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The Ukrainian War V: Tanks For The Memories

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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:30 pm

Ukraine’s rocket campaign reliant on U.S. precision targeting, officials say. Relevant excerpts:
KYIV, Ukraine — Ukrainian officials say they require coordinates provided or confirmed by the United States and its allies for the vast majority of strikes using its advanced U.S.-provided rocket systems, a previously undisclosed practice that reveals a deeper and more operationally active role for the Pentagon in the war.

[...] One senior Ukrainian official said Ukrainian forces almost never launch the advanced weapons without specific coordinates provided by U.S. military personnel from a base elsewhere in Europe.

[...] A senior U.S. official — who like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue — acknowledged the key American role in the campaign and said that the targeting assistance served to ensure accuracy and conserve limited stores of ammunition for maximum effectiveness. The official said that Ukraine does not seek approval from the United States on what to strike and routinely targets Russian forces on their own with other weapons. The U.S. provides coordinates and precise targeting information solely in an advisory role, the official said.

[...] The senior Ukrainian official described the targeting process, generally: Ukrainian military personnel identify targets they want to hit, and in which location, and that information is then sent up to senior commanders, who then relay the request to U.S. partners for more accurate coordinates. The Americans do not always provide the requested coordinates, the official said, in which case the Ukrainian troops do not fire.

Ukraine could carry out strikes without U.S. help but because Kyiv doesn’t want to waste valuable ammunition and miss, it usually chooses not to strike without U.S. confirmation, the official said, adding that there are no complaints about the process.

[...] The head of the Ukrainian military’s missile forces and artillery training, Maj. Gen. Andriy Malinovsky, told The Washington Post in an interview in October that Ukraine’s Western allies had confirmed coordinates for targets ahead of the Kharkiv counteroffensive.

The partners had worked out a process, he said, with Ukraine receiving precise coordinates to ensure they wouldn’t miss their mark with multiple-launch rocket artillery systems as the rapid counteroffensive caught Russian forces unprepared. The targeting information also provided a workaround for when Russian signal-jamming prevented aerial drone reconnaissance on the battlefield, Malinovsky said.

“According to our maps and software, a point will have one set of coordinates,” Malinovsky said. “But when we give this target to partners for analysis, the coordinates are different. Why? Because the Americans and NATO countries have access to military satellites.”

“We’re all basically always online,” he added. “They immediately get us the coordinates and we then fire the MLRS right away.”
A third Ukrainian official confirmed that targeting all goes through an American installation on NATO soil and described the process as “very fast.” The Washington Post is withholding the name of the base at the request of U.S. officials who cited security concerns.
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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:38 pm

Northern Seleucia wrote:
Picairn wrote:Prigozhin says Wagner is no longer recruiting Russian prisoners. The Russian MoD will now put Wagner into penal battalions in the regular army. Prigozhin was outmaneuvered in the State Duma by Shoigu, the latter was able to push through laws that allow the Russian Army to recruit convicts as well.

The internal between Wagner and the Army continues...


Sounds like Wagner lost actually
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Free Algerstonia
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Postby Free Algerstonia » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:41 pm

Picairn wrote:Prigozhin says Wagner is no longer recruiting Russian prisoners. The Russian MoD will now put Wagner into penal battalions in the regular army. Prigozhin was outmaneuvered in the State Duma by Shoigu, the latter was able to push through laws that allow the Russian Army to recruit convicts as well.

this law should be challenged in court and delayed using every method imaginable, i strongly recommend the wagner group destroy the russian judicial system by having individual members sue en masse until the judicial system collapses and is forced to nullify the laws allowing the russophobic army to abduct prisoners
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Northern Seleucia
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Postby Northern Seleucia » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:42 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Northern Seleucia wrote:The internal between Wagner and the Army continues...


Sounds like Wagner lost actually

I hope so, Wagner's worse than the VSRF.



