The Ukrainian War V: Tanks For The Memories

[El Lazaro]

my poster in christ, what the fuck does that even mean?

Forty-Two.

Wholeheartedly concur

[Tarsonis]

Again, you're all wasting your time. The vatniks will have to cope with Ukrainian sovereignty in due time.

[Adamede]

Buddy Russia shot its fucking dick off with this war. Best case scenario for Russia is it’s a pyrrhic victory. Worse case they lost the territory they controlled in 2014. In Botha crisis Russia ceases to he a world super power that has lost most of it’s military might.

A Pyrrhic victory is still better than defeat,

I suggest you look up the meaning of a pyrrhic victory.

Ukraine's entry into NATO,

Ukraine had no chance of entering NATO before the 2022 invasion. Now its assured, and Finland is alrady in NATO and Sweden will be admitted in the near future, effecgticely trapping in Russia in the Baltic.

the cleansing of the east of Ukraine from Russian culture

Which isn't happening.

and the establishment of an even more comprador regime in Russia.

lol no

Speaking of the beginning of the interstate conflict. What can be achieved by continuing to look at the militarization of a hostile nationalist Ukraine? And what can be achieved by allowing the Ukrainians to crush the Russian republics with a western tank, especially if inside the country you position yourself as a patriotic force?

Maybe don't invade Ukraine, creating the situtuon which leads to the situation that resulted in a militarized and nationalsist Ukraine which hates Russia's guts, such as by not invading an annexing Ukrainain territory, or not raping and killig Ukrainain civilains including childen. Also don't have tens of thosuands of Russians rotting in Ukrainain soil.
And what armng the Ukrainains to crush the Rusians and their vassals does is that it stops the Russian invasion, the genocide that Russia is carrying out on Ukraine, it defeats Russian imperilsim and it crushes the Russian military and with it Russia's international standing as a military power. Long story short it is the moral thing to do.

If I thought so, then I would be neutral and just silent.
And the Ukrainians would not have to Ukrainize the territory of "theirs".

Good thing theyre not doing that. Hell if we want to be historically accurate here the presence of a Russian minority in Ukraine comes from Russianization during the Russian Empire and Soviet Union.

I see no reason to argue with Goebbels-TV.

Then I suggest you stop commenting if you hate Goebbels style propaganda.

Most Russians will have to live in the space of the Russian Federation, while for the Ukrainians to be in the European space is actually part of the state ideology.

I actually agree here. However Crimea, the Donbas, hersona dn Zaporhizia are not a aprt of Russia, theyre a part of Ukraine, and will be a part of the EU along with Ukraine. And all the ethnic Russians that moved there after the ilelgal annexations can go back to their Russian shitholes.

[Mountains and Volcanoes]

Again, you're all wasting your time. The vatniks will have to cope with Ukrainian sovereignty in due time.

Perfect debate(s), that sums up everything, on this thread: Destiny vs Elijah, Destiny vs Journalist, Destiny, Mises Institute, and Russian Invasion.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

my poster in christ, what the fuck does that even mean?

Forty-Two.

Dude thinks that Ukraine is preordained to become a vassal-state of one sort or another regardless of the outcome.

Because every alliance is a form of serfdom, obviously.

Even though if Ukraine joined NATO, they'd be the top third largest military in the alliance.

With a military like that, you can even tell your allies to get off your lawn.

As for Russia... has anyone else noticed that the Baikal mainline is under new management?

[The Merry-Men]

AND THIS IS WHERE PEOPLE ARE FLOODIBG TOO, HUH!? WORRYING ABOUT THE FUCKIBG UKRAINIANS LIKE ALWAYS INSTEAD OF THEIR FELLOW USERS IN A DIFFERENT TIMEZONE? NO WONDER THIS FUCKING GAME IS DEAD!


