The Ukrainian War V: Tanks For The Memories

[Dakran]

The Russians are foreign occupiers dying in a pointless and criminal war for lands and people who don't want them there and don't belong to them. They're the oens dying for a stupid cause, and theyre dying in stupid ways for it. And they're beeing cheered on by the moraly corrupt who cheer over the execution of Ukrainain civilians.

Pointless? It will determine the future of the country for years to come.
As for the rights to the land, I'm too lazy to argue, especially with formal-legal and pro-Western guys like you.
In a rather gloomy (and most realistic) case for me, if 2 corrupt oligarchies are now fighting, the Ukrainian dies more stupidly: the Russian is more attached to the land, while the Ukrainian would be better off leaving for the holy EU, because there he will surely receive 300,000 euros in a millisecond, breathing air filled with molecules of freedom.

my poster in christ, what the fuck does that even mean?

[Azov steel 2022]

Total Russian combat losses since the beginning of the invasion of Ukraine, according to the General Staff, as of the morning of May 6:

personnel - about 193,770 people (approximately +560 for the previous day);
tanks –3,717 (+7);
armored combat vehicles (AMVs) – 7,238 (+14);
artillery systems – 2992 (+14);
rocket launcher systems (RSZV) – 552 (+2);
air defense means – 306 (+2);
aircraft – 308 (+0);
helicopters – 294 (+0);
operational-tactical level drones – 2,554 (+14);
cruise missiles – 947 (+0);
boats/ships – 18 (+0);
automotive equipment and fuel tanks - 5936 (+20);
special equipment - 375 (+2).

50+ years' worth of equipment burned through, numerous officers and experienced soldiers dead in a year. There's no way the Russians can rebuild their peacetime army anymore for decades.

yes

[The Rio Grande River Basin]

So, I’ll keep that in mind, Russia SPD supports Ukrainians shooting anyone they suspect of collaborating with the Russians. Excellent.

[Russian SPD]

So, I’ll keep that in mind, Russia SPD supports Ukrainians shooting anyone they suspect of collaborating with the Russians. Excellent.

Don't they suppress them in various ways? If their camp were really civilized, I would probably be neutral.

[Adamede]

War is always a fucking pointless waste of human lives. And if you argue "Russian SPD" guy I invite you to go to Bakhmut and experience Dulce et Decorum est for yourself.

You know condemning that saying carries a lot less weight when it’s the very existence of your entire society that is hanging in the balance if you don’t fight and allow a foreign invader to come in and destroy it. War is pointless but Ukraine didn’t start this war and their efforts aren’t unnecessary given the situation they’re in.

E: hate autocorrect.

[Adamede]

So, I’ll keep that in mind, Russia SPD supports Ukrainians shooting anyone they suspect of collaborating with the Russians. Excellent.

Don't they suppress them in various ways? If their camp were really civilized, I would probably be neutral.

Buddy the Ukrainians very clearly have the moral high ground in this war. They’re saints compared to your lot.

[The Rio Grande River Basin]

So, I’ll keep that in mind, Russia SPD supports Ukrainians shooting anyone they suspect of collaborating with the Russians. Excellent.

Don't they suppress them in various ways? If their camp were really civilized, I would probably be neutral.

You support suspected Ukrainian supporters being shot, so to avoid hypocrisy, I’m assuming you’d support, or at least find it reasonable, for suspected Russian supporters being shot by Ukraine?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

War is always a fucking pointless waste of human lives. And if you argue "Russian SPD" guy I invite you to go to Bakhmut and experience Dulce et Decorum est for yourself.

You know condemning that saying Carrie’s a lot less weight when it’s the very existence of your entire society that is hanging in the balance if you don’t fight and allow a foreign invader to come in and destroy it. War is pointless but Ukraine didn’t start this war and their efforts aren’t unnecessary given the situation they’re in

Yeah...
Ukrainians wouldn't have to die in a pointless war of vlad p's doing if vlad p didn't start pointless wars of aggression. That's my point.