Wooo! 'Murica ftw!c :clap: :lol:
Seriously, that makes sense and I am not surprised
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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:42 pm

Fortisbellator wrote:
Adamede wrote:Yah the one teeny tiny little problem with that is that Ukraine is a fairly conservative society that’s overwhelmingly Eastern Orthodox as well.

Only difference I can tell is that Kirill is ex-KGB agent in the pocket of the Kremlin.

Zelensky dissolved the church, though, right?


no, they shuttered the UOC which is part of the ROC. The OCU is still operating freely
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Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
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Northern Seleucia
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Postby Northern Seleucia » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:48 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Fortisbellator wrote:Zelensky dissolved the church, though, right?


no, they shuttered the UOC which is part of the ROC. The OCU is still operating freely

This reminds me of that scene in Monty Python about the People's Front of Judaea and the Judaean People's Front, lol.
But in this case, yes, this is true. The Orthodox Church of Ukraine is an autocephalous Eastern Orthodox church whose canonical territory is all of Ukraine, whereas the Ukrainian Orthodox Church is an Eastern Orthodox church in Ukraine under the jurisdiction of the Russian Orthodox Church, which, if I'm not mistaken, places it under the Moscow Patriarchate. The UOC argues against their connection with Moscow, though.
Last edited by Northern Seleucia on Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:51 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Fortisbellator wrote:Zelensky dissolved the church, though, right?


no, they shuttered the UOC which is part of the ROC. The OCU is still operating freely

The UOC severed its ties to Moscow in March.
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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:54 pm

Jeriga wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:Russian advances in the area of Bakhmut and to the north are very dangerous, appears to be little stopping them.

Yeah, the operational goal of the Russian advance there is basically completed. Cutting the highway is important to taking the city. I'm still really confused about the importance of this town, though?

The importance for Ukraine is that the Russians massed a huge amount of troops there. For the Russians, it's really mostly that it stands in the way of control over Donbas.
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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:02 pm

Picairn wrote:Ukraine’s rocket campaign reliant on U.S. precision targeting, officials say. Relevant excerpts:
KYIV, Ukraine — Ukrainian officials say they require coordinates provided or confirmed by the United States and its allies for the vast majority of strikes using its advanced U.S.-provided rocket systems, a previously undisclosed practice that reveals a deeper and more operationally active role for the Pentagon in the war.

[...] One senior Ukrainian official said Ukrainian forces almost never launch the advanced weapons without specific coordinates provided by U.S. military personnel from a base elsewhere in Europe.

[...] A senior U.S. official — who like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue — acknowledged the key American role in the campaign and said that the targeting assistance served to ensure accuracy and conserve limited stores of ammunition for maximum effectiveness. The official said that Ukraine does not seek approval from the United States on what to strike and routinely targets Russian forces on their own with other weapons. The U.S. provides coordinates and precise targeting information solely in an advisory role, the official said.

[...] The senior Ukrainian official described the targeting process, generally: Ukrainian military personnel identify targets they want to hit, and in which location, and that information is then sent up to senior commanders, who then relay the request to U.S. partners for more accurate coordinates. The Americans do not always provide the requested coordinates, the official said, in which case the Ukrainian troops do not fire.

Ukraine could carry out strikes without U.S. help but because Kyiv doesn’t want to waste valuable ammunition and miss, it usually chooses not to strike without U.S. confirmation, the official said, adding that there are no complaints about the process.

[...] The head of the Ukrainian military’s missile forces and artillery training, Maj. Gen. Andriy Malinovsky, told The Washington Post in an interview in October that Ukraine’s Western allies had confirmed coordinates for targets ahead of the Kharkiv counteroffensive.

The partners had worked out a process, he said, with Ukraine receiving precise coordinates to ensure they wouldn’t miss their mark with multiple-launch rocket artillery systems as the rapid counteroffensive caught Russian forces unprepared. The targeting information also provided a workaround for when Russian signal-jamming prevented aerial drone reconnaissance on the battlefield, Malinovsky said.

