Should Stalin be taught by schools to be a hero?

[Free Algerstonia]

joseph stalin is a hero. he was a double agent that successfully infiltrated the bolshevik moment to destroy it, and he succeeded through the great purge that was a disguised obliteration of the communist party and global communism which was also destroyed by the socialism in one country policy, without stalin's contributions to saving the world from communism the soviet union might still exist and FDR's communist ambitions would have been fully realized without the moderating influence of the business plot

Seriously, it is very important to educate people on history because if you don't learn you repeat it. But going so far as to say he is a hero, not so much. He killed more people than Hitler did, the only reason that he isn't put at the same level as Hitler was that he was part of the "Big Three". You can teach about him but like Hitler, you can't glorify him in education. They are both very evil men and Stalin should be treated as such, you can have your own opinion about him, but the facts stand. History is important but teaching good things about men who killed millions, not so much. Only the facts should be portrayed, nothing else, saying he was either extremely evil or a hero is indoctrination for both.

everything i said was factual, i believe joseph stalin should be glorified because to glorify him is saying simple facts, would you say that the kims don't deserve to be glorified despite destroying communism in north korea? i say no. kim jong un is the second greatest current leader behind president trump, and portraying him as a hero is completely factual and unopinionated

[HISPIDA]

Seriously, it is very important to educate people on history because if you don't learn you repeat it. But going so far as to say he is a hero, not so much. He killed more people than Hitler did, the only reason that he isn't put at the same level as Hitler was that he was part of the "Big Three". You can teach about him but like Hitler, you can't glorify him in education. They are both very evil men and Stalin should be treated as such, you can have your own opinion about him, but the facts stand. History is important but teaching good things about men who killed millions, not so much. Only the facts should be portrayed, nothing else, saying he was either extremely evil or a hero is indoctrination for both.

everything i said was factual, i believe joseph stalin should be glorified because to glorify him is saying simple facts, would you say that the kims don't deserve to be glorified despite destroying communism in north korea? i say no. kim jong un is the second greatest current leader behind president trump, and portraying him as a hero is completely factual and unopinionated

common alger W

[Bewaffnete Krafte]

I'm NOT saying what we should do is completely ignore Stalin's contribution to the war effort (WW2)
I'm saying that people need to learn about the negatives as well, like the Holodomor and countless other mistreatments of his own people.
Thanks for taking the time to read this

Why the Holodomor Should be taught:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/commen ... l_schools/

Other Atrocities committed by Joseph Stalin:
https://history.howstuffworks.com/histo ... stalin.htm

Most of these never happened. Holodomor was a natural famine and there is no evidence at all that was deliberate. If you do believe it was deliberate, you must admit that the Kazakhs who suffered more in the famine were more oppressed than the Ukrainians who received disproportionate aid.

Most people who say the Holodomor was a genocide (or at least exasperated by negligence) (including me) usually don't stop at Ukrainians being abused by Russians. The USSR abused many more minorities than just Ukrainians.

[Oateria]

Most people who say the Holodomor was a genocide (or at least exasperated by negligence) (including me) usually don't stop at Ukrainians being abused by Russians. The USSR abused many more minorities than just Ukrainians.

Exhibit A: The Crimean Tatars.

[HISPIDA]

Most of these never happened. Holodomor was a natural famine and there is no evidence at all that was deliberate. If you do believe it was deliberate, you must admit that the Kazakhs who suffered more in the famine were more oppressed than the Ukrainians who received disproportionate aid.

Most people who say the Holodomor was a genocide (or at least exasperated by negligence) (including me) usually don't stop at Ukrainians being abused by Russians. The USSR abused many more minorities than just Ukrainians.

it's more a naming problem than anything tbh

putting aside the question of "was it a genocide," "the soviet union committed genocide in the 1930s against multiple ethnicities" and "the holodomor" are two different things; the latter was adopted by ukrainians to specifically refer to the 1932-3 famine in ukraine, which is why in general i think a better term for the entire famine is the famine of 1932-33 or the rarer and a tad more hyperbolic "great soviet famine"

[Punished UMN]

