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American Politics: Indictments Galore

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Will The US Raise The Debt Ceiling Using the House Proposal as The Basis?

Yes
68
41%
No
44
27%
IDK/Other
53
32%
 
Total votes : 165

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American Legionaries
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9857
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:57 pm

San Lumen wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Evers

People here often say they want average folk running for office. I present to you the Governor of Wisconsin.

As a young adult he was a caregiver in a nursing home. He got a degree from the University of Wisconsin–Madison. He then became a teacher was a principal in two different schools and then a superintendent in two different districts.

He ran for Superintendent of Public Instruction losing twice in 1993 and and 2001. Evers was appointed deputy by the victor of the election after his second loss. He third time running was the charm in 2009 and served in the position until his election as Governor in 2018.

If someone can give me an example of someone going directly from an entry level job directly to high office in any country I’m listening. The fact is people want someone with at least some experience in high office. It’s not due to some conspiracy or establishment plot.


Donald Trump became President of the United States when his previous job was being a douchebag who spent money other people earned.

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Haganham
Minister
 
Posts: 2129
Founded: Aug 17, 2021
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Haganham » Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:15 pm

San Lumen wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Evers

People here often say they want average folk running for office. I present to you the Governor of Wisconsin.

As a young adult he was a caregiver in a nursing home. He got a degree from the University of Wisconsin–Madison. He then became a teacher was a principal in two different schools and then a superintendent in two different districts.

He ran for Superintendent of Public Instruction losing twice in 1993 and and 2001. Evers was appointed deputy by the victor of the election after his second loss. He third time running was the charm in 2009 and served in the position until his election as Governor in 2018.

If someone can give me an example of someone going directly from an entry level job directly to high office in any country I’m listening. The fact is people want someone with at least some experience in high office. It’s not due to some conspiracy or establishment plot.

There's also the simple fact that running for office is a full time job that you are committing to for about a year, maybe much more. It's not something that you can do if you need to work to support yourself.
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Celritannia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17111
Founded: Nov 10, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:26 pm

San Lumen wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Evers

People here often say they want average folk running for office. I present to you the Governor of Wisconsin.

As a young adult he was a caregiver in a nursing home. He got a degree from the University of Wisconsin–Madison. He then became a teacher was a principal in two different schools and then a superintendent in two different districts.

He ran for Superintendent of Public Instruction losing twice in 1993 and and 2001. Evers was appointed deputy by the victor of the election after his second loss. He third time running was the charm in 2009 and served in the position until his election as Governor in 2018.

If someone can give me an example of someone going directly from an entry level job directly to high office in any country I’m listening. The fact is people want someone with at least some experience in high office. It’s not due to some conspiracy or establishment plot.


The establishment exists, I have provided multiple articles and evidence for you, but you maintain ignorance about it.

Also, not one person has said they have to go from an entry-level job straight to being elected to high office. People say it is better to have politicians working class backgrounds over those who are always in the political establishment.
Last edited by Celritannia on Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81222
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:34 pm

Celritannia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Evers

People here often say they want average folk running for office. I present to you the Governor of Wisconsin.

As a young adult he was a caregiver in a nursing home. He got a degree from the University of Wisconsin–Madison. He then became a teacher was a principal in two different schools and then a superintendent in two different districts.

He ran for Superintendent of Public Instruction losing twice in 1993 and and 2001. Evers was appointed deputy by the victor of the election after his second loss. He third time running was the charm in 2009 and served in the position until his election as Governor in 2018.

If someone can give me an example of someone going directly from an entry level job directly to high office in any country I’m listening. The fact is people want someone with at least some experience in high office. It’s not due to some conspiracy or establishment plot.


The establishment exists, I have provided multiple articles and evidence for you, but you maintain ignorance about it.

Also, not one person has said they have to go from an entry-level job straight to being elected to high office. People say it is better to have politicians working class backgrounds over those who are always in the political establishment.

some have. They said if they had a choice between a mayor, state senator or fast worker in a primary for governor they would chose the fast food worker.

Is the example I gave not an example of this?

