Gun Control 2023 (V) - ATF Shenanigans, States Fight Back!

[Arval Va]

What did you think would happen, Lumen?

He doesn't tend to. Your views here are idealistic and often mistsken. SL's takes are maliciously ignorant.

I'll take it. From what I know, the Icelandic model of gun control is doing a lot better than what the US has got in place, but it'll obviously not fix the problem all on its own, with the clusterfuck this country is in. But it's clear that we have a fundamental disagreement about the nature of human rights, and I don't intend to push it any further.

From what I can see, Lumen's just very bad at argumentation.

I don't care what you think. People with your attitude sicken me.

You realise those are two contradictory statements, right?

[Paddy O Fernature]

Ah yes lets make the liberals cry. Your lot is despicable and I wish there was law your guns could be grabbed and smashed in front of you or gun shops could have all their merchandise broken.

I do love making anti-gunners cry.

Your wishes at this point have devolved to baseless frustrations. It's about as petty as me wanting to smash up those theatres you love going to so much.

I mean..jokes aside, urban renewal isn't a bad thing if done correctly.

[Paddy O Fernature]

That wouldn't comport with the law and therefore would be overturned in court. You wanting something is not the sole hurdle to legality, buckaroo.

And at the next mass shooting involving a machine gun you'll give your thoughts and prayers and its a sacrifice we me must make in the name of freedom.

Considering that stats were posted earlier where legally owned automatics have accounted for 3 crimes since the 30's, the point you are trying to make here is tragically coming up short.

[Kernen]

And at the next mass shooting involving a machine gun you'll give your thoughts and prayers and its a sacrifice we me must make in the name of freedom.

Mass shootings don't change the law. In this case amendments change the law.

Maybe this got lost in the flurry, SL, but you seem to believe that mass shootings mean we can ignore the law. We can't. If you want to change the law, you need to amend the Constitution.

[Greater Cesnica]

And at the next mass shooting involving a machine gun you'll give your thoughts and prayers and its a sacrifice we me must make in the name of freedom.

Considering that stats were posted earlier where legally owned automatics have accounted for 3 crimes since the 30's, the point you are trying to make here is tragically coming up short.

Wasn't one of those "crimes" a self-defense shooting in the 80s? Or are these 3 different incidents?

[Ors Might]

All law abiding reasons aside, I personally want another just to twist the AG's into a frenzy even further. Brings a tear to my eye.

Ah yes lets make the liberals cry. Your lot is despicable and I wish there was law your guns could be grabbed and smashed in front of you or gun shops could have all their merchandise broken.

Lumen, do not do this. It's a very good way to get yourself shot and/or sued.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Considering that stats were posted earlier where legally owned automatics have accounted for 3 crimes since the 30's, the point you are trying to make here is tragically coming up short.

Wasn't one of those "crimes" a self-defense shooting in the 80s? Or are these 3 different incidents?

I'll have to go back and check, but I believe they were three separate incidents resulting in a single death each.

[Greater Cesnica]

Ah yes lets make the liberals cry. Your lot is despicable and I wish there was law your guns could be grabbed and smashed in front of you or gun shops could have all their merchandise broken.

Lumen, do not do this. It's a very good way to get yourself shot and/or sued.

The idea of Lumen walking into a gun store intent on doing harm to its property and merchandise is hilarious through.

[Kernen]

Ah yes lets make the liberals cry. Your lot is despicable and I wish there was law your guns could be grabbed and smashed in front of you or gun shops could have all their merchandise broken.

Lumen, do not do this. It's a very good way to get yourself shot and/or sued.

I invite San Lumen to visit me in NH. I can offer room and board on me and give him the chance to shoot a gun with me and experience it. We can talk about it over a beer.

And if he wants to smash my guns to pieces, I promise not to shoot him. He can, however, expect an itemized list and a copy of the complaint I'll file if I am not made whole. NH lacks punitive damages, but his actions may justify enhancements. Maybe I can get a new gun out of the experience.

