The Ukrainian War V: Tanks For The Memories

[GEAPS]

Poland would do well to advise the Ukrainians of the Allied complicity in the betrayals to Stalin in 1944 of all participating in the Warsaw Uprisings.

How quickly do we forget that it was Stalin who trampled all of Poland too. Quite literally the meme, "You've freed us! More like under new management."

All roads lead to Lublin

[The Two Jerseys]

Is that what they teach you in Russian schools?

British!

No it's true that Stalin and Churchill let the Polish massacre themselves in front of German MG's as a consequence of their Yalta Accords. I knew many Old Poles

The Western Allies were air dropping supplies to the Home Army. The Soviets were the ones sitting around doing jack shit to help.

Churchill was particularly in favor of aiding the uprising.

[GEAPS]

British!

No it's true that Stalin and Churchill let the Polish massacre themselves in front of German MG's as a consequence of their Yalta Accords. I knew many Old Poles

The Western Allies were air dropping supplies to the Home Army. The Soviets were the ones sitting around doing jack shit to help.

Bit like the powdered milk Eisenhower gave the Hungarians in their hour of need? Crazy to argue Poland was supported against Russia. Crazy to think Ukraine is either. Zelensky's peace will be dictated to him also by Russian-Nato terms. Come on be realistic.

[Ventura Bay]

You really think that Trump would be sending military aid to Russia...?

Pretty much his entire outlook on Russia was wanting Vlad-senpai to notice him, so, yes. Obviously.

I can't tell if you're joking or not.

[GEAPS]

Just in case of confusion Poland never surrendered to terms of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. For this the Russians were expected to help the Poles (and not themselves [?]). Eastern Europe is a very treacherous neighborhood. Churchill; ~Eisenhower; ~Hitler; ~ Stalin all of one mind about the Polish Nation. NATO and Putin of Ukraine. Just being realistic.

[Adamede]

It must be noted that the missile was first detected in December 2022. It's been quite a while since December (6 months), so I doubt Poland can do much anyway. Yes, it's a Russian missile, but its worth avoiding global nuclear warfare over the fact that it was an accidental detour and that it didn't kill anybody.

Poland would do well to advise the Ukrainians of the Allied complicity in the betrayals to Stalin in 1944 of all participating in the Warsaw Uprisings.

The Tussians should also be reminded of their joint invasion of Poland alongside the Nazis in 1939.

[Democratic Poopland]

Poland would do well to advise the Ukrainians of the Allied complicity in the betrayals to Stalin in 1944 of all participating in the Warsaw Uprisings.

The Tussians should also be reminded of their joint invasion of Poland alongside the Nazis in 1939.

They've done it twice, they'll likely do it a third time without fears. It's certain.

[Northern Seleucia]

The Tussians should also be reminded of their joint invasion of Poland alongside the Nazis in 1939.

They've done it twice, they'll likely do it a third time without fears. It's certain.

Bullies only ever learn when you shatter their fucking skull.

[The North Polish Union]

The Western Allies were unable to meaningfully support Armia Krajowa in/around the Warszawa Uprising largely because the Russians refused to let British/American planes which would've been used to airdrop supplies land and refuel on Russian-controlled airstrips. In addition to what aid was being sent being severely weight-limited thanks to the long distances the flights needed to make, the Western Allies considered supply missions without the possibility of landing very risky, especially since the Russians were kind enough to let the remnants of the Luftwaffe operate nearly unopposed over Warsaw for the duration of the Uprising.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Poland would do well to advise the Ukrainians of the Allied complicity in the betrayals to Stalin in 1944 of all participating in the Warsaw Uprisings.

The Tussians should also be reminded of their joint invasion of Poland alongside the Nazis in 1939.

But comrade, what about...

And you know what? Instead of treating the event in that photo as one of incredible infamy and national disgrace the USSR spent the entire Cold War pretending that it never happened.

Soviet propaganda sometimes did stupid things.
It was necessary to clearly say that this is a reasonable step taken for the sake of the Motherland and the World Red Banner Movement.

[Northern Seleucia]

The Western Allies were unable to meaningfully support the AK in/around the Warszawa Uprising largely because the Russians refused to let British/American planes which would've been used to airdrop supplies land and refuel on Russian-controlled airstrips. In addition to what aid was being sent being severely weight-limited thanks to the long distances the flights needed to make, the Western Allies considered supply missions without the possibility of landing very risky, especially since the Russians were kind enough to let the Luftwaffe operate nearly unopposed over Warsaw for the duration of the Uprising.