“According to our maps and software, a point will have one set of coordinates,” Malinovsky said. “But when we give this target to partners for analysis, the coordinates are different. Why? Because the Americans and NATO countries have access to military satellites.”

“We’re all basically always online,” he added. “They immediately get us the coordinates and we then fire the MLRS right away.”
A third Ukrainian official confirmed that targeting all goes through an American installation on NATO soil and described the process as “very fast.” The Washington Post is withholding the name of the base at the request of U.S. officials who cited security concerns.

Naturally the vatniks will bitch about this while conveniently ignoring the fact that Russia launched the invasion from a neutral country...
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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:10 pm

Punished UMN wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
no, they shuttered the UOC which is part of the ROC. The OCU is still operating freely

The UOC severed its ties to Moscow in March.


no they did not
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Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:21 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:The UOC severed its ties to Moscow in March.


no they did not

I got the date wrong but they cut ties:

On 24 February 2022, Metropolitan Onufriy said the Russian invasion of Ukraine "is a repetition of the sin of Cain, who killed his own brother out of envy. Such a war has no justification either from God or from people."[56] In April 2022, after the Russian invasion, many UOC-MP parishes signaled their intention to switch allegiance to the Orthodox Church of Ukraine.[57] The attitude and stance of Patriarch Kirill of Moscow to the war is one of the oft quoted reasons. On May 12, the synod of the UOC-MP met for the first time since the start of the war and issued a statement of support for Ukraine's armed forces, while condemning the Russian invasion.[58]

On 27 May 2022, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church formally cut ties and declared independence from the Russian Orthodox Church.[15][14][16] In an announcement on Telegram, Archpriest Nikolai Danilevich (head of the UOC's Department of External Church Relations) stated:

The UOC disassociated itself from the Moscow Patriarchate and confirmed its independent status, and made appropriate changes to its statutes. All references to the connection of the UOC with the Russian Orthodox Church have been removed from the statutes. In fact, in its content, the UOC statutes are now those of an autocephalous Church.[59][60]

On 29 May 2022, Metropolitan Onufriy did not mention Patriarch Kirill during the liturgy as someone who had authority over him (like before), instead he commemorated all heads of churches, similar to primatial divine liturgies.
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Postby Adamede » Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:53 pm

Fortisbellator wrote:
Adamede wrote:Yah the one teeny tiny little problem with that is that Ukraine is a fairly conservative society that’s overwhelmingly Eastern Orthodox as well.

Only difference I can tell is that Kirill is ex-KGB agent in the pocket of the Kremlin.

Zelensky dissolved the church, though, right?

Lol

No. The Ukrainian government cracked down on pro-Russian priests. As one should expect in a war where Russia is trying to exterminate your nation.

But I know that doesn’t feed into the Russian narrative of the evil Jewish-Nazis.
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Postby Adamede » Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:56 pm

:?
Punished UMN wrote:
Jeriga wrote:Yeah, the operational goal of the Russian advance there is basically completed. Cutting the highway is important to taking the city. I'm still really confused about the importance of this town, though?

The importance for Ukraine is that the Russians massed a huge amount of troops there. For the Russians, it's really mostly that it stands in the way of control over Donbas.

Bakhmut is an important logistics hub sure, or was, but it’s not a gate way into the rest of Donetsk. I since ley doubt that the Ukrainian lines will break if they lose the town, just like the loss of Sevierodonetsk didn’t result in Russia breaking into most of Ukrainian controlled Donetsk from the north east.
Last edited by Adamede on Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:02 pm

Adamede wrote:
Fortisbellator wrote:Zelensky dissolved the church, though, right?

Lol

No. The Ukrainian government cracked down on pro-Russian priests. As one should expect in a war where Russia is trying to exterminate your nation.

But I know that doesn’t feed into the Russian narrative of the evil Jewish-Nazis.

