The Ukrainian War V: Tanks For The Memories

[Tarsonis]

I wonder who THIS could be?

He's the surprise guest.

But not who we think apparently. Mods confirmed a different poster.

[Utquiagvik]

Possible Ukrainian Counterattack coming in Bakhmut?

It would be freaking hilarious if Ukraine pushes Russia out of Bakhmut. 7 months and thousands of troops for nothing. Let’s all hope that Ukraine’s counteroffensives go very well.

[Rhodesia-South Africa]

Possible Ukrainian Counterattack coming in Bakhmut?

It would be freaking hilarious if Ukraine pushes Russia out of Bakhmut. 7 months and thousands of troops for nothing. Let’s all hope that Ukraine’s counteroffensives go very well.

I don’t know why Ukraine isn’t going for the areas south of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia instead of Bakhmut. The first two are further away from the Russian border than Bakhmut is (unless you claim Crimea is part of Russia. It also disrupts the Azov bridge and gives Ukraine more sea access than pushing into Bakhmut, where Ukraine’s forces are already the most overextended

[Northern Seleucia]

Possible Ukrainian Counterattack coming in Bakhmut?

It would be freaking hilarious if Ukraine pushes Russia out of Bakhmut. 7 months and thousands of troops for nothing. Let’s all hope that Ukraine’s counteroffensives go very well.

Waiting for the Wikipedia Update saying Ukrainian victory lol

[Archinstinct]

It would be freaking hilarious if Ukraine pushes Russia out of Bakhmut. 7 months and thousands of troops for nothing. Let’s all hope that Ukraine’s counteroffensives go very well.

Waiting for the Wikipedia Update saying Ukrainian victory lol

Zelensky seems to be pulling a McClellan and wants more western equipment before he says ukraine can launch a counteroffensive.

[Rusozak]

You haven't addressed a single fact I have brought up. You are trying to change the subject from Bellingcat being funded by the American government and NGOs to vauge accusations that I am a kReMlIn PrOpAgAnDiSt.

oh honey i assure you the accusations aren't vague

I'm not the one supporting military aid to the Azov battalion.

I doubt anyone here does. Especially considering they're dead.

Meanwhile, in the Wagner Group...

[El Lazaro]

He's the surprise guest.

But not who we think apparently. Mods confirmed a different poster.

I’d be absolutely shocked if this is the same user with a VPN and different device. It couldn’t be, or could it?

[Adamede]

Why yes, I do.

And apparently after they got caught lying about that, Russia then miraculously "found" satellite photos of a Ukrainian Buk launcher shooting down MH17...

This is Russian state TV making a stupid mistake and then the Russian MoD giving their actual position. Journalists do stupid shit all the time.

Bellingcat? Western propaganda, of course. *nods*

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/10/09/bell ... sts-syria/

It's literally funded by the NED, which is a front for the CIA. Not to mention its funding from the open society foundation among other groups.

So you’re just following the Russian government’s narrative, got it.

[El Lazaro]

Why yes, I do.

And apparently after they got caught lying about that, Russia then miraculously "found" satellite photos of a Ukrainian Buk launcher shooting down MH17...

This is Russian state TV making a stupid mistake and then the Russian MoD giving their actual position. Journalists do stupid shit all the time.

Bellingcat? Western propaganda, of course. *nods*

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/10/09/bell ... sts-syria/

It's literally funded by the NED, which is a front for the CIA. Not to mention its funding from the open society foundation among other groups.

Isn’t that a tankie blog? If you really want to criticize unreliable sources, why not just pull it up from the NED’s expenditure docs?

[Adamede]

You sourced The Grayzone, mate, edited by Max Blumenthal, who has repeatedly been exposed as a supporter of Russia, conspiracy theorist, especially on the COVID-19 pandemic, supporter of Assad, appeared on Sputnik and RT, as well as Tucker Carlson's show on Fox, falsely claimed the Mariupol Theater Airstrike was Azov's doing, denied Uyghur oppression, blamed rebels for Assad's chemical attacks,[url] and more. You used a [url=https://adfontesmedia.com/grayzone-bias-reliability/]source that is seen as unreliable, far-left and biased, and rather controversial.

Therefore I have no reason to take your source seriously, and can safely discredit your claim.

Carry on.

based, based, based, based, based, based, based, based.

I don't even need to cite the Greyzone. I cited Bellingcat itself earlier. Are they not a good source? They're the ones saying that they are funded by the NED and European Union. Greyzone is just repeating their own statement.

Yes nothing more based than making shit up to justify the actions of authoritarian governments amirite guys?

[Adamede]

i would trust greyzone any day over western propaganda made by the same people that lied about iraq

So you’re going to trust the people who lied about Ukraine?

[Adamede]

Didn't know. Honestly they don't use the language that other MLs use when defending Russia. They use language and arguments i'd expect more from MAGA and alt-right neo-fascists.