Seriously, it is very important to educate people on history because if you don't learn you repeat it. But going so far as to say he is a hero, not so much. He killed more people than Hitler did, the only reason that he isn't put at the same level as Hitler was that he was part of the "Big Three". You can teach about him but like Hitler, you can't glorify him in education. They are both very evil men and Stalin should be treated as such, you can have your own opinion about him, but the facts stand. History is important but teaching good things about men who killed millions, not so much. Only the facts should be portrayed, nothing else, saying he was either extremely evil or a hero is indoctrination for both.

everything i said was factual, i believe joseph stalin should be glorified because to glorify him is saying simple facts, would you say that the kims don't deserve to be glorified despite destroying communism in north korea? i say no. kim jong un is the second greatest current leader behind president trump, and portraying him as a hero is completely factual and unopinionated

Reverse-engineered Neocon-to-Trotskyite pipeline.

[Punished UMN]

I'm NOT saying what we should do is completely ignore Stalin's contribution to the war effort (WW2)
I'm saying that people need to learn about the negatives as well, like the Holodomor and countless other mistreatments of his own people.
Thanks for taking the time to read this

Why the Holodomor Should be taught:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/commen ... l_schools/

Other Atrocities committed by Joseph Stalin:
https://history.howstuffworks.com/histo ... stalin.htm

Most of these never happened. Holodomor was a natural famine and there is no evidence at all that was deliberate. If you do believe it was deliberate, you must admit that the Kazakhs who suffered more in the famine were more oppressed than the Ukrainians who received disproportionate aid.

I don't believe the famine was genocidal, but describing it as natural is simply false. Both the Ukrainian and Kazakh famines were caused by Soviet agricultural policy, through a combination of negligence, being uninformed, and simply not caring about the consequences beyond achieving the goals of the policy (collectivization and de-nomadization).

[ThePlague]

No one in history is a hero as far as I know, so...no.

[Portzania]

joseph stalin is a hero. he was a double agent that successfully infiltrated the bolshevik moment to destroy it, and he succeeded through the great purge that was a disguised obliteration of the communist party and global communism which was also destroyed by the socialism in one country policy, without stalin's contributions to saving the world from communism the soviet union might still exist and FDR's communist ambitions would have been fully realized without the moderating influence of the business plot

so fvcking trve

[Beric]

Most of these never happened. Holodomor was a natural famine and there is no evidence at all that was deliberate. If you do believe it was deliberate, you must admit that the Kazakhs who suffered more in the famine were more oppressed than the Ukrainians who received disproportionate aid.

"The Holodomor was a man-made famine in Soviet Ukraine from 1932 to 1933 that killed millions of Ukrainians. The Holodomor was part of the wider Soviet famine of 1932–1933 which affected the major grain-producing areas of the Soviet Union."

At the time of the Holodomor, the Soviet government and the Communist Party denied that a famine was taking place and refused any outside relief efforts. A succession of Soviet governments maintained formal denial that the Holodomor had occurred. In Ukraine, it was impossible to speak publicly, discuss openly, or teach about the Holodomor until the late 1980s. Information about the Famine was only available in the West, mostly from eyewitness testimonies of refugees who had survived the event and escaped from the Soviet Union after World War II.

Link
Source:Holocaust and Genocide Studies University of MN

Your turn to substantiate your claim. How about you source and show where you are getting the information that it was a natural famine with an actual citation?


Furthermore in regards to the thread in general. Of course stalin shouldn't be taught as a hero. he was an awful human being that led to the death of millions. Urging Russians to fight does not negate that.

[Hahqsthqstan]

I'm NOT saying what we should do is completely ignore Stalin's contribution to the war effort (WW2)
I'm saying that people need to learn about the negatives as well, like the Holodomor and countless other mistreatments of his own people.
Thanks for taking the time to read this

Why the Holodomor Should be taught:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/commen ... l_schools/

Other Atrocities committed by Joseph Stalin:
https://history.howstuffworks.com/histo ... stalin.htm

https://www.reddit.com/r/communism

[Portzania]

I'm NOT saying what we should do is completely ignore Stalin's contribution to the war effort (WW2)
I'm saying that people need to learn about the negatives as well, like the Holodomor and countless other mistreatments of his own people.
Thanks for taking the time to read this

Why the Holodomor Should be taught:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/commen ... l_schools/

Other Atrocities committed by Joseph Stalin:
https://history.howstuffworks.com/histo ... stalin.htm

https://www.reddit.com/r/communism

r/communism is definitely the best source for everything communist related

[The Sale Corsair Republic]

No.
He should be taught in schools to show World War Two was a repeat of WW1/standard power struggle not a struggle of “the good guys” against all evil.

