American Politics: The Speaker's Cornered

[American Legionaries]

Representative democracy is when your duly-elected representatives are expelled from the legislature by fascists consolidating power, and the more duly-elected representatives are expelled from the legislature by fascists consolidating power, the more representative-democracy it is.

When legislatures vote, that's fascism guys!

[San Lumen]

So you have no issue with what happened in the Senate? Your simple response is oh well that's democracy? There is nothing acceptable about this. why not just expel every Democrat in the chamber?

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Sure I do. This incident perfectly illustrates the dangers of a super majority, and a well entrenched one at that. But not liking it doesn't change the fact that this is democracy in action, and was well within the realm of their powers as legislature. (It's also hardly the first time this has ever happened). If people don't like it, they should, oh how did you put it,...get out and vote.

How is this democracy in action and not an abuse of power?

These people won a free and fair election and did nothing warranting expulsion of the chamber. I don't see how kicking out of the chamber people voted into via a free and fair election is democracy. Both men are likely going to be voted back in via special elections later this year.

[Necroghastia]

So you have no issue with what happened in the Senate? Your simple response is oh well that's democracy? There is nothing acceptable about this. why not just expel every Democrat in the chamber?

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Sure I do. This incident perfectly illustrates the dangers of a super majority, and a well entrenched one at that. But not liking it doesn't change the fact that this is democracy in action

If there was a recall vote amongst the people, I would probably agree. As it is, it seems like you're just looking for an excuse to play Kick the Lumen, dude.

[San Lumen]

Representative democracy is when your duly-elected representatives are expelled from the legislature by fascists consolidating power, and the more duly-elected representatives are expelled from the legislature by fascists consolidating power, the more representative-democracy it is.

When legislatures vote, that's fascism guys!

Do you think before you type or do you just like posting edgy dumb comments for the sake of it?

[Tarsonis]

by elected representatives. it's pretty simple, I don't understand how hard it is to understand that Elected Representatives exercising the powers of their office is representative democracy in action.

Denying people their representatives selected from a democratic election is representative democracy in action?

Repeating nonsense questions doesn't a new question make?

Yet simply saying as such, doesn't make it so.

Sure. Being right makes them right.

But of course. And I'm sure what makes something right is highly correlative to what you think is right.

And yet he whinges

"And yet he whinges," indeed....

"And yet he whinges' indeed" indeed.

[American Legionaries]

When legislatures vote, that's fascism guys!

Do you think before you type or do you just like posting edgy dumb comments for the sake of it?

Fucking lol...

[El Lazaro]

Representative democracy is when your duly-elected representatives are expelled from the legislature by fascists consolidating power, and the more duly-elected representatives are expelled from the legislature by fascists consolidating power, the more representative-democracy it is.

When legislatures vote, that's fascism guys!

Little known fact: the Reichstag actually voted for Hitler to become an autocrat (this is def peak democracy guyz)

[Tarsonis]

.

Sure I do. This incident perfectly illustrates the dangers of a super majority, and a well entrenched one at that. But not liking it doesn't change the fact that this is democracy in action

If there was a recall vote amongst the people, I would probably agree.

there was, amongst the peoples representatives. or are you suddenly against impeachment?

As it is, it seems like you're just looking for an excuse to play Kick the Lumen, dude.

I'm not the one serving.

[American Legionaries]

When legislatures vote, that's fascism guys!

Little known fact: the Reichstag actually voted for Hitler to become an autocrat (this is def peak democracy guyz)

You're not wrong. It's worth noting though that the enabling acts were passed with significant interference. Was there significant interference here?

[Senkaku]

visiting the Supreme People’s Assembly:

When legislatures vote, that's fascism guys!

[Tarsonis]

When legislatures vote, that's fascism guys!

Little known fact: the Reichstag actually voted for Hitler to become an autocrat (this is def peak democracy guyz)

Well known fact: that's not really accurate.

[Shrillland]

Little known fact: the Reichstag actually voted for Hitler to become an autocrat (this is def peak democracy guyz)

Well known fact: that's not really accurate.

It i, it's just an over-over-over times 72-simplification of both the machtergreifung and the gleichshaltung.

[El Lazaro]

Little known fact: the Reichstag actually voted for Hitler to become an autocrat (this is def peak democracy guyz)

You're not wrong. It's worth noting though that the enabling acts were passed with significant interference. Was there significant interference here?

Does it matter? It was done through a legislative process and still tore down democracy in spite of protest or lack thereof.

[Tarsonis]

Well known fact: that's not really accurate.

It i, it's just an over-over-over times 72-simplification of both the machtergreifung and the gleichshaltung.

Yes, but there is such thing as oversimplification to the point of being wrong which is what we have here.

[United Calanworie]

I certainly don't think it's reasonable to say that mass shootings happen because this pattern of rifle is available to the general public. But it seems like a stretch to say that the casualty numbers have nothing to do with the efficacy of the weapon used.

