How I talk to teenage boys about rejecting toxic masculinity

[Mountains and Volcanoes]

It would be better to teach women how to reject toxic men.

”Teaching women” how androcentric of you...

[Mountains and Volcanoes]

”Teaching women” how androcentric of you...

Seeing how so many "men" are becoming women, and not the other way around,

”Becoming women” = Be comfortable in their identity, “Not the other wary around” = Trans men: EXCUSE US!?

they probably don't need to be taught to be tough. But it doesn't hurt.

”But it doesn’t hurt”, domestic abuse victims would say otherwise!

[Stellar Colonies]

It would be better to teach women how to reject toxic men.

”Teaching women” how androcentric of you...

You do know that phrasing it like this will probably just result in people throwing the mirrored version of the same thing back into your face?

[Reorganized Akros]

”Teaching women” how androcentric of you...

You do know that phrasing it like this will probably just result in people throwing the mirrored version of the same thing back into your face?

Well, it's pretty old how only guys are held accountable and never girls. For anything at all.

[Mountains and Volcanoes]

”Teaching women” how androcentric of you...

You do know that phrasing it like this will probably just result in people throwing the mirrored version of the same thing back into your face?

I know... but that’s their decision, not mine.

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

It would be better to teach women how to reject toxic men.

yes, and we could also try raising fewer toxic men.

[Stellar Colonies]

You do know that phrasing it like this will probably just result in people throwing the mirrored version of the same thing back into your face?

Well, it's pretty old how only guys are held accountable and never girls. For anything at all.

It’s true that too many discussions of “toxic masculinity” (including that godawful term and the mentality often associated with its use) tend to be solely structured around how men can assist women while neglecting how the phenomenon, which that phrase is a clumsy description for, harms men, but the basic goal of stripping away gender norms harming both men and women, including the “men should be tough to the point of damaging their mental health” one imposed upon men by other men (and women), is a very good one.

Its focus just needs to be on actually helping those men as opposed to it only being designed to service the needs of women by association, which this program could be doing adequately as is.

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

yes, and we could also try raising fewer toxic men.

That would take the fun out of life. I definitely don't want sensitive men.

I’m actually having trouble telling whether or not you’re joking.

[Ancient Samaria]

We need fewer toxic people in general, not just the men. And fewer toxic influences and relationships, I might add.

[The Lone Alliance]

The problem isn't that men don't cry it's that ultimately the world doesn't care if men cry. What's the point of telling a man it's okay to cry when the only thing they'll get is "Oh wow a man crying that's new" and the crying never leads to the hurt that caused the crying being resolved because ultimately people don't care.

[Delvian States]

The problem isn't that men don't cry it's that ultimately the world doesn't care if men cry. What's the point of telling a man it's okay to cry when the only thing they'll get is "Oh wow a man crying that's new" and the crying never leads to the hurt that caused the crying being resolved because ultimately people don't care.

Actually, the same women that urge men to be vulnerable to them often use it against them later to humiliate and belittle them. Just a relevant point. Tends to erode trust, wouldn't you say?

[The Lone Alliance]

The problem isn't that men don't cry it's that ultimately the world doesn't care if men cry. What's the point of telling a man it's okay to cry when the only thing they'll get is "Oh wow a man crying that's new" and the crying never leads to the hurt that caused the crying being resolved because ultimately people don't care.

Actually, the same women that urge men to be vulnerable to them often use it against them later to humiliate and belittle them. Just a relevant point. Tends to erode trust, wouldn't you say?

Yeah I've watched someone become a destroyed wretched shell of a person after emotional damage because they were raised to be "Not toxic" but they had the bad luck to get on the bad side of toxic femininity. The sick standards of society works to justify the toxic masculinity mindset.

Really whenever I see someone open up a toxic masculinity talk with "Men are told never to show their feelings" I have to ask where they're hearing that because at least the past 20 years that has not been what has been encouraged and if anything it's been discouraged outside of certain cultural groups in the west, and yes while those groups do need to change that, I still think ultimately society itself doesn't want an end to toxic masculinity. Because it's easier that way. It's easier and safer to simply typecast men as insensitive assholes.

