American Politics: The Speaker's Cornered

[The Proud Transphobe]

I can't believe we're talking about how the Nazis were actually socialist. This is insane, there is no factual basis on this. It's such a dumb argument to even have. The first people the Nazis went after were communists and other leftists in Germany. Cultural Marxism is a phrase used by the modern right, but it was previously called Cultural Bolshevism, which tied Judaism to communism. The fact we're even having this discussion is ridiculous. Just straight up trying to remake history.

Socialism encompasses a lot more than just Marxist Communism. Just because Socialist Faction A goes to war against Socialist Faction B does not absolve either of their socialism.

[North Jus Intius]

Hot take: Attacks on trans rights are just attacks on women's rights in general.

A lot of anti-trans stuff focuses on misogyny, it's true, but there's a whole other realm to it as well (remember trans men + non-binary people exist). Don't get it twisted.

I'm not. The right is though. Trans women are "lesser men", tying into the white supremacists' notion of an ubermensch. Trans men are "victimized women", and don't know what they're doing. Non-binary people are illegal under "gods law", and less than human, and so shouldn't exist. The right is poison beyond all measure.

The above poster's signature proves how narcissistic and delusional these people are, to put it nicely. They literally don't know the first fucking thing they're talking about, because they literally don't fucking care about anything other than themselves.

[Picairn]

"Nazis are socialists" is a braindead argument and "authoritarianism is left-wing" is even more braindead.

[Urkennalaid]

Socialism encompasses a lot more than just Communism. Just because Socialist Faction A goes to war against Socialist Faction B does not absolve either of their socialism.

Nothing in Nazi Germany was socialist. They didn't collectivize anything, they didn't implement any socialist policies. They explicitly stated how much they hated socialists. You're simply being disingenuous here, and you have no historical basis to prove that Nazi Germany was socialist.

[North Jus Intius]

In case you aren't aware, the Nazis of the future received a gift from the Nazis in the past. Trying to paint Nazism as socialist is quickly becoming a textbook Nazi tactic at this point. They do this intentionally to "redpill" people whose education inadequately taught them about history. This ignorance makes them more vulnerable to this vile propaganda, which spits in the face of victims of the Holocaust.

[The Proud Transphobe]

"Nazis are socialists" is a braindead argument and "authoritarianism is left-wing" is even more braindead.

"Nazi" is literally just short for "National Socialist". And at the time of Hitler's rise to power, they were very much accepted as socialist worldwide. Modern socialists have to play these linguistic games and practice historical revisionism to bifurcate themselves away from Nazism because it wasn't until later the consequences of Nazism were actually realized. The point is to shield socialism in general from guilt by association. Now in fairness, Nazis were a very specific faction of socialist that have little in common with other socialists... but let's stop pretending they don't fall under the larger umbrella of socialism.

[Cannot think of a name]

I can't believe we're talking about how the Nazis were actually socialist. This is insane, there is no factual basis on this. It's such a dumb argument to even have. The first people the Nazis went after were communists and other leftists in Germany. Cultural Marxism is a phrase used by the modern right, but it was previously called Cultural Bolshevism, which tied Judaism to communism. The fact we're even having this discussion is ridiculous. Just straight up trying to remake history.

Well, the best thing to do when people notice things are getting a little nazi 'round here is to go, "NO! YOU'RE NAZIS!" Being right doesn't matter as long as you drag out the conversation so that anyone else coming by instead of going, "holy shit, it is gettin' a little Nazi 'round here" will go, "Oh no, that looks like a lot, I'm not getting involved in whatever you're shouting at each other about..."

[Picairn]

"Nazi" is literally just short for "National Socialist".

Yes, and North Korea is a Democratic Republic.

[El Lazaro]

"Nazis are socialists" is a braindead argument and "authoritarianism is left-wing" is even more braindead.

"Nazi" is literally just short for "National Socialist". And at the time of Hitler's rise to power, they were very much accepted as socialist worldwide. Modern socialists have to play these linguistic games and practice historical revisionism to bifurcate themselves away from Nazism because it wasn't until later the consequences of Nazism were actually realized. The point is to shield socialism in general from guilt by association. Now in fairness, Nazis were a very specific faction of socialist that have little in common with other socialists... but let's stop pretending they don't fall under the larger umbrella of socialism.

The DPRK is literally just short for Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. Modern pro-democracy revisionists are linguistically bifurcating historical associations (I am very smart.)

[North Jus Intius]

"Nazis are socialists" is a braindead argument and "authoritarianism is left-wing" is even more braindead.

"Nazi" is literally just short for "National Socialist". And at the time of Hitler's rise to power, they were very much accepted as socialist worldwide. Modern socialists have to play these linguistic games and practice historical revisionism to bifurcate themselves away from Nazism because it wasn't until later the consequences of Nazism were actually realized. The point is to shield socialism in general from guilt by association. Now in fairness, Nazis were a very specific faction of socialist that have little in common with other socialists... but let's stop pretending they don't fall under the larger umbrella of socialism.

