu May 11, 2023 10:01 am

if Ron DeSantis gets his ass kicked by Fucking Charlie Crist in the governor debate, what chance does he have against Donald Trump?

User avatar
Umeria
Senator
 
Posts: 3815
Founded: Mar 05, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Umeria » Thu May 11, 2023 10:01 am

Zurkerx wrote:Honestly, I'm not sure who can win at this point. Biden seems to be running because he's convinced no Democrat, including his VP, can win. He's probably not wrong.

No he's wrong. Any prominent Democrat with a last name starting with W can win. I'm talking Walz, Whitmer, Warnock, Williamson
Ambassador Anthony Lockwood, at your service.
Author of GAR #389

"Umeria - We start with U"

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El Lazaro
Senator
 
Posts: 4551
Founded: Oct 19, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby El Lazaro » Thu May 11, 2023 10:02 am

The Orson Empire wrote:
Caurus wrote:
I just can't understand how someone so antithetical to the values nominally espoused by modern American conservatism could hold so much sway. I mean, on a logical level, sure, I understand how, demagoguery and all that, and I even said those values are nominal, but the fact that he enjoys a near messianic level of regard is so utterly mind boggling at the same time.

Those are the values held by modern-day conservatives. The Republican Party has wholeheartedly embraced fascism.

Or just doesn’t care if fascists win as long as it helps their bottom line. When will the GOP stop pretending to be the party of Christian morality and confess to being murderous sycophants that want nothing but the harm of the Other for their own personal gain?

User avatar
Alkmaaria
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 134
Founded: Sep 09, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Alkmaaria » Thu May 11, 2023 10:02 am

American Legionaries wrote:
Caurus wrote:
I just can't understand how someone so antithetical to the values nominally espoused by modern American conservatism could hold so much sway. I mean, on a logical level, sure, I understand how, demagoguery and all that, and I even said those values are nominal, but the fact that he enjoys a near messianic level of regard is so utterly mind boggling at the same time.


Because personal actions do not policy make.

True, but politics is now about the individual candidate, not the party.
THis is a signature

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Shrillland
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21036
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Shrillland » Thu May 11, 2023 10:02 am

Zurkerx wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
God knows at this point. We're still 18 months away, but unless this debt mess is cleared up and the economy can get back on the right track, Trump will be back. At this point, I do not think Desantis can win unless he makes a stellar showing in the debates, and that's not until August.


I'm not even sure if that will be enough: the GOP Base is hellbent on renominating him.

Debt I think will be resolved, but the economy is another issue. The economy is in "good" shape, but inflation has been the killer here. And Biden's age - Americans think he's too old. So, it's going to be either they support the criminal who will further tear apart America by going after his perceived enemies or the old man that isn't mentally as sharp may die within the next 5 years, but would provide stability.

Honestly, I'm not sure who can win at this point. Biden seems to be running because he's convinced no Democrat, including his VP, can win. He's probably not wrong.


I've been saying it on here for years, I was more or less praying(and I'm not even religious) that Biden wouldn't go full Hindenburg because him doing so meant that the Democrats had no one else that could keep the country alive. That he has been more or less forced to do so is a troubling sign.

And to everyone else reading, I know you guys are probably tired of my doom and gloom outlook, but I'm a history fanatic, and all of this falls right in line with how many other countries saw their democracies die.
How America Came to This, by Kowani: Racialised Politics, Ideological Media Gaslighting, and What It All Means For The Future
Plebiscite Plaza 2023
Confused by the names I use for House districts? Here's a primer!
In 1963, Doctor Who taught us all we need to know about politics when a cave woman said, "Old men see no further than tomorrow's meat".

User avatar
The Jamesian Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13870
Founded: Apr 28, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Jamesian Republic » Thu May 11, 2023 10:02 am

Umeria wrote:
Zurkerx wrote:Honestly, I'm not sure who can win at this point. Biden seems to be running because he's convinced no Democrat, including his VP, can win. He's probably not wrong.

No he's wrong. Any prominent Democrat with a last name starting with W can win. I'm talking Walz, Whitmer, Warnock, Williamson


The first three would be cool (for a Democrat) but I’m not sure about Williamson.

User avatar
The Orson Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31403
Founded: Mar 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Orson Empire » Thu May 11, 2023 10:03 am

Zurkerx wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
God knows at this point. We're still 18 months away, but unless this debt mess is cleared up and the economy can get back on the right track, Trump will be back. At this point, I do not think Desantis can win unless he makes a stellar showing in the debates, and that's not until August.


I'm not even sure if that will be enough: the GOP Base is hellbent on renominating him.

Debt I think will be resolved, but the economy is another issue. The economy is in "good" shape, but inflation has been the killer here. And Biden's age - Americans think he's too old. So, it's going to be either they support the criminal who will further tear apart America by going after his perceived enemies or the old man that isn't mentally as sharp may die within the next 5 years, but would provide stability.

Honestly, I'm not sure who can win at this point. Biden seems to be running because he's convinced no Democrat, including his VP, can win. He's probably not wrong.

Trump isn't exactly a beacon of health. I'd wager he would die before Biden does, despite Biden being older.

Republicans are campaigning on losing issues. They've shot themselves in the foot with the Dobbs Supreme Court Case, and we've already seen the ramifications of that in the 2022 midterms.

User avatar
Elwher
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7310
Founded: May 24, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Elwher » Thu May 11, 2023 10:04 am

Shrillland wrote:Another state and another measure joins the Plaza, and this time it's pretty major.

Ohio: Ohio will be voting on August 8 on an amendment that would raise the threshold for approving constitutional amendments from a simple majority to a 60% majority.


Amending a Constitution is a more major step than passing laws, so I see no reason why a larger majority should not be required. If 40% of the voters are against an amendment, perhaps it is not a good idea.
CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
Ambrose Bierce

User avatar
Greater Miami Shores 3
Senator
 
Posts: 4488
Founded: Jul 24, 2021
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores 3 » Thu May 11, 2023 10:04 am

American Legionaries wrote:
Caurus wrote:
I just can't understand how someone so antithetical to the values nominally espoused by modern American conservatism could hold so much sway. I mean, on a logical level, sure, I understand how, demagoguery and all that, and I even said those values are nominal, but the fact that he enjoys a near messianic level of regard is so utterly mind boggling at the same time.


Because personal actions do not policy make.

Because President Trump is a Great American President and Patriot of the USA, just ask me and ask us?
I will never tell you I am right and you are wrong in any way on any issues we are discussing. I will explain my side of it and I will leave it there.I GMS Am A Proud Conservative Republican Nationalist with A Slight Economic Libertarian Streak Neo Con Paleo Con America First Pro MAGA Pro Trump Ron DeSantis and Ronald Reagan Supporter The original Make America Great Again President of the USA With Pride and Honor.For the 2 Greatest American Presidents of the USA An Awesome Combination.

User avatar
Alkmaaria
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 134
Founded: Sep 09, 2021
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Alkmaaria » Thu May 11, 2023 10:05 am

The Jamesian Republic wrote:
Umeria wrote:No he's wrong. Any prominent Democrat with a last name starting with W can win. I'm talking Walz, Whitmer, Warnock, Williamson


The first three would be cool (for a Democrat) but I’m not sure about Williamson.

Lol. Warnock evicted a tenant from his property for 28 dollars in overdue rent. Yet preaches about helping the disadvantaged.
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