On another note, I'll state first and foremost I support the Ukrainian cause. I mean, after seeing that video of the Russians beheading a Ukrainian POW, and the exploits of a man named Mr. Bychkov, how couldn't I support Ukraine? I don't care if there's Nazis, imperialism never works out.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

AND THIS IS WHERE PEOPLE ARE FLOODIBG TOO, HUH!? WORRYING ABOUT THE FUCKIBG UKRAINIANS LIKE ALWAYS INSTEAD OF THEIR FELLOW USERS IN A DIFFERENT TIMEZONE? NO WONDER THIS FUCKING GAME IS DEAD!

They're a big-boy chad, they can handle themselves. Besides, us old-farts made a pact with the admins back in '08 to not DOS the forum or utterly break gameplay in retaliation anymore.

THE GREAT MOD-WAR WAS REAL

/tangeant

[The Merry-Men]

AND THIS IS WHERE PEOPLE ARE FLOODIBG TOO, HUH!? WORRYING ABOUT THE FUCKIBG UKRAINIANS LIKE ALWAYS INSTEAD OF THEIR FELLOW USERS IN A DIFFERENT TIMEZONE? NO WONDER THIS FUCKING GAME IS DEAD!

They're a big-boy chad, they can handle themselves. Besides, us old-farts made a pact with the admins back in '08 to not DOS the forum or utterly break gameplay in retaliation anymore.

THE GREAT MOD-WAR WAS REAL

/tangeant

That makes sense, at least... thanks. I apologise for spamming and ranting on, it's just frustrating and jarring to be hyped up for an RP on F7 and then find everyone gone after you come back from your lunch.

Thank you. With that, I'll just hop out of the thread, leave you to the actual debate at hand, and vow to never eat lunch again.

[The Rio Grande River Basin]

And Russia’s genius idea was to give them that war?

They would have started a war anyway, crushing the Donbass and clearing the region of Russian culture.
Such stuff would shake the legitimacy of the regime, and besides, it would create a direct military threat in the form of Ukraine.

Ukraine was not going to start a war with Russia anymore than Russia is going to start a war with the US. They thought Russia was more powerful.

Your idea is also a dumbass one.

I am sure that your idea is that the Russian Federation should capitulate. I'm no worse than you.

Nope. Borders back to 1991.

No. Germany looked at these agreements as a temporary truce.

Ukraine was of the same opinion. Again, did they really fight against nationalism? Did they withdraw troops from the line of contact as expected? Did they take steps towards federalization? Could their system give real guarantees of amnesty to the rebels?
No.

Did Russia break the agreement as well? Yes.

So Putin is a hypocrite, and the Russians did have enthusiasm, got it.

I believe this is true.
Although, maybe Putin also felt a military threat from the West, but this does not quite apply to the case of Donbass, from a military point of view, a non-bloc Ukraine is not bad.

For Russia it wasn't bad. Now they get a three for one of an inevitable NATO Ukraine, Finland and Sweden.

So the idea was to have Sweden and Finland join NATO? Great job.

These countries are not completely neutral, + St. Petersburg is already under threat because of Estonia

Finland is far more dangerous.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Actually, yes. Russian ethno-nationalism is usually suppressed by the authorities; Nationalists are dissatisfied with the effect of Art. 282 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, and non-Russian diasporas, apparently, have something that they should not have in a healthy society.

Usually suppressed? When are they arresting Putin? Russia's politics is ethno-nationalism and christian fascism. Search up Ivan Ilyin

NATO will be two steps away from Petersburg because Russia pissed Neutral Finland into joining NATO.

Estonia.
And Finland has no real reason to be afraid of Russia, the situation here is far from the same as with Ukraine; it's just a display of Finnish hostility.

Russia invaded a neutral neighbour. Finland has been neutral for years. Suddenly, Finland thought "who's next as Putin tries to rebuild the Russian Empire".

Russia invaded a non-NATO European country. How long before they invade NATO?

Infinitely long. Russia has no real chance of defeating NATO in a conventional battle, and everyone except Russian turbopatriots and Western hysterics knows this.

That explain the threatening article about Poland Medvedev wrote?

No, I simply said, if you believe one, you must believe the other.