Pre-war Germany, yes, large numbers of the party were dedicated to socialist ideas. That quickly ended after Hitler became Chancellor, thanks to his nationalized radios.

[Urkennalaid]

"Nazi" is literally just short for "National Socialist". And at the time of Hitler's rise to power, they were very much accepted as socialist worldwide. Modern socialists have to play these linguistic games and practice historical revisionism to bifurcate themselves away from Nazism because it wasn't until later the consequences of Nazism were actually realized. The point is to shield socialism in general from guilt by association. Now in fairness, Nazis were a very specific faction of socialist that have little in common with other socialists... but let's stop pretending they don't fall under the larger umbrella of socialism.

Saying the Nazis were very much accepted as socialist worldwide is so fucking dumb, I'm not going to actually try to convince you cause you probably DO know they aren't socialist but you are being incredibly disingenuous and acting super stupid. What a fucking joke, literally just fascism apologia.

You spit on the grave of all of those murdered by the Nazis with your rhetoric. The countless men, women and children who were tortured, starved and killed by the Nazis. Fucking disgusting.

[The Proud Transphobe]

In case you aren't aware, the Nazis of the future received a gift from the Nazis in the past. Trying to paint Nazism as socialist is quickly becoming a textbook Nazi tactic at this point. They do this intentionally to "redpill" people whose education inadequately taught them about history. This ignorance makes them more vulnerable to this vile propaganda, which spits in the face of victims of the Holocaust.

That doesn't make any sense. If a pro-Nazi individual says Nazism is socialist, doesn't that imply the person is arguing in favor of socialism? Yet no one who argues this supports socialism. Everyone who makes that argument considers all forms of what they consider to be socialism (which incluldes Nazism) to be totally evil, and that is the most naïve point of the claim.

[Cannot think of a name]

"Nazis are socialists" is a braindead argument and "authoritarianism is left-wing" is even more braindead.

"Nazi" is literally just short for "National Socialist". And at the time of Hitler's rise to power, they were very much accepted as socialist worldwide. Modern socialists have to play these linguistic games and practice historical revisionism to bifurcate themselves away from Nazism because it wasn't until later the consequences of Nazism were actually realized. The point is to shield socialism in general from guilt by association. Now in fairness, Nazis were a very specific faction of socialist that have little in common with other socialists... but let's stop pretending they don't fall under the larger umbrella of socialism.

Hey...do you know what the full name of North Korea is?

EDIT: Mid post I had to get up to get the door, so I didn't know this was well tread territory all of a sudden...

[Urkennalaid]

Let's just ignore this person. They're doing fascist apologia, and their name literally is "The Proud Transphobe" I have no problem debating right-wingers but this person is just insane. No point in debating someone who's making this many goofy ass points.

[Rusozak]

Reminder that the linking of Nazism (aka national socialism) to the left-wing socialists is historical revisionism by the far right to disassociate the Nazis from the far right and turn socialists into even more of a boogeyman, and is by no means made in good faith.

[North Jus Intius]

In case you aren't aware, the Nazis of the future received a gift from the Nazis in the past. Trying to paint Nazism as socialist is quickly becoming a textbook Nazi tactic at this point. They do this intentionally to "redpill" people whose education inadequately taught them about history. This ignorance makes them more vulnerable to this vile propaganda, which spits in the face of victims of the Holocaust.

That doesn't make any sense. If a pro-Nazi individual says Nazism is socialist, doesn't that imply the person is arguing in favor of socialism? Yet no one who argues this supports socialism. Everyone who makes that argument considers all forms of what they consider to be socialism (which incluldes Nazism) to be totally evil, and that is the most naïve point of the claim.

This is the worst attempt at filibuster I've ever seen. Seriously, you said absolutely nothing. I'm going to assume you're just a Russian troll, and treat you as such.

[Picairn]

"Socialism is when Nazi Germany privatizes, and the more assets and services it privatizes, the more socialist it is. And when it brings slave labour into the corporations' factories, it's communism."

[The Proud Transphobe]

"Nazi" is literally just short for "National Socialist". And at the time of Hitler's rise to power, they were very much accepted as socialist worldwide. Modern socialists have to play these linguistic games and practice historical revisionism to bifurcate themselves away from Nazism because it wasn't until later the consequences of Nazism were actually realized. The point is to shield socialism in general from guilt by association. Now in fairness, Nazis were a very specific faction of socialist that have little in common with other socialists... but let's stop pretending they don't fall under the larger umbrella of socialism.

Saying the Nazis were very much accepted as socialist worldwide is so fucking dumb, I'm not going to actually try to convince you cause you probably DO know they aren't socialist but you are being incredibly disingenuous and acting super stupid. What a fucking joke, literally just fascism apologia.

