Gun Control 2023 (V) - ATF Shenanigans, States Fight Back!

[Galloism]

I’d call the rate increase drastic. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamane ... le/2799021

You would be incorrect. In 2010 there were about 44,000 gun deaths. In 2022 there was a bit over 46,000. The rate hasn't changed drastically since the early 2000s when the crack epidemic finally began to dissipate and violent crime decreased with it.

Worth note, that's about a 4.5% increase... and population (in the census) increased 7.35% from 2010 to 2020. We only do a census every 10 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... ted_States

[Grinning Dragon]

Well for starters one falls under a constitutional right the other is a privilege when one decides to drive on public roads, whereas one does not need one to drive on private land nor needs one to buy a vehicle.

The other; there is no historical analog where such a scheme was implemented at the time of founding and ratification.

My suggestion utilizes the shall-issue principle which was declared to not be an infringement of the 2A by the Supreme Court, so my suggestion doesn’t interfere with that right.

Except that isn't what the supreme court decided under bruen, you are applying the issuance of a state permission slip for those who carry concealed in order to exercise the right to keep and bear arms which would also apply to the right to acquire and that would be a bridge to far since the right itself requires no prerequisite to exercise.
The two are not comparable and would be deemed unconstitutional as there is no historical analog.
Then there is the fact there are no historical analogs for conceal carry permits at the time of founding and if memory serves me correctly the earliest instance of such a scheme was well after the ratification of the 14th.

[Vrbo]

On another note about the ATF's pistol brace rule: Kentucky representative Thomas Massie and Ohio representative Jim Jordan have called on ATF director Steven Dettelbach to clarify comments on the pistol brace rule due to Dettelbach's committee testimony, where he did not define the term assault weapon Link here.

[Grinning Dragon]

On another note about the ATF's pistol brace rule: Kentucky representative Thomas Massie and Ohio representative Jim Jordan have called on ATF director Steven Dettelbach to clarify comments on the pistol brace rule due to Dettelbach's committee testimony, where he did not define the term assault weapon Link here.

The head jackboot is also on the record saying he isn't a firearm expert when he was asked this same question by a reporter. So if he isn't an expert why the fuck is he in that position?

[Washington Resistance Army]

You would be incorrect. In 2010 there were about 44,000 gun deaths. In 2022 there was a bit over 46,000. The rate hasn't changed drastically since the early 2000s when the crack epidemic finally began to dissipate and violent crime decreased with it.

Where are you getting that data? According to the CDC in 2010 31,672 firearm deaths and 45,222 in 2020 (last year of their data). If using 2019, since 2020 was weird it was 39,707.

I was just looking at it not long ago but can't find the same numbers now and I'm having a real Mandela effect moment. Very fucking weird.

With that being said, though, violence in general has increased quite sharply since 2020. This, to me, isn't so much a gun issue as it is a wider exposure of how fundamentally broken our society is. I think the Covid lockdowns in a lot of ways were the straw that broke the camels back, the non-stop wall to wall coverage about how every single person outside your house is a grave threat to your life seems like it provided that last final push to really break society as a whole.

[Grinning Dragon]

2nd amendment does not contain the word "own" or a synonym. You have no such right to own one and it wouldn't do you any fucking good. If guns made things safer we wouldn't have mass shootings every hour, moron. Shove your gun up your ass.

-incel keith olbermann 5/6/2023
Jesus what a fucking dumbass.

Well I see the ol whore letitia james is on a rampage against anything firearm related.
New York AG Sues Mean Arms for Selling a Magazine Lock That Can Be Removed With a Drill

James is suing Mean Arms for . . .

