Gun Control 2023 (V) - ATF Shenanigans, States Fight Back!

[Juansonia]

My "side"? Good heavens, man. As for the "organization that's been caught manipulating the numbers[,]" you can blame Google. It was the first result I got.

Google is just a search engine, it's the user's duty to evaluate the credibility of each result's information.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Ah, my apologies. How many dead children is too many?

I’ve not killed a single kid so I don’t see why I should be punished over it.

And the truth, shall set you free!

[Paddy O Fernature]

My "side"? Good heavens, man. As for the "organization that's been caught manipulating the numbers[,]" you can blame Google. It was the first result I got.

Google is just a search engine, it's the user's duty to evaluate the credibility of each result's information.

But if everyone on the antigun side did that, they would cease to have an argument.

[Ryemarch]

I’ve not killed a single kid so I don’t see why I should be punished over it.

I've not driven on a road in Montana or killed a member of Al-Qaeda, but I see how both of those benefit the US.

[Paddy O Fernature]

I’ve not killed a single kid so I don’t see why I should be punished over it.

I've not driven on a road in Montana or killed a member of Al-Qaeda, but I see how both of those benefit the US.

So based on your logic, we should take your vehicle away because someone in Alaska committed vehicular manslaughter with a stolen vehicle.

[Galloism]

I’ve not killed a single kid so I don’t see why I should be punished over it.

I've not driven on a road in Montana or killed a member of Al-Qaeda, but I see how both of those benefit the US.

Roads are a good example to apply to this situation. We know that roads give us more freedom - freedom of travel, much further, faster, and easier, than traveling overland.

We also know they have a cost. Tens of thousands of lives.

Now we could quite easily (and by easily, i mean 'legislatively') ban all roads and tear them up, and that would save tens of thousands of lives in car crashes. But we also know it would severely harm our freedom of travel.

So what do we do?

[Urkennalaid]

You can keep saying "appeal to emotion" when talking about dead children, I don't care. You can say how GVA is biased all you want, you can cry about how every source on mass shootings is biased and wrong, I literally do not care anymore. I will support gun reform, and I don't care how much you cry about your rights being restricted.

Also, mass shootings in European countries did stop once gun reform was made. Mass shootings is a uniquely American problem nowadays because EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IMPLEMENTED REFORMS BUT AMERICA REFUSES TO DO SO. Also, comparing cars and guns is always just a funny thing cause it's not even remotely comparable. Vehicles weren't made with the purpose to kill, and vehicles in AMerica have MORE REGULATIONS THAN GUNS DO.

[Washington Resistance Army]

You can keep saying "appeal to emotion" when talking about dead children, I don't care. You can say how GVA is biased all you want, you can cry about how every source on mass shootings is biased and wrong, I literally do not care anymore. I will support gun reform, and I don't care how much you cry about your rights being restricted.

Also, mass shootings in European countries did stop once gun reform was made.

England has had 3 mass shootings in the past 2 years.

[Paddy O Fernature]

You can keep saying "appeal to emotion" when talking about dead children, I don't care. You can say how GVA is biased all you want, you can cry about how every source on mass shootings is biased and wrong, I literally do not care anymore. I will support gun reform, and I don't care how much you cry about your rights being restricted.

Pointing out that your opinion is literally based on a flat out lie isn't "crying" just because you are big mad over being wrong, so.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, mass shootings in European countries did stop once gun reform was made. Mass shootings is a uniquely American problem nowadays because EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IMPLEMENTED REFORMS BUT AMERICA REFUSES TO DO SO. Also, comparing cars and guns is always just a funny thing cause it's not even remotely comparable. Vehicles weren't made with the purpose to kill, and vehicles in AMerica have MORE REGULATIONS THAN GUNS DO.

Cool lie bro.

Feel free to prove me wrong with an actual credible source any time you wish. Until then, I'm going to keep calling you a liar every time you try and lie to our faces.

[Urkennalaid]

You can keep saying "appeal to emotion" when talking about dead children, I don't care. You can say how GVA is biased all you want, you can cry about how every source on mass shootings is biased and wrong, I literally do not care anymore. I will support gun reform, and I don't care how much you cry about your rights being restricted.

Also, mass shootings in European countries did stop once gun reform was made.

England has had 3 mass shootings in the past 2 years.

...3 MASS SHOOTINGS??? IN THE PAST 2 YEARS? AND YOU'RE USING THIS TO PROVE THAT GUN REFORM DOESN'T WORK?

WE HAD 647 MASS SHOOTINGS LAST YEAR, AND 192 THIS YEAR! You literally unironically proved my point that gun reform works, fucking thank you. You tried to make a pro-gun argument but didn't realize how much the rate of mass shootings go down when guns are regulated. Holy shit I can't believe you unironically tried posting that as an "own" against my point.

