Feminism and How I don't Care

[Central Slavia]

Not saying it doesn't happen but paternity leave is definately less common and custody is normally given to the mother by defualt.

See how less frequent paternity leave is on a world scale? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_leave

That is why feminists are trying to get governments to extend parental benefits to both parents regardless of sex.

Feminists have, indeed, been the strongest driving force behind getting parental leave benefits for BOTH men and women.

Funny how feminists are blamed for not having yet won a fight...when they're often the only ones fighting it in the first place.

What's the point of having a man collect parental benefits? he is not incapacitated by being pregnant and having to breast-feed

[Schwabenreich]

Not saying it doesn't happen but paternity leave is definately less common and custody is normally given to the mother by defualt.

See how less frequent paternity leave is on a world scale? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_leave

That is why feminists are trying to get governments to extend parental benefits to both parents regardless of sex.

Feminists have, indeed, been the strongest driving force behind getting parental leave benefits for BOTH men and women.

Funny how feminists are blamed for not having yet won a fight...when they're often the only ones fighting it in the first place.

The fathers right movement and Fathers 4 justice aren't doing anything? Honestly they seem to be fighting very hard for the cause, more so then anyone else at least.

[Central Slavia]

To intersect - it was mentioned in Super Freakonomics - most income inequality in women and men comes from women working less hours, either due to maternity or not , and overall being less "aggressive workers"
Sadly one of my friends has the book borrowed, now for 5 months already , so i cannot retype it here

So working fewer hours, likely due to family obligations, translates to a justification for hiring at a lower wage and giving lower raises? Perception of being "less aggressive" means the quality of their work is automatically lower?

Congratulations, you're a chauvinist.

Did you read this after yourself?
In a capitalist economy it is.
I am for a socialist economy - there it falls apart because people need to work less, and therefore the difference becomes unimportant. But that is for everyone ,not just for a select group

[Bottle]

Not saying it doesn't happen but paternity leave is definately less common and custody is normally given to the mother by defualt.

See how less frequent paternity leave is on a world scale? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_leave

That is why feminists are trying to get governments to extend parental benefits to both parents regardless of sex.

Feminists have, indeed, been the strongest driving force behind getting parental leave benefits for BOTH men and women.

Funny how feminists are blamed for not having yet won a fight...when they're often the only ones fighting it in the first place.

What's the point of having a man collect parental benefits? he is not incapacitated by being pregnant and having to breast-feed

Are you seriously asking this?

Like, are you even participating in the same conversation here?

[Schwabenreich]

Not saying it doesn't happen but paternity leave is definately less common and custody is normally given to the mother by defualt.

See how less frequent paternity leave is on a world scale? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_leave

That is why feminists are trying to get governments to extend parental benefits to both parents regardless of sex.

Feminists have, indeed, been the strongest driving force behind getting parental leave benefits for BOTH men and women.

Funny how feminists are blamed for not having yet won a fight...when they're often the only ones fighting it in the first place.

What's the point of having a man collect parental benefits? he is not incapacitated by being pregnant and having to breast-feed

Well, say he gets custody of the child or the wife runs off, hes going to need a little time outside of his job to wait hand on foot on a child. Its a lot of work breast-feeding asside. If hes a single parent he can't exactly be running a full shift.

[Bottle]

Not saying it doesn't happen but paternity leave is definately less common and custody is normally given to the mother by defualt.

See how less frequent paternity leave is on a world scale? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_leave

That is why feminists are trying to get governments to extend parental benefits to both parents regardless of sex.

Feminists have, indeed, been the strongest driving force behind getting parental leave benefits for BOTH men and women.

Funny how feminists are blamed for not having yet won a fight...when they're often the only ones fighting it in the first place.

The fathers right movement[/url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers_4_justice] and [url]Fathers 4 justice aren't doing anything? Honestly they seem to be fighting very hard for the cause, more so then anyone else at least.

Nope, they aren't. The "father's rights" movement mostly centers on changing laws about custody and child support payments. They expend little to no energy and money on fighting for paternity leave. The biggest sponsors of paternity leave initiatives have been women's organizations.

[Central Slavia]

Not saying it doesn't happen but paternity leave is definately less common and custody is normally given to the mother by defualt.