[Adamede]

The Russians are foreign occupiers dying in a pointless and criminal war for lands and people who don't want them there and don't belong to them. They're the oens dying for a stupid cause, and theyre dying in stupid ways for it. And they're beeing cheered on by the moraly corrupt who cheer over the execution of Ukrainain civilians.

Pointless? It will determine the future of the country for years to come.

Buddy Russia shot its fucking dick off with this war. Best case scenario for Russia is it’s a pyrrhic victory. Worse case they lost the territory they controlled in 2014. In Botha crisis Russia ceases to he a world super power that has lost most of it’s military might.

As for the rights to the land, I'm too lazy to argue, especially with formal-legal and pro-Western guys like you.

Because you know it doesn’t have a legitimate claim to any Ukrainian territory.

In a rather gloomy (and most realistic) case for me, if 2 corrupt oligarchies are now fighting, the Ukrainian dies more stupidly: the Russian is more attached to the land, while the Ukrainian would be better off leaving for the holy EU, because there he will surely receive 300,000 euros in a millisecond, breathing air filled with molecules of freedom.

That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read today. The Russians have no connection with the land, as the land being fight over is Ukrainian, not Russian. And that’s not even getting into the countless barbaric atrocities committed against Ukrainian civilians by the Russians and that will continue to be committed against civilians by the Russians until the last Russian solders left in Ukraine are the ones rotting six feet under the earth.
I get that it’s pointless to debate you but the facts still stand whether you like them or not.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Russia isn't a great power anymore, Russia has no real prospect of returning to great power status, and what this war is about is Russia throwing a hissy fit because they can't accept that simple fact.

As I said earlier -- regardless of who wins, nothing of geopolitical significance will be decided by this war. The only question of interest is how many Eastern Europeans the Kremlin is going to get killed before they concede to the inevitable.

[Russian SPD]

War is always a fucking pointless waste of human lives. And if you argue "Russian SPD" guy I invite you to go to Bakhmut and experience Dulce et Decorum est for yourself.

My idea to stop the bloodshed will be perceived by you as a mockery, so why express it?
I know that dying is non-instantly unpleasant, but this does not change the facts on which my view of the desirable and undesirable outcome of the end of hostilities is based.

You support suspected Ukrainian supporters being shot, so to avoid hypocrisy, I’m assuming you’d support, or at least find it reasonable, for suspected Russian supporters being shot by Ukraine?

The suspect and the convicted are two different things.

Yeah...
Ukrainians wouldn't have to die in a pointless war of vlad p's doing if vlad p didn't start pointless wars of aggression. That's my point.

Let's take one more step. If the Ukrainians had civilly swallowed up the east of the country, and did not arrange a nationalist clowning with swords, they would not have to die. Why did they throw the Minsk agreements in the trash?
The Kremlin obviously had no enthusiasm, they did not support the separatists in Kharkov and did not recognize the republics for 8 years.

Buddy Russia shot its fucking dick off with this war. Best case scenario for Russia is it’s a pyrrhic victory. Worse case they lost the territory they controlled in 2014. In Botha crisis Russia ceases to he a world super power that has lost most of it’s military might.

A Pyrrhic victory is still better than defeat, Ukraine's entry into NATO, the cleansing of the east of Ukraine from Russian culture and the establishment of an even more comprador regime in Russia.

Speaking of the beginning of the interstate conflict. What can be achieved by continuing to look at the militarization of a hostile nationalist Ukraine? And what can be achieved by allowing the Ukrainians to crush the Russian republics with a western tank, especially if inside the country you position yourself as a patriotic force?

Because you know it doesn’t have a legitimate claim to any Ukrainian territory.

If I thought so, then I would be neutral and just silent.
And the Ukrainians would not have to Ukrainize the territory of "theirs".

countless barbaric atrocities

I see no reason to argue with Goebbels-TV.

The Russians have no connection with the land

Most Russians will have to live in the space of the Russian Federation, while for the Ukrainians to be in the European space is actually part of the state ideology.