[Paddy O Fernature]

England has had 3 mass shootings in the past 2 years.

...3 MASS SHOOTINGS??? IN THE PAST 2 YEARS? AND YOU'RE USING THIS TO PROVE THAT GUN REFORM DOESN'T WORK?

WE HAD 647 MASS SHOOTINGS LAST YEAR, AND 192 THIS YEAR! You literally unironically proved my point that gun reform works, fucking thank you. You tried to make a pro-gun argument but didn't realize how much the rate of mass shootings go down when guns are regulated. Holy shit I can't believe you unironically tried posting that as an "own" against my point.

Liar.

[Urkennalaid]

You can keep saying "appeal to emotion" when talking about dead children, I don't care. You can say how GVA is biased all you want, you can cry about how every source on mass shootings is biased and wrong, I literally do not care anymore. I will support gun reform, and I don't care how much you cry about your rights being restricted.

Pointing out that your opinion is literally based on a flat out lie isn't "crying" just because you are big mad over being wrong, so.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, mass shootings in European countries did stop once gun reform was made. Mass shootings is a uniquely American problem nowadays because EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IMPLEMENTED REFORMS BUT AMERICA REFUSES TO DO SO. Also, comparing cars and guns is always just a funny thing cause it's not even remotely comparable. Vehicles weren't made with the purpose to kill, and vehicles in AMerica have MORE REGULATIONS THAN GUNS DO.

Cool lie bro.

Feel free to prove me wrong with an actual credible source any time you wish. Until then, I'm going to keep calling you a liar every time you try and lie to our faces.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/mass-shootings-2023.html
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/mass-shootings-in-u-s-on-a-record-pace-in-2023-so-far
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/how-many-mass-shootings-in-2023-b2322490.html
https://abcnews.go.com/US/116-people-died-gun-violence-day-us-year/story?id=97382759

[Paddy O Fernature]

Pointing out that your opinion is literally based on a flat out lie isn't "crying" just because you are big mad over being wrong, so.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



Cool lie bro.

Feel free to prove me wrong with an actual credible source any time you wish. Until then, I'm going to keep calling you a liar every time you try and lie to our faces.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/mass-shootings-2023.html
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/mass-shootings-in-u-s-on-a-record-pace-in-2023-so-far
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/how-many-mass-shootings-in-2023-b2322490.html
https://abcnews.go.com/US/116-people-died-gun-violence-day-us-year/story?id=97382759

Stopped reading once I saw that you once again are quoting GVA and articles linked to it's proven biased study. Not even going to waste my time.

lol.

[Urkennalaid]

Remember when I asked what people would do to fix the gun violence in this country and all the people who were against any gun control either made a sarcastic comment or said how the answer is unsolvable?

[Urkennalaid]

https://www.nytimes.com/article/mass-shootings-2023.html
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/mass-shootings-in-u-s-on-a-record-pace-in-2023-so-far
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/how-many-mass-shootings-in-2023-b2322490.html
https://abcnews.go.com/US/116-people-died-gun-violence-day-us-year/story?id=97382759

Stopped reading once I saw that you once again are quoting GVA and articles linked to it's proven biased study. Not even going to waste my time.

lol.

Cool that you didn't read anything else. Keep calling me a liar and crying even though I posted proof and you have none.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Stopped reading once I saw that you once again are quoting GVA and articles linked to it's proven biased study. Not even going to waste my time.

lol.

Cool that you didn't read anything else. Keep calling me a liar and crying even though I posted proof and you have none.

Buddy, I can see plain as day that you are using GVA and articles linking to it just in the link description without having to click it. Why the fuck would I waste my time digging through the rest of those links when you already are using a debunked source for at least half of your sources?

[Urkennalaid]

Cool that you didn't read anything else. Keep calling me a liar and crying even though I posted proof and you have none.

Buddy, I can see plain as day that you are using GVA and articles linking to it just in the link description without having to click it. Why the fuck would I waste my time digging through the rest of those links when you already are using a debunked source for at least half of your sources?

Half my sources? It's one website you claim is biased. You just know you're wrong and are pissed I have links to the sources so you refuse to look at the other ones. Keep trying though.

[Washington Resistance Army]

England has had 3 mass shootings in the past 2 years.

...3 MASS SHOOTINGS??? IN THE PAST 2 YEARS? AND YOU'RE USING THIS TO PROVE THAT GUN REFORM DOESN'T WORK?