See how less frequent paternity leave is on a world scale? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_leave

That is why feminists are trying to get governments to extend parental benefits to both parents regardless of sex.

Feminists have, indeed, been the strongest driving force behind getting parental leave benefits for BOTH men and women.

Funny how feminists are blamed for not having yet won a fight...when they're often the only ones fighting it in the first place.

What's the point of having a man collect parental benefits? he is not incapacitated by being pregnant and having to breast-feed

Well, say he gets custody of the child or the wife runs off, hes going to need a little time outside of his job to wait hand on foot on a child. Its a lot of work breast-feeding asside. If hes a single parent he can't exactly be running a full shift.

Well but that is different - that is child payment and every parent is eligible to that.
Besides the wife would have to pay for the kid if he got custody.

[Schwabenreich]

Not saying it doesn't happen but paternity leave is definately less common and custody is normally given to the mother by defualt.

See how less frequent paternity leave is on a world scale? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_leave

That is why feminists are trying to get governments to extend parental benefits to both parents regardless of sex.

Feminists have, indeed, been the strongest driving force behind getting parental leave benefits for BOTH men and women.

Funny how feminists are blamed for not having yet won a fight...when they're often the only ones fighting it in the first place.

What's the point of having a man collect parental benefits? he is not incapacitated by being pregnant and having to breast-feed

Well, say he gets custody of the child or the wife runs off, hes going to need a little time outside of his job to wait hand on foot on a child. Its a lot of work breast-feeding asside. If hes a single parent he can't exactly be running a full shift.

Well but that is different - that is child payment and every parent is eligible to that.
Besides the wife would have to pay for the kid if he got custody.

Well men evade childsupport and so can women, what if the mother died during childbirth or shortly after. People can lose their job if they don't work even outside of payments. In Parental leave, its like saying, you can take time off, and you can come back after. Thats kind of why unpaid parental leave exists.

[Schwabenreich]

Not saying it doesn't happen but paternity leave is definately less common and custody is normally given to the mother by defualt.

See how less frequent paternity leave is on a world scale? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_leave

That is why feminists are trying to get governments to extend parental benefits to both parents regardless of sex.

Feminists have, indeed, been the strongest driving force behind getting parental leave benefits for BOTH men and women.

Funny how feminists are blamed for not having yet won a fight...when they're often the only ones fighting it in the first place.

The fathers right movement[/url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers_4_justice] and [url]Fathers 4 justice aren't doing anything? Honestly they seem to be fighting very hard for the cause, more so then anyone else at least.

Nope, they aren't. The "father's rights" movement mostly centers on changing laws about custody and child support payments. They expend little to no energy and money on fighting for paternity leave. The biggest sponsors of paternity leave initiatives have been women's organizations.

Ah I see, well glad they're keeping to the equal rights thing, they'd look bad if they said we want womens rights for equal rights and didn't extend the same demands for men.

[Bottle]

Not saying it doesn't happen but paternity leave is definately less common and custody is normally given to the mother by defualt.

See how less frequent paternity leave is on a world scale? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_leave

That is why feminists are trying to get governments to extend parental benefits to both parents regardless of sex.

Feminists have, indeed, been the strongest driving force behind getting parental leave benefits for BOTH men and women.

Funny how feminists are blamed for not having yet won a fight...when they're often the only ones fighting it in the first place.

The fathers right movement[/url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers_4_justice] and [url]Fathers 4 justice aren't doing anything? Honestly they seem to be fighting very hard for the cause, more so then anyone else at least.

Nope, they aren't. The "father's rights" movement mostly centers on changing laws about custody and child support payments. They expend little to no energy and money on fighting for paternity leave. The biggest sponsors of paternity leave initiatives have been women's organizations.

Ah I see, well glad they're keeping to the equal rights thing, they'd look bad if they said we want womens rights for equal rights and didn't extend the same demands to men.

Lol, gotta love that...organizations that fight for women's rights are somehow obligated to also fight for men's rights? Guess women are supposed to clean up after all of men's messes, huh.