…aiding the illegal possession of assault weapons in New York, including the weapon used in the mass shooting in Buffalo in May 2022. New York law bans the possession of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition. Mean Arms manufactures, sells, and distributes a magazine lock, known as the MA Lock, that is marketed as a device to lock a magazine onto a semiautomatic rifle. However, the lock can easily be removed so that detachable magazines, including high-capacity magazines that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition, can be inserted into a rifle. …

The lawsuit alleges that the company deceptively and falsely advertises that installing an MA Lock on a weapon makes it legal in New York, thereby aiding and abetting the illegal possession of assault weapons in New York. Through her lawsuit, Attorney General James seeks to stop Mean Arms from doing business in New York and to require the company to pay restitution, damages, and civil penalties for its illegal practices that violated state laws and caused irreparable harm.

Shitbrick drilled out the lock and modified it to accept standard 30rd mags, but yeah it's MA Lock's fault.

[The Two Jerseys]

2nd amendment does not contain the word "own" or a synonym. You have no such right to own one and it wouldn't do you any fucking good. If guns made things safer we wouldn't have mass shootings every hour, moron. Shove your gun up your ass.

-incel keith olbermann 5/6/2023
Jesus what a fucking dumbass.

Keith needs to stick to tweeting about baseball, at least his takes there aren't completely retarded.

Well I see the ol whore letitia james is on a rampage against anything firearm related.
New York AG Sues Mean Arms for Selling a Magazine Lock That Can Be Removed With a Drill

James is suing Mean Arms for . . .

…aiding the illegal possession of assault weapons in New York, including the weapon used in the mass shooting in Buffalo in May 2022. New York law bans the possession of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition. Mean Arms manufactures, sells, and distributes a magazine lock, known as the MA Lock, that is marketed as a device to lock a magazine onto a semiautomatic rifle. However, the lock can easily be removed so that detachable magazines, including high-capacity magazines that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition, can be inserted into a rifle. …

The lawsuit alleges that the company deceptively and falsely advertises that installing an MA Lock on a weapon makes it legal in New York, thereby aiding and abetting the illegal possession of assault weapons in New York. Through her lawsuit, Attorney General James seeks to stop Mean Arms from doing business in New York and to require the company to pay restitution, damages, and civil penalties for its illegal practices that violated state laws and caused irreparable harm.

Shitbrick drilled out the lock and modified it to accept standard 30rd mags, but yeah it's MA Lock's fault.

confusedjackiechan.jpg

[Arval Va]

2nd amendment does not contain the word "own" or a synonym. You have no such right to own one and it wouldn't do you any fucking good. If guns made things safer we wouldn't have mass shootings every hour, moron. Shove your gun up your ass.

-incel keith olbermann 5/6/2023
Jesus what a fucking dumbass.

Either my brain is melting or his is.

[Kernen]

Equal application doesn't mean the test isn't arbitrary. If the state said that anyone who completed a forty-thousand hour training course could buy a gun, and subsequently applied that to everyone, that policy would be both equally applied, and arbitrarily absurd.

My suggestion is based on the assumption the test would be reasonable.

Gun control advocates have proven unwilling to be reasonable.

[Gun Manufacturers]

-incel keith olbermann 5/6/2023
Jesus what a fucking dumbass.

Either my brain is melting or his is.

My money is on him. He seems to post some seriously stupid takes on Twitter.

[Bahrimontagn]

The gun violence problem in America is a reflection of the mayhem America has caused across the world for the past 50 years. You reap what you sow.

Annnnd....?

Was this supposed to be some kind of gotcha?

Basically Americans kinda brought it upon themselves. Therefore I don't care.

[Page]

Reminder: The only way the disarmament of the American people could actually happen is via said disarmament being enforced by the most violent gang on planet Earth - U.S. law enforcement.

If that makes sense to you, how about you ask the Mexican cartels to take away everybody's drugs, and ask the Taliban and the Ayatollah to make Islam illegal.

[Saiwana]

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ing-eroded

What do people think of the prospect that Australia's gun control is actually weakening and might be undone entirely in due time? Will John Howard live to see his efforts and legislative legacy ruined in the long run or is this more likely for after he's passed away?

