Zoning should be done well and HOAs should be abolished.
That sounds like fun. I grew up with useful gardens, but I would love flowers once I have a garden. I'd fight social pressure for them.
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by Loeje » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:12 pm
by Cannot think of a name » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:15 pm
Neutraligon wrote:Cannot think of a name wrote:See: Sacramento. Initially they made the already flood prone area worse and hotter since all of the shit they built was absorbing and radiating the heat. They had to do a hard countersteer to correct which included a robust effort to replant a bunch of trees (at one point its nickname was 'city of trees'...if it's still considered a nickname if no one uses it...)
There is also some interesting technology that can help with that. There are road surfaces that intentionally let melt water through to the ground below as an example. Of course there is also the rooftop garden.
by Farnhamia » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:16 pm
Loeje wrote:Drongonia wrote:If anything HOAs should be abolished. I'd hate to live under one.
Zoning should be done well and HOAs should be abolished.Neutraligon wrote:True. Originally she was trying for an English garden, now she is more into various grasses and other native plants.
That sounds like fun. I grew up with useful gardens, but I would love flowers once I have a garden. I'd fight social pressure for them.
by Neutraligon » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:17 pm
Farnhamia wrote:Loeje wrote:Zoning should be done well and HOAs should be abolished.
That sounds like fun. I grew up with useful gardens, but I would love flowers once I have a garden. I'd fight social pressure for them.
Gardens attract ... bugs (ick). I told them that growing plants would turn out badly but did anyone listen? No! Now we have lower back pain and all that.
Concrete is best. You can paint flowers on it.
by Cannot think of a name » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:20 pm
by Farnhamia » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:21 pm
by Loeje » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:22 pm
Farnhamia wrote:Loeje wrote:Zoning should be done well and HOAs should be abolished.
That sounds like fun. I grew up with useful gardens, but I would love flowers once I have a garden. I'd fight social pressure for them.
Gardens attract ... bugs (ick). I told them that growing plants would turn out badly but did anyone listen? No! Now we have lower back pain and all that.
Concrete is best. You can paint flowers on it.
by Cannot think of a name » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:24 pm
by Faradova » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:28 pm
by Picairn » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:35 pm
Drongonia wrote:There are environmental concerns both ways.
Overdevelopment can massively increase air, light and noise pollution in any given area. Not to mention the loss of greenfields and biodiversity by replacing six back and front yards with concrete piles for a large building(s).
There are also climate-related issues that go along with this. For example, in flood-prone areas, removing greenfields has the effect of massively reducing the natural drainage provided by grass/soil, meaning that floodwater effectively has nowhere to go. Property developers' collective solution for this seems to be to redirect it all to already at-capacity stormwater systems.
You can have suburbs without car-centric transportation. Nothing is stopping you as a city from building good public transport connections out to your suburbs via bus or light rail, or allowing small shopping/schooling areas within lighter-density property zones to discourage long travel. The latter is distinctly an American issue.
by The Two Jerseys » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:35 pm
Neutraligon wrote:Cannot think of a name wrote:See: Sacramento. Initially they made the already flood prone area worse and hotter since all of the shit they built was absorbing and radiating the heat. They had to do a hard countersteer to correct which included a robust effort to replant a bunch of trees (at one point its nickname was 'city of trees'...if it's still considered a nickname if no one uses it...)
There is also some interesting technology that can help with that. There are road surfaces that intentionally let melt water through to the ground below as an example. Of course there is also the rooftop garden.
by Drongonia » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:39 pm
Picairn wrote:Considering the terrible water-guzzling American lawn is the predominant form of gardens in American suburbs, replacing them with concrete apartments are actually going to be an improvement by reducing suburban sprawl. Also this assumes apartments can't have gardens or parks built in their complexes, which is absurd.
Picairn wrote:Exclusionary single-family zones encourage suburban sprawl, so even if you can build public transportation there (which only touches the tip of the iceberg) to the cities there's still the issue of sprawling to think about. Dense cities emit less emission per capita and consume less energy per capita than suburbs by the virtue of having everything concentrated in an area which reduces sprawl and the length of transportation infrastructure.
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by Picairn » Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:02 pm
Drongonia wrote:No it doesn't assume anything of the sort - of course you could put those within an apartment complex. Property developers don't, though.
Also you're just trading one bad thing for the other here. Increased greenfields and biodiversity get traded out for less car usage but a more cramped and less pleasant style of living with worse air pollution as although people will drive smaller distances, Americans (since you keep talking about them) will still own cars and have them parked in said complexes.
Suburban sprawl is not a bad thing if you change zoning rules so shops and the like are allowed within zone, as we were discussing earlier. You don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater here.
by Drongonia » Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:45 pm
Picairn wrote:"Property developers don't" Is that a general trend or are you talking isolated incidents?
Picairn wrote:So basically you agree with me on encouraging further mixed-use development zones, even if you disagree on their extent?
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by Neutraligon » Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:56 pm
Drongonia wrote:Picairn wrote:"Property developers don't" Is that a general trend or are you talking isolated incidents?