Let's be honest, shall we? "Men's rights" organizations are basically just clubs for guys who are bitter about their divorces and who want to get laws passed that will give unfair advantages to men who are seeking custody or who don't want to support their children. "Men's rights" organizations do buggerall to help get men paternity leave, to address how racial and class-based discrimination seem to disproportionately hurt boys, to address sexist stereotypes that hurt men's health (like the current stereotype that Real Men Don't Eat Healthy, or that Real Men engage in reckless and dangerous behaviors), or any of the other countless issues caused by sexism hurting men.

Yet who gets blamed for not fighting all those battles on behalf of men? WOMEN'S organizations. Feminists get blamed for not having (yet) won all the battles on behalf of women AND on behalf of men.

I'd love to hear people make statements like yours about MEN'S RIGHTS movements. "Wow, they sure look bad for not fighting harder for MATERNITY leave laws!"

[Treznor]

To intersect - it was mentioned in Super Freakonomics - most income inequality in women and men comes from women working less hours, either due to maternity or not , and overall being less "aggressive workers"
Sadly one of my friends has the book borrowed, now for 5 months already , so i cannot retype it here

So working fewer hours, likely due to family obligations, translates to a justification for hiring at a lower wage and giving lower raises? Perception of being "less aggressive" means the quality of their work is automatically lower?

Congratulations, you're a chauvinist.

Did you read this after yourself?
In a capitalist economy it is.
I am for a socialist economy - there it falls apart because people need to work less, and therefore the difference becomes unimportant. But that is for everyone ,not just for a select group

Thank you for proving my point not only with regard to your chauvinism but also demonstrating the callousness of capitalism.

That a woman might become pregnant or raise a family is not justification to hire her at lower wages. You can't demonstrate that fathers don't take off more time from work than men with no parental responsibility, so why aren't they similarly discriminated against in hiring and raise practices?

[Schwabenreich]

Not saying it doesn't happen but paternity leave is definately less common and custody is normally given to the mother by defualt.

See how less frequent paternity leave is on a world scale? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_leave

That is why feminists are trying to get governments to extend parental benefits to both parents regardless of sex.

Feminists have, indeed, been the strongest driving force behind getting parental leave benefits for BOTH men and women.

Funny how feminists are blamed for not having yet won a fight...when they're often the only ones fighting it in the first place.

The fathers right movement[/url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers_4_justice] and [url]Fathers 4 justice aren't doing anything? Honestly they seem to be fighting very hard for the cause, more so then anyone else at least.

Nope, they aren't. The "father's rights" movement mostly centers on changing laws about custody and child support payments. They expend little to no energy and money on fighting for paternity leave. The biggest sponsors of paternity leave initiatives have been women's organizations.

Ah I see, well glad they're keeping to the equal rights thing, they'd look bad if they said we want womens rights for equal rights and didn't extend the same demands to men.

Lol, gotta love that...organizations that fight for women's rights are somehow obligated to also fight for men's rights? Guess women are supposed to clean up after all of men's messes, huh.

Let's be honest, shall we? "Men's rights" organizations are basically just clubs for guys who are bitter about their divorces and who want to get laws passed that will give unfair advantages to men who are seeking custody or who don't want to support their children. "Men's rights" organizations do buggerall to help get men paternity leave, to address how racial and class-based discrimination seem to disproportionately hurt boys, to address sexist stereotypes that hurt men's health (like the current stereotype that Real Men Don't Eat Healthy, or that Real Men engage in reckless and dangerous behaviors), or any of the other countless issues caused by sexism hurting men.

Yet who gets blamed for not fighting all those battles on behalf of men? WOMEN'S organizations. Feminists get blamed for not having (yet) won all the battles on behalf of women AND on behalf of men.

I'd love to hear people make statements like yours about MEN'S RIGHTS movements. "Wow, they sure look bad for not fighting harder for MATERNITY leave laws!"

Personally I think their movements are overshadowed by the outspoken members of feminists, more men need to get on board. Equal rights for both sexes would ideolly have equal fighters for both sides. Edit: I guess I should go sign myself up to the nearest movement I find, never heard of any in my local area but I think I'll find some if I hunt around. Sucks to live in the country side lol

[Bottle]

To intersect - it was mentioned in Super Freakonomics - most income inequality in women and men comes from women working less hours, either due to maternity or not , and overall being less "aggressive workers"
Sadly one of my friends has the book borrowed, now for 5 months already , so i cannot retype it here

So working fewer hours, likely due to family obligations, translates to a justification for hiring at a lower wage and giving lower raises? Perception of being "less aggressive" means the quality of their work is automatically lower?