Russia isn't a great power anymore, Russia has no real prospect of returning to great power status, and what this war is about is Russia throwing a hissy fit because they can't accept that simple fact.

Wouldn't the Russian ruling class just want to sit still and sell oil to the West if they were allowed to do so on acceptable terms?

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

No, this is not a symbol of Azov, but a symbol of the "idea of ​​the nation", and it is not fascist!

I know.
But if Azov was fascist, it would look like this.

"Azov is not fascist!", they say. "Azov is freedom fighting organization!", they say. All the while, Azov laughs as most of its members continue to be connected to far-right neo-nazi groups.

[The Rio Grande River Basin]

I know.
But if Azov was fascist, it would look like this.

"Azov is not fascist!", they say. "Azov is freedom fighting organization!", they say. All the while, Azov laughs as most of its members continue to be connected to far-right neo-nazi groups.

Of course it’s fascist. But Russia simply gave a reason for the group to exist.

War is always a fucking pointless waste of human lives. And if you argue "Russian SPD" guy I invite you to go to Bakhmut and experience Dulce et Decorum est for yourself.

My idea to stop the bloodshed will be perceived by you as a mockery, so why express it?
I know that dying is non-instantly unpleasant, but this does not change the facts on which my view of the desirable and undesirable outcome of the end of hostilities is based.

Your idea to stop bloodshed is bloodshed

You support suspected Ukrainian supporters being shot, so to avoid hypocrisy, I’m assuming you’d support, or at least find it reasonable, for suspected Russian supporters being shot by Ukraine?

The suspect and the convicted are two different things.

So you support Ukrainians killing Russian collaborators ?

Yeah...
Ukrainians wouldn't have to die in a pointless war of vlad p's doing if vlad p didn't start pointless wars of aggression. That's my point.

Let's take one more step. If the Ukrainians had civilly swallowed up the east of the country, and did not arrange a nationalist clowning with swords, they would not have to die. Why did they throw the Minsk agreements in the trash?
The Kremlin obviously had no enthusiasm, they did not support the separatists in Kharkov and did not recognize the republics for 8 years.

“They throw the Minsk agreements into the trash”

They didn’t. Russia did.

And the fact they had no enthusiasm explains why there were Russian soldiers in the Donbas?

Buddy Russia shot its fucking dick off with this war. Best case scenario for Russia is it’s a pyrrhic victory. Worse case they lost the territory they controlled in 2014. In Botha crisis Russia ceases to he a world super power that has lost most of it’s military might.

A Pyrrhic victory is still better than defeat, Ukraine's entry into NATO, the cleansing of the east of Ukraine from Russian culture and the establishment of an even more comprador regime in Russia.
Speaking of the beginning of the interstate conflict. What can be achieved by continuing to look at the militarization of a hostile nationalist Ukraine? And what can be achieved by allowing the Ukrainians to crush the Russian republics with a western tank, especially if inside the country you position yourself as a patriotic force?

Russia isn’t being invaded by Ukraine. Ukraine is allowed to enter NATO. It wasn’t going to be allowed in; until Russia invaded. You heard of a buffer zone? Yeah, obviously not. Let’s say Russia succeeds; they will be surrounded by a more threatened NATO on a longer border. Congrats. And hostile nationalist Ukraine, and not hostile nationalist Russia?

Because you know it doesn’t have a legitimate claim to any Ukrainian territory.

If I thought so, then I would be neutral and just silent.
And the Ukrainians would not have to Ukrainize the territory of "theirs".

Well, Chechenya is part of Russia, so why can’t the Donbas be part of Ukraine?

countless barbaric atrocities

I see no reason to argue with Goebbels-TV.

Mhm…

The Russians have no connection with the land

Most Russians will have to live in the space of the Russian Federation, while for the Ukrainians to be in the European space is actually part of the state ideology.

What has that got to do with anything?

Russia isn't a great power anymore, Russia has no real prospect of returning to great power status, and what this war is about is Russia throwing a hissy fit because they can't accept that simple fact.