They couldn't let go of that Axis-Soviet friendliness, could they?

[Stellar Colonies]

The Western Allies were unable to meaningfully support the AK in/around the Warszawa Uprising largely because the Russians refused to let British/American planes which would've been used to airdrop supplies land and refuel on Russian-controlled airstrips. In addition to what aid was being sent being severely weight-limited thanks to the long distances the flights needed to make, the Western Allies considered supply missions without the possibility of landing very risky, especially since the Russians were kind enough to let the Luftwaffe operate nearly unopposed over Warsaw for the duration of the Uprising.

They couldn't let go of that Axis-Soviet friendliness, could they?

“Enemy of my enemy…”

Well, at least when it came to Warsaw.

[Democratic Poopland]

They've done it twice, they'll likely do it a third time without fears. It's certain.

Bullies only ever learn when you shatter their fucking skull.

Yes, and Russia hasn't gotten that yet...

[Northern Seleucia]

Bullies only ever learn when you shatter their fucking skull.

Yes, and Russia hasn't gotten that yet...

Soon. Crimea.

[Hispida]

The Western Allies were unable to meaningfully support Armia Krajowa in/around the Warszawa Uprising largely because the Russians refused to let British/American planes which would've been used to airdrop supplies land and refuel on Russian-controlled airstrips. In addition to what aid was being sent being severely weight-limited thanks to the long distances the flights needed to make, the Western Allies considered supply missions without the possibility of landing very risky, especially since the Russians were kind enough to let the remnants of the Luftwaffe operate nearly unopposed over Warsaw for the duration of the Uprising.

it's almost like they were out of steam and recovering from the largest land offensive in human history or something.

[Gallia-]

The Red Army flew more than 10x as many resupply missions during the Warsaw Airlift as all other Allied forces combined and for many more days. Shockingly enough an airstrip designed to support operations of very small IL-2s and Po-2s isn't going to support very large C-47s or B-17s lol. The Western Allies were just too busy using their already allocated heavy bomber airbases in Ukraine to bomb Romania and Hungary during Frantic, which began at the same time as the Warsaw Uprising, instead of resupplying the Polish. Very strange, but the people who cried the most were doing the least, in that regard.

General consensus among U.S. 8th Air Force and RAF officers was that the Red Army was eager to, but unable to help much, and the CPSU was the real wrench in the gears.

Actual reality is that even if the CPSU hadn't been obstructionist (and, of course, the job of the commissar in the Red Army is to keep the Army from wasting valuable materiel and munitions at the end of the day) the Red Army wasn't really in any condition to conduct major offensives for a few more months. It tried to take Latvia and the Baltics back from the Nazis and failed, which marked the end of Bagration. Had the Warsaw Uprising occurred in January 1945 instead of August 1944, there would have been a more substantial amount of help that could be provided, as even in the face of intransigence of the CPSU there were units of the Red Army such as the 1st Polish Army and various Russian and Baltic field armies that could have independently assisted.

There was even an attempted assault crossing of the Vistula in late September, which failed because there simply wasn't enough ammunition across the Red Army, much less the 1st Polish Army, to force a bridgehead. This could have been foreseen in July 1944, when several Nazi tank divisions repulsed the 1st Ukrainian Front's 2nd Guards Tank Army, as the Red Army was already running out of momentum halfway through its major offensive, but there's little chance a mere Army-grade officer would know what's happening in another Army, much less another Front.

The Polish Army simply chose a poor time to launch an attack. No more, no less.

This is David Glantz's conclusion, in The Soviet Conduct of Maneuver where he discusses simply how heavily fortified Warsaw was, but he's only the foremost expert on the Red Army in WW2 and the Eastern Front in the Western world.

[Adamede]

The Western Allies were unable to meaningfully support Armia Krajowa in/around the Warszawa Uprising largely because the Russians refused to let British/American planes which would've been used to airdrop supplies land and refuel on Russian-controlled airstrips. In addition to what aid was being sent being severely weight-limited thanks to the long distances the flights needed to make, the Western Allies considered supply missions without the possibility of landing very risky, especially since the Russians were kind enough to let the remnants of the Luftwaffe operate nearly unopposed over Warsaw for the duration of the Uprising.

it's almost like they were out of steam and recovering from the largest land offensive in human history or something.

How convenient that they ran out of steam on the outskirts of Warsaw.

[Hispida]

it's almost like they were out of steam and recovering from the largest land offensive in human history or something.