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81222
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:35 pm

Haganham wrote:
San Lumen wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Evers

People here often say they want average folk running for office. I present to you the Governor of Wisconsin.

As a young adult he was a caregiver in a nursing home. He got a degree from the University of Wisconsin–Madison. He then became a teacher was a principal in two different schools and then a superintendent in two different districts.

He ran for Superintendent of Public Instruction losing twice in 1993 and and 2001. Evers was appointed deputy by the victor of the election after his second loss. He third time running was the charm in 2009 and served in the position until his election as Governor in 2018.

If someone can give me an example of someone going directly from an entry level job directly to high office in any country I’m listening. The fact is people want someone with at least some experience in high office. It’s not due to some conspiracy or establishment plot.

There's also the simple fact that running for office is a full time job that you are committing to for about a year, maybe much more. It's not something that you can do if you need to work to support yourself.


Plenty of people have run for office while working. Where do people get this notion that you can't run for office if you have a job? Do you think everyone on the city council or in the state legislature for example is only working part time or unemployed when they run?
Last edited by San Lumen on Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pangurstan
Diplomat
 
Posts: 552
Founded: Aug 20, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pangurstan » Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:37 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
The establishment exists, I have provided multiple articles and evidence for you, but you maintain ignorance about it.

Also, not one person has said they have to go from an entry-level job straight to being elected to high office. People say it is better to have politicians working class backgrounds over those who are always in the political establishment.

some have. They said if they had a choice between a mayor, state senator or fast worker in a primary for governor they would chose the fast food worker.

Is the example I gave not an example of this?

People wanting working class politicians doesn't mean that politicians are working class
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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81222
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:38 pm

:blush:
Pangurstan wrote:
San Lumen wrote:some have. They said if they had a choice between a mayor, state senator or fast worker in a primary for governor they would chose the fast food worker.

Is the example I gave not an example of this?

People wanting working class politicians doesn't mean that politicians are working class


Is someone who worked in a nursing home and was a teacher not working class to you?

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Celritannia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17111
Founded: Nov 10, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:03 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
The establishment exists, I have provided multiple articles and evidence for you, but you maintain ignorance about it.

Also, not one person has said they have to go from an entry-level job straight to being elected to high office. People say it is better to have politicians working class backgrounds over those who are always in the political establishment.

some have. They said if they had a choice between a mayor, state senator or fast worker in a primary for governor they would chose the fast food worker.

Is the example I gave not an example of this?


YEs, but that's not really the same thing. It is simply a hypothetical question, and I would still vote for the fast food worker in the hypothetical scenario.

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:21 pm

Celritannia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:some have. They said if they had a choice between a mayor, state senator or fast worker in a primary for governor they would chose the fast food worker.

Is the example I gave not an example of this?


YEs, but that's not really the same thing. It is simply a hypothetical question, and I would still vote for the fast food worker in the hypothetical scenario.


So if you had a choice between him and the fast worker in the primary knowing everything I told you about him you still chose the fast food worker? Why?

What makes you think the fast food worker would have had any chance at beating the incumbent governor in 2018? Evers only won by about 30,000 votes.

He was very popular as Superintendent of Public Instruction (if your not aware its similar to Secretary of Education) and was the strongest candidate Democrats could have gotten.

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Narland
Minister
 
Posts: 2067
Founded: Apr 19, 2013
Anarchy

Postby Narland » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:25 pm

Archinstinct wrote:Kvatchdom. I got a few sources for you. There should be more in the thread I want to make but i just want to get my point across:
https://www.codepink.org/piu20iraq
https://twitter.com/DC_YCL/status/1637514842071285765
https://twitter.com/dsa_intl_comm/statu ... 6838174722

About 200 "organizations" rallied around this "coalition":
https://twitter.com/answercoalition

They were only 100 in size though. The Rageagainstwar rally held by the libertarian party and the neo-fascists was bigger with a few thousand. They shared some the same speakers from it like roger waters and Jill Stein though.

Too bad Scott Ritter didn't show up like the kremlin wanted, nobody wanted to work with a convicted pedophile. Even evil has standards.

