Gun Control 2023 (V) - ATF Shenanigans, States Fight Back!

[Kernen]

I care about Lumen's friend. These types of things should not happen.

The problem is, Lumen doesn't really care about Lumen's friend, or Lumen would educate himself on what would actually prevent things like that from happening, instead of using his friend as a prop to advance his personal agenda when that agenda won't actually prevent things like what happened to his friend.

And I think that's the difference here.

Very good post. I think it's pretty callous to not care about victims of crimes like these, but having basic human empathy doesn't mean endorsing nonsensical gun control proposals that won't do anything to fix American society.

Huh. Guess that makes me pretty callous, I cant be arsed about this alleged friend.

[Haganham]

I refuse to believe lumen has a friend until I am given a link to a peer reviewed paper on the matter published in a reputable journal.

[Alkmaaria]

All law abiding reasons aside, I personally want another just to twist the AG's into a frenzy even further. Brings a tear to my eye.

Ah yes lets make the liberals cry. Your lot is despicable and I wish there was law your guns could be grabbed and smashed in front of you or gun shops could have all their merchandise broken.

How would they be able to smash an Assault Rifle 15 when they're as heavy as 10 or so boxes you might be moving?

[Greater Cesnica]

Ah yes lets make the liberals cry. Your lot is despicable and I wish there was law your guns could be grabbed and smashed in front of you or gun shops could have all their merchandise broken.

How would they be able to smash an Assault Rifle 15 when they're as heavy as 10 or so boxes you might be moving?

Wouldn't the thing that goes up get in the way? Also you gotta be careful with the 50 caliber bullets!

[Caurus]

How would they be able to smash an Assault Rifle 15 when they're as heavy as 10 or so boxes you might be moving?

Wouldn't the thing that goes up get in the way? Also you gotta be careful with the 50 caliber bullets!

And be careful that you don't hit the sniper button while you're at it. You don't want the gun to go off and hit someone a mile away!

[Paddy O Fernature]

What's utterly pathetic is you keep parading this "friend" around like we're supposed to care about him (if he even exists), and using that emotional appeal to try to dictate to us how how to be.

You want his name and location? Why would I tell you that?

I wouldn’t make that up and if he had ended up wheelchair bound your lot would have gone oh well it’s a necessary trade off for my stupid guns.

Someone, somewhere at sometime is going to seriously get hurt in an automobile accident through no fault of their own. Doesn't mean I'm going to stop enjoying a lazy Sunday drive over it.

[Tarsonis]

All law abiding reasons aside, I personally want another just to twist the AG's into a frenzy even further. Brings a tear to my eye.

Ah yes lets make the liberals cry. Your lot is despicable and I wish there was law your guns could be grabbed and smashed in front of you or gun shops could have all their merchandise broken.

You really have no arguments beyond throwing a temper tantrum, do you

[Adamede]

Here's a reminder that it won't stop with just the guns either.

good. Acess to weapon attachments needs to be restrictive or else criminals will just take advantage of how legally available everything is.

Yah no.

[Grinning Dragon]

good. Acess to weapon attachments needs to be restrictive or else criminals will just take advantage of how legally available everything is.

Yah no.

There is also the fact that such things are constitutionally protected under the 2nd Amendment.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Yah no.

There is also the fact that such things are constitutionally protected under the 2nd Amendment.

Clearly, we are just slaves who have been bought out by the NRA who are infatuated with our stupid pieces of metal and want nothing more then to shred children with our assault style weapons of war because we refuse to tell the Supreme Court and the Constitution to go pound sand every chance we get. Clearly the blood is on our hands.

[Kernen]

There is also the fact that such things are constitutionally protected under the 2nd Amendment.

Clearly, we are just slaves who have been bought out by the NRA who are infatuated with our stupid pieces of metal and want nothing more then to shred children with our assault style weapons of war because we refuse to tell the Supreme Court and the Constitution to go pound sand every chance we get.

Funny the guns I own have yet to shred the child that lives in constant close proximity to them.

Perhaps San Lumen feels the need to call CPS to save my son's life. He could be shredded at any moment, despite no risk to date.

[Tarsonis]

Clearly, we are just slaves who have been bought out by the NRA who are infatuated with our stupid pieces of metal and want nothing more then to shred children with our assault style weapons of war because we refuse to tell the Supreme Court and the Constitution to go pound sand every chance we get.

Funny the guns I own have yet to shred the child that lives in constant close proximity to them.

Perhaps San Lumen feels the need to call CPS to save my son's life. He could be shredded at any moment, despite no risk to date.

Also if you raise your guns right, they won't be stupid. My guns are honor students.

