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Civilian uses of body cameras?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Are body cameras good insurance against false accusations/rumors?

Yes
43
69%
No
13
21%
Other
6
10%
 
Total votes : 62

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Stylan
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Postby Stylan » Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:35 pm

Saiwana wrote:I'm not sure if I really believe the common statistics on the topic of sexual harassment/assault. It doesn't make sense to me if people by default lie about so many things at different points in their life for so many reasons, but in this one realm/domain, they're all of the sudden supposed to be taken as more truthful and forthcoming? Show me a single person who has never lied about anything ever? Chances are they don't exist. We're all bad/flawed people, just to varying extents.

People don't lie about theft very often, right? People don't lie about murders either - most people don't want the drama that comes with having to involve law enforcement and such. I agree, innocent until proven guilty, and everyone should be allowed to defend themselves - and yes, the "woke"/cancellation approach is awful, and needs to be done away with. But most SA reports are usually truthful - especially if the police are involved. 99 percent of people will do anything to avoid having to involve law enforcement, and in the case of a false SA accusation especially so, considering the penalties and ostracization one would face for such an act. The woke approach of complete refusal to engage with the accused is obviously wrong as I said though.
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Fractalnavel
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Postby Fractalnavel » Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:11 pm

There was a backlash over Google Glass because of perceived surveillance issues. Has anything changed since then to make that sort of thing more acceptable? And how do you handle that in private spaces such as restrooms and homes. This is a subset of lifelogging, and a conceptual extension of panopticon. The term 'surveillance society' pretty much covers it. Surveillance isn't just recordings of images etc., but also intelligence generated from data collected from our online and economic actions, for example. That surveillance is then turned back on us in terms of advertising and 'influence'.

Which brings to mind this bit by Paul Ford:
Our software is bullshit, our literary essays are too long, the good editors all quit or got fired, hardly anyone is experimenting with form in a way that wakes me up, the IDEs haven't caught up with the 1970s, the R&D budgets are weak, the little zines are badly edited, the tweets are poor, the short stories make no sense, people still care too much about magazines, the Facebook posts are nightmares, LinkedIn has ruined capitalism, and the big tech companies that have arisen are exhausting, lumbering gold-thirsty kraken that swim around with sour looks on their face wondering why we won't just give them all our gold and save the time. With every flap of their terrible fins they squash another good idea in the interest of consolidating pablum into a single database, the better to jam it down our mental baby duck feeding tubes in order to make even more of the cognitive paté that Silicon Valley is at pains to proclaim a delicacy. Social media is veal calves being served tasty veal.

With emphasis added on that last piece.

So it's not just about cameras and defense or justice. Nor is it about 'if you haven't done anything wrong...'.

I'm reminded of the time an employer started putting IP cams in all the conference rooms, then adding an app where they could monitor them all the time in a video slideshow. No notice anywhere. Those rooms were not just used by employees, but for job interviews and customer meetings.

'If you're in public, you can be recorded'. While that seems to be the case for now, at least in popular conception, I wish it weren't so. Moving around in an anonymous box, whether physical or electronic, starts to look more than appealing. As does moving into the deep woods somewhere. Maybe I can farm and fish...

Meanwhile, we should look elsewhere for means to creating a just society. Adding cams to unjust doesn't make it just, it just gives unjust more toys.

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The Sherpa Empire
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Postby The Sherpa Empire » Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:22 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Saiwana wrote:I'm not sure if I really believe the common statistics on the topic of sexual harassment/assault. It doesn't make sense to me if people by default lie about so many things at different points in their life for so many reasons, but in this one realm/domain, they're all of the sudden supposed to be taken as more truthful and forthcoming? Show me a single person who has never lied about anything ever? Chances are they don't exist. We're all bad/flawed people, just to varying extents.

Posts like this are just self-reports.


Yeah... I think it's normal to fudge little things, like telling someone, "No, you don't look fat" even if they are a little chunky. It's not normal to just randomly accuse someone of sexual assault on a whim.
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:29 pm

Fractalnavel wrote:There was a backlash over Google Glass because of perceived surveillance issues.

A bunch of "AR" glasses have come out since with cameras to seemingly little fanfare. The survalance reaction to Google Glass always seemed so hysterical to me because sunglasses with cameras built in already existed. There was even a porn site themed on public acts performed on people with those glasses.

...or so I've heard.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:36 pm

Senkaku wrote:Such nervous nellies— the surgery to get a dashcam permanently mounted on your forehead generally has very good outcomes, there’s only hemorrhaging in like five percent of cases

Yeah, it's all fine and dandy until you start screaming "EXTERMINATE".
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Mon Mar 13, 2023 6:03 pm

Saiwana wrote:I'm not sure if I really believe the common statistics on the topic of sexual harassment/assault.

I would trust literally any statistic over your opinion.
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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:12 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Weird thing to say anonymously on the internet.

