The Ukrainian War V: Tanks For The Memories

[Orostan]

Media is going to jump to defend its country by default. If the Russian government wanted to release information through state media they'd do it with material that supports the MoD statement. This is so obviously a mistake by the media, especially because it was contradicted by the government later.

*cough* Russian MoD lied too *cough*

I don't care what Bellingcat says. Anything they say will be tainted by the fact that they are admitted recipients of US government support. They will never contradict the official story in the United States.

I'm openly a Marxist. I quote Stalin in my signature.

Again, there's no functional difference between idolizing Stalin and idolizing Hitler. Either way you're idolizing a genocidal shit stain on human history.

irrelevant to the subject of this thread and also wrong.

[Northern Seleucia]

I don't care what Bellingcat says. Anything they say will be tainted by the fact that they are admitted recipients of US government support. They will never contradict the official story in the United States.

Can you say the same about RT and Sputnik?

[Washington Resistance Army]

???

He openly identifies as a Marxist-Leninist or whatever goofy splinter movement he thinks is most based.

Didn't know. Honestly they don't use the language that other MLs use when defending Russia. They use language and arguments i'd expect more from MAGA and alt-right neo-fascists.

You're not wrong tbh. Says a lot about the groups that Russia attracts that the rhetoric is practically the same between the Nazis and self-proclaimed Marxists.

[Orostan]

I don't care what Bellingcat says. Anything they say will be tainted by the fact that they are admitted recipients of US government support. They will never contradict the official story in the United States.

Can you say the same about RT and Sputnik?

Yes. The only difference is that I think the Russian official story is more true than the American one. My problem with RT and Sputnik is that they cover for Putin's greatest mistakes which is following a strategy of limited war and not invading Ukraine in 2014. Putin has admitted that he made a mistake in trusting the west in 2014 and after the Minsk agreements. At this point Russia is trying to limit the war and limit escalation which is not what they should be doing. Putin should have simply declared formal war on the first day and done whatever was necessary to win as quickly as possible. The longer it goes on the better Russia and China's geopolitical position becomes, but the more dangerous this is for the world because the US is given more time to escalate the war.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Can you say the same about RT and Sputnik?

Yes. The only difference is that I think the Russian official story is more true than the American one. My problem with RT and Sputnik is that they cover for Putin's greatest mistakes which is following a strategy of limited war and not invading Ukraine in 2014. Putin has admitted that he made a mistake in trusting the west in 2014 and after the Minsk agreements. At this point Russia is trying to limit the war and limit escalation which is not what they should be doing. Putin should have simply declared formal war on the first day and done whatever was necessary to win as quickly as possible. The longer it goes on the better Russia and China's geopolitical position becomes, but the more dangerous this is for the world because the US is given more time to escalate the war.

Holy shit you really are living in a fantasy lol. Literally everything in this is false.

[Northern Seleucia]

Can you say the same about RT and Sputnik?

Yes. The only difference is that I think the Russian official story is more true than the American one. My problem with RT and Sputnik is that they cover for Putin's greatest mistakes which is following a strategy of limited war and not invading Ukraine in 2014. Putin has admitted that he made a mistake in trusting the west in 2014 and after the Minsk agreements. At this point Russia is trying to limit the war and limit escalation which is not what they should be doing. Putin should have simply declared formal war on the first day and done whatever was necessary to win as quickly as possible. The longer it goes on the better Russia and China's geopolitical position becomes, but the more dangerous this is for the world.

So although you admit it's tainted, you still believe Russia's official story more, which is, after all, what their news stories back?

[Archinstinct]

Didn't know. Honestly they don't use the language that other MLs use when defending Russia. They use language and arguments i'd expect more from MAGA and alt-right neo-fascists.

You're not wrong tbh. Says a lot about the groups that Russia attracts that the rhetoric is practically the same between the Nazis and self-proclaimed Marxists.

I just got my third warning in two years in the american politics thread for calling out a marxist spewing drivel. Got attacked by 3-5 other marxists, got insults hurled at me and i'm pretty sure a socialist that attacks russia in this thread implied i should kill myself in that other thread, but i'm going to be the only one getting a warning because NS loves socialists or some shit.

If orostan started using language used more commonly amongst tankies unironically supporting russia, they'd never have to worry about being ridiculed like they are.

[The Two Jerseys]

I don't care what Bellingcat says. Anything they say will be tainted by the fact that they are admitted recipients of US government support. They will never contradict the official story in the United States.

"Meanwhile, I will stand and applaud those brave Channel One Russia journalists who, of their own free will and without any instructions whatsoever from the Kremlin, lied to cover up the fact that their country murdered 298 people in cold blood, for they are true patriots who love their country, and merely committed an error in judgment and totally didn't get caught lying thereby forcing the government to issue a contradictory 'official' statement to cover up the fact that they got caught lying!"

[Northern Seleucia]

Possible Ukrainian Counterattack coming in Bakhmut?

