Mating as a group activity instead of a pair bonding one?

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Here you are comparing one half of the population, men, with web forum users, as if these are distinct groups. There are men, and there are web forum users. One group is horny, the other group is not. Utter gibberish, completely disconnected from reality. It's wild how you refuse to acknowledge the world around you. Like, surely you have been around here long enough to be aware that there are posters who are married with children. The most prolific poster on this forum is married to another poster on this forum. They met through this forum.

As I've stated before his claims are in fact false and has obviously never hung around any "normal" forum after the mods and owners are gone. Boy oh boy the type of sh*t I've heard and read on the forums of most social media platforms.

By your logic, talking about weed makes one count as a pothead.

[Stellar Colonies]

If your position relies on the idea that most people are lying, that could suggest there’s a problem with it.

[Land of The Furries]

As I've stated before his claims are in fact false and has obviously never hung around any "normal" forum after the mods and owners are gone. Boy oh boy the type of sh*t I've heard and read on the forums of most social media platforms.

By your logic, talking about weed makes one count as a pothead.

Why thank you for the compliment man. And so what if I'm a stoner the point being that being on the normal forums before while being sober is the fact that I have seen the type of stuff on the forums of adult related stuff being said in other games and social media platforms thus proving your point wrong. I mean I did mention that horny individuals have been known to get on christian forums too.

[Ifreann]

Here you are comparing one half of the population, men, with web forum users,

How is it not obvious that "might be as horny; possibly more so; but either way had a reputation amongst themselves and the other half for being choosy about when, where, and with whom" is referring to women as a whole, on and off webforums, not to webforum users male and female?

Do you not even read your own posts?

One half of the population is horny

Webforum users, by comparison, are non-horny

[Like, surely you have been around here long enough to be aware that there are posters who are married with children.

Who claim to be. They can no more prove it than I can prove having in the past been too fixated on my crushes to go for whichever other girls I myself perceived as being interested in me back then. Sure, I'm not entitled to be taken at my word... but neither are other NSers.

Your ever reliable fall-back position for when reality intrudes on your nonsense beliefs. Maybe everyone is lying. Why on Earth you are so determined to continued believing that web forum users are among the least horny people as to imagine people pretending for years to be ordinary, middle-aged married people, I will never understand. You obviously put no thought into this "fact", but even so you are zealously devoted to it.

[Land of The Furries]

By your logic, talking about weed makes one count as a pothead.

OMG I ACTUALLY DO SOUND LIKE I'M HIGH LMAO

Why thank you for the compliment man. And so what if I'm a stoner the point being that being on the normal forums before while being sober is the fact that I have seen the type of stuff on the forums of adult related stuff being said in other games and social media platforms thus proving your point wrong. I mean I did mention that horny individuals have been known to get on christian forums too.

[The Dodo Republic]

What is this-

Uh. No. I’d rather bang my partner than have a “group bang” preferably.

Although it would be funny to see if there is an argument for industrialized production of humans. In that regard yall ever hear of the game Scorn? Doesn’t that kind of show something along those lines or something-

[Ethel mermania]

I am pretty sure it isnt.

Yes. I am not making up enemies in my head, this is what they all want.

No, this is what the OP thinks. Dont blame anyone else for it.

[Dystopian Texas]

What is this-

Uh. No. I’d rather bang my partner than have a “group bang” preferably.

Although it would be funny to see if there is an argument for industrialized production of humans. In that regard yall ever hear of the game Scorn? Doesn’t that kind of show something along those lines or something-

And that's the real point, isn't it? People should be able to choose to follow whatever lifestyle involves them and other consenting adults. They should even be free to practice celibacy, if that's what they prefer. It's nobody's business what two or more consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms.

[Mtwara]

You think being a bonobo is all fun and games untl one of them gets an STD.

[The Dodo Republic]

What is this-

Uh. No. I’d rather bang my partner than have a “group bang” preferably.

Although it would be funny to see if there is an argument for industrialized production of humans. In that regard yall ever hear of the game Scorn? Doesn’t that kind of show something along those lines or something-

And that's the real point, isn't it? People should be able to choose to follow whatever lifestyle involves them and other consenting adults. They should even be free to practice celibacy, if that's what they prefer. It's nobody's business what two or more consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms.

This completely. As long as such activities are concentual it doesn’t matter who does what in their private lives.