El Lazaro wrote:Unless you have a strong reason to believe you’ll get into a legal dispute over a non-traffic related incident that you aren’t necessarily to blame for, it’s pretty weird, paranoid, and/or creepy.

Such nervous nellies— the surgery to get a dashcam permanently mounted on your forehead generally has very good outcomes, there’s only hemorrhaging in like five percent of cases


I have often thought about the human dashcam. Or forehead cam, I suppose. Not in the surgical sense but more in the...

Fractalnavel wrote:There was a backlash over Google Glass because of perceived surveillance issues. Has anything changed since then to make that sort of thing more acceptable? And how do you handle that in private spaces such as restrooms and homes. This is a subset of lifelogging


We live in an age where we could have an almost comprehensive record of real life, but will we? Or will we just end up with bizarre archives where historians wonder if anything the "diarist" says is actually true or was, instead, crafted for clout, clicks or clandestine manipulation of elections?

But mostly when I go for a walk, it gets a bit exhausting stopping all the time to take photos of the badly parked cars and other terrible or interesting things I see. And perhaps a human dashcam would better represent just how, for example, bloody steep this is. It's actually a whole genre of Youtube video as well. The cycling ones are better, though. For example. Holy shit, they've done a video of an actual place I wanted a video of. Maybe subscribing has its uses... nah.

Of course, the thread turned out to be about Mike Pence but, alas...
Last edited by Forsher on Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ar-Eris
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Postby Ar-Eris » Tue Mar 14, 2023 5:16 am

This behavior is just motivated purely by paranoia, people aren't looking out for any moment to slander you or falsely accuse you. People already use their phones to film almost anything in public anyway these days
I am not actually in favor of a sort of aristocratic dictatorship in case you were wondering


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Portzania
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Postby Portzania » Tue Mar 14, 2023 5:18 am

Ar-Eris wrote:This behavior is just motivated purely by paranoia, people aren't looking out for any moment to slander you or falsely accuse you. People already use their phones to film almost anything in public anyway these days

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Ar-Eris
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Postby Ar-Eris » Tue Mar 14, 2023 5:31 am

Portzania wrote:
Ar-Eris wrote:This behavior is just motivated purely by paranoia, people aren't looking out for any moment to slander you or falsely accuse you. People already use their phones to film almost anything in public anyway these days

cia hands typed this post

Ah yes of course the cia is behind false rape accusations
I am not actually in favor of a sort of aristocratic dictatorship in case you were wondering


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Postby Socalist Republic Of Mercenaries » Tue Mar 14, 2023 5:36 am

Yes, it would be actually effective, but it would be a pain in the arse to wear one around everywhere, but maybe unless they are miniaturized to the size of a grain of rice, but otherwise, it would be a pain in the arse.
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The Holy Therns
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Postby The Holy Therns » Tue Mar 14, 2023 6:43 am

Saiwana wrote:I'm not sure if I really believe the common statistics on the topic of sexual harassment/assault. It doesn't make sense to me if people by default lie about so many things at different points in their life for so many reasons, but in this one realm/domain, they're all of the sudden supposed to be taken as more truthful and forthcoming? Show me a single person who has never lied about anything ever? Chances are they don't exist. We're all bad/flawed people, just to varying extents.


Are the phrases "I did not eat one of the cookies" and "I was sexually assaulted" equal?
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The Second Order of Life
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Postby The Second Order of Life » Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:22 am

The Holy Therns wrote:
Saiwana wrote:I'm not sure if I really believe the common statistics on the topic of sexual harassment/assault. It doesn't make sense to me if people by default lie about so many things at different points in their life for so many reasons, but in this one realm/domain, they're all of the sudden supposed to be taken as more truthful and forthcoming? Show me a single person who has never lied about anything ever? Chances are they don't exist. We're all bad/flawed people, just to varying extents.


Are the phrases "I did not eat one of the cookies" and "I was sexually assaulted" equal?


The fact is that the percentage of false accusations of SA is pretty much equal to the percentage of false accusations for other crimes. Estimates vary quite a bit, from 2% to 10%, but higher estimates than that often include undecided cases (those who did not have enough evidence to prosecute) as false. If someone stole your bike, but you had no evidence that it happened, someone still stole your bike, right?

People do lie about SA, Saiwana, it's just that it's not a prevalent disease or a widespread problem, it's as problematic as other false accusations, yet people LOVE to blow it waaay out of proportion. Believing victims doesn't mean "guilty until proven innocent", it means giving a voice to people who often do not get one. It means taking their stories seriously, instead of trying to poke holes at them every time they show up (which is a thing that happens a lot online). Is that too much to ask for?
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:29 am

At the end of the day, the far right tell each other that there's a huge risk of women accusing men of a sex crime and ruining his life because the already very limited degree to which sex criminals face consequences for their actions is too much for them. The far right want more license to harass and molest and rape people and get away with it. They want even less credence given to victims. Sai has just fallen for these lies his people tell.
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Portzania
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Postby Portzania » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:34 am

Ifreann wrote: The far right want more license to harass and molest and rape people and get away with it.