You're not wrong tbh. Says a lot about the groups that Russia attracts that the rhetoric is practically the same between the Nazis and self-proclaimed Marxists.

Lot of known neo-Nazis flying Soviet flags at that “rage against the war machine” rally.

Russia is assembling an axis of the dunces.

[Adamede]

Can you say the same about RT and Sputnik?

Yes. The only difference is that I think the Russian official story is more true than the American one. My problem with RT and Sputnik is that they cover for Putin's greatest mistakes which is following a strategy of limited war and not invading Ukraine in 2014. Putin has admitted that he made a mistake in trusting the west in 2014 and after the Minsk agreements. At this point Russia is trying to limit the war and limit escalation which is not what they should be doing. Putin should have simply declared formal war on the first day and done whatever was necessary to win as quickly as possible. The longer it goes on the better Russia and China's geopolitical position becomes, but the more dangerous this is for the world because the US is given more time to escalate the war.

Why is that? Why are you willing to listen to explicit Russian state media over sources that have received American government funding? Why the double standard?

[Archinstinct]

You're not wrong tbh. Says a lot about the groups that Russia attracts that the rhetoric is practically the same between the Nazis and self-proclaimed Marxists.

Lot of known neo-Nazis flying Soviet flags at that “rage against the war machine” rally.

Russia is assembling an axis of the dunces.

ahvent seen you around in a while adamede. Hope your night went better than mine.

[Adamede]

Lot of known neo-Nazis flying Soviet flags at that “rage against the war machine” rally.

Russia is assembling an axis of the dunces.

ahvent seen you around in a while adamede. Hope your night went better than mine.

Eh same old same old. I try not to stay on here too long lest I say something stupider than what I generally say and get in trouble.

[Lativs]

It would be freaking hilarious if Ukraine pushes Russia out of Bakhmut. 7 months and thousands of troops for nothing. Let’s all hope that Ukraine’s counteroffensives go very well.

I don’t know why Ukraine isn’t going for the areas south of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia instead of Bakhmut. The first two are further away from the Russian border than Bakhmut is (unless you claim Crimea is part of Russia. It also disrupts the Azov bridge and gives Ukraine more sea access than pushing into Bakhmut, where Ukraine’s forces are already the most overextended

You can say that, in short...An attack on the South of Ukraine is more strategically convenient than some kind of battle for Donbass. When Mariupol is captured (even if Melitopol is bypassed), the Crimean bridge and the military infrastructure that supported the supply of the Kherson group to Russia are cut off, Russian military formations are cut off from each other. The offensive was planned as a sharp blitzkrieg on Mariupol. But, Prigozhin did a brilliant thing, provoked Ukraine to pull troops into a strategic insignificant area (even if the offensive succeeds there, militarily little will change, only politically will change, we will raise morale, there are more landlises, and there is no military advantage), and if they want to turn territories into Russia, they can...On the other hand, they want to take the combat-ready parts of Russia into the cauldron, and not reach its borders. The combat-ready units are the Wagner PMCs, which is opposed to the Russian General Staff and does not obey him, he can leave Bakhmut at any convenient moment. In short, it is Russia's merit that from a vulnerable place the troops for the offensive of Ukraine were transferred to the bastion of Wagner's bayonets

[Picairn]

Possible Ukrainian Counterattack coming in Bakhmut?

This is just jumping into a tiger's mouth. Russian troop concentration in Bakhmut is probably the heaviest of all fronts.

[Lativs]

Yes. The only difference is that I think the Russian official story is more true than the American one. My problem with RT and Sputnik is that they cover for Putin's greatest mistakes which is following a strategy of limited war and not invading Ukraine in 2014. Putin has admitted that he made a mistake in trusting the west in 2014 and after the Minsk agreements. At this point Russia is trying to limit the war and limit escalation which is not what they should be doing. Putin should have simply declared formal war on the first day and done whatever was necessary to win as quickly as possible. The longer it goes on the better Russia and China's geopolitical position becomes, but the more dangerous this is for the world because the US is given more time to escalate the war.

Why is that? Why are you willing to listen to explicit Russian state media over sources that have received American government funding? Why the double standard?