[San Marlindo]

Ugh. When I was in school occasionally we’d have middle class pricks come and “talk” to us about shite - usually something the dopey teachers believed to be the crisis of the day. Normally these individuals got called puffs and had their cars keyed.

This kind of thing is just out of touch and another non-profit grift.

Everyone knows what the problem is/are but doesn’t want to talk about it/them.

This.

It is out of touch.

[San Marlindo]

The problem isn't that men don't cry it's that ultimately the world doesn't care if men cry. What's the point of telling a man it's okay to cry when the only thing they'll get is "Oh wow a man crying that's new" and the crying never leads to the hurt that caused the crying being resolved because ultimately people don't care.

Actually, the same women that urge men to be vulnerable to them often use it against them later to humiliate and belittle them. Just a relevant point. Tends to erode trust, wouldn't you say?

This depends heavily on the woman as an individual. Also worth noting abusive male partners are capable of the same nastiness.

Some people honestly do want their partners to open up to them more emotionally, some intentionally prefer partners that are less emotional, and some prefer some mixture of two. Your mileage may vary.

[Thepeopl]

Every child should be taught confidence, caring for themselves and others, patience, how to listen and how to express their feelings/ emotions.

All adults should know how to love, thrive, feel secure, be responsible and competent. How to communicate honestly, openly with curiosity.

We can start by stopping to treat others differently based on sex. Teach children the value of self defence and compassion.

[Aerlanica]

From reading this post, talking with a few people, and reading some stuff, I've come up with a dangerous thing called "An Opinion", an opinion which, in all seriousness, may get me crucified.

In my opinion I feel like this whole thing has been created from applying the actions of an unrepresentative minority as characteristics to a larger whole, and such generalisation has thrown us into a world of hurt. Now I'm not saying that men shouldn't be told to be willing to open up their feelings in a safe space, but those "safe spaces" aren't your local Starbucks or those cushy pillow corners your college throws together as part of their "all talk no walk" agenda of "making an inclusive community", those safe spaces should be, unsurprisingly, the offices of therapists and councilours and trained professionals who will give people who feel lost and alone and scared the help they need.

Furthermore, if we're having time taken out of classes in an already lackluster (at best) education system to inform men how they can reject toxic masculinity, do so for women as well to reject toxic femininity when these kids could be learning about critical thinking, problem solving, evaluative skills and other cognitive skills. After all, there is a (hopefully) well known situation in which young boys are increasingly unwilling or unable to pursue higher education, or are not completing said education.

If a boy is less intelligent, lacks the necessary social and educational support, and lacks critical thinking skills and is repetitively told by hardline feminists antagonistically that he is the problem, that he is useless, that he is not needed and he is the enemy or the other, he will be more easily swayed by influential individuals who come off as successful and charismatic. Take Andrew Tate the human trafficking asshole for example; kickboxer, muscular, expensive cars, wears nice clothes, and tells boys "hey, be an alpha, women are beneath you, reject them, you are superior to them"...don't you think that's going to be mighty persuasive to these boys who aren't able to think critically enough to scoff at that, in a world where they are stereotyped as dumb brutes who are always one upped by women in the media, that's going to be extremely persuasive? For petes sake, the man's practically feeding them crack on a spoon laced with MSD, they're going to be scoffing that up like chocolate cake at breakfast because who else is giving them a helping hand?

Ultimately, I feel like we're missing the larger problem; by simply chalking up boys falling for these people as "toxic masculinity" and something inherently part of men that needs to be "fixed", we're only helping to breed toxic masculinity. It's not men that needs a reshuffle, it's society that need a reshuffle to finally, for god sakes, become egalitarian, and do away with these things.

The only problem is toxic masculinity and the controversy that comes with it is so, so bloody profitable for the media, that I have a hard time believing the tune is going to change. Afterall, controversy pays.

[Aerlanica]

Every child should be taught confidence, caring for themselves and others, patience, how to listen and how to express their feelings/ emotions.

All adults should know how to love, thrive, feel secure, be responsible and competent. How to communicate honestly, openly with curiosity.

We can start by stopping to treat others differently based on sex. Teach children the value of self defence and compassion.

Whoever you are, I wish I could buy you a beer or a whiskey or your beverage of choice, because I wholeheartedly agree.