[Bahrimontagn]

The gun violence problem in America is a reflection of the mayhem America has caused across the world for the past 50 years. You reap what you sow.

[Juansonia]

The gun violence problem in America is a reflection of the mayhem America has caused across the world for the past 50 years. You reap what you sow.

Not the past fifty, it goes back farther than that. Puerto Rico is still a colony.

[Tarsonis]

The gun violence problem in America is a reflection of the mayhem America has caused across the world for the past 50 years. You reap what you sow.

K

[Paddy O Fernature]

The gun violence problem in America is a reflection of the mayhem America has caused across the world for the past 50 years. You reap what you sow.

Annnnd....?

Was this supposed to be some kind of gotcha?

[Juansonia]

The gun violence problem in America is a reflection of the mayhem America has caused across the world for the past 50 years. You reap what you sow.

Annnnd....?

Was this supposed to be some kind of gotcha?

It wasn't a gotcha, it was a point about how mass shootings aren't a gun problem, but an American problem.

"America is diseased. Rotten to the core." - Senator Steven Armstrong, Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance

[Tarsonis]

Annnnd....?

Was this supposed to be some kind of gotcha?

It wasn't a gotcha, it was a point about how mass shootings aren't a gun problem, but an American problem.

"America is diseased. Rotten to the core." - Senator Steven Armstrong, Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance

So it was an incorrect point. Gotcha

[Grinning Dragon]

Clearly, we are just slaves who have been bought out by the NRA who are infatuated with our stupid pieces of metal and want nothing more then to shred children with our assault style weapons of war because we refuse to tell the Supreme Court and the Constitution to go pound sand every chance we get.

Funny the guns I own have yet to shred the child that lives in constant close proximity to them.

Perhaps San Lumen feels the need to call CPS to save my son's life. He could be shredded at any moment, despite no risk to date.

Good god don't give them ideas. However, I wouldn't be surprised if some handwringing hoplophobe has done that very thing, cause lil timmy was out handling firearms with dear ol dad or ma and ya know kids aren't suppose to be around firearms, know about firearms, like firearms and heaven forbid daring to market firearms to kids, because ya know youth shooting sports is a myth or something.

[Washington Resistance Army]

A decision in Fraser vs ATF was handed down, a Judge struck down federal law restricting handgun sales to those under 21, pointing out this is a restriction placed on no other constitutional right. Worth noting this only applies to Virginia and the other areas in that district right now, and a higher court will likely try to screw with the ruling, but it could always go to SCOTUS if that happens. Either way it's the right call, making it legal to arbitrarily restrict rights based on age even when you're already an adult is a pretty bad slippery slope and I'm shocked it hasn't been abused more.

Quite amusingly the ATF actually tried to argue the restrictions shouldn't be lifted because those under 21 could just pay someone else to buy them a handgun. You know, a straw purchase, which is explicitly illegal federally. Really lets you know how much the ATF cares about the law.

[Alkmaaria]

It wasn't a gotcha, it was a point about how mass shootings aren't a gun problem, but an American problem.

"America is diseased. Rotten to the core." - Senator Steven Armstrong, Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance

So it was an incorrect point. Gotcha

The point that shootings are an American problem is actually somewhat true. Obviously, America isn't the only country to have mass shootings but there are much more here.

However, saying that it's because "America bad" is foolish and unhelpful.

And taking away guns won't fix it either.

[Tarsonis]

A decision in Fraser vs ATF was handed down, a Judge struck down federal law restricting handgun sales to those under 21, pointing out this is a restriction placed on no other constitutional right. Worth noting this only applies to Virginia and the other areas in that district right now, and a higher court will likely try to screw with the ruling, but it could always go to SCOTUS if that happens. Either way it's the right call, making it legal to arbitrarily restrict rights based on age even when you're already an adult is a pretty bad slippery slope and I'm shocked it hasn't been abused more.

Quite amusingly the ATF actually tried to argue the restrictions shouldn't be lifted because those under 21 could just pay someone else to buy them a handgun. You know, a straw purchase, which is explicitly illegal federally. Really lets you know how much the ATF cares about the law.

That $1.2b annual budget would be of more use set aflame on the congressional mall.

[Thermodolia]

I don't care what you think. People with your attitude sicken me. You want no gun laws at all and whoever is injured or worse you don't care as long you have your stupid worthless pieces of metal. Call me a gun grabber but your viewpoints are disgusting.

Your agenda entails using state power against tens, if not hundreds of millions of peaceable people. It entails the wholesale slaughter of many tens or hundreds of thousands. The anti-gun crusade is anti-human and grotesque. Spare me your faux moral outrage.