In general, comrade, Orkostan (or as a nickname)the skew is small. Despite the fact that I am against the war as such. It doesn't matter who attacked...America would have bombed Haiti, China Taiwan or Russia Ukraine-against.I do not believe the propaganda of our opposition that they take information from Ukraine that distorts information from Western Europe and the USA. I do not stand for the victory of Ukraine (it would be strange, I am still a Russian), for Kolomoisky's yacht (a literal quote from a resident of Odessa that escaped from the war to Israel, although this phrase has lost its relevance, now it is rather Zelensky's task) to die stupidly, how stupid to die (a literal quote from a Russian volunteer serving in Ukraine) for Rogozin's ass. RT is a dump, I would live in their manyamirka, but I live in ordinary Russia.It's not like it's under the Kremlin, it's also, but that's not the point, it's more like she's clumsily shitting the information war by showing what isn't really there. although I watch both state media and foreign ones, because in war and in the world propaganda is everywhere and everywhere, it is necessary to filter out fakes so as not to clog your brain. Putin's concept, which he has always adhered to, "will unite with Europe and introduce his capital into it, equally dividing Europe with America...America did not like the idea of dividing its sphere of influence. By that time, he had already begun to conclude contracts directly with NATO, even gave a military base in Ulyanovsk. As a result, he was sent to hell (Кузькиной матери), he read the Munich speech and Prigozhin appeared in politics with his doctrine, somewhere in 2012, which read - to expand the military presence in world politics, provoke a conflict on the border to promote Russia's national interests, trigger European sanctions on himself -bringing down the European economy thereby and to share it with the USA... As we see, it was not possible to bring down the European economy somehow, as well as to bring down the Russian economy to Europe. A stalemate.

[Picairn]

Holy shit, comrades...

Bravo, the usual drivel about Ukraine being a neo-Nazi state was expected but denying Bucha happened is a new low for you.

[Neanderthaland]

Waiting for the Wikipedia Update saying Ukrainian victory lol

Zelensky seems to be pulling a McClellan and wants more western equipment before he says ukraine can launch a counteroffensive.

I imagine he's afraid of pulling a Lee, and making a big play that turns out badly.

[Lativs]

Holy shit, comrades...

Bravo, the usual drivel about Ukraine being a neo-Nazi state was expected but denying Bucha happened is a new low for you.

the first moment, not Ukraine, not Russia, cannot be Nazi by nature, the second moment, if you are talking about the cult of Bandera, then it still exists... And not to say that the Volyn Massacre is from the category of secrets of history, the UPA there just distinguished themselves well, and their "Glory to Ukraine" was remembered for a long time. By the way, Stalin is now used as a brand in Russia...Does this mean we have communism? yes, it doesn't seem like the usual authoritarian bourgeois liberalism. Regarding the Butch, I have given the facts, so I ask you to answer accordingly.

[Neanderthaland]

Bravo, the usual drivel about Ukraine being a neo-Nazi state was expected but denying Bucha happened is a new low for you.

the first moment, not Ukraine, not Russia, cannot be Nazi by nature, the second moment, if you are talking about the cult of Bandera, then it still exists... And not to say that the Volyn Massacre is from the category of secrets of history, the UPA there just distinguished themselves well, and their "Glory to Ukraine" was remembered for a long time. By the way, Stalin is now used as a brand in Russia...Does this mean we have communism? yes, it doesn't seem like the usual authoritarian bourgeois liberalism. Regarding the Butch, I have given the facts, so I ask you to answer accordingly.

This probably makes more sense in Russian.

[Adamede]

Bravo, the usual drivel about Ukraine being a neo-Nazi state was expected but denying Bucha happened is a new low for you.

the first moment, not Ukraine, not Russia, cannot be Nazi by nature, the second moment, if you are talking about the cult of Bandera, then it still exists... And not to say that the Volyn Massacre is from the category of secrets of history, the UPA there just distinguished themselves well, and their "Glory to Ukraine" was remembered for a long time. By the way, Stalin is now used as a brand in Russia...Does this mean we have communism? yes, it doesn't seem like the usual authoritarian bourgeois liberalism. Regarding the Butch, I have given the facts, so I ask you to answer accordingly.

“Slava Ukraini” predates the UPA and Bandera.

[Lativs]

the first moment, not Ukraine, not Russia, cannot be Nazi by nature, the second moment, if you are talking about the cult of Bandera, then it still exists... And not to say that the Volyn Massacre is from the category of secrets of history, the UPA there just distinguished themselves well, and their "Glory to Ukraine" was remembered for a long time. By the way, Stalin is now used as a brand in Russia...Does this mean we have communism? yes, it doesn't seem like the usual authoritarian bourgeois liberalism. Regarding the Butch, I have given the facts, so I ask you to answer accordingly.

This probably makes more sense in Russian.

it's easier for me in Russian, my native is still, but the forum is English-speaking, because it's so necessary

[Lativs]

the first moment, not Ukraine, not Russia, cannot be Nazi by nature, the second moment, if you are talking about the cult of Bandera, then it still exists... And not to say that the Volyn Massacre is from the category of secrets of history, the UPA there just distinguished themselves well, and their "Glory to Ukraine" was remembered for a long time. By the way, Stalin is now used as a brand in Russia...Does this mean we have communism? yes, it doesn't seem like the usual authoritarian bourgeois liberalism. Regarding the Butch, I have given the facts, so I ask you to answer accordingly.

“Slava Ukraini” predates the UPA and Bandera.

at the time of the central rada (UPR), neither under Skoropadsky, nor under Petlyura, nor under Vinnichenko. It was issued by the Ukrainian Social revolutionaries who created the UPA, and then the UPA took part in the deplorable events.