[American Legionaries]

Lumen, do not do this. It's a very good way to get yourself shot and/or sued.

The idea of Lumen walking into a gun store intent on doing harm to its property and merchandise is hilarious through.

The whole line of bullshit really is just the epitome of impotent rage.

[Ors Might]

Lumen, do not do this. It's a very good way to get yourself shot and/or sued.

The idea of Lumen walking into a gun store intent on doing harm to its property and merchandise is hilarious through.

I'm genuinely worried that he might try to take someone's gun from them and get into a violent altercation with them. The number of times he's expressed this fantasy is concerning.

[Greater Cesnica]

The idea of Lumen walking into a gun store intent on doing harm to its property and merchandise is hilarious through.

I'm genuinely worried that he might try to take someone's gun from them and get into a violent altercation with them. The number of times he's expressed this fantasy is concerning.

Well, if one fucks around...

[Paddy O Fernature]

The idea of Lumen walking into a gun store intent on doing harm to its property and merchandise is hilarious through.

I'm genuinely worried that he might try to take someone's gun from them and get into a violent altercation with them. The number of times he's expressed this fantasy is concerning.

Clearly he needs to rethink the lessons learned the last time people with a similar mindset like his tried to do just that.....

[Greater Cesnica]

I'm genuinely worried that he might try to take someone's gun from them and get into a violent altercation with them. The number of times he's expressed this fantasy is concerning.

Clearly he needs to rethink the lessons learned the last time people with a similar mindset like his tried to do just that.....

Honestly this is the first time I've noticed that pencil barrel. Interesting.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Well ACB got illanoy's written essays on why they think their unconstitutional awb and standard capacity mag ban is constitutional and boy it's a doozy.

First the state argues that the plaintiffs have not shown that its indisputably clear that they will prevail under the two-step test developed in Bruen.
Well here is the first problem, in Bruen the two step approach is now defunct and no longer a valid argument.

The next problem for illanoy is that they are stuck on stupid in arguing that so-called "assault weapons" are not in common use for self defense, and that these weapons are derived from military grade weapons which renders them uniquely suitable as "weapons of war" but not commonly used or suitable for personal self-defense.
So here they are still trying to play word games with Heller, in Heller and in Bruen; the usage is dangerous AND unusual, illanoy is playing stupid by interjecting the word "or"
They also missed it with the "not common use in self defense" where the supreme court has ruled numerous times the usage is "for all lawful purposes, such as self defense".
The key phrase here is "all lawful purposes"

The state went on to show such bans were done in the 1920's, another attempt at playing stupid when the now standard is at the the time of founding.
The state is also arguing that the supreme court shouldn't get involved while it's still working through the 7th circus.

Just to point out that the supreme court rarely gets involved in interlocutory cases and likes to deal with final judgements. IMO, I think ACB needs to nip this in the bud and enjoin the state with a injunction as it seems the state here is clearly thumbing their noses at Heller and Bruen decisions.

When Illinois goes around the judge that initially granted the injunction in spite of procedure, the 7th circuit gets this so wrong, and basically spits in the face of the Supreme Court (by deliberately misinterpreting the SC's ruling in Bruen), the Supreme Court should step in and grant the injunction. Especially since Illinois is planning on going after the people that took full advantage of "Freedom Week 2.0" (FFS, not even California did that when they had their own "Freedom Week")..

[Paddy O Fernature]

Clearly he needs to rethink the lessons learned the last time people with a similar mindset like his tried to do just that.....

Honestly this is the first time I've noticed that pencil barrel. Interesting.

Lack of front sight post gets me as well.

[American Legionaries]

Honestly this is the first time I've noticed that pencil barrel. Interesting.

Lack of front sight post gets me as well.

Optic ready rifle is optic ready...

[Kernen]

Lack of front sight post gets me as well.

Optic ready rifle is optic ready...