I don't see libertarian party and neo-fascist next to each other in the same sentence very often. I think this is my first time. It is strange to see a political party dedicated to Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Democratic Party Platform reviled as neo-fascist.

San Lumen wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
YEs, but that's not really the same thing. It is simply a hypothetical question, and I would still vote for the fast food worker in the hypothetical scenario.


So if you had a choice between him and the fast worker in the primary knowing everything I told you about him you still chose the fast food worker? Why?

What makes you think the fast food worker would have had any chance at beating the incumbent governor in 2018? Evers only won by about 30,000 votes.

He was very popular as Superintendent of Public Instruction (if your not aware its similar to Secretary of Education) and was the strongest candidate Democrats could have gotten.

Being an typical fast food worker is hard work. I applaud anyone who can put up with that amount of corporatist rat racing for any length of time. But I have to question the judgment of someone willing to serve that stuff to consumers in good conscience.
Last edited by Narland on Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Dimetrodon Empire
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1591
Founded: Sep 21, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dimetrodon Empire » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:34 pm

Archinstinct wrote:Kvatchdom. I got a few sources for you. There should be more in the thread I want to make but i just want to get my point across:
https://www.codepink.org/piu20iraq
https://twitter.com/DC_YCL/status/1637514842071285765
https://twitter.com/dsa_intl_comm/statu ... 6838174722

About 200 "organizations" rallied around this "coalition":
https://twitter.com/answercoalition

They were only 100 in size though. The Rageagainstwar rally held by the libertarian party and the neo-fascists was bigger with a few thousand. They shared some the same speakers from it like roger waters and Jill Stein though.

Too bad Scott Ritter didn't show up like the kremlin wanted, nobody wanted to work with a convicted pedophile. Even evil has standards.


ANSWER also expressed support for North Korea on more than one occasion, so this is not surprising.
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Northern Seleucia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5200
Founded: Aug 29, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Seleucia » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:35 pm

Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
Archinstinct wrote:Kvatchdom. I got a few sources for you. There should be more in the thread I want to make but i just want to get my point across:
https://www.codepink.org/piu20iraq
https://twitter.com/DC_YCL/status/1637514842071285765
https://twitter.com/dsa_intl_comm/statu ... 6838174722

About 200 "organizations" rallied around this "coalition":
https://twitter.com/answercoalition

They were only 100 in size though. The Rageagainstwar rally held by the libertarian party and the neo-fascists was bigger with a few thousand. They shared some the same speakers from it like roger waters and Jill Stein though.

Too bad Scott Ritter didn't show up like the kremlin wanted, nobody wanted to work with a convicted pedophile. Even evil has standards.


ANSWER also expressed support for North Korea on more than one occasion, so this is not surprising.

For real?
Jeez.
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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81222
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:41 pm

Narland wrote:
Archinstinct wrote:Kvatchdom. I got a few sources for you. There should be more in the thread I want to make but i just want to get my point across:
https://www.codepink.org/piu20iraq
https://twitter.com/DC_YCL/status/1637514842071285765
https://twitter.com/dsa_intl_comm/statu ... 6838174722

About 200 "organizations" rallied around this "coalition":
https://twitter.com/answercoalition

They were only 100 in size though. The Rageagainstwar rally held by the libertarian party and the neo-fascists was bigger with a few thousand. They shared some the same speakers from it like roger waters and Jill Stein though.

Too bad Scott Ritter didn't show up like the kremlin wanted, nobody wanted to work with a convicted pedophile. Even evil has standards.

I don't see libertarian party and neo-fascist next to each other in the same sentence very often. I think this is my first time.

San Lumen wrote:
So if you had a choice between him and the fast worker in the primary knowing everything I told you about him you still chose the fast food worker? Why?

What makes you think the fast food worker would have had any chance at beating the incumbent governor in 2018? Evers only won by about 30,000 votes.

He was very popular as Superintendent of Public Instruction (if your not aware its similar to Secretary of Education) and was the strongest candidate Democrats could have gotten.

Being an typical fast food worker is hard work. I applaud anyone who can put up with that amount of corporatist rat racing for any length of time. But I have to question the judgment of someone willing to serve that stuff to consumers in good conscience.