You spit on the grave of all of those murdered by the Nazis with your rhetoric. The countless men, women and children who were tortured, starved and killed by the Nazis. Fucking disgusting.

"Apologia"? I celebrate every victory against Nazis and Fascists the exact same as I celebrate every victory against Communists. I spit on the grave of Hitler the same as the grave of Stalin. This binary worldview where the only two possible extremes are Communism and Fascism is extremely socialist-centric. It is a binary that I completely reject. My visceral hatred for Communism doesn't make me any more Fascist than my visceral hatred for Fascism makes me Communist. Both of these totalitarian socialist ideologies need to be buried under the dustbin of history and never exhumed again.

[El Lazaro]

If we want to be pedantic though, Nazi kind of isn’t short for National Socialist. Members of the Social Democratic Party were nicknamed “Sozis” (after sozialdemokrat), and the word “Nazi” (National+sozi) was invented as a more derogatory mirror insult for NSDAP members that happened to be the diminutive for Ignaz, which was the 1930s Austrian/Bavarian equivalent to Cletus Billyjim Bobjoe from what I understand. Calling the NSDAP the Nazi Party was basically like calling ISIS Daesh at the time; it wasn’t a popular term among the people it described.

[Urkennalaid]

I will always be a socialist and I'm enjoying the absolute insane takes that have been posted in the past hour. It's honestly very entertaining and I will not be seriously responding because it doesn't deserve a serious response with how goofy this debate is.

[The Proud Transphobe]

I will always be a socialist and I'm enjoying the absolute insane takes that have been posted in the past hour. It's honestly very entertaining and I will not be seriously responding because it doesn't deserve a serious response with how goofy this debate is.

Do what you will, but I am going wave this little gem right back at you, because it was totally uncalled for:

You spit on the grave of all of those murdered by the Nazis with your rhetoric. The countless men, women and children who were tortured, starved and killed by the Nazis. Fucking disgusting.

[Picairn]

>Privatized public assets, industries and services
>Outsourced military production into the hands of private companies, as well as wealthy entrepeneurs and industrialists
>Ordered the compulsory formation of cartels under government support and regulation
>Viewed privatization as a good way to raise budget revenue
>"Private property was considered a precondition to developing the creativity of members of the German race in the best interest of the people"
>Large corporations like Krupp, IG Farben, and automobile manufacturers became "willing partners in the destruction of political pluralism in Germany" in exchange for frozen wages, the power to suppress worker strikes and unions, and abolished collective bargaining
>Banned all trade unions and outlawed strikes
>Hostile to welfare, promoted Social Darwinism, and only set up quasi-private charitable foundations helping "racially pure Aryan workers" as "racial self-help" and not welfare, all other "undesirables" excluded
>De facto semi-serfdom from 1935, when the consent of the employer was required for a worker to change his job
>Economy ran on Mefo bills and plunder, whole thing was a pyramid scheme waiting to collapse

"But Nazi Germany was socialist!"

[HISPIDA]

if you wanna get really specific it can be vaguely argued that some trends of fascism have some vague theoretical basis in some vaguely anti-marxian trends of socialism made by some theorists but the only one that even remotely springs to mind is like. national syndicalism? but even then.

the whole "nazi germany was actually socialist guys u gotta believe me" falls apart very quickly when taking a look at how nazi germany was structured. the ideology itself (and fascism as a whole) is inherently hierarchical, which explicitly makes it non-socialist, and that's not even including how the nazi german state itself worked.

If we want to be pedantic though, Nazi kind of isn’t short for National Socialist. Members of the Social Democratic Party were nicknamed “Sozis” (after sozialdemokrat), and the word “Nazi” (National+sozi) was invented as a more derogatory mirror insult for NSDAP members that happened to be the diminutive for Ignaz, which was the 1930s Austrian/Bavarian equivalent to Cletus Billyjim Bobjoe from what I understand. Calling the NSDAP the Nazi Party was basically like calling ISIS Daesh at the time; it wasn’t a popular term among the people it described.

i was under the impression that the term "nazi" was an abbreviation for "nationalsozialismus" or "nationalsozialistische". the more you know.

[Cannot think of a name]

I will always be a socialist and I'm enjoying the absolute insane takes that have been posted in the past hour. It's honestly very entertaining and I will not be seriously responding because it doesn't deserve a serious response with how goofy this debate is.

Do what you will, but I am going wave this little gem right back at you, because it was totally uncalled for:

You spit on the grave of all of those murdered by the Nazis with your rhetoric. The countless men, women and children who were tortured, starved and killed by the Nazis. Fucking disgusting.

Nah, they about nailed it.

[The Proud Transphobe]

Do what you will, but I am going wave this little gem right back at you, because it was totally uncalled for:

Nah, they about nailed it.

How does drawing connections among horrible, totalitarian ideologies imply I denigrate the victims of any of those ideologies? Please explain.