Transmaxxing

[Rhodevus]

As a trans person, good to know. I did kinda skim the opening, then get stuck on the OP saying that MTF is more viable than FTM

Statistically speaking, I've just seen more biological men being able to "pass" as women than the opposite situation. Surgically speaking, how would it not be more difficult to try to attach male genitalia to a woman's body than to modify male genitalia into the female equivalent on a male's body? Most of the world's plastic surgeons or sex reassignment specialists seem to admit as much, that it is far easier to subtract from or modify than to do any addition to what isn't already there.

1. you see more biologically male people able to pass as female, because many of them don't. Most FTM people just look like biological men. You can and likely have walked by an FTM person without even realizing it. That's much harder to do as MTF.

2. female genitalia are also modified? They use skin grafts from the patient to model the phallus. Phalloplasty is not a new surgical technique.

[Stellar Colonies]

I foresee the development of a r/Transmaxxing to r/Detrans pipeline if it doesn't already exist.

Also, they're probably just shitposting.

[El Lazaro]

I think your lack of sexual partners stems from the fact you spend your free time making posts like this, not because you are not MtF.

Not quite related, but you’re still on the forums?

[Free Algerstonia]

i love you

[Thermodolia]

As a trans person, good to know. I did kinda skim the opening, then get stuck on the OP saying that MTF is more viable than FTM

Statistically speaking, I've just seen more biological men being able to "pass" as women than the opposite situation. Surgically speaking, how would it not be more difficult to try to attach male genitalia to a woman's body than to modify male genitalia into the female equivalent on a male's body? Most of the world's plastic surgeons or sex reassignment specialists seem to admit as much, that it is far easier to subtract from or modify than to do any addition to what isn't already there.

Er no. It’s far easier to go from woman to man because you aren’t fighting against testosterone but using it.

FTM almost always pass as guys just ones that are generally shorter on average.

MTF have generally a harder time attempting to pass because they are working against testosterone

[Free Algerstonia]

i love you

[Kannap]

Are you an unsuccessful man? Tired of having to initiate every social interaction/courtship and getting shot down/rejected at every turn? There are some solutions out there, one of the most radical of which is: why not try becoming a woman? Become what you previously wanted but always fail to get.

An asinine idea, let's see where this goes...

As of late, I've been fascinated by this "transmaxxing" phenomenon that is allegedly going on. Which is more or less, not becoming MtF because of identifying as trans, but specifically as a bid for personal gain and to trade a bad life for what they think will become a better one as the opposite sex. There is a small Reddit of 3,000+ unsuccessful men who're taking it upon themselves to get a sex change, in the belief that they'll find more personal gain/success as a woman than they currently do as a man, if they were born biologically male. They've essentially given up on trying to "man up" and conclude that women have it better and want to be one of them instead.

Ah, so barely anybody is doing this and the ones who are doing this are creeps who are driven by the desire to lie to and manipulate women in an attempt to have a relationship with one?

There is a 73+ page manifesto

God, people need to get some hobbies or a fucking job.

outlining the reasons for why being a woman in today's society is far superior than remaining as a man

Gonna cut you off there, the shallowest dig into news, history, and current events would unearth that being a woman is nowhere near superior to being a man.

To keep it as PG-13 as possible, their reasons for transitioning to MtF being beneficial is as follows:

Love a list, let's see...

1. More beautiful to have a feminine body.

Subjective opinion

2. Access to the trans/lesbian dating pool.

Ah, reaffirming my earlier assessment that these just sound like creepy guys who are willing to lie to/manipulate women just to get a relationship with one.

3. More intense stimulus from physical touch.

Huh?

4. More intense and wider range of emotions and happier on Estrogen.

Estrogen can make one more moody, sure, but women don't have a "more intense and wider range of emotions." Men have been taught by society that they're supposed to suppress some of their emotions, sure, but that doesn't mean women have more emotions. Fuck society, watch a sad movie that makes you cry.

5. Being able to attract cisgender lesbians (if attractive enough).

Ah, reaffirming my earlier assessment that these just sound like creepy guys who are willing to lie to/manipulate women just to get a relationship with one.

6. Being able to attract cisgender men for physical intimacy (if attractive enough).

Ah, reaffirming my earlier assessment that these just sound like creepy guys who are willing to lie to/manipulate women just to get a relationship with one.

That's gay

Ah, reaffirming my earlier assessment that these just sound like creepy guys who are willing to lie to/manipulate women men just to get a relationship with one.