[HISPIDA]

Most of these never happened. Holodomor was a natural famine and there is no evidence at all that was deliberate. If you do believe it was deliberate, you must admit that the Kazakhs who suffered more in the famine were more oppressed than the Ukrainians who received disproportionate aid.

I don't believe the famine was genocidal, but describing it as natural is simply false. Both the Ukrainian and Kazakh famines were caused by Soviet agricultural policy, through a combination of negligence, being uninformed, and simply not caring about the consequences beyond achieving the goals of the policy (collectivization and de-nomadization).

i mean it's absolutely undeniable that the famine was in part caused by natural phenomena, mostly insect and crop disease infestations; the "big three" were rust, smut, and locusts, alongside a pretty big eastern europe-wide drought

soviet agricultural policies undoubtedly exacerbated the famine (primarily the continued exportation of grain) and corruption in local leadership really stifled efforts to provide aid to affected populations (especially in kazakhstan!), but the famine itself was caused by a myriad of reasons including natural phenomena alongside inefficient farming techniques and equipment, kulaks hoarding grain stockpiles and livestock, and of course consequences of collectivization, government policy, government inefficiency, and simple negligence

[Hahqsthqstan]

I don't believe the famine was genocidal, but describing it as natural is simply false. Both the Ukrainian and Kazakh famines were caused by Soviet agricultural policy, through a combination of negligence, being uninformed, and simply not caring about the consequences beyond achieving the goals of the policy (collectivization and de-nomadization).

i mean it's absolutely undeniable that the famine was in part caused by natural phenomena, mostly insect and crop disease infestations; the "big three" were rust, smut, and locusts, alongside a pretty big eastern europe-wide drought

soviet agricultural policies undoubtedly exacerbated the famine (primarily the continued exportation of grain) and corruption in local leadership really stifled efforts to provide aid to affected populations (especially in kazakhstan!), but the famine itself was caused by a myriad of reasons including natural phenomena alongside inefficient farming techniques and equipment, kulaks hoarding grain stockpiles and livestock, and of course consequences of collectivization, government policy, government inefficiency, and simple negligence

Typical comment for an anti-commie

[Punished UMN]

I don't believe the famine was genocidal, but describing it as natural is simply false. Both the Ukrainian and Kazakh famines were caused by Soviet agricultural policy, through a combination of negligence, being uninformed, and simply not caring about the consequences beyond achieving the goals of the policy (collectivization and de-nomadization).

i mean it's absolutely undeniable that the famine was in part caused by natural phenomena, mostly insect and crop disease infestations; the "big three" were rust, smut, and locusts, alongside a pretty big eastern europe-wide drought

soviet agricultural policies undoubtedly exacerbated the famine (primarily the continued exportation of grain) and corruption in local leadership really stifled efforts to provide aid to affected populations (especially in kazakhstan!), but the famine itself was caused by a myriad of reasons including natural phenomena alongside inefficient farming techniques and equipment, kulaks hoarding grain stockpiles and livestock, and of course consequences of collectivization, government policy, government inefficiency, and simple negligence

Natural causes were an exacerbating factor, and there may indeed have been a famine due to them, but this famine would not have taken millions of lives if not for poor government organization.

[Durius]

i mean it's absolutely undeniable that the famine was in part caused by natural phenomena, mostly insect and crop disease infestations; the "big three" were rust, smut, and locusts, alongside a pretty big eastern europe-wide drought

soviet agricultural policies undoubtedly exacerbated the famine (primarily the continued exportation of grain) and corruption in local leadership really stifled efforts to provide aid to affected populations (especially in kazakhstan!), but the famine itself was caused by a myriad of reasons including natural phenomena alongside inefficient farming techniques and equipment, kulaks hoarding grain stockpiles and livestock, and of course consequences of collectivization, government policy, government inefficiency, and simple negligence

Typical comment for an anti-commie

As opposed to your typical commie argumentless comeback?