The situations are too different.
If Ukraine made concessions to the regions, then I would just silently look at it and go about other things, I would not protest against a peaceful, neutral, federal and non-fascist Ukraine. But they chose the degenerate path, unfortunately.

What the fuck are you on about.

Still no idea what you’re waffling about.

If Ukrainians love Europe so much, then why are they rushing not to go there, but to keep the troubled Donbass under control?

Because it's their country, fair and square.

“iT’s AlL tEh WeSt’S fAuLt”

You can't disprove the truth just by wRiTNg It LiKe ThIs.
You agreed that the Russian lords would be happy to just sit on the throne and watch the dollars flow into their pockets, didn't you? So why can't you add 2 + 2 and admit that they were forced to act by external circumstances?

Capital avoids turbulence and strife and lack of profit, doesn't it?
A calm and civil "burial" of the Donbass problem, a tranquil western border and normal seat at the table with "respectable partners" would give them peace and the opportunity to continue trading with the West, while a fight would only give them problems. Please tell me what they would choose if they had a choice?

And please do not write that Putin is a tsarist, a Stalinist, an Ultrafascist, a National-Revanchist, a Duginist... anything like that. They have no ideology, United Russia is a centrist party. And if Putin was a schizo, then he would be somewhere, but not in power.

Putin is a dictator. He doesn't need to be a centrist in an officially centrist far right party. Actual right wing politicians in Russia are the opposition. And he is a Christian fascist, almost self-admittedly.

[Russian SPD]

I suggest you look up the meaning of a pyrrhic victory.

I know what is it.
In the matter of defense directly from NATO, I place some hope in nuclear weapons.

Ukraine had no chance of entering NATO before the 2022 invasion.

Why? Lithuania was accepted.

Which isn't happening.

Degenerate laws, such as restrictions on the use of the Russian language in the media, will not agree with you.
In Russia, for example, there are entire channels in Tatar, no one cares.

lol no

? It seems to me that if Russia loses, the liberal opposition will have more chances.
And the liberals, as we know, are the bottom. Worse than them only fascists.

Maybe don't invade Ukraine, creating the situtuon which leads to the situation that resulted in a militarized and nationalsist Ukraine which hates Russia's guts

Right-wing nationalists have been there at least since the Maidan itself, even before the Crimean events.

Long story short it is the moral thing to do.

Leaving your "fellow tribesmen" alone with this scum is an immoral act.

Hell if we want to be historically accurate here the presence of a Russian minority in Ukraine comes from Russianization during the Russian Empire and Soviet Union.

The USSR was engaged in Ukrainianization.
Before the Russian Empire, there was a wild field, a semi-Tatar territory.

Then I suggest you stop commenting if you hate Goebbels style propaganda.

I'm just talking about my view of the map,and about desirable and undesirable developments.
You talk about "billions of parrots raped with teaspoons" (sum of several Ukrainian stories).
Who among us is more Goebbels?

[Relikai]

Who among us is more Goebbels?

Goebbels deez nuts.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Ukraine had no chance of entering NATO before the 2022 invasion.

Why? Lithuania was accepted.

For the same reason Georgia has never joined NATO. Ukraine actually joining NATO is a scenario that has only ever existed in the minds of Russian nationalists, it was never going to happen. Shit the only reason Ukraine pivoted so hard to the west is because Putin is a dumbass who made the worst choices possible in pretty much every situation from 2014 till now.

[The Merry-Men]

Then I suggest you stop commenting if you hate Goebbels style propaganda.

I'm just talking about my view of the map,and about desirable and undesirable developments.
You talk about "billions of parrots raped with teaspoons" (sum of several Ukrainian stories).
Who among us is more Goebbels?

Red is definitely more Goebbels, I saw him vent on stage and then he sabotaged free speech, definitely sus
I'M SORRY I COULDN'T HELP MYSELF I'M GETTING OFF THE THREAD NOW

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Before the Russian Empire, there was a wild field, a semi-Tatar territory.

Ah yes... mission civilisatrice.