The long story short is that to get around the stricter gun laws, people in Australia increasingly join gun clubs, which in turn donate money from revenues to gun lobbies, which are increasingly emboldened and are able to slowly but surely grind away at Australia's gun laws so they're increasingly loosened, if successful- before we know it, these pesky laws will be gone.

[Bahrimontagn]

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/25/how-australias-global-gold-standard-on-gun-control-is-being-eroded

What do people think of the prospect that Australia's gun control is actually weakening and might be undone entirely in due time? Will John Howard live to see his efforts and legislative legacy ruined in the long run or is this more likely for after he's passed away?

The long story short is that to get around the stricter gun laws, people in Australia increasingly join gun clubs, which in turn donate money from revenues to gun lobbies, which are increasingly emboldened and are able to slowly but surely grind away at Australia's gun laws so they're increasingly loosened.

Based Aussie gun owners

[Washington Resistance Army]

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/25/how-australias-global-gold-standard-on-gun-control-is-being-eroded

What do people think of the prospect that Australia's gun control is actually weakening and might be undone entirely in due time? Will John Howard live to see his efforts and legislative legacy ruined in the long run or is this more likely for after he's passed away?

The long story short is that to get around the stricter gun laws, people in Australia increasingly join gun clubs, which in turn donate money from revenues to gun lobbies, which are increasingly emboldened and are able to slowly but surely grind away at Australia's gun laws so they're increasingly loosened.

Not like it'll matter even if the Australian NFA is entirely repealed. It had no real impact on anything.

[Grinning Dragon]

Oh vermont...
States Attack Private Shooting Ranges as ‘Antigovernment Paramilitary Training Camps’
Context...

The small town of Pawlet, Vermont – population 1,386 – has been feuding with Daniel Banyai for years over two shooting ranges he built on the 30-acre property he’s owned since 2013.

Neighbors complained about the noise and said Banyai and his friends are super scary. Town officials said Banyai built structures on his land without applying for any zoning permits.

In 2021 Banyai told the Associated Press his property, which he calls Slate Ridge, is a “safe and environmentally friendly place for people to discharge their firearms.”

None of that mattered to Pawlet town officials. After their initial zoning efforts failed, they sued Banyai in Vermont’s Environmental Court, which ordered him to remove the unpermitted structures and earthen berms within 135 days. Banyai ignored the ruling, and in February the Environmental Court held Banyai in contempt of court. He has been racking up civil fines at the rate of $200 per day ever since.

“Respondent has demonstrated a willfulness, perhaps even an enthusiasm, for disregarding the Town’s Bylaws, this Court’s Orders, and the authority of the Judiciary,” Vermont Environmental Court Judge Thomas Durkin said in his order.

Then of course, govts doing what govts do and limit freedom because they are authoritarian cunts.

This week, Vermont’s Gov. Phil Scott – a Republican – signed the bill into law.

§ 4071. PARAMILITARY TRAINING PROHIBITED

(a) A person shall not:

(1) teach, train, or demonstrate to any other person the use, application, or making of a firearm, explosive, or incendiary device capable of causing injury or death, or techniques capable of causing injury or death to persons, if the person knows or reasonably should know that the teaching, training, or demonstrating is intended to be used in or in furtherance of a civil disorder; or

(2) assemble with one or more other persons for the purpose of practicing or being taught, trained, or instructed in the use, application, or making of a firearm, explosive, or incendiary device capable of causing injury or death, or in techniques capable of causing injury or death to persons, if the person knows or reasonably should know that the practicing, teaching, training, or instruction is intended to be used in or in furtherance of a civil disorder.

Dumb!

[Vrbo]

Oh vermont...
States Attack Private Shooting Ranges as ‘Antigovernment Paramilitary Training Camps’
Context...

The small town of Pawlet, Vermont – population 1,386 – has been feuding with Daniel Banyai for years over two shooting ranges he built on the 30-acre property he’s owned since 2013.

