Israeli Judicial Overhaul Resumes

[Fahran]

I've yet to see a modern far-leftist advocating for any sort of solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict without low-key hinting at ethnic cleansing in the most euphemistic ways possible.

I'll stand behind such a solution to the conflict where the response to "well, okay, what happens to the sabras?" is not some eerie silence accompanied by a knowing nod.

This sadly includes many Israeli Marxists as well.

A more moderate position advocating for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the West Bank is a touch more sensible and likely essential to preserve the viability of a realistic and fair two-state solution at this point, but there's a huge difference between resettling hundreds of thousands of Jews across a socially constructed line to the Palestinians can build their nation and moving millions of Jews across the Mediterranean so they don't get murdered.

To be entirely fair, there are documented cases of discrimination against Israeli Arabs; I recall reading about land development being put through unnecessarily complicated bureaucratic processes when it was Israeli Arabs in question, while Israeli Jews got their permits easier. I unfortunately don't have any links handy, as my thesis was a long time ago (and this was actually unrelated to the thesis topic, so I didn't document it well).

However, the whole "racism" debate reeks of Americans/Westerners trying to project their understanding of race and ethnicity onto other countries and regions.

I've likely read the sources in question in the past, and, yes, there's absolutely some level of discrimination present when it comes to Israeli policies surrounding government-owned land. It's probably one of the more egregious examples of institutional discrimination, but I think this is still a pretty far cry from the regime of apartheid in South Africa or Jim Crow in the United States. It definitely deserves to be called out, but it's not a system of institutionalized segregation on racial or ethnic grounds.

I think a proper discussion of ethnic and religious discrimination in Israel probably requires us to examine systemic discrimination within subpopulations of Jews and Arabs - since there's a lot of nuance present. Christian Urbanite Arabs, for instance, do far better in Israel than do Muslim Bedouins. Religious Mizrachim, on the other hand, are far less wealthy and educated than secular Ashkenazim, though this is, of course, with the caveat that all Jewish groups do better in Israel than they did in previous homelands.

[Fahran]

so basically rightists in israel are pulling an america and trying to establish a dictatorship?

Not quite. Bibi and his coalition were elected and can still lose power in future elections. They're just doing away with judicial independence, likely to ensure that Bibi doesn't face charges for corruption. I think the OP conflates two unrelated things to some extent.

great. just what we need. I’m sure we’ll keep supporting them too, because 10% of our government is right-wing hacks, 40% panders to right-wing hacks, and the other 50% are too cowardly and/or hamstrung to do anything.

Likud isn't really a far-right party in the context of Israeli politics despite its ostensible abandonment of the two-state solution in 2016. It's been the most prominent center-right party in the Knesset since it rose to prominence in the 1970s. Its second largest coalition partner, Shas, isn't neatly far-right either. It's a religious political party that represents Sephardi, Mizrachi, and Beta Yisrael interests and promotes social conservatism, Zionism, and economic egalitarianism as central pillars of its platform.

The main far-right presence in the coalition is Otzma Yehudit, a religious Zionist and Kahanist political party that split away from more moderate religious Zionist factions in the 2010s. They're currently playing a role similar to the one that used to belong to Yisrael Beiteinu, which defected to the opposition over policy disputes with Bibi and his corruption scandal. Yisrael Beiteinu was probably more openly racist than Likud historically, but Otzma Yehudit has earned the dubious distinction of being more racist than Yisrael Beiteinu - which is about expected of Kahanists.

[Vertisimia]

May Palestine be wiped off the map of the Levant

[Fahran]

Unfortunately, the Palestinians (and Arabs as a whole) don't really have much in the way of national consciousness. I'd say that's really evident from the fact that standard Arabic is just classical Arabic lol

MSA isn't the same as Classical Arabic. Beyond that, nobody actually speaks MSA anyhow. It was developed to allow for greater mutual intelligibility in media and literature, and all native speakers of Arabic initially learn a more localized dialect. If I recall correctly, three such dialects exist in Palestine.

