The Ukrainian War V: Tanks For The Memories

[Herador]

>talks shit about sources
>literally sources a rag
It's poetic, really.

>talks shit
>has to condemn reporting because he dislikes the outlet even though every claim in the article can be verified by the reader and is indisputably true

It's poetic, really.

Reusing my format is a lame move, my guy. Try harder.

[Tarsonis]

Nothing quite like using Gray Zone as your source.

(Image)

>he cited wikipedia
Wikipedia is famously neutral and not edited by the government.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-secu ... 6020070816

Grayzone is Kremlin 5th campist propaganda. Everything it produces is fake, when it's not.

It's not me who says the NED and Open Society foundation funds Bellingcat. Bellingcat says this. You can look on their site at their most recent financial statements. They proudly advertise all of this. It's public information.

As I said, it's fake even when it's not. It might have been true, but since greyzone posted it, it's false. I got random Twitter feeds to back me up. (Let me know when you catch on to the bit.)

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

It's very funny watching this ex-fascist batting at his CIA phantoms tbh...

Not an ex. His marriage with fascism is very stable. they just bought a timeshare in Moscow.

Oh Orostan used to shill for Mussolini and then got infatuated with a different sort of fascism... which is why he's here wasting all our time.

[The Two Jerseys]

Why yes, I do.

And apparently after they got caught lying about that, Russia then miraculously "found" satellite photos of a Ukrainian Buk launcher shooting down MH17...

This is Russian state TV making a stupid mistake and then the Russian MoD giving their actual position. Journalists do stupid shit all the time.

Bellingcat? Western propaganda, of course. *nods*

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/10/09/bell ... sts-syria/

It's literally funded by the NED, which is a front for the CIA. Not to mention its funding from the open society foundation among other groups.

"Stupid mistake" my ass.

They lied, got caught, and lied again.

[Tarsonis]

>talks shit about sources
>literally sources a rag
It's poetic, really.

>talks shit
>has to condemn reporting because he dislikes the outlet even though every claim in the article can be verified by the reader and is indisputably true

It's poetic, really.

That is an accurate accounting of your presence here. well done.

[Necroghastia]

>talks shit about sources
>literally sources a rag
It's poetic, really.

>talks shit
>has to condemn reporting because he dislikes the outlet even though every claim in the article can be verified by the reader and is indisputably true

It's poetic, really.

if it can be verified then you should have another source, no?

[Orostan]

It's very funny watching this ex-fascist batting at his CIA phantoms tbh...

Who are you talking about? Are you accusing me of being an ex-fascist?

I am an American and I like my country and think there are many positive parts of its political tradition. Imperialism is alien to what makes America unique in my view.

I do think that the Untied States is having problems with its international reputation outside of the Western information bubble. India is making deals to trade outside the dollar system with Russia. Russia and China are closer in relations than at any point since the Sino-Soviet split. Even American vassal states like Saudi Arabia are making deals with China now, and I'm convinced the decline of international American influence will only accelerate.

In many ways the time period we are in is similar to the lead up to a world war. Politicians in the United States take fear mongering about Russia and China to the next level and the United States continues to escalate tensions with all of its enemies. It's extremely worrying.

Well, India is interesting because it has loved Russia since its independence, even similar moments in the history of the countries were searched for. He was not the only one who communicated with the Indian, one of Lenin's nah compares with Gandhi and the first Indo-Pakistani war with the collapse of the USSR. They have traditionally cooperated on two fronts, with America against China and with Russia in tribute to allied relations. If Russia's policy course did not put a turn in the direction of China, India could be even more tied to Russia, but it will not be tied, because there are eternal conflicts with China, as well as with Pakistan. Nothing has changed globally here, the same two chairs, China...Well, I agree here, perhaps the PRC's social circle is being quietly cut back to the "sanitary cordon", the AUKUS block, which pushes them to look for allies for a more decisive struggle and create their own pole of strength. Well, the threat of the fall of the unipolar system (US hegemony) is in principle close, the crisis of the 90s that led to unipolarity is now nearing its end. It is not known what the layouts will be based on the results. But the situation is as alarming as before any world imperialist war.

I agree. I think India will have to put itself in the anti-west camp. If American dependencies like Saudi Arabia are breaking with the United States then countries like India is probably prepared to set aside its problems with China for the moment rather than go down with the sinking US ship.