Neighbors complained about the noise and said Banyai and his friends are super scary. Town officials said Banyai built structures on his land without applying for any zoning permits.

In 2021 Banyai told the Associated Press his property, which he calls Slate Ridge, is a “safe and environmentally friendly place for people to discharge their firearms.”

None of that mattered to Pawlet town officials. After their initial zoning efforts failed, they sued Banyai in Vermont’s Environmental Court, which ordered him to remove the unpermitted structures and earthen berms within 135 days. Banyai ignored the ruling, and in February the Environmental Court held Banyai in contempt of court. He has been racking up civil fines at the rate of $200 per day ever since.

“Respondent has demonstrated a willfulness, perhaps even an enthusiasm, for disregarding the Town’s Bylaws, this Court’s Orders, and the authority of the Judiciary,” Vermont Environmental Court Judge Thomas Durkin said in his order.

Then of course, govts doing what govts do and limit freedom because they are authoritarian cunts.

This week, Vermont’s Gov. Phil Scott – a Republican – signed the bill into law.

§ 4071. PARAMILITARY TRAINING PROHIBITED

(a) A person shall not:

(1) teach, train, or demonstrate to any other person the use, application, or making of a firearm, explosive, or incendiary device capable of causing injury or death, or techniques capable of causing injury or death to persons, if the person knows or reasonably should know that the teaching, training, or demonstrating is intended to be used in or in furtherance of a civil disorder; or

(2) assemble with one or more other persons for the purpose of practicing or being taught, trained, or instructed in the use, application, or making of a firearm, explosive, or incendiary device capable of causing injury or death, or in techniques capable of causing injury or death to persons, if the person knows or reasonably should know that the practicing, teaching, training, or instruction is intended to be used in or in furtherance of a civil disorder.

Dumb!

Lol we had the same problem a long while ago but they kept our gun ranges even though some residents didn't like it. Was a whole thing where people posted signs out on their lawn.

Read a gun control article at my college which was like, I was so terrified holding this, all I could think about were the children... and I was like, alright Lumen. If you're shaking you should probably not hold a gun.

[Stellar Colonies]

Oh vermont...
States Attack Private Shooting Ranges as ‘Antigovernment Paramilitary Training Camps’
Context...


Then of course, govts doing what govts do and limit freedom because they are authoritarian cunts.


Dumb!

Lol we had the same problem a long while ago but they kept our gun ranges even though some residents didn't like it. Was a whole thing where people posted signs out on their lawn.

Read a gun control article at my college which was like, I was so terrified holding this, all I could think about were the children... and I was like, alright Lumen. If you're shaking you should probably not hold a gun.

One of my relatives is more into guns than I am.

I was nervous around guns until he took me out to go shooting, but he knew his stuff and properly drilled me on the safety of handling it. Once I got the hang of it and got accustomed to the noise, plinking targets quickly become extremely fun. Of course, it was not quite the same since it was air-powered, but still.

A tool which deserves proper care and respect to be safe, for sure, but not blood-curdling fear if it's in the right hands.

[Vrbo]

Lol we had the same problem a long while ago but they kept our gun ranges even though some residents didn't like it. Was a whole thing where people posted signs out on their lawn.

Read a gun control article at my college which was like, I was so terrified holding this, all I could think about were the children... and I was like, alright Lumen. If you're shaking you should probably not hold a gun.

One of my relatives is more into guns than I am...not real ones, just air-powered.

I was nervous around guns until he took me out to go shooting, but he knew his stuff and properly drilled me on the safety of handling it. Once I got the hang of it and got accustomed to the noise, plinking targets quickly become extremely fun.

A tool which deserves proper care and respect to be safe, for sure, but not blood-curdling fear if it's in the right hands.

Yeah, this girl in the article was given an AR-15 and then 2 .40 pistols on her first try with guns by her papa. She ended up coming out of it saying she actually liked it though it's entirely shitty of her father to give her a .40 as her second gun since she was struggling with the AR-15.

