NationStates

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:47 am**

I hate the EU, I hate this idea.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:51 am**

Durius wrote:
Rakhalia wrote:The concept of a united European identity is interesting in the sense that it lives in the fevered, faux-nostalgia fever dreams of white identitarians, as well as the over-optimistic and naive euro-liberal academic royalty, and ultimately renders both groups analogous to extents that neither would be comfortable with. I, personally, would be opposed to any more codification of the imperialist, neoliberal bureaucratic hell that is the current EU.

So many buzzwords. So little content.

You can call them buzzwords, but the harm caused by what they describe actually happens, and you being dismissive about it doesn't change that.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:51 am**

All-British Union wrote:I hate the EU, I hate this idea.

Good. I would be more worried if people who love the EU hated this idea. Or the weirdest vice-versa!

Rakhalia wrote:You can call them buzzwords, but the harm caused by what they describe actually happens, and you being dismissive about it doesn't change that.

I'm dismissive of all non-constructive criticism. Try to actually make a proper point with proper examples and sources and I might consider you have a point worth addressing.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:32 am**

Durius wrote:
Hispida wrote:the EU as an entity to perform its duties (i.e. siphon shit from eastern europe and the middle east to fuel the west)

I'm always amazed by the capability people have to write the most idiotic crap, but you really showed us another example of that unfortunately too common mental diarrhea.

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:So how do we convince the right-wingers within these borders ?

Right-wingers or euroskeptics? Plenty of right-wingers support the EU, with many defending more integration. You can even find hard-right parties that defend the EU, though their usually view it as a white European bastion against the world. The point is: you don't really have to convince them; they see the benefits of the union and find their own justifications for why it should exist.

That all being said, your map is clearly ridiculous and I doubt you will find anyone near any position of influence trying to push for it.

Are there really right-wingers in your country who support the values of the European Union? If this is the case, good news, but there is no such thing in my country, right-wingers are anti-European Union.

Heloin wrote:
Arvenia wrote:Wait, Hakinda is a white nationalist?! I thought he was a Kemalist.

Sorry I didn’t make that clear. He’s a Turkish nationalist and deeply racist when anything that concerns non-turks in the middle east is to be considered. His opinions on Armenians and Arabs often strays just above the line of genocidal.

Heloin, you've started your slander business again, congratulations. I am not a genocidal fascist because I am Turkish. Get out of this fantasy world. Judge people not by their race, but by their thoughts and conscience.

Arvenia wrote:
Heloin wrote:If they want to, sure.

I mean, Hakinda also supports the idea for insanely racist reasons. His reasons are just focused more on exterminating Armenians and Kurds then a white nationalist Fortress Europa.

Wait, Hakinda is a white nationalist?! I thought he was a Kemalist.

Yes, I am a social democrat Kemalist, please do not listen to Heloin and her friends, they systematically attack me just because I am Turkish. It is truly disgusting to discriminate against a person based on their skin color and race.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:36 am**

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Are there really right-wingers in your country who support the values of the European Union?

In mine and in most of the EU. The main party in the Europarliament is the right-wing EPP, the conservative party and pro-EU, with most of the national parties that compose it also pro-EU. Even the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen is a member of EPP...

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:37 am**

To start off with, I don't believe in national sovereignty to begin with.

As a non-European looking in from the outside, the European Union really appears to be the one organisation, anywhere in the world, that is both concerned about contemporary threats to democracy and is powerful enough to actually do something about it.

I fully endorse a more tightly integrated European Union, in the hopes that it will continue to serve as a beacon of hope for the rest of us in the rest of the world.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:42 am**

Durius wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Are there really right-wingers in your country who support the values of the European Union?

In mine and in most of the EU. The main party in the Europarliament is the right-wing EPP, the conservative party and pro-EU, with most of the national parties that compose it also pro-EU. Even the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen is a member of EPP...

The EPP is basically Christian-democratic and liberal-conservative.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:42 am**

Durius wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Are there really right-wingers in your country who support the values of the European Union?

In mine and in most of the EU. The main europarty in the Europarliament is the right-wing EPP, the conservative party, and most of their member parties are pro-EU. Even the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen is a member of EPP...

Really good news. Turkey is very polarized and nobody likes anybody. That's why I don't like right-wingers. Turkish right-wing conservatives insist on being anti-European and you cannot solve it by talking, they are like a wall. Unfortunately, I am accused of being an agent of the European Union in my own country.
I will vote for the pro-European social democratic Kemalist party.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:44 am**

Arvenia wrote:
Durius wrote:In mine and in most of the EU. The main party in the Europarliament is the right-wing EPP, the conservative party and pro-EU, with most of the national parties that compose it also pro-EU. Even the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen is a member of EPP...

The EPP is basically Christian-democratic and liberal-conservative.

That sounds right-wing to me.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:45 am**

Durius wrote:
Arvenia wrote:The EPP is basically Christian-democratic and liberal-conservative.

That sounds right-wing to me.

The EPP is actually centre-right.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:51 am**

Arvenia wrote:
Durius wrote:That sounds right-wing to me.

The EPP is actually centre-right.

Center-right means that the wing they occupy is the right one. It's even more clear when there's already a centrist group like Renew Europe.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:53 am**

I think we should see if Europe can go a century without trying to genocide one another before we talk about a centralized European state.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:54 am**

Rusozak wrote:I think we should see if Europe can go a century without trying to genocide one another before we talk about a centralized European state.

Well, we're almost to 2045 after...