[Russian SPD]

Ukraine was not going to start a war with Russia

However, they apparently planned to merrily burn those republics.

Nope. Borders back to 1991.

And also pay reparations, repent, get rid of the "bloody dictatorship", condemn the "vile past" ...
How is this different from what I said?

Did Russia break the agreement as well?

In the Donbass in 2015-2022, Ukraine had a position of military superiority. If they violate the contract, then there is no point in keeping it; and yet they respected and endured while the Ukraine was militarized for the rush to the east.

For Russia it wasn't bad. Now they get a three for one of an inevitable NATO Ukraine, Finland and Sweden.

The Scandinavians are clearly in the "Western camp", I would hardly have remained neutral in the event of, for example, another Drang nah Osten.

And why not cross one item off this list?

Usually suppressed?

Ethno-nationalists face arrests, organization bans, and more. Some (Maxim Martsinkevich) are dying.
In the 2000s, I heard there were skinheads, now there are practically none.
There used to be "Russian marches", now they are gone.
Navalny used to show himself as a nationalist (example), but then he began to portray himself as a semi-liberal, semi-social democrat; the reason is obvious - the nationalist banner could no longer be useful.
The government's migration policy is "very nationalistic".

In short, yes.

Russia's politics is ethno-nationalism and christian fascism.

It's just ridiculous.
Show this very Christian fascism in Russian domestic politics.

Search up Ivan Ilyin

The guarantor of the Constitution sometimes speaks garbage.

Russia invaded a neutral neighbour.

Ukraine actually presented itself as Anti-Russia, this was not the case with Finland.

That explain the threatening article about Poland Medvedev wrote?

Medvedev has been clowning lately.
Perhaps he wants to take the empty place of Zhirinovsky.
Perhaps he heeded the Iron Dimon memes (example) and decided to do it in his public image. lol

In any case, this should not be taken seriously.
I will not forget that he was an unpopular liberal prime minister who took pictures with an iPhone and gave part of the Arctic shelf to a NATO country.

What the fuck are you on about.

Do you not understand the language, or do you treat all modes without exception the same way?

Because it's their country, fair and square.

No. “Politics is the concentrated expression of economics,” after all. It would make sense for them to agree to autonomy back in 2014 and leave for the EU forever.

Putin is a dictator. He doesn't need to be a centrist in an officially centrist far right party. Actual right wing politicians in Russia are the opposition. And he is a Christian fascist, almost self-admittedly.

Putin clearly does not want the fate of Paul the First. If this is so (and this is so), then he cannot act guided by the Shiza, he acts guided by the interests of "his own".

And no, he is not a Christian fascist. If it were, the trees would be adorned with some of the bodies that are now free.

[Picairn]

I'm just talking about my view of the map,and about desirable and undesirable developments.
You talk about "billions of parrots raped with teaspoons" (sum of several Ukrainian stories).
Who among us is more Goebbels?

The minds of conspiracy theorists are truly astounding. "Everything is fake and part of a conspiracy."

[Picairn]

The Russian V-E Day parade today featured only a single T-34 and some other vehicles. No other tanks were present. The amount of vehicles also decreased massively.

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status ... 32224?s=20

I repeat, the Russian May 9th Parade featured A SINGLE TANK.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

No. “Politics is the concentrated expression of economics,” after all. It would make sense for them to agree to autonomy back in 2014 and leave for the EU forever.

What are you even going on about here, Jimbo?

[Russian SPD]

Before the Russian Empire, there was a wild field, a semi-Tatar territory.

Ah yes... mission civilisatrice.

No. This is about the fact that Russian settlers did not steal these lands from the local Ukrainian majority.
In the Russian Empire, the Eastern Slavs jointly pushed back the Crimean Tatars.

The minds of conspiracy theorists are truly astounding. "Everything is fake and part of a conspiracy."

After all, the oligarchs are honest idealists, not crooks!