WE HAD 647 MASS SHOOTINGS LAST YEAR, AND 192 THIS YEAR! You literally unironically proved my point that gun reform works, fucking thank you. You tried to make a pro-gun argument but didn't realize how much the rate of mass shootings go down when guns are regulated. Holy shit I can't believe you unironically tried posting that as an "own" against my point.

You said mass shootings stopped, they did not. In fact from a quick glance at wikipedia mass shootings in Britain are quite a bit more common nowadays than they were back in the 70s and 80s.

[Urkennalaid]

...3 MASS SHOOTINGS??? IN THE PAST 2 YEARS? AND YOU'RE USING THIS TO PROVE THAT GUN REFORM DOESN'T WORK?

WE HAD 647 MASS SHOOTINGS LAST YEAR, AND 192 THIS YEAR! You literally unironically proved my point that gun reform works, fucking thank you. You tried to make a pro-gun argument but didn't realize how much the rate of mass shootings go down when guns are regulated. Holy shit I can't believe you unironically tried posting that as an "own" against my point.

You said mass shootings stopped, they did not. In fact from a quick glance at wikipedia mass shootings in Britain are quite a bit more common nowadays than they were back in the 70s and 80s.

Ok, but again, you proved my point that the rate in which mass shootings happened lowered. We're literally comparing this to the rate mass shootings happen in America.

Once again, it always turns into a semantics based argument.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Ok, but again, you proved my point that the rate in which mass shootings happened lowered.

That wasn't your point, you're shifting the goalposts. You said, and I quote "Also, mass shootings in European countries did stop once gun reform was made." This is an objectively false statement, mass shootings still happen in pretty much all of these countries, and have seemingly been becoming more common since the 2010s.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Buddy, I can see plain as day that you are using GVA and articles linking to it just in the link description without having to click it. Why the fuck would I waste my time digging through the rest of those links when you already are using a debunked source for at least half of your sources?

Half my sources? It's one website you claim is biased. You just know you're wrong and are pissed I have links to the sources so you refuse to look at the other ones. Keep trying though.

1: NYT Article uses the GVA study as a source....
2: PBS article sources Everytown For Gun Safety, which has used GVA numbers in the past as a source for it's own studies.
3: Is GVA...
4: Literally lists GVA as a source...
5: Literally lists GVA as a source...

So yes I was wrong.

It's not half, it's literally every fucking source you posted was all based off GVA's bullshit data.

Find a new source liar.

[Urkennalaid]

Ok, but again, you proved my point that the rate in which mass shootings happened lowered.

That wasn't your point, you're shifting the goalposts. You said, and I quote "Also, mass shootings in European countries did stop once gun reform was made." This is an objectively false statement, mass shootings still happen in pretty much all of these countries, and have seemingly been becoming more common since the 2010s.

I literally misphrased it. Regardless, the amount of mass shootings HAS lowered in these countries, which is still the whole point. It's not moving the goalposts if the rate at which these countries have mass shootings drastically lowered after gun reform.

[Urkennalaid]

Half my sources? It's one website you claim is biased. You just know you're wrong and are pissed I have links to the sources so you refuse to look at the other ones. Keep trying though.

1: NYT Article uses the GVA study as a source....
2: PBS article sources Everytown For Gun Safety, which has used GVA numbers in the past as a source for it's own studies.
3: Is GVA...
4: Literally lists GVA as a source...
5: Literally lists GVA as a source...

So yes I was wrong.

It's not half, it's literally every fucking source you posted was all based off GVA's bullshit data.

Find a new source liar.

I'm curious, what is your source on how many mass shootings have happened? Genuinely, I want to see where your sources are.

[Paddy O Fernature]

That wasn't your point, you're shifting the goalposts. You said, and I quote "Also, mass shootings in European countries did stop once gun reform was made." This is an objectively false statement, mass shootings still happen in pretty much all of these countries, and have seemingly been becoming more common since the 2010s.

I literally misphrased it. Regardless, the amount of mass shootings HAS lowered in these countries, which is still the whole point. It's not moving the goalposts if the rate at which these countries have mass shootings drastically lowered after gun reform.

Have they? Data seems to suggest that they are roughly occurring the at the same rate. Take Australia for example in that regard.

[Paddy O Fernature]

1: NYT Article uses the GVA study as a source....
2: PBS article sources Everytown For Gun Safety, which has used GVA numbers in the past as a source for it's own studies.
3: Is GVA...
4: Literally lists GVA as a source...
5: Literally lists GVA as a source...

So yes I was wrong.

It's not half, it's literally every fucking source you posted was all based off GVA's bullshit data.

Find a new source liar.

I'm curious, what is your source on how many mass shootings have happened? Genuinely, I want to see where your sources are.

As stated and linked earlier, the FBI. Who is also nice enough to break down homicides by state according to what type of weapon was used as well.