[Farnhamia]

op as someone who got increasingly deranged over this due to sleep deprivation . Just don’t. Just accept you will be alone get some high proof alcohol and use it to swig down your anti depressants

*** 1 day ban for flaming ***

[Atlantic Isles]

Before I even start poking holes in the OP's argument, I'll just point out that this reads... quite a lot like someone who got caught cheating and is butthurt that they did something wrong. Just sayin'.

The average male's sex drive is so intense, so extremely overwhelming against all capacity for rational thought

According to who? There just isn't data to support that argument. Way to play in to the "all men ever think about is sex" trope. Let alone that you're the one arguing (and backward-rationalizing) that we should all just live in a constant state of orgy... or something like that.

(Obviously mine is milder, as evidenced by the fact that I am typing this instead of, let's say, watching pornography.)

Mhm... way to pat yourself on the back. We don't, as you seem to believe, constantly consume pornography and jerk off. Yeah, it's a thing people do. Yeah, it's perfectly normal. No, most people don't spend a ton of time doing it. Get the fuck off your high horse. You're the one arguing that we should abandon our monogamous ways and return to polyamory. Never heard that one before and I don't expect to hear it from anyone other than someone who's abnormally horny or who just wishes they didn't have to stay loyal to one partner.

As such, with men/boys not having the self-control to uphold monogamy

That's just insulting. And untrue- and you know it. You seem like you would be one of those types to say "all men cheat." No. We don't. We are perfectly capable of upholding monogamy.

Who hurt you? Are you trying to justify your cheating ways? Are you trying to rationalize someone cheating on you?

Not sure why the mods haven't locked this down, seeing how it's going so far, but whatever.

[Juansonia]

--snip--

I have an alternate solution for "high sex drive" and "avoiding poverty." You might ask, "pornography?" but no - that too is a gateway to impoverishing subscriptions to content creators! What's far cheaper, with zero risk of child care, is simple: homosexuality. Sure, the lube costs run up, but less than baby food or OnlyFans. No self control needed. No spurning needed. Much more minor re-writes to society needed. Better than bonobos too - 100% identical DNA is found in gay bars (knew I should have left my blacklight at home).

1. You forgot about increased STI risk compared to reproduction-capable heterosexual intercourse

2. Fertile women also are capable of reproduction-incapable sexual intercourse in the same way

3. A lot of people are straight, do you want to force them into a closet?

---

--snip--

Yes. Agree with this. As long as the only people allowed in this group activity are Catgirls only.

Fine, us catboys will form our own group. We'll aslo welcome the catgirls and catenbies to join, but it's our group, not yours.

---

It'd only reduce one reason, but there are several more for anyone to say no.

Even in the context of casual sex?

Maybe, maybe not. There's only one way to find out.

Frankly, I would speculate the variety of body types portrayed in porn are more a reflection of the variety the average guy craves, rather than of variability between guys in what they find attractive. But again, only one way to find out.

Not only is there more to it than body type(even in casual contexts), but there are body types that are deal-breakers. I believe that some of those are called genital preferences.

1. You say that that's the average male. Source?

I find it hard to believe the people who disagree with me on this one care that much about "sources" and "evidence." Did they need "sources" and "evidence" to speculate that I was just "projecting" my own sex drive onto others? If so, what grounds have they to stand on to claim to care that much about it now?

You seem to be projecting other people's claims onto me, I don't remember speculatung that.

The converse is not as hypocritical, as the fact that I'm typing this instead of viewing porn demonstrates I'm not quite the horndog I'm characterizing the average guy as being.

fair.

Webforums, by their very nature, attract the least horny of people.

I am a counterexample.

But if it's true that the average guy isn't having sex before he can afford children, then he isn't practicing what he indirectly preaches every time he uses "virgin" as an insult. It'd be like an openly gay guy using "that's so gay" as an insult

which sometimes happens. Also, it's easier to disconnect "virgin" from virginity than it is to disconnect "fat" from girth.

2. Among those who have premarital sex while fertile, they usually use contraception of some form(if it is pregnancy-risking intercourse anyways).

Right, but everyone knows contraception can fail. The same couples who would rush inside if there were a thunderstorm aren't risk averse enough to hold off on copulating. For the woman, one could speculate that it's in the context of knowing for a fact she wouldn't keep the baby. The guy is either taking her at her word, or too damn horny to be held back by the risk of ruining her life, his own life, and the resulting offspring's life combined. By the number of things for which guys don't take their girlfriends at their word, I'm going with the latter.

I could say the same about driving, barfighting, or even walking down stairs, but a life with no risk isn't a life. You are ignoring the fact that contraceptives change the math of the situation.