Congratulations, you're a chauvinist.

Did you read this after yourself?
In a capitalist economy it is.
I am for a socialist economy - there it falls apart because people need to work less, and therefore the difference becomes unimportant. But that is for everyone ,not just for a select group

Thank you for proving my point not only with regard to your chauvinism but also demonstrating the callousness of capitalism.

That a woman might become pregnant or raise a family is not justification to hire her at lower wages. You can't demonstrate that fathers don't take off more time from work than men with no parental responsibility, so why aren't they similarly discriminated against in hiring and raise practices?

And, again, how does that mean that they "cost more" to employers? A woman who works fewer hours and GETS PAID LESS isn't costing extra. Especially since she's less likely to get promoted (and get a raise to go with it) and less likely to collect high benefits (or any at all).

[Bottle]

Not saying it doesn't happen but paternity leave is definately less common and custody is normally given to the mother by defualt.

See how less frequent paternity leave is on a world scale? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_leave

That is why feminists are trying to get governments to extend parental benefits to both parents regardless of sex.

Feminists have, indeed, been the strongest driving force behind getting parental leave benefits for BOTH men and women.

Funny how feminists are blamed for not having yet won a fight...when they're often the only ones fighting it in the first place.

The fathers right movement[/url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers_4_justice] and [url]Fathers 4 justice aren't doing anything? Honestly they seem to be fighting very hard for the cause, more so then anyone else at least.

Nope, they aren't. The "father's rights" movement mostly centers on changing laws about custody and child support payments. They expend little to no energy and money on fighting for paternity leave. The biggest sponsors of paternity leave initiatives have been women's organizations.

Ah I see, well glad they're keeping to the equal rights thing, they'd look bad if they said we want womens rights for equal rights and didn't extend the same demands to men.

Lol, gotta love that...organizations that fight for women's rights are somehow obligated to also fight for men's rights? Guess women are supposed to clean up after all of men's messes, huh.

Let's be honest, shall we? "Men's rights" organizations are basically just clubs for guys who are bitter about their divorces and who want to get laws passed that will give unfair advantages to men who are seeking custody or who don't want to support their children. "Men's rights" organizations do buggerall to help get men paternity leave, to address how racial and class-based discrimination seem to disproportionately hurt boys, to address sexist stereotypes that hurt men's health (like the current stereotype that Real Men Don't Eat Healthy, or that Real Men engage in reckless and dangerous behaviors), or any of the other countless issues caused by sexism hurting men.

Yet who gets blamed for not fighting all those battles on behalf of men? WOMEN'S organizations. Feminists get blamed for not having (yet) won all the battles on behalf of women AND on behalf of men.

I'd love to hear people make statements like yours about MEN'S RIGHTS movements. "Wow, they sure look bad for not fighting harder for MATERNITY leave laws!"

Personally I think their movements are overshadowed by the outspoken members of feminists, more men need to get on board. Equal rights for both sexes would ideolly have equal fighters for both sides.

Then you go do the work of getting men on board with feminism. Get your male friends involved. Stop expecting feminists (the most outspoken of whom tend to be women) to do all the work.

[Schwabenreich]

Not saying it doesn't happen but paternity leave is definately less common and custody is normally given to the mother by defualt.

See how less frequent paternity leave is on a world scale? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_leave

That is why feminists are trying to get governments to extend parental benefits to both parents regardless of sex.

Feminists have, indeed, been the strongest driving force behind getting parental leave benefits for BOTH men and women.

Funny how feminists are blamed for not having yet won a fight...when they're often the only ones fighting it in the first place.

The fathers right movement[/url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers_4_justice] and [url]Fathers 4 justice aren't doing anything? Honestly they seem to be fighting very hard for the cause, more so then anyone else at least.

