American Politics: The Speaker's Cornered

[Senkaku]

We need to know, in the shooters own words, why she did this.

Why would we need to know that?

[El Lazaro]

Lumen Derangement Syndrome, and now random strawmen. Amusing.

Ah so it is just you having a shit fit.

When did I say they had created a fascist dictatorship?

A page ago, when you regaled us about how the 4th Reich was rising in ol Rocky Top, because something something "Hitler did it."

It doesn’t take a genius to understand that citing Hitler as an obvious example of a dictatorship resulting from a democratic government abusing its powers is meant to hint that the idea of a dictatorial act isn’t absurd and unheard of.

[The Proud Transphobe]

The procedural vote was democratic, but that's beside the point. Are we supposed to ignore the political ramifications of expelling the opposition by the Republicans to consolidate power in the legislature? Is anyone here willing to say with a straight face that removing the opposition isn't a power grab?

In all likelihood it is a power grab. Now tell me... how much of your side's attempts to remove Trump from office were a power grab, versus legitimate? And how much of the current lawsuits are more about keeping him from running than anything legitimate? Just to be clear, I don't like Trump at all either, I just don't think 90% of this is happening as the result of any good-faith effort. I think extremists on both sides are trying to drive a wedge in wherever they can, because they think escalating things as far as possible will create an opportunity for themselves to gain power.

[Tarsonis]

The procedural vote was democratic, but that's beside the point. Are we supposed to ignore the political ramifications of expelling the opposition by the Republicans to consolidate power in the legislature? Is anyone here willing to say with a straight face that removing the opposition isn't a power grab?

Of course it is. But it's a power grab in a sea of power grabs, and histrionic displays about how Tennessee has been taken over by fascists, really doesn't do much to convince me that a Bad Moons arising just yet . Maybe I'm just cynical

[Tarsonis]

Ah so it is just you having a shit fit.



A page ago, when you regaled us about how the 4th Reich was rising in ol Rocky Top, because something something "Hitler did it."

It doesn’t take a genius to understand that citing Hitler as an obvious example of a dictatorship resulting from a democratic government abusing its powers is meant to hint that the idea of a dictatorial act isn’t absurd and unheard of.

Yes it doesn't take a genius to scream "but Hitler" at every questionable act of a legislature, and it's generally indicative of the opposite.

[The Proud Transphobe]

We need to know, in the shooters own words, why she did this.

Why would we need to know that?

If we want to prevent more mass murders from happening, understanding what drove someone to actually do the unthinkable would be useful. If we don't have all the information, how can we make an informed vote to make actual change?

[Tarsonis]

Why would we need to know that?

If we want to prevent more mass murders from happening, understanding what drove someone to actually do the unthinkable would be useful. If we don't have all the information, how can we make an informed vote to make actual change?

Because we already know that: They had an axe to grind, and decided to go out in a blazen act of violent murder/suicide by cop to try and gain noteriety and be heard.

We don't need the specifics. Knowing Elliot Rodger hated women for not sleeping with him, didn't give us any insight in how to prevent mass shootings, but it did give inspiration to a generation of incel custrons to think they have a valid grievance.

Fuck her cause.

[American Legionaries]

The procedural vote was democratic, but that's beside the point. Are we supposed to ignore the political ramifications of expelling the opposition by the Republicans to consolidate power in the legislature? Is anyone here willing to say with a straight face that removing the opposition isn't a power grab?

Except that is the point, specifically in opposition to the assertion that the procedural vote was an example of dictatorship.

People are so absurdly invested in the idea that outcomes they like are "democracy" and outcomes they dislike are "dictatorships" that they abuse the actual correct uses of those words.

[Urkennalaid]

Let's be honest, we know how to prevent mass shootings. We don't need to look at manifestos to figure out why. It's just that right-wingers don't want any kind of gun regulation, no matter how many children died. Right-wingers either say it's the doors not being locked, or the problem of fatherlessness, basically anything they can do to avoid the real issue here.

[Picairn]

In all likelihood it is a power grab. Now tell me... how much of your side's attempts to remove Trump from office were a power grab, versus legitimate? And how much of the current lawsuits are more about keeping him from running than anything legitimate? Just to be clear, I don't like Trump at all either, I just don't think 90% of this is happening as the result of any good-faith effort. I think extremists on both sides are trying to drive a wedge in wherever they can, because they think escalating things as far as possible will create an opportunity for themselves to gain power.

Do you think inciting an insurrection & quid pro quo is equivalent to interrupting a legislative session? This bothsiderism is getting old.

[American Legionaries]

Let's be honest, we know how to prevent mass shootings. We don't need to look at manifestos to figure out why. It's just that right-wingers don't want any kind of gun regulation, no matter how many children died. Right-wingers either say it's the doors not being locked, or the problem of fatherlessness, basically anything they can do to avoid the real issue here.

Maybe y'all should look for a better way to reduce school shootings then?

[Shrillland]

Let's be honest, we know how to prevent mass shootings. We don't need to look at manifestos to figure out why. It's just that right-wingers don't want any kind of gun regulation, no matter how many children died. Right-wingers either say it's the doors not being locked, or the problem of fatherlessness, basically anything they can do to avoid the real issue here.

Maybe y'all should look for a better way to reduce school shootings then?

We can't. Those same right-wingers are opposed to improving things like mental health service and revitalising the welfare state.