It's a trend worldwide. Unless you want the government to try build up-to-standard housing (lol) you're stuck with for-profit developers. Nothing screams "loss of potential profits" to a property developer than greenfields as they'd get more money out of the section/area by putting more dwellings there. Source: I worked with them for years.Picairn wrote:So basically you agree with me on encouraging further mixed-use development zones, even if you disagree on their extent?
Mixed-use in terms of the facilities the zones can provide, rather than "mixed-use" in terms of having normal housing next to apartment blocks. If there's an area full of apartment blocks, fine, don't build single-family dwellings there. If there's an area full of single-family dwellings, don't bowl said dwellings and drop apartment blocks there. That's not difficult to understand.
Also, your use of McMansion is funny. Not all single-house sections contain McMansions, you know.
by Drongonia » Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:59 pm
Neutraligon wrote:Duplexes or low rise apartments (no taller then 2-3 stories) in single family areas?
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by Cannot think of a name » Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:02 pm
Neutraligon wrote:Drongonia wrote:It's a trend worldwide. Unless you want the government to try build up-to-standard housing (lol) you're stuck with for-profit developers. Nothing screams "loss of potential profits" to a property developer than greenfields as they'd get more money out of the section/area by putting more dwellings there. Source: I worked with them for years.
Mixed-use in terms of the facilities the zones can provide, rather than "mixed-use" in terms of having normal housing next to apartment blocks. If there's an area full of apartment blocks, fine, don't build single-family dwellings there. If there's an area full of single-family dwellings, don't bowl said dwellings and drop apartment blocks there. That's not difficult to understand.
Also, your use of McMansion is funny. Not all single-house sections contain McMansions, you know.
Duplexes or low rise apartments (no taller then 2-3 stories) in single family areas?
by Picairn » Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:51 pm
Drongonia wrote:Mixed-use in terms of the facilities the zones can provide, rather than "mixed-use" in terms of having normal housing next to apartment blocks. If there's an area full of apartment blocks, fine, don't build single-family dwellings there. If there's an area full of single-family dwellings, don't bowl said dwellings and drop apartment blocks there. That's not difficult to understand.
Also, your use of McMansion is funny. Not all single-house sections contain McMansions, you know.
by Cannot think of a name » Tue Feb 07, 2023 3:32 pm
Picairn wrote:Drongonia wrote:Mixed-use in terms of the facilities the zones can provide, rather than "mixed-use" in terms of having normal housing next to apartment blocks. If there's an area full of apartment blocks, fine, don't build single-family dwellings there. If there's an area full of single-family dwellings, don't bowl said dwellings and drop apartment blocks there. That's not difficult to understand.
Also, your use of McMansion is funny. Not all single-house sections contain McMansions, you know.
I'm fine with more duplexes and triplexes there to increase density while preserving the "character" of the neighborhood.
The whole reason McMansion was coined as a cliché of suburban housing is due to its ubiquity. Regardless you shouldn't be fixated on it too much.
by The Black Forrest » Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:04 pm
Cannot think of a name wrote:Picairn wrote:I'm fine with more duplexes and triplexes there to increase density while preserving the "character" of the neighborhood.
The whole reason McMansion was coined as a cliché of suburban housing is due to its ubiquity. Regardless you shouldn't be fixated on it too much.
McMansions were a specific thing, I grew up in one. Well, the last half of childhood anyway. This house in my neighborhood had fucking columns. And those houses had nothing on the garish shit beyond this waterfall that high school students would pour detergent in to make suds because...small town. It was a particularly garish style of oversized suburban home.
Also we couldn't afford it and it finally did in my parent's marriage, but that's a whole other thing.
But if you were going to draw a picture of everything that was wrong with 80s yuppie excess, you'd probably end up drawing a picture of my dad.
by Cannot think of a name » Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:11 pm
The Black Forrest wrote:Cannot think of a name wrote:McMansions were a specific thing, I grew up in one. Well, the last half of childhood anyway. This house in my neighborhood had fucking columns. And those houses had nothing on the garish shit beyond this waterfall that high school students would pour detergent in to make suds because...small town. It was a particularly garish style of oversized suburban home.
Also we couldn't afford it and it finally did in my parent's marriage, but that's a whole other thing.
But if you were going to draw a picture of everything that was wrong with 80s yuppie excess, you'd probably end up drawing a picture of my dad.
We had those! I remember a couple builds where the column didn’t even touch the overhang. About a 2inch gap.
by Huaren Gongsi state » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:25 pm
by -Astoria- » Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:27 am
Huaren Gongsi state wrote:average malay
I'm just going to assume that you're from malaysia or singapore but either way you ought to go to Indonesia and then see for yourself what improper/non-existent zoning meant: they have housing complexes right next to flour mills and landfills.
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by Huaren Gongsi state » Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:54 pm
-Astoria- wrote:Huaren Gongsi state wrote:average malay
I'm just going to assume that you're from malaysia or singapore but either way you ought to go to Indonesia and then see for yourself what improper/non-existent zoning meant: they have housing complexes right next to flour mills and landfills.
The OP is a Filipino, if I'm not mistaken.
by Dummkopfen » Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:59 pm
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