American Politics: Speaker's Corner

[Pizza Friday Forever91]

Yes. I want king George Bush and Queen Hillary Clinton

Man I could at least get wanting to introduce a monarchy in the US but what the fuck are these picks for royalty lol

I hate monarchists, I hate those picks for monarchs even more.

[Tarsonis]

NO

*La Marseillaise plays*

Trump as king would be pretty funny though

Y'all are gonna make me speak favorably of the French Revolution, and you know how I hate that.

[The Jamesian Republic]

Trump as king would be pretty funny though

Y'all are gonna make me speak favorably of the French Revolution, and you know how I hate that.

Yes Tarsonis good. Let the anger flow through you.

[Galloism]

Oh this could be even more fun.

So, when you go to school, and you take out student loans, you need to pay taxes on your student loans while in school, and then you get to count the whole student loan payment as a deduction from your income later?

We could structure it that way, but just want to ensure that this is your intent.

I was actually thinking mortgagees and how his idea would probably kill them and most peoples ability to buy a house.

This is a consideration, but my next trick was to point out how surprise medical bills (resulting in surprise medical debt) would also result in surprise taxes.

[Valles Marineris Mining co]

This is my perfect economic plan.

Steepen the income tax curve, then shift it to the right towards higher income individuals. Then, tax stocks as capital gains, and tax stocks in general. Then, reform the IRS. Have a linear system of IRS enforcement in which the IRS has higher priority over enforcing taxes on those higher in the income tax bracket. Those on the lower end of the tax bracket will have little to no IRS enforcement, so the lowest income individuals may occasionally get away with tax fraud ever so often.
Then, increase the minimum age for social security/Medicare to 70, due to the fact that both of those programs were made when 65 was considered ancient. Make it that all individuals in congress must also publicly release their tax returns. Eliminate sales tax on food and essentials. Reduce military spending by 15-20 percent, reduce the amount of unneeded/unessasary civil employees.

[Saiwana]

What is the incentive to pay taxes asides from avoiding imprisonment/fines if the state doesn't just go "woe is me, we don't have enough revenues to pay for x programs" if they instead decide: "okay, we'll just run a deficit and pay it off later or maybe not.. just kick the can down the road for the next people to worry about?

Does the state even need us that badly if either way, they just borrow any amounts they want?

On the basis that people conclude that they'll use their money better than their government can or will, won't people who can, inevitably utilize a tax haven to save money and get richer than they'd otherwise be able to?

[Umeria]

What is the incentive to pay taxes asides from avoiding imprisonment/fines if the state doesn't just go "woe is me, we don't have enough revenues to pay for x programs" if they instead decide: "okay, we'll just run a deficit and pay it off later or maybe not.. just kick the can down the road for the next people to worry about?

Does the state even need us that badly if either way, they just borrow any amounts they want?

On the basis that people conclude that they'll use their money better than their government can or will, won't people who can, inevitably utilize a tax haven to save money and get richer than they'd otherwise be able to?

Debt relies on trust. The US govt can borrow tons of money because the US economy can be trusted. So yes, it "needs us". Pretty simple concept.

Lol at the implication that the rich wouldn't try to avoid paying taxes regardless of how useful they thought it was.

[The Black Forrest]

And I would understand it better with multiple political parties under a proportional representative system which truly represents the wishes of the people and extends democracy.

America should be more elitist actually

It already is….

[Haganham]

The total revenue generated from all sources, such as wages, salaries, interest, dividends, rental income, investment returns and any other income.

So, let’s break that down.

I buy a stock for $10 today, and sell it in six months for $20.

What is my gross income? Is it $20 (total revenue)? $10 (the net gain)? When is it recognized? When i sold it? Gradually as it rose?

$10 dollars, and when you benifted from it. That means sold it or otherwise made use of it, such as as collateral for a loan.