[Picairn]

Except that is the point, specifically in opposition to the assertion that the procedural vote was an example of dictatorship.

People are so absurdly invested in the idea that outcomes they like are "democracy" and outcomes they dislike are "dictatorships" that they abuse the actual correct uses of those words.

Legislatures can perfectly pass authoritarian laws with "democratic procedural votes". Arguing over the vote is stupid.

[American Legionaries]

Maybe y'all should look for a better way to reduce school shootings then?

We can't. Those same right-wingers are opposed to improving things like mental health service and revitalising the welfare state.

Well darn...

[Tarsonis]

Let's be honest, we know how to prevent mass shootings. We don't need to look at manifestos to figure out why. It's just that right-wingers don't want any kind of gun regulation, no matter how many children died. Right-wingers either say it's the doors not being locked, or the problem of fatherlessness, basically anything they can do to avoid the real issue here.

And what, pray tell, is the "real issue" here?

[American Legionaries]

Except that is the point, specifically in opposition to the assertion that the procedural vote was an example of dictatorship.

People are so absurdly invested in the idea that outcomes they like are "democracy" and outcomes they dislike are "dictatorships" that they abuse the actual correct uses of those words.

Legislatures can perfectly pass authoritarian laws with "democratic procedural votes". Arguing over the vote is stupid.

Yes.

[El Lazaro]

The procedural vote was democratic, but that's beside the point. Are we supposed to ignore the political ramifications of expelling the opposition by the Republicans to consolidate power in the legislature? Is anyone here willing to say with a straight face that removing the opposition isn't a power grab?

In all likelihood it is a power grab. Now tell me... how much of your side's attempts to remove Trump from office were a power grab, versus legitimate? And how much of the current lawsuits are more about keeping him from running than anything legitimate? Just to be clear, I don't like Trump at all either, I just don't think 90% of this is happening as the result of any good-faith effort. I think extremists on both sides are trying to drive a wedge in wherever they can, because they think escalating things as far as possible will create an opportunity for themselves to gain power.

Trump, in all likelihood, would have been convicted in one of an unfathomable number of cases spanning decades before his presidential runs actually started to be successful (he was a Democrat, in Reform, and an independent before the GOP and still had legal troubles) if he wasn’t an extremely shady billionaire(?) celebrity. The fact that it took the guy acting like an unbalanced lunatic as president and attempting to overthrow the government for anyone to actually try to book him is worrying, although there isn’t any serious effort to bar him from office. I’m personally not sure prosecuting him would be wise*, but it’s definitely the legitimate thing to do.

*He’s trailing DeSantis by a fair amount but seems less likely to concede and fall in line with the party, which could get interesting.

[Picairn]

Of course it is. But it's a power grab in a sea of power grabs, and histrionic displays about how Tennessee has been taken over by fascists, really doesn't do much to convince me that a Bad Moons arising just yet . Maybe I'm just cynical

Inaction and nonchalance over successive authoritarian acts is how dictatorships are gradually formed.

[American Legionaries]

Of course it is. But it's a power grab in a sea of power grabs, and histrionic displays about how Tennessee has been taken over by fascists, really doesn't do much to convince me that a Bad Moons arising just yet . Maybe I'm just cynical

Inaction and nonchalance over successive authoritarian acts is how dictatorships are gradually formed.

And here I thought it was because of people who were hungry and out of a job.

[El Lazaro]

It doesn’t take a genius to understand that citing Hitler as an obvious example of a dictatorship resulting from a democratic government abusing its powers is meant to hint that the idea of a dictatorial act isn’t absurd and unheard of.

Yes it doesn't take a genius to scream "but Hitler" at every questionable act of a legislature, and it's generally indicative of the opposite.

I didn’t, but if screaming at thin air is more enjoyable for you, go ahead.

[Shrillland]

Inaction and nonchalance over successive authoritarian acts is how dictatorships are gradually formed.

And here I thought it was because of people who were hungry and out of a job.

Most of the time, but not always. Look at Apartheid South Africa, for example. The economy played a role, but it wasn't the main one compared to racial and ethnic animus combined with the National Party taking advantage of a legislative map that heavily favoured rural voters. We're seeing similar dynamics playing out in some states now.

[Tarsonis]

Of course it is. But it's a power grab in a sea of power grabs, and histrionic displays about how Tennessee has been taken over by fascists, really doesn't do much to convince me that a Bad Moons arising just yet . Maybe I'm just cynical

Inaction and nonchalance over successive authoritarian acts is how dictatorships are gradually formed.

That might actually be relevant if I lived in Tennessee.

[El Lazaro]

Inaction and nonchalance over successive authoritarian acts is how dictatorships are gradually formed.

That might actually be relevant if I lived in Tennessee.

Did AL take over your account lol

[Tarsonis]

Yes it doesn't take a genius to scream "but Hitler" at every questionable act of a legislature, and it's generally indicative of the opposite.

I didn’t, but if screaming at thin air is more enjoyable for you, go ahead.

Don't invoke Godwin's highest law if you're gonna back track and evade. Own your hysterical overreach.

[Tarsonis]

That might actually be relevant if I lived in Tennessee.

Did AL take over your account lol

No. I have zero say in what happens in Tennessee. my "nonchalant" attitude doesn't have any affect on the situation, and as much as we enjoy passive aggressively ribbing each other on this forum, it doesn't accomplish anything.

So it's a resoundingly pointless assertion to make.