[Orostan]

Yes. The only difference is that I think the Russian official story is more true than the American one. My problem with RT and Sputnik is that they cover for Putin's greatest mistakes which is following a strategy of limited war and not invading Ukraine in 2014. Putin has admitted that he made a mistake in trusting the west in 2014 and after the Minsk agreements. At this point Russia is trying to limit the war and limit escalation which is not what they should be doing. Putin should have simply declared formal war on the first day and done whatever was necessary to win as quickly as possible. The longer it goes on the better Russia and China's geopolitical position becomes, but the more dangerous this is for the world.

So although you admit it's tainted, you still believe Russia's official story more, which is, after all, what their news stories back?

Yes, I think there are a large number of independent sources which can verify a lot of what RT for example says. I am not a regular reader of Sputnik, RT, or other Russian state or non-state news services.

I don't care what Bellingcat says. Anything they say will be tainted by the fact that they are admitted recipients of US government support. They will never contradict the official story in the United States.

"Meanwhile, I will stand and applaud those brave Channel One Russia journalists who, of their own free will and without any instructions whatsoever from the Kremlin, lied to cover up the fact that their country murdered 298 people in cold blood, for they are true patriots who love their country, and merely committed an error in judgment and totally didn't get caught lying thereby forcing the government to issue a contradictory 'official' statement to cover up the fact that they got caught lying!"

"Meanwhile, I will stand and applaud those brave CNN journalists who, of their own free will and without any instructions whatsoever from the White House, lied to cover up the fact that their country murdered one million Iraqis in cold blood, for they are true patriots who love their country, and merely committed an error in judgment and totally didn't get caught lying thereby forcing the government to claim that they only made an innocent mistake!"

come the fuck on. I called the journalists idiots already. This is totally irrelevant to the subject of the discussion.

You're not wrong tbh. Says a lot about the groups that Russia attracts that the rhetoric is practically the same between the Nazis and self-proclaimed Marxists.

I just got my third warning in two years in the american politics thread for calling out a marxist spewing drivel. Got attacked by 3-5 other marxists, got insults hurled at me and i'm pretty sure a socialist that attacks russia in this thread implied i should kill myself in that other thread, but i'm going to be the only one getting a warning because NS loves socialists or some shit.

If orostan started using language used more commonly amongst tankies unironically supporting russia, they'd never have to worry about being ridiculed like they are.

I dislike most "Communists" on this website.

[Northern Seleucia]

So although you admit it's tainted, you still believe Russia's official story more, which is, after all, what their news stories back?

Yes, I think there are a large number of independent sources which can verify a lot of what RT for example says. I am not a regular reader of Sputnik, RT, or other Russian state or non-state news services.

Show me some.

[The Two Jerseys]

"Meanwhile, I will stand and applaud those brave Channel One Russia journalists who, of their own free will and without any instructions whatsoever from the Kremlin, lied to cover up the fact that their country murdered 298 people in cold blood, for they are true patriots who love their country, and merely committed an error in judgment and totally didn't get caught lying thereby forcing the government to issue a contradictory 'official' statement to cover up the fact that they got caught lying!"

"Meanwhile, I will stand and applaud those brave CNN journalists who, of their own free will and without any instructions whatsoever from the White House, lied to cover up the fact that their country murdered one million Iraqis in cold blood, for they are true patriots who love their country, and merely committed an error in judgment and totally didn't get caught lying thereby forcing the government to claim that they only made an innocent mistake!"

come the fuck on. I called the journalists idiots already. This is totally irrelevant to the subject of the discussion.

"AnD yOu ArE lYnChInG nEgRoEs!"

[Tarsonis]

Are you citing the income from governments figure? I'm more concerned with "Income from other non-profit organizations" which would include the NED, as it is technically a private non-profit.

1. There's more to that post you're ignoring, unsurprisingly.

2. fine. 820k euros against a 2.2 million euro budget. how much did the NED actually give? Further, when you break down Greyzones flags here, there isn't much to go on beyond proximity. It makes many claims of these organizations being "clandestine fronts" but all the proof says anything but. several are clearly shady corporations trying to exploit government contracts for profit, but fronts? Not well established. at the end of it all, your claim that whatever the fuck site we're arguing about is a Western spy outlet is flimsy at best.


the funny part is, it doesn't matter. You confirmed the articles in question as true. By trying to defend the actions instead of dismiss the whole premise as false, you confirmed such reports did, in fact, happen. I don't need the CIA to connect the dots for me on that one.

[Orostan]

Yes, I think there are a large number of independent sources which can verify a lot of what RT for example says. I am not a regular reader of Sputnik, RT, or other Russian state or non-state news services.

Show me some.

I did and you dismissed the source because you disagree with it and it has a bad and biased wikipedia page.

[Northern Seleucia]

"Meanwhile, I will stand and applaud those brave CNN journalists who, of their own free will and without any instructions whatsoever from the White House, lied to cover up the fact that their country murdered one million Iraqis in cold blood, for they are true patriots who love their country, and merely committed an error in judgment and totally didn't get caught lying thereby forcing the government to claim that they only made an innocent mistake!"

come the fuck on. I called the journalists idiots already. This is totally irrelevant to the subject of the discussion.

"AnD yOu ArE lYnChInG nEgRoEs!"