How convenient that they ran out of steam on the outskirts of Warsaw.

what did you expect them to do? cross a river into one of the most easily defensible cities in poland, where the germans had 4 tank divisions at the ready after the 8th guards, 3rd, and 16th tank corps were halted outside of the city? without armored support, the 47th army could barely join the offensive near wolomin after the 2nd tank army had already been defeated and had to retreat. as gallia noted, the red army flew resupply missions into warsaw during the uprising, and often better, too: in fact, it's estimated that nearly 80% of the few american supplies given to the warsaw uprising fell into the hands of germany.

[Thermodolia]

None of this has anything to do with the current war in Ukraine. So maybe we should stick to that.

[Rakhalia]

None of this has anything to do with the current war in Ukraine. So maybe we should stick to that.

to be fair a lot of the rhetoric being flung around around WW2 has everything to do with the national mythologies employed by both sides in order to bolster the war effort. context is important.

[Tarsonis]

None of this has anything to do with the current war in Ukraine. So maybe we should stick to that.

to be fair a lot of the rhetoric being flung around around WW2 has everything to do with the national mythologies employed by both sides in order to bolster the war effort. context is important.

But the context is a lie, we know it's all window dressing to Putin's desire to prove he big bad and can pull a Desert Storm.

[Eahland]

Stand by? No, definitely not. We'd just be sending tanks to the other side.

The only reason the invasion does not happen if Trump is in power is if Vladdy P is to busy getting the sloppy jaloppy from him.

You really think that Trump would be sending military aid to Russia...?

Reminder that Trump held duly-approved military aid to Ukraine hostage in an effort to extort them into announcing an investigation into Biden.

[The North Polish Union]

The Western Allies were unable to meaningfully support Armia Krajowa in/around the Warszawa Uprising largely because the Russians refused to let British/American planes which would've been used to airdrop supplies land and refuel on Russian-controlled airstrips. In addition to what aid was being sent being severely weight-limited thanks to the long distances the flights needed to make, the Western Allies considered supply missions without the possibility of landing very risky, especially since the Russians were kind enough to let the remnants of the Luftwaffe operate nearly unopposed over Warsaw for the duration of the Uprising.

it's almost like they were out of steam and recovering from the largest land offensive in human history or something.

This is a common line that tankies such as yourself trot out, but the reality is either that (1) its a lie or (2) its the truth but the highest echelons of Soviet leadership intentionally misled the Armia Krajowa to start the uprising thinking Russian support was imminent.

If (1) was true then that must not have been communicated to Zygmunt Berling or his semi-autonomous but ultimately Soviet-operated 1 Armia WP who actually crossed the Wisła and were holding several vital river crossings while attempting to fight their way to the AK positions before the Russians relieved Berling of command and shut down the operation

Of course none of these cast GLORIOUS SOCIALIST WORKER'S PARADISE SOVIET UNION MAY COMRADE STALIN LIVE FOREVER in a favorable light.

I've posted extensively about this in the past and may try to dig some of those up again and repost them but its always the same group of individuals who are guilty of spreading the same lies again and again to justify the shittiness of their deeply repugnant ideology, so usually those posts are ignored by those who most ought to read them anyways.

[GEAPS]

All interesting comments. A Polish dwarf state could not defend itself against a Federative Russia. Ukraine struggles also. The solution here is larger unitary European States, grouped by topography and language. Russia is picking apart weak federations and that is it's aim. Kiev unlike Moscow is close to it's border. That is the rub. It's all about reach. Russia can flee hu dreds of miles and about face attack. What hope for smaller state as described unless with promises of help from allies.

I'm all for fending off the Eastern Menaces; ~ but not to defend an idea of dozens of interdependent micro nations based on neo-liberalism and alliances. About half of Europe's states must merge. Or wait. For the Allies and take their chances trusting elected politicians and sequestered and castrated armies with possibility of nuclear war. Just my thoughts reading all of the above.

[Farnhamia]

All interesting comments. A Polish dwarf state could not defend itself against a Federative Russia. Ukraine struggles also. The solution here is larger unitary European States, grouped by topography and language. Russia is picking apart weak federations and that is it's aim. Kiev unlike Moscow is close to it's border. That is the rub. It's all about reach. Russia can flee hu dreds of miles and about face attack. What hope for smaller state as described unless with promises of help from allies.

I'm all for fending off the Eastern Menaces; ~ but not to defend an idea of dozens of interdependent micro nations based on neo-liberalism and alliances. About half of Europe's states must merge. Or wait. For the Allies and take their chances trusting elected politicians and sequestered and castrated armies with possibility of nuclear war. Just my thoughts reading all of the above.

Just out of curiosity, who should merge with whom in the EU?