Remembers Yugoslavia

Ah, never mind.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:57 am**

Stellar Colonies wrote:
Rusozak wrote:I think we should see if Europe can go a century without trying to genocide one another before we talk about a centralized European state.

Well, we're almost to 2045 after...

Remembers Yugoslavia

Ah, never mind.

It is really a terrible finding that you equate Yugoslavia with the European Union. Those who stabbed yugoslavia are the division brought about by the ridiculous racist politics of the serbs, but here we are starting to unite.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:59 am**

Rusozak wrote:I think we should see if Europe can go a century without trying to genocide one another before we talk about a centralized European state.

If that was a requirement for a nation to form, there would be no US, not China, no Russia, no India, etc. Either way, a decentralized European state sounds a much better option.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:03 am**

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Stellar Colonies wrote:Well, we're almost to 2045 after...

Remembers Yugoslavia

Ah, never mind.
It is really a terrible finding that you equate Yugoslavia with the European Union. Those who stabbed yugoslavia are the division brought about by the ridiculous racist politics of the serbs, but here we are starting to unite.

- The thesis was "century since genociding each other".

- Republics subject to the Yugoslav Wars have been inducted into the European Union.

- Ergo, 'some Europeans were genociding each other less than a century ago'.

No universal equivocation involved.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:07 am**

As an European, in a Country which is part of the EU(even though the people have already been brainwashed by Russian propaganda), I personally support an idea of a unified European state, given that every nation and culture would retain some sovereignty. But of course, this idea would be very hard to realize, given that the V4 wants to keep to themselves and there’s the Russian dictatorship.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:11 am**

Rakhalia wrote:The concept of a united European identity is interesting in the sense that it lives in the fevered, faux-nostalgia fever dreams of white identitarians, as well as the over-optimistic and naive euro-liberal academic royalty, and ultimately renders both groups analogous to extents that neither would be comfortable with. I, personally, would be opposed to any more codification of the imperialist, neoliberal bureaucratic hell that is the current EU.

Not being an isolationist is racist because reasons, of course. Let’s keep a look out for pan-American racial nationalists, East African neo-Nazis, supporters of the Greater Caribbean Co-Prosperity Sphere, and so on while we’re at it. Anyone who who participates more directly in the affairs of neighbors than those in the other side of the world is probably a fascist counter-revolutionary.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:38 am**

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Stellar Colonies wrote:Well, we're almost to 2045 after...

Remembers Yugoslavia

Ah, never mind.
It is really a terrible finding that you equate Yugoslavia with the European Union. Those who stabbed yugoslavia are the division brought about by the ridiculous racist politics of the serbs, but here we are starting to unite.

Don't forget that Islamists did operate in Bosnia during the Yugoslav Wars.

BTW, I'm in for a confederal EU whose member-states are still independent, yet would unite against any threat (be it Russia or climate change).

El Lazaro wrote:
Rakhalia wrote:The concept of a united European identity is interesting in the sense that it lives in the fevered, faux-nostalgia fever dreams of white identitarians, as well as the over-optimistic and naive euro-liberal academic royalty, and ultimately renders both groups analogous to extents that neither would be comfortable with. I, personally, would be opposed to any more codification of the imperialist, neoliberal bureaucratic hell that is the current EU.

Not being an isolationist is racist because reasons, of course. Let’s keep a look out for pan-American racial nationalists, East African neo-Nazis, supporters of the Greater Caribbean Co-Prosperity Sphere, and so on while we’re at it. Anyone who who participates more directly in the affairs of neighbors than those in the other side of the world is probably a fascist counter-revolutionary.

Are there neo-Nazis in East Africa?

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:09 pm**

With the resurgence of the far-right in Europe, I don't think we need to be giving them a single centralised seat of power for the whole continent.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:14 pm**

I hate the EU. The EU is filled with American puppet career politicians who rig elections to cater to American corporations, woke ideology demagogues, and American national interests. The EU is nothing but a glorified union of American puppet states. God forbid it unifies.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:29 pm**

The Union of Socialist-Soviet Republics wrote:I hate the EU. The EU is filled with American puppet career politicians who rig elections to cater to American corporations, woke ideology demagogues, and American national interests. The EU is nothing but a glorified union of American puppet states. God forbid it unifies.

Do you want to see either far-right nationalists or left-wing politicians take control of the EU so that it would break away from the US?

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:34 pm**

Arvenia wrote:
The Union of Socialist-Soviet Republics wrote:I hate the EU. The EU is filled with American puppet career politicians who rig elections to cater to American corporations, woke ideology demagogues, and American national interests. The EU is nothing but a glorified union of American puppet states. God forbid it unifies.

Do you want to see either far-right nationalists or left-wing politicians take control of the EU so that it would break away from the US?

Both are good, I just want the EU to be Russia aligned or neutral aligned. Europe is a strong power, not a playground for another one.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:42 pm**

The Union of Socialist-Soviet Republics wrote:
Arvenia wrote:Do you want to see either far-right nationalists or left-wing politicians take control of the EU so that it would break away from the US?

Both are good, I just want the EU to be Russia aligned or neutral aligned. Europe is a strong power, not a playground for another one.

Russia aligned

not a playground for another [power]

hm

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:44 pm**

The Union of Socialist-Soviet Republics wrote:
Arvenia wrote:Do you want to see either far-right nationalists or left-wing politicians take control of the EU so that it would break away from the US?

Both are good, I just want the EU to be Russia aligned or neutral aligned. Europe is a strong power, not a playground for another one.

The EU is Russia aligned, in the sense that we have all our guns pointed at Moscow.

NationStates

The United States of Europe