And your awesome emotional stories are cool.
I can't wait to hear the "розмови оркiв" like:

- Hello, wife, today I stole a toilet bowl with Nutella inside!
-How many have you raped today?
- 5 pregnant pensioners
- Just 5? A SHAME! Great-grandfather in Berlin raped 8,000 German women a day!!!

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The Russian V-E Day parade today featured only a single T-34 and some other vehicles. No other tanks were present. The amount of vehicles also decreased massively.

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status ... 32224?s=20

I repeat, the Russian May 9th Parade featured A SINGLE TANK.

And vlad p still hasn't done anything medvedev's been screaming about for the past year - i.e. declare war on the nazi west?

No. This is about the fact that Russian settlers did not steal these lands from the local Ukrainian majority.
In the Russian Empire, the Eastern Slavs jointly pushed back the Crimean Tatars.

You have absolutely no idea what mission civilisatrice is, do you?

[Vassenor]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commando_Order

These people are not always dressed in proper uniform, and are unlikely to have tried to surrender.
I have a feeling they are almost always disguised as civilians.
Or they are simply civilians, secretly helping Kyiv for the sake of money / for fun / for ideological reasons.

Any commando or small group of commandos or a similar unit, agents, and saboteurs not in proper uniforms who fell into the hands of the German forces by some means other than direct combat (by being apprehended by the police in occupied territories, for instance), were to be handed over immediately to the Sicherheitsdienst (SD, or Security Service) for immediate execution.

Congratulations on justifiying Nazi atrocities.

[Picairn]

After all, the oligarchs are honest idealists, not crooks!

And your awesome emotional stories are cool.

You can't even provide evidence for your denials lmao, all you do is create strawmen to randomly throw at people and deny, deny, deny.

[Russian SPD]

You have absolutely no idea what mission civilisatrice is, do you?

No, this is clear from those familiar Latin roots of the word.

If I misunderstood you, tell me, where did you see the "civilizing mission" here?

Congratulations on justifiying Nazi atrocities.

I don't really care about the Nazis, I have no purpose to drink tea from a plastic bag because Hitler drank from cups.

all you do is create strawmen to randomly throw at people

You call ANY suspicion of having secret plans conspiracy theories.
From language practice, I know what this means; you say that ALL such suspicions are stupid and meaningless.

If I make strawmen, then you're no better than me.

and deny, deny, deny

Is it my fault that your media strategy is to create as much shit as possible, bombarding the other side with it like a thousand Katyushas?

Let's take one example, a film by a liberal, Yuri Dudya,"Kolyma - the birthplace of our fear." The analysis of this rubbish took 17 videos!

Under such circumstances, the strategy of labeling some sources of information as "un-persons" and rejecting non-obvious-truth data from them is reasonable, I guess.

[Vassenor]

You have absolutely no idea what mission civilisatrice is, do you?

No, this is clear from those familiar Latin roots of the word.

If I misunderstood you, tell me, where did you see the "civilizing mission" here?

Congratulations on justifiying Nazi atrocities.

I don't really care about the Nazis, I have no purpose to drink tea from a plastic bag because Hitler drank from cups.

all you do is create strawmen to randomly throw at people

You call ANY suspicion of having secret plans conspiracy theories.
From language practice, I know what this means; you say that ALL such suspicions are stupid and meaningless.

If I make strawmen, then you're no better than me.

and deny, deny, deny

Is it my fault that your media strategy is to create as much shit as possible, bombarding the other side with it like a thousand Katyushas?

Let's take one example, a film by a liberal, Yuri Dudya,"Kolyma - the birthplace of our fear." The analysis of this rubbish took 17 videos!

Under such circumstances, the strategy of labeling some sources of information as "un-persons" and rejecting non-obvious-truth data from them is reasonable, I guess.

There's a difference between "Hitler ate sugar" and "Russian troops should deal with partisans the same way the Nazis did".

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I don't really care about the Nazis, I have no purpose to drink tea from a plastic bag because Hitler drank from cups.

There is a pretty fucking bloody huge difference between drinking fucking water and committing war crimes and murder.