Wouldn't the Russian ruling class just want to sit still and sell oil to the West if they were allowed to do so on acceptable terms?

They would. They did.

[Russian SPD]

But Russia simply gave a reason for the group to exist.

Ukrainian nationalists licked their lips at the idea of a war with the Russians before 2022, and before 2014, most likely since 1991, or even continuously since 1917.

Your idea to stop bloodshed is bloodshed

We live in an imperfect world.

So you support Ukrainians killing Russian collaborators ?

No, because I consider a Ukrainian victory undesirable.
I can't whine about it though.

They didn’t.

Has Ukraine taken at least some steps towards the suppression of nationalism and the federalization of the country?
This sounds especially funny given that the Ukrainians constantly criticized these agreements, and recently Merkel explicitly said that these agreements "gave Kyiv time."
Ukraine looked at these agreements as a temporary truce, and not as a path to peace.

And the fact they had no enthusiasm explains why there were Russian soldiers in the Donbas?

So that Ukrainians do not crush down Donbass, so that there is no triumph of pro-Western (semi) fascist Ukraine over Russian land.
Putin could not find a clear explanation of how this would be combined with his stories about "sovereign democracy."

However, Putin was clearly not against the "quiet-peaceful" inclusion of Donbass in Ukraine on non-humiliating terms.

You heard of a buffer zone? Yeah, obviously not.

The Baltics are in NATO, they are not far from the 2nd most important city of Russia.

And hostile nationalist Ukraine, and not hostile nationalist Russia?

Russia is not nationalist.

Let’s say Russia succeeds; they will be surrounded by a more threatened NATO on a longer border.

However, NATO will be near Lvov, and not near Kursk.
And NATO cannot be seriously afraid of the Russian invasion, we are too poor. All their "concerns" are either part of an offensive plan, or a plan to eat military budgets, or something else.

Well, Chechenya is part of Russia, so why can’t the Donbas be part of Ukraine?

That is, you admit that the Donbass is not a inalienable Ukrainian national territory?
In general, Chechnya has been given federal subsidies, language rights, autonomy...
Ukraine does not want to give this to Donbass.

Mhm…

Ага

What has that got to do with anything?

This is to talk about the meaninglessness of deaths, and in principle actions. If a Russian dies meaninglessly, then a Ukrainian dies even more meaninglessly. A Ukrainian is better in Prague than in Berdyansk, in theory.

They would. They did.

That is, they had no intention of making noise, and they would like to just continue to line their pockets from trading with the West, but the West did not let them do this further?

[The Rio Grande River Basin]

But Russia simply gave a reason for the group to exist.

Ukrainian nationalists licked their lips at the idea of a war with the Russians before 2022, and before 2014, most likely since 1991, or even continuously since 1917.

And Russia’s genius idea was to give them that war?

Your idea to stop bloodshed is bloodshed

We live in an imperfect world.

Your idea is also a dumbass one.

So you support Ukrainians killing Russian collaborators ?

No, because I consider a Ukrainian victory undesirable.
I can't whine about it though.

Ok…

They didn’t.

Has Ukraine taken at least some steps towards the suppression of nationalism and the federalization of the country?
This sounds especially funny given that the Ukrainians constantly criticized these agreements, and recently Merkel explicitly said that these agreements "gave Kyiv time."
Ukraine looked at these agreements as a temporary truce, and not as a path to peace.

No. Germany looked at these agreements as a temporary truce.

And the fact they had no enthusiasm explains why there were Russian soldiers in the Donbas?

So that Ukrainians do not crush down Donbass, so that there is no triumph of pro-Western (semi) fascist Ukraine over Russian land.
Putin could not find a clear explanation of how this would be combined with his stories about "sovereign democracy."

However, Putin was clearly not against the "quiet-peaceful" inclusion of Donbass in Ukraine on non-humiliating terms.

So Putin is a hypocrite, and the Russians did have enthusiasm, got it.

You heard of a buffer zone? Yeah, obviously not.

The Baltics are in NATO, they are not far from the 2nd most important city of Russia.