7. Softer skin and less/no acne.

[citation needed]

8. Live longer.

[citation nee- actually, this just sounds like bullshit, forget it]

9. Being able to maybe extract money/resources from men.

Ah, reaffirming my earlier assessment that these just sound like creepy guys who are willing to lie to/manipulate women men just to get a relationship with money from one.

10. No longer driven to do stupid/dangerous things due to testosterone.

Weird to suggest testosterone as a scapegoat for their stupid behavior or decisions rather than owning up to the fact that they did/said something stupid and learning from it.

11. Stop and reverse hair loss.

Hats are cheaper

12. People will treat you better if they believe you're a woman.

Laughably false. But further, it seems weird to suggest people aren't treating them as well as they think they deserve simply because they're men, rather than what I assume is their behavior and actions leading to people not treating them well. I've got a creepy dude coworker at work and most of us don't like him. It's not because he's a dude, it's because he regularly says creepy things to most of us and acts creepy around most of us. Not a good bonus for him that he spends most of the day just walking around, disappearing, or talking to anybody he sees while the rest of us are actually working.

13. Less likely to get killed.

Trans people are four times more likely than cisgender people to be the victims of violent crime.

14. Access to female only spaces.

Ah, reaffirming my earlier assessment that these just sound like creepy guys who are willing to lie to/manipulate women men everyone just to get a relationship with money from one closer to women by accessing women-only spaces.

15. Cheaper car insurance.

Probably the weirdest thought on this list.

Their quote: "Let's face it, if you present as male, there's exactly one personality that will earn you social approval: Chad. Assertive, dominant, successful. Nobody will be impressed by a male that is meek, submissive and struggling. Such males are not considered gender trailblazers; they're just derided as incel NEETs.

This may be the kind of guy they want to be based on social media influencers or whatever, but this statement is far from true in the real world.

Nobody is offering an actual solution to this.

My assumption, from hearing their ideas through this post so far, is that the solution is they need to change how they act, what they say, and how they treat other people. It sounds like they have some genuinely creepy and red flaggy views of women and I'd bet money that's why they have been unsuccessful getting into relationships or maintaining relationships. They very much sound like the "I know what women want" types of guys who quite simply are oblivious to what women want lmao.

but it's possibly the only thing that will actually help you if you're stuck being a shitty male with no prospects."

Gonna be a rude awakening for these guys when they transition to women and continue the weird misogynistic behavior and still not ending up with girlfriends. I suppose the question is: Is being stuck being a shitty female with 'no prospects' better than being a shitty male with 'no prospects'?

In addition, they discourage FtM transition because their conjecture is that this harms fertility and reproduction for our species and makes the world less beautiful, and that the end result is more beneficial if there are more MtF people but fewer FtM people out there.

Huh? Literally huh?

Given the emergence of this recent rabbit hole, what do you make of it?¹ Do you know anyone who's doing this online or in real life?² Do you expect it to remain niche or become a bigger trend in the coming years?³ If it is a cry for help, what could possibly be done to keep men from giving up on being men?⁴ Are some or all of the reasons they give for it being more advantageous as a woman, valid or not?⁵

I suppose I've already picked this apart as I went along, but speed round:

1. It sounds like barely anybody is transitioning with this mindset as their reason and the ones who are doing this are creeps who are driven by the desire to lie to and manipulate women in an attempt to have a relationship with one.

2. I have plenty of trans friends, but none of them are trans because of whatever this nonsense is.

3. I suspect it to become a super big thing, obviously, as humungous as that widespread Tide pods fast food chain that has knocked McDonalds out of the top spot for most successful fast food chain.

4. Feels like there is a lot to unpack here, I'd recommend these guys find a psychologist and a psychiatrist to double team their depression or anxiety or whatever undiagnosed mental illness they have, but that's just my recommendation. I'm not a doctor.

5. That list you gave us just now? Yeah, all of those reasons sound like bullshit and sound like they don't know much about women in the first place.

I'm very much against sex changes in general, but do concede that it seems more viable to do MtF than FtM with our current medical technology/practices. I can't imagine going for something that is too permanent in that there is "no going back" after a certain point once it has been done. I'm very dissatisfied with what is expected of men from women and larger society, but I'm the sort to never give up my body for the world. What is your experience in terms of it being more positive or negative to be the sex/gender that you are?

Don't worry, gender is a human-made social construct that dictates that *checks notes* painting your fingernails is feminine and watching a bunch of buff dudes smash into each other while chasing around a pigskin ball is masculine. It's silly nonsense and realizing that I'm nonbinary was one of the best fucking things I ever figured out about myself, it's up there with figuring out my sexuality or finally getting put on ADHD medication.