Ok and are you saying you’d vote for them over Evers in the primary? What makes you think this person would have any chance of defeating a two term incumbent governor?

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Dimetrodon Empire
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1591
Founded: Sep 21, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dimetrodon Empire » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:41 pm

Northern Seleucia wrote:
Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
ANSWER also expressed support for North Korea on more than one occasion, so this is not surprising.

For real?
Jeez.

For real.

Here's one of their retarded takes: https://www.answercoalition.org/u_s_mil ... ny_country
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Northern Seleucia
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Posts: 5200
Founded: Aug 29, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Seleucia » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:44 pm

Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
Northern Seleucia wrote:For real?
Jeez.

For real.

Here's one of their retarded takes: https://www.answercoalition.org/u_s_mil ... ny_country

What the hell......

As the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK, or North Korea) celebrated the 111th anniversary of International Women’s Day on March 08, the annual “war games” held jointly by the U.S. and South Korean armed forces--the latter of which are under the command of the U.S. except “in times of peace”--began.
Last edited by Northern Seleucia on Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dimetrodon Empire
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Founded: Sep 21, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dimetrodon Empire » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:47 pm

Northern Seleucia wrote:
Dimetrodon Empire wrote:For real.

Here's one of their retarded takes: https://www.answercoalition.org/u_s_mil ... ny_country

What the hell......

As the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK, or North Korea) celebrated the 111th anniversary of International Women’s Day on March 08, the annual “war games” held jointly by the U.S. and South Korean armed forces--the latter of which are under the command of the U.S. except “in times of peace”--began.

Or how about this:

The U.S. War against Korea only ended in an armistice on July 27, 1953, and the DPRK, progressive forces in the south and abroad, have been calling for a formal end to the Korean War that, on June 25, will be 71 years running. The absence of a peace treaty legitimizes the U.S.’s ongoing occupation of South Korea and its ability to threaten to and resume the active military war at any moment.


If people think that ANSWER has anything substantial to offer to the foreign policy debate, then I don't know what to say.

But fascism is ok I guess, as long as the regime is anti-American/Anti-west instead of pro-American/west.
Last edited by Dimetrodon Empire on Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Narland
Minister
 
Posts: 2067
Founded: Apr 19, 2013
Anarchy

Postby Narland » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:50 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Narland wrote:I don't see libertarian party and neo-fascist next to each other in the same sentence very often. I think this is my first time.


Being an typical fast food worker is hard work. I applaud anyone who can put up with that amount of corporatist rat racing for any length of time. But I have to question the judgment of someone willing to serve that stuff to consumers in good conscience.


Ok and are you saying you’d vote for them over Evers in the primary? What makes you think this person would have any chance of defeating a two term incumbent governor?

I question the judgment of some occupational choices. I wouldn't vote for a candidate just because he was a fast food server. I would want to know his platform, his goals and the strength of his moral backbone.

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81222
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:02 pm

Narland wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Ok and are you saying you’d vote for them over Evers in the primary? What makes you think this person would have any chance of defeating a two term incumbent governor?

I question the judgment of some occupational choices. I wouldn't vote for a candidate just because he was a fast food server. I would want to know his platform, his goals and the strength of his moral backbone.


Only he and not she?

At least you say you’d want to know their positions. Some here have said given the choice they chose the fast food worker.

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Northern Seleucia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5200
Founded: Aug 29, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Seleucia » Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:05 pm

Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
Northern Seleucia wrote:What the hell......

As the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK, or North Korea) celebrated the 111th anniversary of International Women’s Day on March 08, the annual “war games” held jointly by the U.S. and South Korean armed forces--the latter of which are under the command of the U.S. except “in times of peace”--began.

Or how about this:

The U.S. War against Korea only ended in an armistice on July 27, 1953, and the DPRK, progressive forces in the south and abroad, have been calling for a formal end to the Korean War that, on June 25, will be 71 years running. The absence of a peace treaty legitimizes the U.S.’s ongoing occupation of South Korea and its ability to threaten to and resume the active military war at any moment.