[Diopolis]

I mean in this system I'm proposing you would know that person is a social liberal

We could also do that by getting rid of the two party system and having say, five or ten parties instead.

Nowhere in the Anglosphere has an Israel or even France style genuine multiparty system. Even India is basically a two party system.

[North Korea Choson]

We could also do that by getting rid of the two party system and having say, five or ten parties instead.

Nowhere in the Anglosphere has an Israel or even France style genuine multiparty system. Even India is basically a two party system.

But in India the Regional Parties are very strong.
On a national level BJP and Congress have broader appeal.

[Diopolis]

What is the incentive to pay taxes asides from avoiding imprisonment/fines if the state doesn't just go "woe is me, we don't have enough revenues to pay for x programs" if they instead decide: "okay, we'll just run a deficit and pay it off later or maybe not.. just kick the can down the road for the next people to worry about?

Does the state even need us that badly if either way, they just borrow any amounts they want?

On the basis that people conclude that they'll use their money better than their government can or will, won't people who can, inevitably utilize a tax haven to save money and get richer than they'd otherwise be able to?

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking.
First, yes, on an individual level the motivation to pay your taxes is not going to prison.
On the level of the state, are you asking why governments don't just borrow the money and then default? I mean you can look at Argentina to see how that works out in the long run.

[Bienenhalde]

We could also do that by getting rid of the two party system and having say, five or ten parties instead.

Nowhere in the Anglosphere has an Israel or even France style genuine multiparty system. Even India is basically a two party system.

The reason we are stuck with two-party systems in the Anglosphere is our stupid first past the post electoral system. With a different electoral system like ranked choice or proportional representation, smaller parties would have a better chance.

[Galloism]

So, let’s break that down.

I buy a stock for $10 today, and sell it in six months for $20.

What is my gross income? Is it $20 (total revenue)? $10 (the net gain)? When is it recognized? When i sold it? Gradually as it rose?

$10 dollars, and when you benifted from it. That means sold it or otherwise made use of it, such as as collateral for a loan.

Oh now this is an interesting rule. There's two pieces.

Also, it's not covered by your previous rule, which now means your tax code is twice as long as before.

When you make use of it as collateral for a loan, how is the "benefit" calculated to get a number for what gross income is recognized?

Also, it appears we're recognizing only the gain as gross income (which means it's more along the lines of "Gross Profit" as used commonly). Does this apply to other things as well? For instance, if I am in business, and I sell you a door handle for $50 that I bought for $20, do I pay tax on the $50 (gross income) or gross profit ($30)?

[Elwher]

When you borrow the money, it is income. When you repay it, the principal portion is a deduction from your income.

How is a bank loan income? You aren't earning any money.

You can repay it with assets you haven't sold. So the only time you saw any cash was when you took out the loan. What's being taxed?

It is income because it is money you have now that you didn't have before. Also, there is the present value of money argument, money now is worth more than money later.

[Elwher]

When you borrow the money, it is income. When you repay it, the principal portion is a deduction from your income.

Oh this could be even more fun.

So, when you go to school, and you take out student loans, you need to pay taxes on your student loans while in school, and then you get to count the whole student loan payment as a deduction from your income later?

We could structure it that way, but just want to ensure that this is your intent.

Precisely my intent, yes.

[Elwher]

$10 dollars, and when you benifted from it. That means sold it or otherwise made use of it, such as as collateral for a loan.

Oh now this is an interesting rule. There's two pieces.

Also, it's not covered by your previous rule, which now means your tax code is twice as long as before.

When you make use of it as collateral for a loan, how is the "benefit" calculated to get a number for what gross income is recognized?

Also, it appears we're recognizing only the gain as gross income (which means it's more along the lines of "Gross Profit" as used commonly). Does this apply to other things as well? For instance, if I am in business, and I sell you a door handle for $50 that I bought for $20, do I pay tax on the $50 (gross income) or gross profit ($30)?