So the idea was to have Sweden and Finland join NATO? Great job.

And hostile nationalist Ukraine, and not hostile nationalist Russia?

Russia is not nationalist.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Let’s say Russia succeeds; they will be surrounded by a more threatened NATO on a longer border.

However, NATO will be near Lvov, and not near Kursk.

NATO will be two steps away from Petersburg because Russia pissed Neutral Finland into joining NATO.

And NATO cannot be seriously afraid of the Russian invasion, we are too poor. All their "concerns" are either part of an offensive plan, or a plan to eat military budgets, or something else.

Russia invaded a non-NATO European country. How long before they invade NATO?

Well, Chechenya is part of Russia, so why can’t the Donbas be part of Ukraine?

That is, you admit that the Donbass is not a inalienable Ukrainian national territory?
In general, Chechnya has been given federal subsidies, language rights, autonomy...
Ukraine does not want to give this to Donbass.

No, I simply said, if you believe one, you must believe the other.

What has that got to do with anything?

This is to talk about the meaninglessness of deaths, and in principle actions. If a Russian dies meaninglessly, then a Ukrainian dies even more meaninglessly. A Ukrainian is better in Prague than in Berdyansk, in theory.

Still no idea what you’re waffling about.

They would. They did.

That is, they had no intention of making noise, and they would like to just continue to line their pockets from trading with the West, but the West did not let them do this further?

“iT’s AlL tEh WeSt’S fAuLt”

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Daily reminder, en gang til for prins knud...
Chechnya has a comparable GDPPC to "bastions of wealth" like Haiti and Zimbabwe, while Russia's fossil fuel colonies sport hilariously inflated GDPPC data. Whose fault is this?

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

"Azov is not fascist!", they say. "Azov is freedom fighting organization!", they say. All the while, Azov laughs as most of its members continue to be connected to far-right neo-nazi groups.

Of course it’s fascist. But Russia simply gave a reason for the group to exist.

Fascists are fascists. They're bad regardless of who they fight for or who they believe in. "Reasons" don't matter when the result is Nazis.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

Daily reminder, en gang til for prins knud...
Chechnya has a comparable GDPPC to "bastions of wealth" like Haiti and Zimbabwe, while Russia's fossil fuel colonies sport hilariously inflated GDPPC data. Whose fault is this?

Areas that are richer and provide more direct economic resources to the nation have higher GDP per capitas than regions that don't... is... that what you're trying to say? Or are you saying "inflated" as in "economic inflation", as in "there is less value in their GDPP/C"?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Daily reminder, en gang til for prins knud...
Chechnya has a comparable GDPPC to "bastions of wealth" like Haiti and Zimbabwe, while Russia's fossil fuel colonies sport hilariously inflated GDPPC data. Whose fault is this?

Areas that are richer and provide more direct economic resources to the nation have higher GDP per capitas than regions that don't... is... that what you're trying to say? Or are you saying "inflated" as in "economic inflation", as in "there is less value in their GDPP/C"?

I do not talk to neoliberals.

[The Rio Grande River Basin]

Of course it’s fascist. But Russia simply gave a reason for the group to exist.

Fascists are fascists. They're bad regardless of who they fight for or who they believe in. "Reasons" don't matter when the result is Nazis.

That's all well and good if I didn't also hate Azov equally as much as I do the Jan 6 rioters, or Stalinists, etc.

[Russian SPD]

And Russia’s genius idea was to give them that war?

They would have started a war anyway, crushing the Donbass and clearing the region of Russian culture.
Such stuff would shake the legitimacy of the regime, and besides, it would create a direct military threat in the form of Ukraine.

Your idea is also a dumbass one.

I am sure that your idea is that the Russian Federation should capitulate. I'm no worse than you.

No. Germany looked at these agreements as a temporary truce.

Ukraine was of the same opinion. Again, did they really fight against nationalism? Did they withdraw troops from the line of contact as expected? Did they take steps towards federalization? Could their system give real guarantees of amnesty to the rebels?
No.