А у вас негров линчуют

[Tarsonis]

I don't care what Bellingcat says. Anything they say will be tainted by the fact that they are admitted recipients of US government support. They will never contradict the official story in the United States.

Again, there's no functional difference between idolizing Stalin and idolizing Hitler. Either way you're idolizing a genocidal shit stain on human history.

irrelevant to the subject of this thread and also wrong.

We're aware you deny genocide when it suits you.

[Northern Seleucia]

Show me some.

I did and you dismissed the source because you disagree with it and it has a bad and biased wikipedia page.

Nah, mate, I showed you the reasons why. Blumenthal is not credible in the slightest. He even spewed COVID-19 bullshit.
I read Sputnik and RT on the regular, in the original language. It's a load of shit, nothing more.

[Tarsonis]

Can you say the same about RT and Sputnik?

Yes. The only difference is that I think the Russian official story is more true than the American one. My problem with RT and Sputnik is that they cover for Putin's greatest mistakes which is following a strategy of limited war and not invading Ukraine in 2014. Putin has admitted that he made a mistake in trusting the west in 2014 and after the Minsk agreements. At this point Russia is trying to limit the war and limit escalation which is not what they should be doing. Putin should have simply declared formal war on the first day and done whatever was necessary to win as quickly as possible. The longer it goes on the better Russia and China's geopolitical position becomes, but the more dangerous this is for the world because the US is given more time to escalate the war.

You would think that. Your view isn't grounded in reason, it's grounded in tribalism. That's why you can believe such obvious nonsense such as this. Groucho Marx is indeed a much better role model than Karl, but "who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes" was satirical

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

So, full invasion of Ukraine in 2014, and to be clear this would have been right after a popular uprising in Kyiv threw the pro-Russian president there out of office and the Russian-backed separatists in the Donbas just finished pissing off half of Europe by killing 300 EU citizens?

Well, I guess from the Russian perspective doing Afghanistan II: Steppe boogaloo in 2014 would technically be less embarassing than how the 2022 invasion IRL is going for them.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

You're not wrong tbh. Says a lot about the groups that Russia attracts that the rhetoric is practically the same between the Nazis and self-proclaimed Marxists.

I just got my third warning in two years in the american politics thread for calling out a marxist spewing drivel. Got attacked by 3-5 other marxists, got insults hurled at me and i'm pretty sure a socialist that attacks russia in this thread implied i should kill myself in that other thread, but i'm going to be the only one getting a warning because NS loves socialists or some shit.

If orostan started using language used more commonly amongst tankies unironically supporting russia, they'd never have to worry about being ridiculed like they are.

Yes, yes. You can go back to your "twitter trolling sessions" now.

[Rhodesia-South Africa]

Rhodesia-South Africa is not taking sides in this war. Our leader claims he is impartial because he is in support for peace, but in reality, it is to covertly sell weapons to both Russia and Ukraine and profit off of both nations. I won’t be spending any more time on this thread since most of the nations on here are either Marxist Leninists or crypto-fascists who simp for Putin. At least the argument above is

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

I dislike most "Communists" on this website.

The feeling is mutual, considering you simp for a pseudo-fascistic state capitalist dictatorship under the guise of "opposing imperialism" when you still support it. Yes, Ukraine is undoubtedly a war of two imperialist powers- fighting for control over Ukraine, but if you cared so much about imperialism then you would have long ago stated that you were neutral in this conflict or at least, you know- given support to the country being invaded rather than the country invading it.
Nobody takes you seriously when you describe yourself as a "Marxist-Leninist". It's nothing but aesthetic to you.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

Rhodesia-South Africa is not taking sides in this war. Our leader claims he is impartial because he is in support for peace, but in reality, it is to covertly sell weapons to both Russia and Ukraine and profit off of both nations

I wonder who THIS could be?

[Washington Resistance Army]

I dislike most "Communists" on this website.

The feeling is mutual, considering you simp for a pseudo-fascistic state capitalist dictatorship under the guise of "opposing imperialism" when you still support it. Yes, Ukraine is undoubtedly a war of two imperialist powers- fighting for control over Ukraine, but if you cared so much about imperialism then you would have long ago stated that you were neutral in this conflict or at least, you know- given support to the country being invaded rather than the country invading it.

^^^^^

This is the proper position to hold regarding Ukraine. Yes, NATO and friends are involved solely because it advances their interests and not because they're altruistic, but Russia in no way is fighting an anti-imperialist war. It's desperately clinging to the idea that it's still a relevant world power that can maintain its own sphere of influence and expand its borders at will. NATO and US forpol are bad, but they're not the ones turning Ukraine into rubble. Iraq, Libya and Ukraine were and are all unjustifiable acts of imperialism, if you start trying to justify any of them you lose any sense of coherency and cannot meaningfully call yourself an anti-imperialist.

[Northern Seleucia]

Rhodesia-South Africa is not taking sides in this war. Our leader claims he is impartial because he is in support for peace, but in reality, it is to covertly sell weapons to both Russia and Ukraine and profit off of both nations

I wonder who THIS could be?

He's the surprise guest.