Additionally, I would argue that the Levant represented one of the early hotbeds of Arab nationalist sentiment. Palestinian, though Palestinian didn't exist at that time as a distinct national identity, literary figures, poets, and activists played an important role in shaping the discourse surrounding Pan-Arabism.

Come to think of it, that really is like Latin being the universal language of pre-national Catholic Europe.

This might be more accurate than you know.

I was curious what your take on all of this would be. And like you, I'm eager to hear the takes of the people supporting this government

Well, for starters, I think Bibi is guilty of corruption and should stand trial for his crimes. So I'm not altogether keen on him sabotaging the Knesset multiple times and eliminating judicial independence in Israel to elude justice.

Beyond that, while I'm a spicy girl who occasionally says spicy things, I'm not enthusiastic about Kahanists playing the king-maker role that was once played by Avigdor Lieberman, who I always viewed as more racist towards Arabs than Bibi but a good counterweight to the religious parties. Since Yisrael Beiteinu is secularist, anti-clerical, and nationalist in its outlook, mostly appealing to Russian emigres.

I've also expressed dissatisfaction with Likud formally abandoning support for a two-state solution in 2016. It's more difficult to gauge public opinion in Israel and Palestine given answers change depending on how the question is asked, but I digress.

I'm not a fan of Bibi. I'm not a fan of Itamar Ben-Gvir. I'm not a fan of Otzma Yehudit. And, increasingly, I'm not a fan of Likud or Shas.

[Vistulange]

so basically rightists in israel are pulling an america and trying to establish a dictatorship?

Not quite. Bibi and his coalition were elected and can still lose power in future elections. They're just doing away with judicial independence, likely to ensure that Bibi doesn't face charges for corruption. I think the OP conflates two unrelated things to some extent.

great. just what we need. I’m sure we’ll keep supporting them too, because 10% of our government is right-wing hacks, 40% panders to right-wing hacks, and the other 50% are too cowardly and/or hamstrung to do anything.

Likud isn't really a far-right party in the context of Israeli politics despite its ostensible abandonment of the two-state solution in 2016. It's been the most prominent center-right party in the Knesset since it rose to prominence in the 1970s. Its second largest coalition partner, Shas, isn't neatly far-right either. It's a religious political party that represents Sephardi, Mizrachi, and Beta Yisrael interests and promotes social conservatism, Zionism, and economic egalitarianism as central pillars of its platform.

The main far-right presence in the coalition is Otzma HaYehudi, a religious Zionist and Kahanist political party that split away from more moderate religious Zionist factions in the 2010s. They're currently playing a role similar to the one that used to belong to Yisrael Beiteinu, which defected to the opposition over policy disputes with Bibi and his corruption scandal. Yisrael Beiteinu was probably more openly racist than Likud historically, but Otzma HaYehudi has earned the dubious distinction of being more racist than Yisrael Beiteinu - which is about expected of Kahanists.

I'm not even sure if placing Shas and UTJ on the political spectrum makes all that much sense. They're perhaps one of the most clientelistic parties as one can find in the whole world. Their relationship with the state of Israel is almost purely transactional: let the Haredim do as they please and live as they please, quasi-independent of the state, and they'll support a government. The fact that they're supporting the right-wing doesn't mean they're right-wing themselves: the left-wing in Israel has, among one of its goals, the secularisation of Israel and that's openly against what the Haredim want since it'll mean conscription for Haredim men, it'll mean having to pay taxes, it'll mean having to work instead of sitting around in yeshivot all day all week. Again, it's a transactional thing. It doesn't map cleanly to "protestant Evangelicals in the US".

[Fahran]

I'm not even sure if placing Shas and UTJ on the political spectrum makes all that much sense. They're perhaps one of the most clientelistic parties as one can find in the whole world. Their relationship with the state of Israel is almost purely transactional: let the Haredim do as they please and live as they please, quasi-independent of the state, and they'll support a government. The fact that they're supporting the right-wing doesn't mean they're right-wing themselves: the left-wing in Israel has, among one of its goals, the secularisation of Israel and that's openly against what the Haredim want since it'll mean conscription for Haredim men, it'll mean having to pay taxes, it'll mean having to work instead of sitting around in yeshivot all day all week. Again, it's a transactional thing. It doesn't map cleanly to "protestant Evangelicals in the US".

