The Ukrainian War V: Tanks For The Memories

[The Two Jerseys]

I do know that claiming that a Ukrainian jet shot down a Malaysian airliner, releasing "satellite photos" to prove it, changing your story to "a Ukrainian SAM launcher shot it down" when your original story fell apart, releasing "satellite photos" to prove it, and getting caught lying again is the official position of the Russian government...

You are not reading what I am saying. A media outlet claimed that. Not the Russian government. The Russian MoD said something much more reasonable and totally different. They never claimed anything about the satellite image. Besides that, this discussion isn't relevant to anything. You people are just changing the subject because I've 100% got you on Bellingcat being CIA.

*cough* Russian MoD lied too *cough*

[Washington Resistance Army]

Dropping a friendly reminder that the Russians shot down MH-17 and any claims to the contrary are as false as saying gravity doesn't exist.

[Tarsonis]

I do know that claiming that a Ukrainian jet shot down a Malaysian airliner, releasing "satellite photos" to prove it, changing your story to "a Ukrainian SAM launcher shot it down" when your original story fell apart, releasing "satellite photos" to prove it, and getting caught lying again is the official position of the Russian government...

You are not reading what I am saying. A media outlet claimed that. Not the Russian government. The Russian MoD said something much more reasonable and totally different. They never claimed anything about the satellite image.

Russia media is controlled by the Russian government. That'd be like saying the US Press Secretary said something, not the US Government.

plus your defense here is laughably pathetic, because your response to Russia being caught in a bold face lie, is to say "no that was the media's lie. The government had a different lie."

Besides that, this discussion isn't relevant to anything. You people are just changing the subject because I've 100% got you on Bellingcat being CIA.

Again, you started the conversation, not us. And coincidentally, you're the one trying to change the conversation, not us.

[The Two Jerseys]

You are not reading what I am saying. A media outlet claimed that. Not the Russian government. The Russian MoD said something much more reasonable and totally different. They never claimed anything about the satellite image.

Russia media is controlled by the Russian government. That'd be like saying the Press Secretary said something, not the government.

plus your defense here is laughably pathetic, because your response to Russia being caught in a bold face lie, is to say "no that was the media's lie. The government had a different lie."

And then the official government-released satellite photos were also proven to be fakes...

[Orostan]

Not an ex. His marriage with fascism is very stable. they just bought a timeshare in Moscow.

Oh Orostan used to shill for Mussolini and then got infatuated with a different sort of fascism... which is why he's here wasting all our time.

What the fuck are you talking about?

You are not reading what I am saying. A media outlet claimed that. Not the Russian government. The Russian MoD said something much more reasonable and totally different. They never claimed anything about the satellite image.

Russia media is controlled by the Russian government. That'd be like saying the Press Secretary said something, not the government.

plus your defense here is laughably pathetic, because your response to Russia being caught in a bold face lie, is to say "no that was the media's lie. This is the government's lie."

Besides that, this discussion isn't relevant to anything. You people are just changing the subject because I've 100% got you on Bellingcat being CIA.

Again, you started the conversation, not us.

State media isn't the press secretary for a reason. State media is its own thing. Press secretaries and government statements are not made by idiot journalists, they are made my representatives of the government. This is a ridiculous argument.

based, based, based, based, based, based, based, based.

I don't even need to cite the Greyzone. I cited Bellingcat itself earlier. Are they not a good source? They're the ones saying that they are funded by the NED and European Union. Greyzone is just repeating their own statement.

Bellingcat:

Bellingcat does not solicit or accept funding and contributions directly from any national government. Bellingcat can solicit or accept contributions from international or intergovernmental institutions such as the European Commission or the United Nations. Bellingcat can accept or solicit funding that is distributed by a private foundation that accepts government funds, so long as it is independent from any national government. We will not allow any funding relationship to constrain us from criticising any bodies that provide funds, exposing any wrongdoing in which said bodies may be involved or impact our editorial independence.
You can review our full fundraising policy here.

https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/ ... t-2021.pdf

Page 35. You cannot ignore this. Admit Bellingcat is backed by western governments.