If people think that ANSWER has anything substantial to offer to the foreign policy debate, then I don't know what to say.

But fascism is ok I guess, as long as the regime is anti-American/Anti-west instead of pro-American/west.

As I heard once, it's only imperialism if they country in question uses the imperial system.
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Northern Seleucia
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Founded: Aug 29, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Seleucia » Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:07 pm

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"That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom – and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."
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El Lazaro
Senator
 
Posts: 4551
Founded: Oct 19, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby El Lazaro » Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:14 pm

Northern Seleucia wrote:Wait, we're invading Haiti?

lol

Last I checked, Haiti was begging Canada and the US to prevent the fall of Port-au-Prince. The capital is practically besieged, and the majority of the city has been taken over by warring coalitions of dozens of rival gangs who regularly slaughter civilians and attack government forces. This is what normal people call pretty bad and not very good.

Though clearly, as the site points out, the gangs would make up and hold hands if there was even less of a government in Haiti.
Last edited by El Lazaro on Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Northern Seleucia
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Posts: 5200
Founded: Aug 29, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Seleucia » Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:16 pm

El Lazaro wrote:
Northern Seleucia wrote:Wait, we're invading Haiti?

lol

Last I checked, Haiti was begging Canada and the US to prevent the fall of Port-au-Prince. The capital is practically besieged, and the majority of the city has been taken over by warring coalitions of dozens of rival gangs who regularly slaughter civilians and attack government forces. This is what normal people call pretty bad and not very good.

I know, I've seen it on the news before. I just found their "Stop U.S Invasion" rather funny. Truly terrible stuff down there.
The Federal Republic of Northern Seleucia
"That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom – and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."
Слава Україні! - Glory to Ukraine!
Overview | Northern Seleucian Army | NDSS System | NS Policies | About Me| My Inspiration in Two Videos
National News: Enfield Couple Horrifically Shot to Death; Police Suspect Possible Homicide | Something Went Wrong in Jet Crash, Expert Says | If Railroad Strike Isn’t Settled Quickly, It May Last Awhile | New Study of Obesity Looks for "Significantly Larger" Test Group.

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El Lazaro
Senator
 
Posts: 4551
Founded: Oct 19, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby El Lazaro » Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:01 pm

Northern Seleucia wrote:
El Lazaro wrote:Last I checked, Haiti was begging Canada and the US to prevent the fall of Port-au-Prince. The capital is practically besieged, and the majority of the city has been taken over by warring coalitions of dozens of rival gangs who regularly slaughter civilians and attack government forces. This is what normal people call pretty bad and not very good.

I know, I've seen it on the news before. I just found their "Stop U.S Invasion" rather funny. Truly terrible stuff down there.

The irony is that, without any international intervention, it will never just resolve itself (not for a very long time, at least) because the causes of the crisis are increasingly caused by the crisis itself. It’ll be impossible to hold elections or a referendum until it’s safe enough for most voters to go to polling stations, humanitarian issues are spiraling out of control, and there will never be a trustworthy administration when the government is clawing for survival.

A long-term occupation is probably not for the better, but someone needs to bring about a period of relative calm, and the government of Haiti is very clearly not capable of doing so. That said, if negotiation of a ceasefire is possible, it would be preferable to an armed intervention. I’m just not convinced by what is essentially laissez-faire foreign policy.

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Elwher
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7310
Founded: May 24, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Elwher » Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:24 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:Haven't heard about that before, but sounds good. No one can scab and pretend they don't know why there's a strike going on or claim they can't strike.

Also the free-rider problem where they get all the union negotiated benefits without having to contribute.


That is a legitimate complaint but the solution should be for the union contract to only cover those workers who are union members. Non-members can negotiate with management on their own, which usually means taking whatever management offers.
CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:37 pm

Elwher wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:Also the free-rider problem where they get all the union negotiated benefits without having to contribute.


That is a legitimate complaint but the solution should be for the union contract to only cover those workers who are union members. Non-members can negotiate with management on their own, which usually means taking whatever management offers.

And then the employer low key only hires people who don't want to join the union until the union has been eliminated.
Last edited by Cannot think of a name on Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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