Hey, when the priests starts throw pipe-bombs as they walk into a bar, it's time for the rabbi and the minister to duck.
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Jeriga
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Postby Jeriga » Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:10 pm

Punished UMN wrote:
Jeriga wrote:Yeah, the operational goal of the Russian advance there is basically completed. Cutting the highway is important to taking the city. I'm still really confused about the importance of this town, though?

The importance for Ukraine is that the Russians massed a huge amount of troops there. For the Russians, it's really mostly that it stands in the way of control over Donbas.

What a shitty reason to die
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:56 pm

Jeriga wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:The importance for Ukraine is that the Russians massed a huge amount of troops there. For the Russians, it's really mostly that it stands in the way of control over Donbas.

What a shitty reason to die

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-The United States
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Postby -The United States » Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:26 am

Punished UMN wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
no they did not

I got the date wrong but they cut ties:

On 27 May 2022, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church formally cut ties and declared independence from the Russian Orthodox Church.

*crickets*

Nobody will reply to this, I'll assume.

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Laka Strolistandiler
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Postby Laka Strolistandiler » Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:45 am

Russia reportedly lost at least 30 armored vehicles, essentially having a whole armored battalion wiped out in a single engagement. What a shitload of idiocy the Russian tactical-level command is to group up tanks like this is beyond me lol
Last edited by Laka Strolistandiler on Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Continental Free States » Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:01 am

Is Putin still micromanaging every unit's actions on every front like they said he was doing earlier in the war? Because honestly an entire battalion's worth of armor in one engagement should be quite the wake up call
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Postby -The United States » Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:51 am

Continental Free States wrote:Is Putin still micromanaging every unit's actions on every front like they said he was doing earlier in the war? Because honestly an entire battalion's worth of armor in one engagement should be quite the wake up call

If it's Ukraine making the claim, then it's a pretty safe bet to just ignore it.

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Northern Seleucia
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Postby Northern Seleucia » Fri Feb 10, 2023 5:44 am

Continental Free States wrote:Is Putin still micromanaging every unit's actions on every front like they said he was doing earlier in the war? Because honestly an entire battalion's worth of armor in one engagement should be quite the wake up call

It reminds me of Hitler in the aftermath of when the USSR launched Operation Typhoon and defended Moscow. He fired his commander and took charge himself.

Granted, it's eight months old, but apparently, according to Western sources, he's involved as if he were a "colonel or a brigadier" in his war.
Last edited by Northern Seleucia on Fri Feb 10, 2023 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Northern Seleucia
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Postby Northern Seleucia » Fri Feb 10, 2023 5:47 am

-The United States wrote:
Continental Free States wrote:Is Putin still micromanaging every unit's actions on every front like they said he was doing earlier in the war? Because honestly an entire battalion's worth of armor in one engagement should be quite the wake up call

If it's Ukraine making the claim, then it's a pretty safe bet to just ignore it.

Nah, "Western Military Sources"
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Northern Seleucia
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Postby Northern Seleucia » Fri Feb 10, 2023 5:53 am

Out of the 71 missiles Russia fired, Ukrainian air defense shot down 61 today. The missiles Russia launched were Kh-101, Kh-555 and Kalibrs. Besides that, five Shahed 136/131 drones were shot down.


The Russian Ambassador to Moldova was summoned after Russian missiles violated their airspace during their attack on Ukrainian cities.
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Jeriga
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Postby Jeriga » Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:33 am

-The United States wrote:
Continental Free States wrote:Is Putin still micromanaging every unit's actions on every front like they said he was doing earlier in the war? Because honestly an entire battalion's worth of armor in one engagement should be quite the wake up call

If it's Ukraine making the claim, then it's a pretty safe bet to just ignore it.

That loss was visually confirmed dude.
I'd be a real socialist if I thought it could actually work.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Feb 10, 2023 7:02 am

Jeriga wrote:
-The United States wrote:If it's Ukraine making the claim, then it's a pretty safe bet to just ignore it.

That loss was visually confirmed dude.

Source: I saw it. With my eyes.

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