WINDAGE DOWN THE RAILS

[Paddy O Fernature]

Lack of front sight post gets me as well.

Optic ready rifle is optic ready...

I'm just old fashioned and place my trust in a set of quality irons.

[Kernen]

Optic ready rifle is optic ready...

I'm just old fashioned and place my trust in a set of quality irons.

Fudd

[Greater Cesnica]

Optic ready rifle is optic ready...

I'm just old fashioned and place my trust in a set of quality irons.

Backups are always nice to have, yeah.

[Grinning Dragon]

Well ACB got illanoy's written essays on why they think their unconstitutional awb and standard capacity mag ban is constitutional and boy it's a doozy.

First the state argues that the plaintiffs have not shown that its indisputably clear that they will prevail under the two-step test developed in Bruen.
Well here is the first problem, in Bruen the two step approach is now defunct and no longer a valid argument.

The next problem for illanoy is that they are stuck on stupid in arguing that so-called "assault weapons" are not in common use for self defense, and that these weapons are derived from military grade weapons which renders them uniquely suitable as "weapons of war" but not commonly used or suitable for personal self-defense.
So here they are still trying to play word games with Heller, in Heller and in Bruen; the usage is dangerous AND unusual, illanoy is playing stupid by interjecting the word "or"
They also missed it with the "not common use in self defense" where the supreme court has ruled numerous times the usage is "for all lawful purposes, such as self defense".
The key phrase here is "all lawful purposes"

The state went on to show such bans were done in the 1920's, another attempt at playing stupid when the now standard is at the the time of founding.
The state is also arguing that the supreme court shouldn't get involved while it's still working through the 7th circus.

Just to point out that the supreme court rarely gets involved in interlocutory cases and likes to deal with final judgements. IMO, I think ACB needs to nip this in the bud and enjoin the state with a injunction as it seems the state here is clearly thumbing their noses at Heller and Bruen decisions.

When Illinois goes around the judge that initially granted the injunction in spite of procedure, the 7th circuit gets this so wrong, and basically spits in the face of the Supreme Court (by deliberately misinterpreting the SC's ruling in Bruen), the Supreme Court should step in and grant the injunction. Especially since Illinois is planning on going after the people that took full advantage of "Freedom Week 2.0" (FFS, not even California did that when they had their own "Freedom Week")..

Yeah, the state violated fed rule#8 by going to their go to anti gun judge instead of first hitting up McGlynn, and that 7th circus judge is so full of himself, proudly boasting his two judgements for issuing the stay against McGlynn's injunction, the two very rulings that the supreme court laughed at and said nah bro.
As to the state going after those who bought firearms during freedom week, I do wonder if that will be a concern in front of ACB?

[American Legionaries]

Optic ready rifle is optic ready...

I'm just old fashioned and place my trust in a set of quality irons.

I ran irons for ages, but my wife finally got me glass for my primary AR for Christmas. Still has a front sight post though, just no rear irons

[Gun Manufacturers]

I think you need a new record, seems the one you are playing is scratched.

I don't care what you think. People with your attitude sicken me. You want no gun laws at all and whoever is injured or worse you don't care as long you have your stupid worthless pieces of metal. Call me a gun grabber but your viewpoints are disgusting.

Some people here feel the same way about your arguments. Appeals to emotion over several topics (firearms and housing in NYC being 2 recent topics), and when someone tries to debate you honestly with facts, you tend to get extremely hostile and lash out, refusing to look at any evidence contrary to your opinion.

[Paddy O Fernature]

I'm just old fashioned and place my trust in a set of quality irons.

Fudd

I...um... have no counter to this, other then I really don't want it to be true.

*goes back to barrel swabbing my Hawken for the 100th time that I've never shot*

I'm just old fashioned and place my trust in a set of quality irons.

I ran irons for ages, but my wife finally got me glass for my primary AR for Christmas. Still has a front sight post though, just no rear irons

Jealous. All my wife got me for Christmas was a new cotton robe.