[Rusozak]

Russia: *photoshops "satellite photo" showing a "Ukrainian" Su-25 that can't reach airliner cruising altitudes shooting down a "Malaysian" Boeing 777 with a missile that it can't carry just to try and cover up the fact that they shot down an airliner, and when a cursory investigation is enough to show that the aircraft images aren't to scale and were cribbed from a Google search they suddenly change their official story to "okay, Ukraine shot it down with a SAM!"*

Also Russia: "That news story portraying Russia negatively is fake! You stupid Westerners believe any lies the media tells you!"

Do you have evidence Russia actually did that? I find that difficult to believe.

I'm sure you find many things difficult to believe. It's a common theme among neo-Nazis.

[Northern Seleucia]

Nothing quite like using Gray Zone as your source.

(Image)

>he cited wikipedia
Wikipedia is famously neutral and not edited by the government.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-secu ... 6020070816

Grayzone is Kremlin 5th campist propaganda. Everything it produces is fake, when it's not.

It's not me who says the NED and Open Society foundation funds Bellingcat. Bellingcat says this. You can look on their site at their most recent financial statements. They proudly advertise all of this. It's public information.

Since when did you give a shit about government editing? As if you don't swallow Kremlin propaganda

[Necroghastia]

>he cited wikipedia
Wikipedia is famously neutral and not edited by the government.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-secu ... 6020070816


It's not me who says the NED and Open Society foundation funds Bellingcat. Bellingcat says this. You can look on their site at their most recent financial statements. They proudly advertise all of this. It's public information.

Since when did you give a shit about government editing? As if you don't swallow Kremlim propaganda

It's different when the Kremlin does it, only Western governments can make propaganda because that's how I define that.

[Orostan]

>talks shit
>has to condemn reporting because he dislikes the outlet even though every claim in the article can be verified by the reader and is indisputably true

It's poetic, really.

if it can be verified then you should have another source, no?

https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/ ... t-2021.pdf
Scroll to page 35.

This is Russian state TV making a stupid mistake and then the Russian MoD giving their actual position. Journalists do stupid shit all the time.


https://thegrayzone.com/2021/10/09/bell ... sts-syria/

It's literally funded by the NED, which is a front for the CIA. Not to mention its funding from the open society foundation among other groups.

"Stupid mistake" my ass.

They lied, got caught, and lied again.

Do you think every idiotic thing said by the American media is the official position of the US government?

>he cited wikipedia
Wikipedia is famously neutral and not edited by the government.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-secu ... 6020070816

I would reply with a response identical to this one but you'd probably tattle on me for trolling or something.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Why yes, I do.

And apparently after they got caught lying about that, Russia then miraculously "found" satellite photos of a Ukrainian Buk launcher shooting down MH17...

This is Russian state TV making a stupid mistake and then the Russian MoD giving their actual position. Journalists do stupid shit all the time.

State media serving tyrannies don't make "stupid mistakes".
They lie. Like how they tried to pretend that Chernobyl No. 4 hadn't scattered itself across the Ukrainian countryside... or how PRC's media organs pretended for 30 years that a hundred thousand people didn't drown.

[The Two Jerseys]

>he cited wikipedia
Wikipedia is famously neutral and not edited by the government.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-secu ... 6020070816


It's not me who says the NED and Open Society foundation funds Bellingcat. Bellingcat says this. You can look on their site at their most recent financial statements. They proudly advertise all of this. It's public information.

Since when did you give a shit about government editing? As if you don't swallow Kremlim propaganda

You silly billy, only the corrupt West that produces propaganda, everything the Kremlin says is the honest truth!

[Orostan]

>he cited wikipedia
Wikipedia is famously neutral and not edited by the government.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-secu ... 6020070816


It's not me who says the NED and Open Society foundation funds Bellingcat. Bellingcat says this. You can look on their site at their most recent financial statements. They proudly advertise all of this. It's public information.

Since when did you give a shit about government editing? As if you don't swallow Kremlin propaganda

You haven't addressed a single fact I have brought up. You are trying to change the subject from Bellingcat being funded by the American government and NGOs to vauge accusations that I am a kReMlIn PrOpAgAnDiSt.