[Washington-Columbia]

You sourced The Grayzone, mate, edited by Max Blumenthal, who has repeatedly been exposed as a supporter of Russia, conspiracy theorist, especially on the COVID-19 pandemic, supporter of Assad, appeared on Sputnik and RT, as well as Tucker Carlson's show on Fox, falsely claimed the Mariupol Theater Airstrike was Azov's doing, denied Uyghur oppression, blamed rebels for Assad's chemical attacks,[url] and more. You used a [url=https://adfontesmedia.com/grayzone-bias-reliability/]source that is seen as unreliable, far-left and biased, and rather controversial.

Therefore I have no reason to take your source seriously, and can safely discredit your claim.

Carry on.

based, based, based, based, based, based, based, based.

I don't even need to cite the Greyzone. I cited Bellingcat itself earlier. Are they not a good source? They're the ones saying that they are funded by the NED and European Union. Greyzone is just repeating their own statement.

Phak your "based." I have seen it used to label bigots and racists on the internet and it has been soiled for me. Besides, YOU DON'T EVEN TRY TO LABEL ANY OF THEM WHY AS BASED. I understand that this is a silly website, but just saying something in one word doesn't do it justice.

Besides, would it be "based" if it was America doing it? Would it be based if it was more American, like supporting Pinochet, denying the genocide of Native Americans, appearing on state-run networks or blaming Iraq for bombings against children during the War in Iraq?

[Northern Seleucia]

(Image)
https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/ ... t-2021.pdf

Page 35. You cannot ignore this. Admit Bellingcat is backed by western governments.

Lmao mate we already pointed it out.
Did you fucking read?

[Orostan]

based, based, based, based, based, based, based, based.

I don't even need to cite the Greyzone. I cited Bellingcat itself earlier. Are they not a good source? They're the ones saying that they are funded by the NED and European Union. Greyzone is just repeating their own statement.

Phak your "based." I have seen it used to label bigots and racists on the internet and it has been soiled for me. Besides, YOU DON'T EVEN TRY TO LABEL ANY OF THEM WHY AS BASED. I understand that this is a silly website, but just saying something in one word doesn't do it justice.

Besides, would it be "based" if it was America doing it? Would it be based if it was more American, like supporting Pinochet, denying the genocide of Native Americans, appearing on state-run networks or blaming Iraq for bombings against children during the War in Iraq?

Selucia is just repeating a bunch of garbage without actually addressing any substance of the article I cited. I agree with Blumenthal about most of those issues but they're not the subject of this thread. This argument began when someone tried to cite Bellingcat as a source. Without any ability to actually challenge me on the points I'm making people are going after my own source in an unrelated way.

[Supreme Algerstonia]

i would trust greyzone any day over western propaganda made by the same people that lied about iraq

[Orostan]

(Image)
https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/ ... t-2021.pdf

Page 35. You cannot ignore this. Admit Bellingcat is backed by western governments.

Lmao mate we already pointed it out.
Did you fucking read?

If Greyzone accepted Russian foundation money and said the same thing you'd denounce that disclaimer as obvious bullshit.

[Northern Seleucia]

Phak your "based." I have seen it used to label bigots and racists on the internet and it has been soiled for me. Besides, YOU DON'T EVEN TRY TO LABEL ANY OF THEM WHY AS BASED. I understand that this is a silly website, but just saying something in one word doesn't do it justice.

Besides, would it be "based" if it was America doing it? Would it be based if it was more American, like supporting Pinochet, denying the genocide of Native Americans, appearing on state-run networks or blaming Iraq for bombings against children during the War in Iraq?

Selucia is just repeating a bunch of garbage without actually addressing any substance of the article I cited. I agree with Blumenthal about most of those issues but they're not the subject of this thread. This argument began when someone tried to cite Bellingcat as a source. Without any ability to actually challenge me on the points I'm making people are going after my own source in an unrelated way.