So Putin is a hypocrite, and the Russians did have enthusiasm, got it.

I believe this is true.
Although, maybe Putin also felt a military threat from the West, but this does not quite apply to the case of Donbass, from a military point of view, a non-bloc Ukraine is not bad.

So the idea was to have Sweden and Finland join NATO? Great job.

These countries are not completely neutral, + St. Petersburg is already under threat because of Estonia

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Actually, yes. Russian ethno-nationalism is usually suppressed by the authorities; Nationalists are dissatisfied with the effect of Art. 282 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, and non-Russian diasporas, apparently, have something that they should not have in a healthy society.

NATO will be two steps away from Petersburg because Russia pissed Neutral Finland into joining NATO.

Estonia.
And Finland has no real reason to be afraid of Russia, the situation here is far from the same as with Ukraine; it's just a display of Finnish hostility.

Russia invaded a non-NATO European country. How long before they invade NATO?

Infinitely long. Russia has no real chance of defeating NATO in a conventional battle, and everyone except Russian turbopatriots and Western hysterics knows this.

No, I simply said, if you believe one, you must believe the other.

The situations are too different.
If Ukraine made concessions to the regions, then I would just silently look at it and go about other things, I would not protest against a peaceful, neutral, federal and non-fascist Ukraine. But they chose the degenerate path, unfortunately.

Still no idea what you’re waffling about.

If Ukrainians love Europe so much, then why are they rushing not to go there, but to keep the troubled Donbass under control?

That is, they had no intention of making noise, and they would like to just continue to line their pockets from trading with the West, but the West did not let them do this further?

“iT’s AlL tEh WeSt’S fAuLt”

You can't disprove the truth just by wRiTNg It LiKe ThIs.
You agreed that the Russian lords would be happy to just sit on the throne and watch the dollars flow into their pockets, didn't you? So why can't you add 2 + 2 and admit that they were forced to act by external circumstances?

Capital avoids turbulence and strife and lack of profit, doesn't it?
A calm and civil "burial" of the Donbass problem, a tranquil western border and normal seat at the table with "respectable partners" would give them peace and the opportunity to continue trading with the West, while a fight would only give them problems. Please tell me what they would choose if they had a choice?

And please do not write that Putin is a tsarist, a Stalinist, an Ultrafascist, a National-Revanchist, a Duginist... anything like that. They have no ideology, United Russia is a centrist party. And if Putin was a schizo, then he would be somewhere, but not in power.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

Fascists are fascists. They're bad regardless of who they fight for or who they believe in. "Reasons" don't matter when the result is Nazis.

That's all well and good if I didn't also hate Azov equally as much as I do the Jan 6 rioters, or Stalinists, etc.

January 6th and Stalinism has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

Areas that are richer and provide more direct economic resources to the nation have higher GDP per capitas than regions that don't... is... that what you're trying to say? Or are you saying "inflated" as in "economic inflation", as in "there is less value in their GDPP/C"?

I do not talk to neoliberals.

Ah, never change, Austria-Bohemia-Moravia-Galicia-Lodomeria-Bukovina-Slavonia-Croatia-Dalmatia-Bosnia-Herzegovina-Hungary.

[El Lazaro]

Of course it’s fascist. But Russia simply gave a reason for the group to exist.

Fascists are fascists. They're bad regardless of who they fight for or who they believe in. "Reasons" don't matter when the result is Nazis.

The topic is the Russian invasion of Ukraine, not your own personal shortcomings.

[Querria]

Pointless? It will determine the future of the country for years to come.
As for the rights to the land, I'm too lazy to argue, especially with formal-legal and pro-Western guys like you.
In a rather gloomy (and most realistic) case for me, if 2 corrupt oligarchies are now fighting, the Ukrainian dies more stupidly: the Russian is more attached to the land, while the Ukrainian would be better off leaving for the holy EU, because there he will surely receive 300,000 euros in a millisecond, breathing air filled with molecules of freedom.

my poster in christ, what the fuck does that even mean?

Forty-Two.