Income can be defined as any money you get that you didn't have before. Therefore, when you sell a stock, the profit is money you didn't have before; when you use it as collateral for a loan the proceeds of the loan are the money you didn't have before, so that is the income.

[Pizza Friday Forever91]

I think we should give NASA 10 times it's current budget and cut off all funding to SpaceX.

[Galloism]

Oh now this is an interesting rule. There's two pieces.

Also, it's not covered by your previous rule, which now means your tax code is twice as long as before.

When you make use of it as collateral for a loan, how is the "benefit" calculated to get a number for what gross income is recognized?

Also, it appears we're recognizing only the gain as gross income (which means it's more along the lines of "Gross Profit" as used commonly). Does this apply to other things as well? For instance, if I am in business, and I sell you a door handle for $50 that I bought for $20, do I pay tax on the $50 (gross income) or gross profit ($30)?

Income can be defined as any money you get that you didn't have before. Therefore, when you sell a stock, the profit is money you didn't have before; when you use it as collateral for a loan the proceeds of the loan are the money you didn't have before, so that is the income.

Ok, so let's drill into that a bit and define "money you didn't have before".

So if I say, have emergency back surgery and it costs $5,000 in copays, which creates an instant debt of $5,000 to receive a service, but the actual cash money never touched my hands, is that income because it's money I didn't have before or no?

[Umeria]

How is a bank loan income? You aren't earning any money.

You can repay it with assets you haven't sold. So the only time you saw any cash was when you took out the loan. What's being taxed?

It is income because it is money you have now that you didn't have before. Also, there is the present value of money argument, money now is worth more than money later.

Then spending money is negative income. Meaning all you have to do to avoid paying taxes is not have any cash on hand at the end of the year.

[Diopolis]

Nowhere in the Anglosphere has an Israel or even France style genuine multiparty system. Even India is basically a two party system.

The reason we are stuck with two-party systems in the Anglosphere is our stupid first past the post electoral system. With a different electoral system like ranked choice or proportional representation, smaller parties would have a better chance.

On the contrary, two party systems are a cultural tendency of the Anglosphere. For example, Ireland has a two-ish party system despite proportional representation.

[Galloism]

It is income because it is money you have now that you didn't have before. Also, there is the present value of money argument, money now is worth more than money later.

Then spending money is negative income. Meaning all you have to do to avoid paying taxes is not have any cash on hand at the end of the year.

You're not supposed to give away the ending partway through the book.

[Elwher]

Income can be defined as any money you get that you didn't have before. Therefore, when you sell a stock, the profit is money you didn't have before; when you use it as collateral for a loan the proceeds of the loan are the money you didn't have before, so that is the income.

Ok, so let's drill into that a bit and define "money you didn't have before".

So if I say, have emergency back surgery and it costs $5,000 in copays, which creates an instant debt of $5,000 to receive a service, but the actual cash money never touched my hands, is that income because it's money I didn't have before or no?

No, because you never received the money. By buying the insurance you prepaid for the service rendered.

[Elwher]

It is income because it is money you have now that you didn't have before. Also, there is the present value of money argument, money now is worth more than money later.

Then spending money is negative income. Meaning all you have to do to avoid paying taxes is not have any cash on hand at the end of the year.

If it were simply a year-over-year arrangement, that would be true. However, in order to spend money you must get it and that is the basis of the taxation. Once you have gotten the money, what you do with it does not affect the tax situation.

[Galloism]

Ok, so let's drill into that a bit and define "money you didn't have before".

So if I say, have emergency back surgery and it costs $5,000 in copays, which creates an instant debt of $5,000 to receive a service, but the actual cash money never touched my hands, is that income because it's money I didn't have before or no?

No, because you never received the money. By buying the insurance you prepaid for the service rendered.

Insurance does not pay for copays. This is money I owe extra because the insurance for that amount is not prepaid. I received that service, which was not prepaid, and incurred a debt to get it.

Is that income?