I addressed the fact that Bellingcat claimed it was indirectly funded by the E.U and is not influenced. You refused to acknowledge it, because it destroys your narrative that the CIA funds it.

[Orostan]

Selucia is just repeating a bunch of garbage without actually addressing any substance of the article I cited. I agree with Blumenthal about most of those issues but they're not the subject of this thread. This argument began when someone tried to cite Bellingcat as a source. Without any ability to actually challenge me on the points I'm making people are going after my own source in an unrelated way.

I addressed the fact that Bellingcat claimed it was indirectly funded by the E.U and is not influenced. You refused to acknowledge it, because it destroys your narrative that the CIA funds it.

The CIA runs the NED which funds Bellingcat. You can't seriously claim this funding does not have an effect on what Bellingcat produces.

[Northern Seleucia]

I addressed the fact that Bellingcat claimed it was indirectly funded by the E.U and is not influenced. You refused to acknowledge it, because it destroys your narrative that the CIA funds it.

The CIA runs the NED which funds Bellingcat. You can't seriously claim this funding does not have an effect on what Bellingcat produces.

NED is a non-profit organization, mate.

Lmao mate we already pointed it out.
Did you fucking read?

If Greyzone accepted Russian foundation money and said the same thing you'd denounce that disclaimer as obvious bullshit.

Grayzone is already noncredible as it is. No need to embarrass Blumenthal more.

[Archinstinct]

I addressed the fact that Bellingcat claimed it was indirectly funded by the E.U and is not influenced. You refused to acknowledge it, because it destroys your narrative that the CIA funds it.

The CIA runs the NED which funds Bellingcat. You can't seriously claim this funding does not have an effect on what Bellingcat produces.

Orostan, you should honestly drop your current act and pick up a hammer and sickle. It would get you a lot more support on this website just by virtue of the mask you wear.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The CIA runs the NED which funds Bellingcat. You can't seriously claim this funding does not have an effect on what Bellingcat produces.

Orostan, you should honestly drop your current act and pick up a hammer and sickle. It would get you a lot more support on this website just by virtue of the mask you wear.

???

He openly identifies as a Marxist-Leninist or whatever goofy splinter movement he thinks is most based.

[Orostan]

The CIA runs the NED which funds Bellingcat. You can't seriously claim this funding does not have an effect on what Bellingcat produces.

Orostan, you should honestly drop your current act and pick up a hammer and sickle. It would get you a lot more support on this website just by virtue of the mask you wear.

I'm openly a Marxist. I quote Stalin in my signature.

[The Two Jerseys]

Orostan: "Bellingcat receives money that can eventually be traced back to Western governments, so literally everything they say is propaganda!"

Also Orostan: "Russian state media published bogus satellite photos showing a Ukrainian jet shooting down MH17 only because they were in a rush to get a scoop on a story, they didn't have any ulterior motives!"

[Washington Resistance Army]

Orostan: "Bellingcat receives money that can eventually be traced back to Western governments, so literally everything they say is propaganda!"

Also Orostan: "Russian state media published bogus satellite photos showing a Ukrainian jet shooting down MH17 only because they were in a rush to get a scoop on a story, they didn't have any ulterior motives!"

My absolute favorite thing about that debacle is, for whatever utterly asinine reason, they chose a ground attack aircraft whose maximum service ceiling is something like 20,000 feet below where MH-17 was flying at the time of the shootdown. Like ignore the fact that we have the Russian BUK on video leaving the area and all that, the claim that an Su-25 shot it down is just hilarious. What's next, A-10s dogfighting?

[Orostan]

Orostan: "Bellingcat receives money that can eventually be traced back to Western governments, so literally everything they say is propaganda!"

Also Orostan: "Russian state media published bogus satellite photos showing a Ukrainian jet shooting down MH17 only because they were in a rush to get a scoop on a story, they didn't have any ulterior motives!"