Nothing to do, in so much as to differentiate it with any other weapon. Despite what critics like to suggest, the AR-15 really isn't all that special. At ranges of 50 feet or less, like you'll typically find in a school, it really doesn't matter what weapon is used. A pistol or a shotgun will be just as, honestly if not more, effective than an AR-15. People are generally allergic to bullets. That some guns better at firing them than othersx doesn't really matter in an environment like a school with contained kill areas, and hallways that funnel traffic. A person with intent and anything more advanced than brown bess, is capable of walking into a school and causing wanton destruction.

I identified Vegas as an example because that is the rare occurrence where body count is directly linked to weapon capabilities., i.e a man in an elevated position unloading modified long guns into a crowd at 300 yards.

I would tend to agree. A shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot, for example, is just as, if not more, lethal as an AR-platform rifle at close range. A school is decidedly close range. Major causes of death in these scenarios are likely to be hemorrhage, tamponade, or respiratory compromise, likely due to either destruction of the airway, or pneumothorax obstructing the airway. From a first response perspective, this is what the MARCH algorithm should be applied to. And yes, to the earlier discussion of damage to the body, yes, an exit wound from a 5.56 NATO or .223 Rem round is going to be larger than the entrance wound. That's because of transfer of momentum from the bullet to the body. Similarly, you're going to see internal damage due to cavitation of the round during its passage through the body. This is why "Stop The Bleed" trainings teach packing the wound -- simply putting external pressure on it isn't likely to stop anything from happening. But none of those concerns are unique to the round in question, all bullets act similarly on the body, they just act in lesser or greater amounts. A light round with high velocity is going to cavitate more and transfer more momentum, simply because it has more to transfer. But let's not make an argument that a 9mm round is somehow more survivable to take a shot from simply because it lacks that cavitation and that transfer of momentum -- that round is just as lethal if bleeding is not stopped.

[New haven america]

Multiple children died, 3 legislators got convicted of thought crimes and 2 received punishment for such, and NS still gives speaking time to hardcore gun advocates (Who'd be far less supportive of gun rights if they got into the "wrong" hands, a la the government's response to the Black Panthers) instead of showing them the door.

Oh, and the teachers we're actually armed at the school btw, didn't do a whole lot, evidently.

Stop giving them a platform ffs.

[Tarsonis]

Nothing to do, in so much as to differentiate it with any other weapon. Despite what critics like to suggest, the AR-15 really isn't all that special. At ranges of 50 feet or less, like you'll typically find in a school, it really doesn't matter what weapon is used. A pistol or a shotgun will be just as, honestly if not more, effective than an AR-15. People are generally allergic to bullets. That some guns better at firing them than othersx doesn't really matter in an environment like a school with contained kill areas, and hallways that funnel traffic. A person with intent and anything more advanced than brown bess, is capable of walking into a school and causing wanton destruction.

I identified Vegas as an example because that is the rare occurrence where body count is directly linked to weapon capabilities., i.e a man in an elevated position unloading modified long guns into a crowd at 300 yards.

I would tend to agree. A shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot, for example, is just as, if not more, lethal as an AR-platform rifle at close range. A school is decidedly close range. Major causes of death in these scenarios are likely to be hemorrhage, tamponade, or respiratory compromise, likely due to either destruction of the airway, or pneumothorax obstructing the airway. From a first response perspective, this is what the MARCH algorithm should be applied to. And yes, to the earlier discussion of damage to the body, yes, an exit wound from a 5.56 NATO or .223 Rem round is going to be larger than the entrance wound. That's because of transfer of momentum from the bullet to the body. Similarly, you're going to see internal damage due to cavitation of the round during its passage through the body. This is why "Stop The Bleed" trainings teach packing the wound -- simply putting external pressure on it isn't likely to stop anything from happening. But none of those concerns are unique to the round in question, all bullets act similarly on the body, they just act in lesser or greater amounts. A light round with high velocity is going to cavitate more and transfer more momentum, simply because it has more to transfer. But let's not make an argument that a 9mm round is somehow more survivable to take a shot from simply because it lacks that cavitation and that transfer of momentum -- that round is just as lethal if bleeding is not stopped.

That underlined isn't really true. Ballistics is pretty constant, but how round reacts with the body can vary. 5.56 rounds for example, are much more likely to ricochet off bones and alter trajectory within, while 7.62 is more likely to break through bone and exit in more or less a straight line.

This isn't even getting into things like specialized rounds like hollow points or RIP rounds.

[Tarsonis]

Multiple children died, 3 legislators got convicted of thought crimes and 2 received punishment for such, and NS still gives speaking time to hardcore gun advocates (Who'd be far less supportive of gun rights if they got into the "wrong" hands, a la the government's response to the Black Panthers) instead of showing them the door.

Oh, and the teachers we're actually armed at the school btw, didn't do a whole lot, evidently.

Stop giving them a platform ffs.

Literally everyone one of us "hard core" gun advocates (read as: people who know what they're talking about) agree that Reagan was wrong and the BPs have every right to arm and carry as anyone else does. It's been repeated as nauseum in the gun thread.