Guns deserve care and respect, and need to be treated properly with safety as an important principle.

[Kernen]

Oh vermont...
States Attack Private Shooting Ranges as ‘Antigovernment Paramilitary Training Camps’
Context...

The small town of Pawlet, Vermont – population 1,386 – has been feuding with Daniel Banyai for years over two shooting ranges he built on the 30-acre property he’s owned since 2013.

Neighbors complained about the noise and said Banyai and his friends are super scary. Town officials said Banyai built structures on his land without applying for any zoning permits.

In 2021 Banyai told the Associated Press his property, which he calls Slate Ridge, is a “safe and environmentally friendly place for people to discharge their firearms.”

None of that mattered to Pawlet town officials. After their initial zoning efforts failed, they sued Banyai in Vermont’s Environmental Court, which ordered him to remove the unpermitted structures and earthen berms within 135 days. Banyai ignored the ruling, and in February the Environmental Court held Banyai in contempt of court. He has been racking up civil fines at the rate of $200 per day ever since.

“Respondent has demonstrated a willfulness, perhaps even an enthusiasm, for disregarding the Town’s Bylaws, this Court’s Orders, and the authority of the Judiciary,” Vermont Environmental Court Judge Thomas Durkin said in his order.

Then of course, govts doing what govts do and limit freedom because they are authoritarian cunts.

This week, Vermont’s Gov. Phil Scott – a Republican – signed the bill into law.

§ 4071. PARAMILITARY TRAINING PROHIBITED

(a) A person shall not:

(1) teach, train, or demonstrate to any other person the use, application, or making of a firearm, explosive, or incendiary device capable of causing injury or death, or techniques capable of causing injury or death to persons, if the person knows or reasonably should know that the teaching, training, or demonstrating is intended to be used in or in furtherance of a civil disorder; or

(2) assemble with one or more other persons for the purpose of practicing or being taught, trained, or instructed in the use, application, or making of a firearm, explosive, or incendiary device capable of causing injury or death, or in techniques capable of causing injury or death to persons, if the person knows or reasonably should know that the practicing, teaching, training, or instruction is intended to be used in or in furtherance of a civil disorder.

Dumb!

Thats unenforceable in the extreme. Either the knowledge is so clear as to otherwise fall under aiding and abetting or it's not going to meet criminal standards anyway.

[American Legionaries]

Oh vermont...
States Attack Private Shooting Ranges as ‘Antigovernment Paramilitary Training Camps’
Context...


Then of course, govts doing what govts do and limit freedom because they are authoritarian cunts.


Dumb!

Thats unenforceable in the extreme. Either the knowledge is so clear as to otherwise fall under aiding and abetting or it's not going to meet criminal standards anyway.

But Kernen, aiding and abetting laws are old and stale. They need a fresh new way to intimidate shooters.

[Grinning Dragon]

Thats unenforceable in the extreme. Either the knowledge is so clear as to otherwise fall under aiding and abetting or it's not going to meet criminal standards anyway.

But Kernen, aiding and abetting laws are old and stale. They need a fresh new way to intimidate shooters.

They also need to make up their damn minds.
The often espoused, "you need to be trained to own" then turn around and go, "NO NO NO NO, that's not what we want, insurrectionist"
So I guess they don't want people to be knowledgeable in the use of firearms and to be "well regulated"

[Ostroeuropa]

Mandatory minimum third party only gun insurance.

Those are the only words I have to say today. (Well alright. Legalize flash hiders too.)

[American Legionaries]

Mandatory minimum third party only gun insurance.

Those are the only words I have to say today. (Well alright. Legalize flash hiders too.)

Liability insurance is an absurd proposition.

[Ostroeuropa]

Mandatory minimum third party only gun insurance.

Those are the only words I have to say today. (Well alright. Legalize flash hiders too.)

Liability insurance is an absurd proposition.

How so?