Media is going to jump to defend its country by default. If the Russian government wanted to release information through state media they'd do it with material that supports the MoD statement. This is so obviously a mistake by the media, especially because it was contradicted by the government later.

[Tarsonis]

Oh Orostan used to shill for Mussolini and then got infatuated with a different sort of fascism... which is why he's here wasting all our time.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Russia media is controlled by the Russian government. That'd be like saying the Press Secretary said something, not the government.

plus your defense here is laughably pathetic, because your response to Russia being caught in a bold face lie, is to say "no that was the media's lie. This is the government's lie."




Again, you started the conversation, not us.

State media isn't the press secretary for a reason. State media is its own thing.

No it isn't. It's state owned and operated, and subject to massive internal censorship.

Press secretaries and government statements are not made by idiot journalists, they are made my representatives of the government. This is a ridiculous argument.

Those "journalists" and that's a charitable characterization, are the government. their sole purpose is to spread government propaganda. You only call it ridiculous because your whole paradigm is such obvious on its face bullshit that you have to be such willfully ignorant of this fact, as a 12 year old who doesn't want to give up believing in Santa Clause is to his non-existence.

(Image)
https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/ ... t-2021.pdf

Page 35. You cannot ignore this. Admit Bellingcat is backed by western governments.

[/quote]

16.500 euros out of a 2.2 million euro operating budget. oh yeah,. "backed"

[Archinstinct]

Orostan, you should honestly drop your current act and pick up a hammer and sickle. It would get you a lot more support on this website just by virtue of the mask you wear.

???

He openly identifies as a Marxist-Leninist or whatever goofy splinter movement he thinks is most based.

Didn't know. Honestly they don't use the language that other MLs use when defending Russia. They use language and arguments i'd expect more from MAGA and alt-right neo-fascists.

[Tarsonis]

Orostan, you should honestly drop your current act and pick up a hammer and sickle. It would get you a lot more support on this website just by virtue of the mask you wear.

I'm openly a Marxist. I quote Stalin in my signature.

Again, there's no functional difference between idolizing Stalin and idolizing Hitler. Either way you're idolizing a genocidal shit stain on human history.

[The Two Jerseys]

Orostan: "Bellingcat receives money that can eventually be traced back to Western governments, so literally everything they say is propaganda!"

Also Orostan: "Russian state media published bogus satellite photos showing a Ukrainian jet shooting down MH17 only because they were in a rush to get a scoop on a story, they didn't have any ulterior motives!"

Media is going to jump to defend its country by default. If the Russian government wanted to release information through state media they'd do it with material that supports the MoD statement. This is so obviously a mistake by the media, especially because it was contradicted by the government later.

*cough* Russian MoD lied too *cough*

[Orostan]

What the fuck are you talking about?


State media isn't the press secretary for a reason. State media is its own thing. [/quote
No it isn't. It's state owned and operated, and subject to massive internal censorship.


Those "journalists" and that's a charitable characterization, are the government. their sole purpose is to spread government propaganda. You only call it ridiculous because your whole paradigm is such obvious on its face bullshit that you have to be such willfully ignorant of this fact, as a 12 year old who doesn't want to give up believing in Santa Clause is to his non-existence.

16.500 euros out of a 2.2 million euro operating budget. oh yeah,. "backed"

Are you citing the income from governments figure? I'm more concerned with "Income from other non-profit organizations" which would include the NED, as it is technically a private non-profit.

???

He openly identifies as a Marxist-Leninist or whatever goofy splinter movement he thinks is most based.

Didn't know. Honestly they don't use the language that other MLs use when defending Russia. They use language and arguments i'd expect more from MAGA and alt-right neo-fascists.

bruh

[Northern Seleucia]

The CIA runs the NED which funds Bellingcat. You can't seriously claim this funding does not have an effect on what Bellingcat produces.

Orostan, you should honestly drop your current act and pick up a hammer and sickle. It would get you a lot more support on this website just by virtue of the mask you wear.

He is and ML.