Especially given SL’s thoughts on COVID restrictions and how he doesn’t care if grandma dies he wants to watch theater

[Grinning Dragon]

A decision in Fraser vs ATF was handed down, a Judge struck down federal law restricting handgun sales to those under 21, pointing out this is a restriction placed on no other constitutional right. Worth noting this only applies to Virginia and the other areas in that district right now, and a higher court will likely try to screw with the ruling, but it could always go to SCOTUS if that happens. Either way it's the right call, making it legal to arbitrarily restrict rights based on age even when you're already an adult is a pretty bad slippery slope and I'm shocked it hasn't been abused more.

Quite amusingly the ATF actually tried to argue the restrictions shouldn't be lifted because those under 21 could just pay someone else to buy them a handgun. You know, a straw purchase, which is explicitly illegal federally. Really lets you know how much the ATF cares about the law.

batfe(arbf) care about the law? Pfft, they just arbitrarily make them up and claim chevron.
As to the unconstitutional handgun age restriction, good to read about a judge realizing that the 2nd Amendment right enumeration is the same enumeration when applied to the other rights.

Now as to buying a handgun for an under 21 person, not all purchases would be straw purchases say for instance a parent buying their kid/relative a handgun as a gift and each state has their handgun possession laws for those under 21, in Louisiana:

RS 14:95.8

§95.8. Illegal possession of a handgun by a juvenile

A. It is unlawful for any person who has not attained the age of eighteen years knowingly to possess any handgun on his person. Any person possessing any handgun in violation of this Section commits the offense of illegal possession of a handgun by a juvenile.

B.(1) On a first conviction, the offender shall be fined not more than one hundred dollars and imprisoned for not less than ninety days and not more than six months.

(2) On a second conviction, the offender shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars and imprisoned with or without hard labor for not more than two years.

(3) On a third or subsequent conviction, the offender shall be fined not more than one thousand dollars and imprisoned at hard labor for not more than five years.

(4) A juvenile adjudicated delinquent under this Section, having been previously found guilty or adjudicated delinquent for any crime of violence as defined by R.S. 14:2(B), or attempt or conspiracy to commit any such offense, shall upon a first or subsequent conviction be fined not less than five hundred dollars and not more than one thousand dollars and shall be imprisoned with or without hard labor for not less than six months and not more than five years. At least ninety days shall be served without benefit of probation, parole, or suspension of sentence.

C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to any person under the age of eighteen years who is:

(1) Attending a hunter's safety course or a firearms safety course.

(2) Engaging in practice in the use of a firearm or target shooting at an established range.

(3) Hunting or trapping pursuant to a valid license issued to him pursuant to the laws of this state.

(4) Traveling to or from any activity described in Paragraph (1), (2), or (3) of this Subsection while in possession of an unloaded gun.

(5) On real property with the permission of his parent or legal guardian and with the permission of the owner or lessee of the property.

(6) At such person's residence and who, with the permission of such person's parent or legal guardian, possesses a handgun.

(7) Possessing a handgun with the written permission of such person's parent or legal guardian; provided that such person carries on his person a copy of such written permission.

D. For the purposes of this Section "handgun" means a firearm as defined in R.S. 14:37.2, provided however, that the barrel length shall not exceed twelve inches.

Acts 1999, No. 1218, §1; Acts 2019, No. 104, §2.

With that said, the judge here also pointed this out, that relying on a 3rd party to acquire a firearm still infringes on that right.

These are pretty good from judge payne:

Commonsense and logic tell us that, unless one is a maker of guns, the right to “keep”/have a gun necessarily means that one must purchase it, steal it, be given it by another, or find one that another has lost. That, of course, includes a handgun which was the subject of “arms” in Heller. Thus, given its ordinary, commonsense, and logical meaning the right to “keep” arms (the right to “have”) of necessity includes the right, inter alia, to purchase arms.

Not simply protecting the heartland of the preserved right, the Second Amendment protects the environs surrounding it to prevent any encroachment on the core protections. Thus, by virtue of the word “infringe”, the Second Amendment’s protective textual embrace includes the conduct necessary to exercise that right (“to keep and bear”) and that, as explained above, includes the right to purchase arms so that one can keep and bear them.

[Thermodolia]

Unlimited and unrestrained? Based.

Nothing based about it. That's what some here want and its honestly scary. Japan doesn't have a problem of mass shootings on regular basis and neither does the United Kingdom. The fact is mass shootings went up since the assault weapon ban expired but that's a fact you and others refuse to acknowledge.

Japan and the UK are both islands. And furthermore Japan is a hilariously fucking racist nation. Japan is literally a mono culture. Also they have mass stabbings.

So Lumen are you advocating that the US become a monoculture that heavily restricts immigration?