Try harder.

[United Calanworie]

I would tend to agree. A shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot, for example, is just as, if not more, lethal as an AR-platform rifle at close range. A school is decidedly close range. Major causes of death in these scenarios are likely to be hemorrhage, tamponade, or respiratory compromise, likely due to either destruction of the airway, or pneumothorax obstructing the airway. From a first response perspective, this is what the MARCH algorithm should be applied to. And yes, to the earlier discussion of damage to the body, yes, an exit wound from a 5.56 NATO or .223 Rem round is going to be larger than the entrance wound. That's because of transfer of momentum from the bullet to the body. Similarly, you're going to see internal damage due to cavitation of the round during its passage through the body. This is why "Stop The Bleed" trainings teach packing the wound -- simply putting external pressure on it isn't likely to stop anything from happening. But none of those concerns are unique to the round in question, all bullets act similarly on the body, they just act in lesser or greater amounts. A light round with high velocity is going to cavitate more and transfer more momentum, simply because it has more to transfer. But let's not make an argument that a 9mm round is somehow more survivable to take a shot from simply because it lacks that cavitation and that transfer of momentum -- that round is just as lethal if bleeding is not stopped.

That underlined isn't really true. Ballistics is pretty constant, but how round reacts with the body can vary. 5.56 rounds for example, are much more likely to ricochet off bones and alter trajectory within, while 7.62 is more likely to break through bone and exit in more or less a straight line.

This isn't even getting into things like specialized rounds like hollow points or RIP rounds.

My mistake then. That's what I've been taught for the most part, and I was actually under the impression that most/all rounds tended to ricochet if they hit bone. And yes, hollow points are a special case considering that they're designed to not exit the body from what I understand.

[San Lumen]

If there was a recall vote amongst the people, I would probably agree.

there was, amongst the peoples representatives. or are you suddenly against impeachment?

As it is, it seems like you're just looking for an excuse to play Kick the Lumen, dude.

I'm not the one serving.

And the peoples representatives abused their power. How are you not seeing this? How in good conscience can you defend this shameful dictatorial act?

[Senkaku]

But let's not make an argument that a 9mm round is somehow more survivable to take a shot from simply because it lacks that cavitation and that transfer of momentum -- that round is just as lethal if bleeding is not stopped.

I mean, smaller exit wound, less cavitation and internal damage— you’ve literally described a more survivable shot. Yes, a 9mm can still kill someone just fine and cause devastating injuries, but in a straight-up comparison, if you get shot in the same place from the same range, you’re describing a more survivable wound. (Tars makes a good point about hollow point, though, that’s a whole different nightmare.)

[United Calanworie]

But let's not make an argument that a 9mm round is somehow more survivable to take a shot from simply because it lacks that cavitation and that transfer of momentum -- that round is just as lethal if bleeding is not stopped.

I mean, smaller exit wound, less cavitation and internal damage— you’ve literally described a more survivable shot. Yes, a 9mm can still kill someone just fine and cause devastating injuries, but in a straight-up comparison, if you get shot in the same place from the same range, you’re describing a more survivable wound. (Tars makes a good point about hollow point, though, that’s a whole different nightmare.)

that round is just as lethal if bleeding is not stopped

[Senkaku]

I mean, smaller exit wound, less cavitation and internal damage— you’ve literally described a more survivable shot. Yes, a 9mm can still kill someone just fine and cause devastating injuries, but in a straight-up comparison, if you get shot in the same place from the same range, you’re describing a more survivable wound. (Tars makes a good point about hollow point, though, that’s a whole different nightmare.)

that round is just as lethal if bleeding is not stopped

What is the point you’re making, exactly? A rose thorn or a pencil can be just as lethal if the bleeding isn’t stopped, but I’m very comfortable arguing that pencil-inflicted wounds are generally more survivable than ones from 9mm bullets. Is a landmine is just as lethal as a hydraulic press, since they can both take your foot off?

[United Calanworie]

that round is just as lethal if bleeding is not stopped

What is the point you’re making, exactly? A rose thorn or a pencil can be just as lethal if the bleeding isn’t stopped, but I’m very comfortable arguing that pencil-inflicted wounds are generally more survivable than ones from 9mm bullets.

That's because you're going to have coagulation and achieve hemostasis on a small, pencil-inflicted wound. You aren't going to achieve it on a gunshot without external pressure in all likelihood. The phrase that I was taught for GSW victims was "bright lights and cold steel are what's going to save their life." You don't need bright lights and cold steel for a pencil wound because it's going to clot on its own. Gunshots? Not so much. Pack the wound, apply external pressure, start a large bore IV for fluid replacement/TXA, but none of those things are going to long-term save them, they're going to need definitive care and likely surgery in order to repair the damage.

[Tarsonis]

there was, amongst the peoples representatives. or are you suddenly against impeachment?




I'm not the one serving.

And the peoples representatives abused their power. How are you not seeing this? How in good conscience can you defend this shameful dictatorial act?

You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means.