[Saiwania]

All adults should know how to love, thrive, feel secure, be responsible and competent. How to communicate honestly, openly with curiosity.

I'm not able to do any of this when I really think about it. Wouldn't people concede that in at least a few narrow circumstances or situations, that it is better to be ruthless enough to ward off challengers? Everyone else can be a potential rival or enemy. I don't trust letting any guard down.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

It is only ever all about women and what they want out of or from men. The boys are right to be skeptical if that is the case, if this is just another gynocentric plot to diminish the male roles and prospects.

- insert chudjak here

[Greater Cesnica]

All adults should know how to love, thrive, feel secure, be responsible and competent. How to communicate honestly, openly with curiosity.

I'm not able to do any of this when I really think about it. Wouldn't people concede that in at least a few narrow circumstances or situations, that it is better to be ruthless enough to ward off challengers? Everyone else can be a potential rival or enemy. I don't trust letting any guard down.

That's not how human beings work. Everyone needs to take a break at some point, even if only briefly.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

I'm not able to do any of this when I really think about it. Wouldn't people concede that in at least a few narrow circumstances or situations, that it is better to be ruthless enough to ward off challengers? Everyone else can be a potential rival or enemy. I don't trust letting any guard down.

That's not how human beings work. Everyone needs to take a break at some point, even if only briefly.

I thought the same when I was younger. I closed myself off to everyone and refused to let my guard down and let anybody in because I was afraid my already broken mind and heart would break even further. It was hell for me. I... admittedly still do it, yes, but I'm less closed off than I was before. There are not "challengers in life" around every corner ready to beat you to death or whatever. This is not an anime nor is it 4chan where random edgy /pol/lords will descend upon you for no reason and proceed to say ███████ 10 times in the same post.

[Indecent Anime Empire]

Why not just preach and teach humanism: the value of self reasoning rather than focusing on the importance of doubting oneself over a issue that they themselves can only change if they are confronted by it. Just be a decent human to living beings including yourself or continue spiraling in your reasonless chaos is a choice you are asking them to make when you ask some one to just feel, breath, calm down or any coping strategy that the majority of people hear. Circumstances, be there any, you have choices that are made day in and day out.

Some people have the cognitive start due to environmental aspects, some people needed that foundation but lack in any number of way and are coping by using their own(their past experiences) judgement to navigate the world. Everyone has their own limits and tolerances.

The old saying, "what would [insert moral figure here] do?", is still in play to most younger induvial but that moral figure will always be someone made up above and beyond that persons real expectation of themselves due to a given persons moral compass provided by their experiences unless reasoning of the value in self is there.

Did I miss anything?

My point? Not even sure if I understand moral toxicity any more than the next person but honestly no answer will be the perfect right answer.

[Repreteop]

I cry. Thats why I'm a woman now.

(Just kidding, I get MAD anyway)

[Saiwania]

Any ladies or even other men out there, lets be honest. Chances are you don't or won't truly respect any man that openly cries? John Boehner is one such person and look at all the mockery he gets? Deep down you know a male who falls apart like this has more inner turmoil/weakness than strength or perseverence and direction, the traits that people are more impressed by?

I would be remiss to not make clear how bad crying is for men. Sure, no one is so invincible that they can't ever release sadness, but at the least- find a time/place that is private enough that is away from other people? It is an invitation for them to attack or exploit how "down and out" you are if you let it be known.

[Galactic Powers]

Any ladies or even other men out there, lets be honest. Chances are you don't or won't truly respect any man that openly cries? John Boehner is one such person and look at all the mockery he gets? Deep down you know a male who falls apart like this has more inner turmoil/weakness than strength or perseverence and direction, the traits that people are more impressed by?

I would be remiss to not point out how bad crying is for men. Sure, no one is so invincible that they can't ever release sadness, but at the least- find a time/place that is private enough that is away from other people? It is an invitation for them to attack or exploit how "down and out" you are if you let it be known.

I have never agreed with you before but this is somewhat true. Society does not like or want a man that cries. While we teach men how to “express themselves” we should also be talking about how to get general society as well (including women, as they carry the stereotypical ideas of men as emotionless machines as well) to accept the men who do express themselves.