[Hammer Britannia]

I think your lack of sexual partners stems from the fact you spend your free time making posts like this, not because you are not MtF.

Not quite related, but you’re still on the forums?

Mostly as other nations, tbh. I still lurk on NSG, but I spend most of my time being really anal about worldbuilding projects nowadays.

[Auzkhia]

This is just Blanchardian typology with extra steps.

Basically Ray Blanchard, a crank psychologist concocted a theory that trans women transition because of one two types. HSTS and AGP, basically we're either gay boys looking to get as much guys as possible or we have a woman fetish. It matches up perfectly with two of the most prevalent transmisogynistic stereotypes of being confused gays or perverted crossdressers.

Though if some Incel decided to transition and take feminizing HRT, it would be especially ironic if they liked it and found out they were a girl, in this twisted hypothetical I supposed transitioning will always fix her

Well most likely we would have a bunch of Blair White disciples on our hands. Though if OP is one of them. Goddess save us all!

[Rhodevus]

-snip-

I loved reading this so much more than the OP.

About some of the points. I don't know anything about the more intense stimulus to physical touch, but the smoother skin bit is definitely true.

that is all. all else is accurate.

though, the cheaper car insurance is totally a flex that I find very amusing

[Stellar Colonies]

One of these days, someone from this crowd is going to make a bad ripoff of Stoicism and call it 'Surakmaxxing'.

[Cookies]

I'm sorry, what actually is this supposed to be?

[Thermodolia]

2. Access to the trans/lesbian dating pool.

Ah, reaffirming my earlier assessment that these just sound like creepy guys who are willing to lie to/manipulate women just to get a relationship with one.

It’s also going to lead to more anti-trans support as a bunch of men trying to become women to get women is going to play right into the “evil trans” talking points

7. Softer skin and less/no acne.

[citation needed]

Ya it’s bunk. My sister got real bad acne and had to go on Accutane.

11. Stop and reverse hair loss.

Hats are cheaper

As is shaving off all your hair and going bald.

[Page]

To whatever extent this phenomenon exists, and I will note that 3000 followers of a subreddit does not quite constitute 3000 men committing to transition, I believe in the right to do anything you want to your own body for any reason. So go on, transmaxxers, live your best lives.

Now I do have to dissect a few points on your list:

#4 - There is no reason to think a greater amount of estrogen will make one more emotional or happier. Indeed, testosterone can alter emotions just as well and increase one's energy. A lot of men with low T who get replacement treatments end up reporting a heightened sense of well-being.

#8 - Human females live longer on average than human males but there is no evidence that hormones are responsible for the disparity. Moreover, after accounting for societal factors such as men being more likely to be involved in violence, being more successful in committing suicide, and smoking and drinking more on average, the disparity narrows quite a bit.

#12 - Yeah, I don't know about that. In any case, women and men are treated better and worse in different ways and it would be a foolish bet to assume you'd prefer the advantages and disadvantages of the opposite gender, cause you won't even know what those are unless and until you find out for yourself by transitioning. Also, you're making these assumptions on the basis that you'll pass. Because if you don't pass, you will be treated much worse than cisgender men or cisgender women or passing trans people, and...

#13 - Being noticeably trans makes you way more likely to be killed.

#15 - Insurance companies discriminating on the basis of gender is increasingly illegal in many places, and for men unfortunate enough to live somewhere where it's not, sorry to say but the price of your transition will greatly overshadow your potential car insurance savings.

[Senkaku]

Nobody is offering an actual solution to this.

unfortunately sometimes there’s no solution to crazy

[Frisemark]

Sometimes I wonder how many minutes it takes Saiwania to come up with bait posts. Evidently it can't be long.

[Page]

I'm very much against sex changes in general, but do concede that it seems more viable to do MtF than FtM with our current medical technology/practices. I can't imagine going for something that is too permanent in that there is "no going back" after a certain point once it has been done. I'm very dissatisfied with what is expected of men from women and larger society, but I'm the sort to never give up my body for the world. What is your experience in terms of it being more positive or negative to be the sex/gender that you are?

FTM people can get permanently deepened voices and facial hair from hormones alone, while MTF people can only permanently get rid of facial hair via laser surgery and have to practice a great deal at their voice. FTM people pass much, much easier than MTF too.