With me unable to risk googling average horniless levels, providing a source for your earlier claims is either up to you or a lost cause. By the lack of a cited source as I mentioned earlier, I'm going to go with source-citing being a lost cause.

See above.

See above.

Protection isn't guaranteed to be perfectly effective, and the effectiveness of condoms is currently not well known. Currently, the best way to prevent the transmission of STIs is to keep sexual intercourse within the context of closed groups (partnerships or larger) that have been tested.

Note the phrase closed "groups". As in, insular communities that test people for all the diseases before they are allowed into the community at all.

Of course, people would call that "xenophobic." But that would be better than trying to tout monogamy as the solution without knowing how many people are or aren't living up to it. And it would slow the spread of whichever next pandemic happens too.

Given how you touted protection being used in the groups wiping out STIs, I didn't know that you meant closed groups with testing.

[The Ever-Wanderer]

I have an alternate solution for "high sex drive" and "avoiding poverty." You might ask, "pornography?" but no - that too is a gateway to impoverishing subscriptions to content creators! What's far cheaper, with zero risk of child care, is simple: homosexuality. Sure, the lube costs run up, but less than baby food or OnlyFans. No self control needed. No spurning needed. Much more minor re-writes to society needed. Better than bonobos too - 100% identical DNA is found in gay bars (knew I should have left my blacklight at home).

1. You forgot about increased STI risk compared to reproduction-capable heterosexual intercourse

2. Fertile women also are capable of reproduction-incapable sexual intercourse in the same way

3. A lot of people are straight, do you want to force them into a closet?

That's correlated more directly to number of partners. Of course, it works for everyone. No, just offering an easier outlet then *checks notes* bonobo orgies.

[Kenowa]

I used to think likewise until a guy from some arab country (I think Lebanon but I don't remember) came forward. He said there are more men that remain virigins in his culture since the alpha males are able to marry several women without society looking at them as if they were crazy. I think that the best course of action would be encouraging male homosexuality and male-on-male polygamy while discouraging female homosexuality and descouraging any-on-female polygamy.

But of course, that's not a realistic solution, nor is the adoption of polygamy as norm in the west anytime soon.

[Kenowa]

op as someone who got increasingly deranged over this due to sleep deprivation . Just don’t. Just accept you will be alone get some high proof alcohol and use it to swig down your anti depressants

If op was destined to be alone, he would know it. If he didn't, don't tell him unless requested to.

We make fun of certain redpilled guys for thinking they stand a chance but at the end of the day they are happier than us that know how things truly work. Even I as someone that pretty much gave up on seeking companionship still study and go to the gym since the man is inherently seeking progress.

So yeah, being honest about your opinion is appreciated, but I doubt OP is the kind to accept this as a truth and also doubt he is actually doomed to be alone, as he still seems to have hope. Time will tell only if the hope is good for him and he gets out or only makes the cold realization worse, but you have to respect his choice.

[Land of The Furries]

Honestly as he clearly did state in his first comment I don't think he actually knows what he is talking about, since as OP stated in the beginning post he says that he has never been in a poly relationship but thinks that is the way to go. But honestly I think that everyone should experience what they will and not force polygamy on others who wish to stay monogamous. Plus how can you base an argument on something that you yourself have no clue what it implies and having little to no experience with?

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Before I even start poking holes in the OP's argument, I'll just point out that this reads... quite a lot like someone who got caught cheating and is butthurt that they did something wrong.

Refreshing break from the usual "hurr hurr you're just jealous others get laid" talk invoked when I mention how insane it is to risk ruining one's own life, hers, and their potential offspring if one knows he is on the hook instead of the state if she keeps the baby. But still just as incorrect.

According to who? There just isn't data to support that argument.

There isn't "data" to support your speculation about my personal life either, but that didn't stop you. Just saying.

Anyway, my argument is twofold:

A: They took the aforementioned "ruining at least 3 lives" risk, and...

B. The people who supposedly disagree with part A are the same ones who make me out to be "projecting" my "own" sex drive... and turn out to be wrong. Well, what else could they be wrong about?

Way to play in to the "all men ever think about is sex" trope. Let alone that you're the one arguing (and backward-rationalizing) that we should all just live in a constant state of orgy... or something like that.

Nah, just that we should drop the facade, stop claiming to live up to monogamous ideals no one can prove they live up to anyway, and create alternative cultural norms where people's primal ape impulses can become a blessing instead of a curse.

Mhm... way to pat yourself on the back. We don't, as you seem to believe, constantly consume pornography and jerk off.