[Bewaffnete Krafte]

i mean it's absolutely undeniable that the famine was in part caused by natural phenomena, mostly insect and crop disease infestations; the "big three" were rust, smut, and locusts, alongside a pretty big eastern europe-wide drought

soviet agricultural policies undoubtedly exacerbated the famine (primarily the continued exportation of grain) and corruption in local leadership really stifled efforts to provide aid to affected populations (especially in kazakhstan!), but the famine itself was caused by a myriad of reasons including natural phenomena alongside inefficient farming techniques and equipment, kulaks hoarding grain stockpiles and livestock, and of course consequences of collectivization, government policy, government inefficiency, and simple negligence

Typical comment for an anti-commie

I don't know how to tell you this, but Hispida is actually Communist. Also, are you saying that the Holodomor wasn't caused chiefly by manmade factors?

[HISPIDA]

i mean it's absolutely undeniable that the famine was in part caused by natural phenomena, mostly insect and crop disease infestations; the "big three" were rust, smut, and locusts, alongside a pretty big eastern europe-wide drought

soviet agricultural policies undoubtedly exacerbated the famine (primarily the continued exportation of grain) and corruption in local leadership really stifled efforts to provide aid to affected populations (especially in kazakhstan!), but the famine itself was caused by a myriad of reasons including natural phenomena alongside inefficient farming techniques and equipment, kulaks hoarding grain stockpiles and livestock, and of course consequences of collectivization, government policy, government inefficiency, and simple negligence

Typical comment for an anti-commie

i'm a fucking maoist lmao

[Galactic Powers]

i mean it's absolutely undeniable that the famine was in part caused by natural phenomena, mostly insect and crop disease infestations; the "big three" were rust, smut, and locusts, alongside a pretty big eastern europe-wide drought

soviet agricultural policies undoubtedly exacerbated the famine (primarily the continued exportation of grain) and corruption in local leadership really stifled efforts to provide aid to affected populations (especially in kazakhstan!), but the famine itself was caused by a myriad of reasons including natural phenomena alongside inefficient farming techniques and equipment, kulaks hoarding grain stockpiles and livestock, and of course consequences of collectivization, government policy, government inefficiency, and simple negligence

Natural causes were an exacerbating factor, and there may indeed have been a famine due to them, but this famine would not have taken millions of lives if not for poor government organization.

So then is it a genocide then? Or just horrible incompetence and shitty governance? The malicious intent is what matters. Either way it doesn’t look good for Stalin and communism, but one is a lot worse than the other.

[Eden Prime]

All good and evil should be taught in schools especially the nation one currently resides on. I'm patriotic as they come here in the US and as a native Texan and LEO I love what I am. Even so I find it deplorable that people want to swipe evil away especially those who feel the are the "good guys". The people should decide how they would respond and feel about each piece of history that has happen in their nation and those around them and make their own judgement of how they see ones nation. Sadly we live in a day and age were global media and blind guided governments wish to make one think and only that thinking and if they do not comply they would be wiped out from their social standing.

[Bewaffnete Krafte]

Typical comment for an anti-commie

i'm a fucking maoist lmao

You are? But you admit that Stalinism's policies caused massive famines and killed millions, intentionally or not?

[Wallenburg]

Stalin was a fucking monstrous human being, no.

[Punished UMN]

Natural causes were an exacerbating factor, and there may indeed have been a famine due to them, but this famine would not have taken millions of lives if not for poor government organization.

So then is it a genocide then? Or just horrible incompetence and shitty governance? The malicious intent is what matters. Either way it doesn’t look good for Stalin and communism, but one is a lot worse than the other.

There's not really any good evidence of deliberate intent and certainly not of genocidal intent. The closest you could probably argue is that denomadization in Central Asia consituted a genocide. The Stalin-era USSR committed numerous genocides against other ethnic groups though outside of the famine.
In terms of not looking good for communism, it's important to remember that the USSR existed for longer as an anti-Stalinist entity after Stalin's death than it did under Stalin's leadership.

[Picairn]

Typical comment for an anti-commie

i'm a fucking maoist lmao

Hahqsthqstan probably is even more tankie like denying the Holodomor ever happened and stuff.