[The Holy Therns]

Sai, bud, have you considered getting a job and actually going outside and socializing instead of making posts like this?

He has considered and firmly rejected this.

[Ifreann]

If there is indeed a pattern of small groups of people leaving the incel community for the trans community then my first assumption wouldn't be a Machiavellian masterplan. People in often quite right-wing circles who complain a large amount about how difficult it is to be male and spend a lot of time envying women seem like a bunch who might just have a few repressed transgender people in their community.

Transgender people? Perpetually online in weird and obscure internet communities?

[Saiwania]

He has considered and firmly rejected this.

My problem is more that I don't ever want to work for money, but that I effectively have no choice but to become employed if I want to keep living for the long term or to otherwise avoid becoming homeless. And every job of every sort which I've tried, I don't find any fulfillment in. And romance by default isn't even an option for me as a male with no money or prospects. I was unemployed for too long so I'm screwed. Even this career coach is struggling mightily to find anything out there that could take me on as being profitable. I might be an "impossible to help" client.

Biological women allegedly can or did have the privilege of not needing a job if they were attached to a husband for a long while, until it became the norm for everyone to have to work to some extent.

[Mtwara]

Biological women allegedly can or did have the privilege of not needing a job if they were attached to a husband for a long while, until it became the norm for everyone to have to work to some extent.

That must be based on a very narrow definition of work.

[Rhodevus]

He has considered and firmly rejected this.

My problem is more that I don't ever want to work for money, but that I effectively have no choice but to become employed if I want to keep living for the long term or to otherwise avoid becoming homeless. And every job of every sort which I've tried, I don't find any fulfillment in. And romance by default isn't even an option for me as a male with no money or prospects. I was unemployed for too long so I'm screwed. Even this career coach is struggling mightily to find anything out there that could take me on as being profitable. I might be an "impossible to help" client.

Biological women allegedly can or did have the privilege of not needing a job if they were attached to a husband for a long while, until it became the norm for everyone to have to work to some extent.

Not really a privilege to not need a job. They were not allowed to get a job. They weren't allowed to own a credit card, or a bank account without a man's permission. It's not a privilege, it was a social rule, and I'm glad that we as a society have moved passed that.

[Kannap]

He has considered and firmly rejected this.

My problem is more that I don't ever want to work for money, but that I effectively have no choice but to become employed if I want to keep living for the long term or to otherwise avoid becoming homeless.

Capitalism and the commodification of all of our needs to be as profitable for a small few as possible is great, isn't it?

And every job of every sort which I've tried, I don't find any fulfillment in.

Must be nice to have the luxury to just not work because you don't enjoy your job. Speaking as somebody who has worked numerous shitty jobs here.

And romance by default isn't even an option for me as a male with no money or prospects.

The being a fascist thing probably also plays a big part, but do feel free to carry on with the "woe is me" narrative.

I was unemployed for too long so I'm screwed.

This seems inaccurate, considering there are plenty of jobs that will take inexperienced, entry-level folks onboard. I'm just assuming they're jobs you don't want to work.

Biological women allegedly can or did have the privilege of not needing a job if they were attached to a husband for a long while, until it became the norm for everyone to have to work to some extent.

This sentence heavily that you are operating on definitions of "privilege" and "work" than I - or many others - operate upon. Firstly, women didn't have the "privilege" of not needing a job, plenty of women had jobs - but many women were unemployed because of the outdated (by modern standards) values of the time that expected women to be housekeepers, childcare workers, and cooks at home for their husbands and kids, all of which is work that barred them from getting an actual job. Secondly, when women finally entered the workplace in a wider way - largely due to them proving they can do the jobs by filling in when millions of young men went to war in two world wars - it was an accomplishment, it was progress, it was the earning of more hard-fought-for equality for women's rights. The door was finally open for women to have careers that were traditionally men-only.

As for your definition of "work," women have worked their asses off throughout history. You've got a very telling idea of women and work if you think being a stay-at-home mom or a traditional housewife isn't work. Housekeeping/cleaning, taking care of children, laundry, cooking, the list goes on, are all things that are actual jobs that people get hired and paid for, and women have and still do perform this work without pay at home. Recent views on gender have seen more men than before being the stay-at-home spouse/parent and more women being the breadwinners, but the point stands that whoever is at home performing the labor of childcare, cooking, and all the housekeeping chores is working their asses off.

[USS Monitor]

As of late, I've been fascinated by this "transmaxxing" phenomenon that is allegedly going on.

Key word: "allegedly"

[Drongonia]

bro?