Of course not. They're either having actual sex, or if they aren't, they aren't practicing what they de facto preach indirectly every time they use "virgin" as an insult.

That's just insulting. And untrue- and you know it. You seem like you would be one of those types to say "all men cheat." No. We don't. We are perfectly capable of upholding monogamy.

And yet, they're not capable of waiting until they can afford kids to have sex that risks knocking her up. Is the risk of ruining 3 lives really that much less unthinkable than the risk of somewhat disappointing one's wife?

And just how severe do you think the level of disappointment is? Millions of men are married to plus size women. Does this stop other women from fretting about their weight? Either they think plus size women's husbands are cheating on them, or they don't care whether plus size women's husbands are faithful to them or not. Either way, does that strike you as the reaction of someone who both prioritizes monogamy highly and trusts others to live up to it?

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Honestly as he clearly did state in his first comment I don't think he actually knows what he is talking about, since as OP stated in the beginning post he says that he has never been in a poly relationship but thinks that is the way to go. But honestly I think that everyone should experience what they will and not force polygamy on others who wish to stay monogamous. Plus how can you base an argument on something that you yourself have no clue what it implies and having little to no experience with?

I don't have direct experience with polyamory, in and of itself.

But I do have experience with the fact that its detractors make me out to be liar for what I say about myself, yet make me out to be the bad guy when entertaining the possibility they themselves may be the liars. I do have experience with the fact that its detractors expect me to believe respondents about being faithful to their spouses, even though there are numerous traits, superficial or otherwise, that they themselves would say are considered unattractive despite being held by numerous married individuals.

Also, "force" polygamy on others? Where did I say anything about this being through anything resembling coercion? Ideally we should resolve whether or not a social transition to more bonobo-esque mating practices are better before deciding how to go about it.

[Tarsonis]

What silly lies you tell yourself.

All else being the same, any amount of time spent browsing webforums is not spent having sex or watching porn.

So yeah.

So what you're saying is, you haven't figured out how to split screen your desktop yet.

[Ostroeuropa]

The average male's sex drive is so intense, so extremely overwhelming against all capacity for rational thought,

*mouth twitches*

that in their teen years most boys risk impoverishing themselves for life; much less their female sex partners; by having sex before they could afford children, with nothing to go on but her word of knowing what she would do if she fell pregnant.

*eye twitches*

(Obviously mine is milder, as evidenced by the fact that I am typing this instead of, let's say, watching pornography.)

*bites tongue*

It is absurd to expect them to go from that to having the self-control to spurn the advances of every would-be mistress, unless you think pollution somehow reduces sex drive that much between one's teen years and one's 20s.

As such, with men/boys not having the self-control to uphold monogamy

*heavy breathing*

, it's either up to women or a lost cause.

*cracks open vodka*

And by the aforementioned "more men/boys claim to be single than women/girls" statistic cited earlier, I'm going to go with monogamy being a lost cause.

So why not just drop the facade, and embrace what our evolutionary cousins, the bonobos, did,

*pours vodka*

by making this sort of thing a group activity instead of a pair bonding one? No more drama over infidelity if you never expected exclusivity in the first place. Fewer reasons for anyone of either sex to feel left out, if people have enough variety of partners to not care about any flaws, be they significant flaws or superficial ones. As well, people would be less complacent about the need to wear protection if they did not have the illusion of a monogamous partner. If people were always wearing protection (with the exception of when procreation was intended, of couse), many STDs could be eradicated in just a few generations.

*drinks vodka*.

Okay.

So.

There's... there's a lot of misandry in this post. But I think you've been told that, including in the first reply. So I'm going to address your main suggestion here. I don't think it's going to work because you're either going to need to force people to get involved, which is bad, or you're going to need to find a way to deal with people who will defect because they rightly conclude it raises their sexual desirability.

[Alternate Garza]

The problem comes when you try to find a "one size fits all" solution for every last adult. Sorry, not sorry, but people are individuals and need to be respected as such. What you do is none of my business and vice versa. There is no answer that fits everyone. Some people are perfectly happy with monogamy, some with polyamory, some with celibacy. It's best to just live and let live and let society go about its business without trying to control everyone's behavior. Non-violent, consensual acts need to remain legal and not be stigmatized whatsoever. Just because that doesn't suit someone's personal vision for the world, well, that's their problem, not mine.

I'm not interested in imposing some kind of Kantian consensus on anyone. Not everyone accepts the categorical imperative, anyway.

[Atlantic Isles]

Before I even start poking holes in the OP's argument, I'll just point out that this reads... quite a lot like someone who got caught cheating and is butthurt that they did something wrong.