Do you have evidence Russia actually did that? I find that difficult to believe.

I'm sure you find many things difficult to believe. It's a common theme among neo-Nazis.

I'm not the one supporting military aid to the Azov battalion.

[Tarsonis]

Since when did you give a shit about government editing? As if you don't swallow Kremlin propaganda

You haven't addressed a single fact I have brought up. You are trying to change the subject from Bellingcat being funded by the American government and NGOs to vauge accusations that I am a kReMlIn PrOpAgAnDiSt.

I'm sure you find many things difficult to believe. It's a common theme among neo-Nazis.

I'm not the one supporting military aid to the Azov battalion.

Nothing fascists hate more than other fascists. (Never mind that azov was a pretty much obliterated.)

[Tarsonis]

if it can be verified then you should have another source, no?

https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/ ... t-2021.pdf
Scroll to page 35.

"Stupid mistake" my ass.

They lied, got caught, and lied again.

Do you think every idiotic thing said by the American media is the official position of the US government?

America has free and independent press. Russia, not so much. This response is laughably in bad faith, because you know that, and you know that we know you know that.

I would reply with a response identical to this one but you'd probably tattle on me for trolling or something.

Wooosh

[Orostan]

This is Russian state TV making a stupid mistake and then the Russian MoD giving their actual position. Journalists do stupid shit all the time.

State media serving tyrannies don't make "stupid mistakes".
They lie. Like how they tried to pretend that Chernobyl No. 4 hadn't scattered itself across the Ukrainian countryside... or how PRC's media organs pretended for 30 years that a hundred thousand people didn't drown.

This is utterly irrelevant to the subject of this thread. Address my point with something substantial. Russian media tried to get ahead of a story and posted a fake image from the internet. The Russian MoD made an official statement later. If the Russian government wanted to claim that image was real they would have done it in the MoD statement, they did not because that was never the position of the Russian government.

[Necroghastia]

Since when did you give a shit about government editing? As if you don't swallow Kremlin propaganda

You haven't addressed a single fact I have brought up. You are trying to change the subject from Bellingcat being funded by the American government and NGOs to vauge accusations that I am a kReMlIn PrOpAgAnDiSt.

oh honey i assure you the accusations aren't vague

I'm sure you find many things difficult to believe. It's a common theme among neo-Nazis.

I'm not the one supporting military aid to the Azov battalion.

I doubt anyone here does. Especially considering they're dead.

[The Two Jerseys]

"Stupid mistake" my ass.

They lied, got caught, and lied again.

Do you think every idiotic thing said by the American media is the official position of the US government?

I do know that claiming that a Ukrainian jet shot down a Malaysian airliner, releasing "satellite photos" to prove it, changing your story to "a Ukrainian SAM launcher shot it down" when your original story fell apart, releasing "satellite photos" to prove it, and getting caught lying again is the official position of the Russian government...

[Orostan]

https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/ ... t-2021.pdf
Scroll to page 35.


Do you think every idiotic thing said by the American media is the official position of the US government?

America has free and independent press. Russia, not so much. This response is laughably in bad faith, because you know that, and you know that we know you know that.

I would reply with a response identical to this one but you'd probably tattle on me for trolling or something.

Wooosh

A free and independent press which mindlessly repeated every lie the US government invented to justify its actions. Come on.

1. This discussion is supposed to be about if Bellingcat is a credible source. It is not, and you are changing the subject to something more more vague which you grandstand about.

2. I'm glad you support Russia's denazification effort.

[Orostan]

Do you think every idiotic thing said by the American media is the official position of the US government?

I do know that claiming that a Ukrainian jet shot down a Malaysian airliner, releasing "satellite photos" to prove it, changing your story to "a Ukrainian SAM launcher shot it down" when your original story fell apart, releasing "satellite photos" to prove it, and getting caught lying again is the official position of the Russian government...

You are not reading what I am saying. A media outlet claimed that. Not the Russian government. The Russian MoD said something much more reasonable and totally different. They never claimed anything about the satellite image. Besides that, this discussion isn't relevant to anything. You people are just changing the subject because I've 100% got you on Bellingcat being CIA.