Nope, they aren't. The "father's rights" movement mostly centers on changing laws about custody and child support payments. They expend little to no energy and money on fighting for paternity leave. The biggest sponsors of paternity leave initiatives have been women's organizations.

Ah I see, well glad they're keeping to the equal rights thing, they'd look bad if they said we want womens rights for equal rights and didn't extend the same demands to men.

Lol, gotta love that...organizations that fight for women's rights are somehow obligated to also fight for men's rights? Guess women are supposed to clean up after all of men's messes, huh.

Let's be honest, shall we? "Men's rights" organizations are basically just clubs for guys who are bitter about their divorces and who want to get laws passed that will give unfair advantages to men who are seeking custody or who don't want to support their children. "Men's rights" organizations do buggerall to help get men paternity leave, to address how racial and class-based discrimination seem to disproportionately hurt boys, to address sexist stereotypes that hurt men's health (like the current stereotype that Real Men Don't Eat Healthy, or that Real Men engage in reckless and dangerous behaviors), or any of the other countless issues caused by sexism hurting men.

Yet who gets blamed for not fighting all those battles on behalf of men? WOMEN'S organizations. Feminists get blamed for not having (yet) won all the battles on behalf of women AND on behalf of men.

I'd love to hear people make statements like yours about MEN'S RIGHTS movements. "Wow, they sure look bad for not fighting harder for MATERNITY leave laws!"

Personally I think their movements are overshadowed by the outspoken members of feminists, more men need to get on board. Equal rights for both sexes would ideolly have equal fighters for both sides.

Then you go do the work of getting men on board with feminism. Get your male friends involved. Stop expecting feminists (the most outspoken of whom tend to be women) to do all the work.

I'm not expecting them to do 'all' the work.. in fact, i'm quite surprised to hear them doing work for our cause at all, with a name like feminists for their movement, emphasising females.

[Central Slavia]

And, again, how does that mean that they "cost more" to employers? A woman who works fewer hours and GETS PAID LESS isn't costing extra. Especially since she's less likely to get promoted (and get a raise to go with it) and less likely to collect high benefits (or any at all).

The politics going on and whiny litigatious women might be a cause too.

[Catnip Addicted Cats]

Statement 1: bell hooks is insane. She is an example of how minorities can be just as prejudiced and ignorant as everyone else.

Statement 2: If mainstream feminists want to avoid being associated with whack jobs who want to enslave and exterminate men, they should speak up more.

Statement 3: If you are a battered husband, try calling 911 after your wife beats the hell out of you, and gauge their reaction. Try going to the typical domestic violence shelter and see if you're even allowed in the door.

Statement 4: Tiger Woods, Jesse James, John Edwards. All cheated. All crucified by the media. Yet when Angelina Jolie did it, it was barely a blip on the radar. The only way it would have made the news is if she had blamed Brad Pitt - and the media would be in her corner.

Statement 5: I was actually taught in colleges that only whites can be racist, only men can be sexist, only rich people can be classist, and only straights can be judgmental on issues of sexual orientation. I know from having lived on planet Earth for 27 years-plus that this is bullshit. I guess, as a straight, white, middle-class male, I am expected to just smile and take "honky," "breeder," "spoiled brat," and "All men are disgusting pigs/cheaters/rapists/liars/should die."

[Bottle]

And, again, how does that mean that they "cost more" to employers? A woman who works fewer hours and GETS PAID LESS isn't costing extra. Especially since she's less likely to get promoted (and get a raise to go with it) and less likely to collect high benefits (or any at all).

The politics going on and whiny litigatious women might be a cause too.

Again, do you have ANYTHING to back up these claims? Anything at all?

[Bottle]

I'm not expecting them to do 'all' the work.. in fact, i'm quite surprised to hear them doing work for our cause at all, with a name like feminists for their movement, emphasising females.

Well that's hella refreshing.

Cause seriously, I get so fucking tired of boys telling me that feminism isn't doing enough. Fuck them. Feminists have had to fight every step of the way for every scrap of progress, yet nobody seems willing to yell at any of the forces that we're fighting AGAINST...it's always about blaming feminists for not having fixed the world yet.

[Treznor]

I'm not expecting them to do 'all' the work.. in fact, i'm quite surprised to hear them doing work for our cause at all, with a name like feminists for their movement, emphasising females.