Refreshing break from the usual "hurr hurr you're just jealous others get laid" talk invoked when I mention how insane it is to risk ruining one's own life, hers, and their potential offspring if one knows he is on the hook instead of the state if she keeps the baby. But still just as incorrect.

According to who? There just isn't data to support that argument.

There isn't "data" to support your speculation about my personal life either, but that didn't stop you. Just saying.

Anyway, my argument is twofold:

A: They took the aforementioned "ruining at least 3 lives" risk, and...

B. The people who supposedly disagree with part A are the same ones who make me out to be "projecting" my "own" sex drive... and turn out to be wrong. Well, what else could they be wrong about?

Way to play in to the "all men ever think about is sex" trope. Let alone that you're the one arguing (and backward-rationalizing) that we should all just live in a constant state of orgy... or something like that.

Nah, just that we should drop the facade, stop claiming to live up to monogamous ideals no one can prove they live up to anyway, and create alternative cultural norms where people's primal ape impulses can become a blessing instead of a curse.

Mhm... way to pat yourself on the back. We don't, as you seem to believe, constantly consume pornography and jerk off.

Of course not. They're either having actual sex, or if they aren't, they aren't practicing what they de facto preach indirectly every time they use "virgin" as an insult.

That's just insulting. And untrue- and you know it. You seem like you would be one of those types to say "all men cheat." No. We don't. We are perfectly capable of upholding monogamy.

And yet, they're not capable of waiting until they can afford kids to have sex that risks knocking her up. Is the risk of ruining 3 lives really that much less unthinkable than the risk of somewhat disappointing one's wife?

And just how severe do you think the level of disappointment is? Millions of men are married to plus size women. Does this stop other women from fretting about their weight? Either they think plus size women's husbands are cheating on them, or they don't care whether plus size women's husbands are faithful to them or not. Either way, does that strike you as the reaction of someone who both prioritizes monogamy highly and trusts others to live up to it?

A few fair points here. I'm too tired to split up the quote but I'll try to go point by point here.

1- "Refreshing break..." Yeah, shouldn't have gone there. Sorry.
2- "There isn't "data"..." True. Again, the ad hominem was definitely not called for. With regard to point A- yes, it's absolutely insane to take that risk, but most people I know haven't done anything like that (yeah, that I know of, there's always the possibility but I think I know most of them well enough) and I don't know of anyone that's become pregnant at my school. Sure, a portion of that can be attributed to living in a decently well-off area with good access to contraception and decent sex ed- but if the "average male" had such an insatiable desire for sex I would tend to think that there would still be an... incident... here or there. Again, who's to say that there hasn't been? I'd imagine people prefer to sweep those neatly under the rug, but things get out. I suppose what I take issue with is more the assertion that the "average" male is going out and taking those risks- not that taking those risks is well and truly beyond rational thought.
3- "Nah, just that..." To each their own, I suppose. I see your point that nobody can really prove that they live up to those ideals anymore- especially in this modern world. I don't necessarily agree that creating such norms would be the right thing for society, but I have no evidence to the contrary other than my own feelings and ideals. If everyone involved is down for it, people can decline to be involved and current standards against incest and pedophilia are upheld, I don't see too much of a problem with it. Not my cup of tea, but again, to each their own.
4- "Of course not." Well, that's enough for me. Re-reading that bit of the original post makes a bit more sense now- I see you weren't saying that males constantly watch porn- just that you could have been doing that at the moment and were instead on NS. My bad there.
5- "And yet..." Well, sort of. Some men don't wait. Everyone that I know has, to my knowledge. Just feels like you're painting with a fairly broad brush there.
6- "And just how severe..." Well, fair enough. I still think that people are capable of upholding monogamy- whether they do or don't is another thing. That's a matter of choice, not capability, for most people.

I'll take this footnote to apologize to you personally- I definitely let the tone of the rest of the thread set my opinion on the matter, which really isn't reflective of the critical thinking and analysis that we as a society should try to achieve. My language and personal attacks were ridiculously inappropriate for the situation. I became the very thing I dislike in this society- someone who takes disagreements to a personal level. Arguing is different from fighting, and I clearly took it to the latter stage. More thorough reading and analysis of your post yields some fair points whether I agree or not. So, again, my sincere apologies.

[Neanderthaland]

this is what the left wants.

Probably two of them do.

Those two should hook u... oh.

[Floofybit]

Probably two of them do.

Those two should hook u... oh.

Lol