Gonna call bullshit on that one, can't even begin to explain on the mental gymnastics on how wanting more security and footage on crimes means evil far right wants to rape women.
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Theworlddestroyer
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Postby Theworlddestroyer » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:38 am

Portzania wrote:
Ifreann wrote: The far right want more license to harass and molest and rape people and get away with it.

Gonna call bullshit on that one, can't even begin to explain on the mental gymnastics on how wanting more security and footage on crimes means evil far right wants to rape women.
i agree

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:38 am

Portzania wrote:
Ifreann wrote: The far right want more license to harass and molest and rape people and get away with it.

Gonna call bullshit on that one, can't even begin to explain on the mental gymnastics on how wanting more security and footage on crimes means evil far right wants to rape women.

The far right doesn't want more security camera, this one NSG poster does, because he is simply too credulous to discern the lies that his own side tell.
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New Stonen
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Postby New Stonen » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:40 am

Duncaq wrote:With the advent of AI, we are entering an era where photographic evidence will become increasingly unreliable.
Arguably this has been the case since photoshop became a thing , or even Stalin messing about editing photographs.
As AI tech moves into convincing video creation, video footage may also become unreliable as a source of evidence.
I'm pretty sure this is already happening to a degree.

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United States Reborn
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Postby United States Reborn » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:43 am

Ifreann wrote:The far right want more license to harass and molest and rape people and get away with it.

Based on what? Mike Pence's rule about being in a room with women without his wife, or Saiwania's post here?

Besides, someone who has no problem with encouraging children to transition and those nauseating drag shows aimed at children really shouldn't be accusing others of this kind of thing.
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Ar-Eris
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Postby Ar-Eris » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:46 am

United States Reborn wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The far right want more license to harass and molest and rape people and get away with it.

Based on what? Mike Pence's rule about being in a room with women without his wife, or Saiwania's post here?

Besides, someone who has no problem with encouraging children to transition and those nauseating drag shows aimed at children really shouldn't be accusing others of this kind of thing.

Someone has consumed propaganda today
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The Second Order of Life
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Postby The Second Order of Life » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:47 am

Ar-Eris wrote:
United States Reborn wrote:Based on what? Mike Pence's rule about being in a room with women without his wife, or Saiwania's post here?

Besides, someone who has no problem with encouraging children to transition and those nauseating drag shows aimed at children really shouldn't be accusing others of this kind of thing.

Someone has consumed propaganda today


Might be having an overdose on brainforce pills :blink:
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Postby Bewaffnete Krafte » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:48 am

United States Reborn wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The far right want more license to harass and molest and rape people and get away with it.

Based on what? Mike Pence's rule about being in a room with women without his wife, or Saiwania's post here?

Besides, someone who has no problem with encouraging children to transition and those nauseating drag shows aimed at children really shouldn't be accusing others of this kind of thing.

Oh, those horrifying drag shows where they wear bright colors and makeup and giving teens (not kids) chemicals and medical aide to make them feel happier and fuller in life, how awful! They're basically molesting them already!
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Postby United States Reborn » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:49 am

Bewaffnete Krafte wrote:
United States Reborn wrote:Based on what? Mike Pence's rule about being in a room with women without his wife, or Saiwania's post here?

Besides, someone who has no problem with encouraging children to transition and those nauseating drag shows aimed at children really shouldn't be accusing others of this kind of thing.

Oh, those horrifying drag shows where they wear bright colors and makeup and giving teens (not kids) chemicals and medical aide to make them feel happier and fuller in life, how awful! They're basically molesting them already!

My point proven.
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Ar-Eris
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Postby Ar-Eris » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:51 am

United States Reborn wrote:
Bewaffnete Krafte wrote:Oh, those horrifying drag shows where they wear bright colors and makeup and giving teens (not kids) chemicals and medical aide to make them feel happier and fuller in life, how awful! They're basically molesting them already!

My point proven.

I agree we should ban all surgery and chemical treatment until people are at least 25
I am not actually in favor of a sort of aristocratic dictatorship in case you were wondering


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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:53 am

United States Reborn wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The far right want more license to harass and molest and rape people and get away with it.

Based on what? Mike Pence's rule about being in a room with women without his wife, or Saiwania's post here?

Based on their lies about women ruining the lives of innocent men by pretending to have been raped, as I said. They've seen one or two powerful men actually going to jail for their sex crimes following a mass public movement of women coming forward about being victims and they're freaking out.

Though since you mention Mike Pence, I imagine he'd be dismayed at being included in this discussion. After all, he doesn't avoid women because he's afraid of being accused of assaulting them, he avoids women because he's afraid of being tempted into having lustful thoughts.

Besides, someone who has no problem with encouraging children to transition and those nauseating drag shows aimed at children really shouldn't be accusing others of this kind of thing.

Aren't you just delightful.
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