Well that's hella refreshing.

Cause seriously, I get so fucking tired of boys telling me that feminism isn't doing enough. Fuck them. Feminists have had to fight every step of the way for every scrap of progress, yet nobody seems willing to yell at any of the forces that we're fighting AGAINST...it's always about blaming feminists for not having fixed the world yet.

That's because the more power women have, the more threatened we men feel. We're all about fairness -- so long as it's fair in our favor. So I'm not really surprised at the conservative backlash against feminism. Women oughta know their place and not get all uppity about equal rights.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

I am a female, and in my opinion equal rights is important for all, i.e. everyone, equal rights is not in my opinion sexist or whatever, it is just equal rights, and it is needed.

[Aggicificicerous]

Statement 1: bell hooks is insane. She is an example of how minorities can be just as prejudiced and ignorant as everyone else.

Statement 2: If mainstream feminists want to avoid being associated with whack jobs who are want to enslave and exterminate men, they should speak up more.

Mainstream feminists don't have to say anything to avoid being associated with whack jobs. If you can't tell the difference, you are being willfully ignorant.

Statement 3: If you are a battered husband, try calling 911 after your wife beats the hell out of you, and gauge their reaction. Try going to the typical domestic violence shelter and see if you're even allowed in the door.

If you have been beaten up, the 911 will help you regardless who did the beating. And yes, domestic violence shelters will allow men.

Statement 4: Tiger Woods, Jesse James, John Edwards. All cheated. All crucified by the media. Yet when Angelina Jolie did it, it was barely a blip on the radar. The only way it would have made the news is if she had blamed Brad Pitt - and the media would be in her corner.

So what? Are you really trying to use celebreties to prove a point about peope in general? And are you unaware of what women who sleep around tend to be called?

Statement 5: I was actually taught in colleges that only whites can be racist, only men can be sexist, only rich people can be classist, and only straights can be judgmental on issues of sexual orientation. I know from having lived on planet Earth for 27 years-plus that this is bullshit. I guess, as a straight, white, middle-class male, I am expected to just smile and take "honky," "breeder," "spoiled brat," and "All men are disgusting pigs/cheaters/rapists/liars/should die."

I don't know where you went to college, and I don't much care. I have never heard anyone say only whites can be racist except as a joke, but what does an anecdote prove? Give real evidence.

[Central Slavia]

And, again, how does that mean that they "cost more" to employers? A woman who works fewer hours and GETS PAID LESS isn't costing extra. Especially since she's less likely to get promoted (and get a raise to go with it) and less likely to collect high benefits (or any at all).

The politics going on and whiny litigatious women might be a cause too.

Again, do you have ANYTHING to back up these claims? Anything at all?

Because it's not like feminists don't sue companies for invent "harrasment" and whatever thing they can think of

[Treznor]

And, again, how does that mean that they "cost more" to employers? A woman who works fewer hours and GETS PAID LESS isn't costing extra. Especially since she's less likely to get promoted (and get a raise to go with it) and less likely to collect high benefits (or any at all).

The politics going on and whiny litigatious women might be a cause too.

Again, do you have ANYTHING to back up these claims? Anything at all?

Because it's not like feminists don't sue companies for invent "harrasment" and whatever thing they can think of

Then it shouldn't be a problem for you to provide examples of how common this harassment really is.

[Bottle]

And, again, how does that mean that they "cost more" to employers? A woman who works fewer hours and GETS PAID LESS isn't costing extra. Especially since she's less likely to get promoted (and get a raise to go with it) and less likely to collect high benefits (or any at all).

The politics going on and whiny litigatious women might be a cause too.

Again, do you have ANYTHING to back up these claims? Anything at all?

Because it's not like feminists don't sue companies for invent "harrasment" and whatever thing they can think of

Then it shouldn't be a problem for you to provide examples of how common this harassment really is.

Alongside statistic on how often men sue for wrongful termination or similar things, of course. You know, so we can see the clear and obvious proof that women cost employers more. And alongside statistics proving that women aren't ACTUALLY MORE LIKELY to face discrimination, and thus that the women are the cause of these costs rather than illegal hiring/firing practices.