[Northern Seleucia]

Since when did you give a shit about government editing? As if you don't swallow Kremlin propaganda

You haven't addressed a single fact I have brought up. You are trying to change the subject from Bellingcat being funded by the American government and NGOs to vauge accusations that I am a kReMlIn PrOpAgAnDiSt.

You sourced The Grayzone, mate, edited by Max Blumenthal, who has repeatedly been exposed as a supporter of Russia, conspiracy theorist, especially on the COVID-19 pandemic, supporter of Assad, appeared on Sputnik and RT, as well as Tucker Carlson's show on Fox, falsely claimed the Mariupol Theater Airstrike was Azov's doing, denied Uyghur oppression, blamed rebels for Assad's chemical attacks, and more. You used a source that is seen as unreliable, far-left and biased, and rather controversial.

Therefore I have no reason to take your source seriously, and can safely discredit your claim.

Carry on.

[Orostan]

You haven't addressed a single fact I have brought up. You are trying to change the subject from Bellingcat being funded by the American government and NGOs to vauge accusations that I am a kReMlIn PrOpAgAnDiSt.

You sourced The Grayzone, mate, edited by Max Blumenthal, who has repeatedly been exposed as a supporter of Russia, conspiracy theorist, especially on the COVID-19 pandemic, supporter of Assad, appeared on Sputnik and RT, as well as Tucker Carlson's show on Fox, falsely claimed the Mariupol Theater Airstrike was Azov's doing, denied Uyghur oppression, blamed rebels for Assad's chemical attacks,[url] and more. You used a [url=https://adfontesmedia.com/grayzone-bias-reliability/]source that is seen as unreliable, far-left and biased, and rather controversial.

Therefore I have no reason to take your source seriously, and can safely discredit your claim.

Carry on.

based, based, based, based, based, based, based, based.

I don't even need to cite the Greyzone. I cited Bellingcat itself earlier. Are they not a good source? They're the ones saying that they are funded by the NED and European Union. Greyzone is just repeating their own statement.

[Tarsonis]

America has free and independent press. Russia, not so much. This response is laughably in bad faith, because you know that, and you know that we know you know that.




Wooosh

A free and independent press which mindlessly repeated every lie the US government invented to justify its actions. Come on.

.

as opposed to an overly state run press that the Russian government uses to spread every lie it uses to justify it's action. Come on.

1. This discussion is supposed to be about if Bellingcat is a credible source. It is not, and you are changing the subject to something more more vague which you grandstand about.

I haven't changed the subject to anything. you we're the one who brought up it being a credible source or not, not me. I know lying is pathological for you at this point, but you'd think you'd be better at it than to lie about something as easily disprovable as scroll back a page.

I haven't actually steered the conversation in any direction, only responded to you in the exact manner that you post here. Weirdly enough, even that was too difficult for you to grasp.

2. I'm glad you support Russia's denazification effort.

Since Azov is gone, they can start working on Herr Putin.

[Northern Seleucia]

You sourced The Grayzone, mate, edited by Max Blumenthal, who has repeatedly been exposed as a supporter of Russia, conspiracy theorist, especially on the COVID-19 pandemic, supporter of Assad, appeared on Sputnik and RT, as well as Tucker Carlson's show on Fox, falsely claimed the Mariupol Theater Airstrike was Azov's doing, denied Uyghur oppression, blamed rebels for Assad's chemical attacks,[url] and more. You used a [url=https://adfontesmedia.com/grayzone-bias-reliability/]source that is seen as unreliable, far-left and biased, and rather controversial.

Therefore I have no reason to take your source seriously, and can safely discredit your claim.

Carry on.

based, based, based, based, based, based, based, based.

I don't even need to cite the Greyzone. I cited Bellingcat itself earlier. Are they not a good source? They're the ones saying that they are funded by the NED and European Union. Greyzone is just repeating their own statement.

Bellingcat:

Bellingcat does not solicit or accept funding and contributions directly from any national government. Bellingcat can solicit or accept contributions from international or intergovernmental institutions such as the European Commission or the United Nations. Bellingcat can accept or solicit funding that is distributed by a private foundation that accepts government funds, so long as it is independent from any national government. We will not allow any funding relationship to constrain us from criticising any bodies that provide funds, exposing any wrongdoing in which said bodies may be involved or impact our editorial independence.
You can review our full fundraising policy here.