I completely agree with this assessment. Ideologically, the party most similar to Likud is probably Yisrael Beiteinu, which is in the opposition at the moment. UTJ and Shas pretty much side with Likud consistently only because it has prevented the conscription of yeshivah students by the IDF. This is what I meant when I referred to Bibi as a consummate political survivor. The man knows how to build a coalition at the very least.

I will say that Shas, beyond being a Charedi party, also plays an important role as the most prominent voice of Sephardi, Mizrachi, and Ethiopian Jews, though they haven't really been able to make consistent ground on that front given the Israeli bureaucracy and Likud's more economically liberal bent. So they haggle for what they can expect to receive. I mention this mostly because people expressed shock when I mentioned that I'd consider supporting Shas if I were Israeli.

[Vistulange]

I'm not even sure if placing Shas and UTJ on the political spectrum makes all that much sense. They're perhaps one of the most clientelistic parties as one can find in the whole world. Their relationship with the state of Israel is almost purely transactional: let the Haredim do as they please and live as they please, quasi-independent of the state, and they'll support a government. The fact that they're supporting the right-wing doesn't mean they're right-wing themselves: the left-wing in Israel has, among one of its goals, the secularisation of Israel and that's openly against what the Haredim want since it'll mean conscription for Haredim men, it'll mean having to pay taxes, it'll mean having to work instead of sitting around in yeshivot all day all week. Again, it's a transactional thing. It doesn't map cleanly to "protestant Evangelicals in the US".

I completely agree with this assessment. Ideologically, the party most similar to Likud is probably Yisrael Beiteinu, which is in the opposition at the moment. UTJ and Shas pretty much side with Likud consistently only because it has prevented the conscription of yeshivah students by the IDF. This is what I meant when I referred to Bibi as a consummate political survivor. The man knows how to build a coalition at the very least.

I will say that Shas, beyond being a Charedi party, also plays an important role as the most prominent voice of Sephardi, Mizrachi, and Ethiopian Jews, though they haven't really been able to make consistent ground on that front given the Israeli bureaucracy and Likud's more economically liberal bent. So they haggle for what they can expect to receive. I mention this mostly because people expressed shock when I mentioned that I'd consider supporting Shas if I were Israeli.

Sure. I don't quite follow why you'd support Shas unless you're Haredi yourself; I can see that making quite a bit of sense if you are, though. I mean, the whole point of the party is to preserve the Status Quo Agreement, no ifs and buts, to allow the lifestyle to continue exactly as it did in 1948, consequences on a macro level be damned. You probably want that if you're Haredi. If not, eh. May as well vote for whoever is going to deliver to you—if you're a Russian-speaker, that'd be Lieberman, if you're in some bumfuck developmental town out there in the Negev, probably Bibi—but not Shas.

More importantly and relevant to the thread, Shas and UTJ don't necessarily care about democracy in Israel...and I don't think they care about it being "Jewish", since from that particular point of view, Israel is not Jewish: it's the equivalent of a gentile state which happens to call itself "Israel". The Messiah hasn't returned and the Temple hasn't been rebuilt (or something along those lines; I'm not familiar with the theology, and frankly it's not all that important here) so by definition, the current State of Israel cannot be the true Israel.

So, what they do is just do their thing and treat Israel like any other gentile state: interact with its institutions only insofar as it allows them to continue their lifestyles. If "decolonisation" or whatever happened, they'd be doing the exact same with the Palestinian state as long as said Palestinian state cares to listen to them instead of murdering them for daring to be post-1948 Jews in Israel/Palestine.

[Fahran]

May Palestine be wiped off the map of the Levant

You shouldn't pray for evil things, friend.

[Judah]

I've yet to see a modern far-leftist advocating for any sort of solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict without low-key hinting at ethnic cleansing in the most euphemistic ways possible.

You will never, ever see a far-leftist advocate for any "solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian Arab conflict that isn't "Murder those dirty, shifty, oppressive Jews. Let the extremist, Islamofascist Palestinian groups (ESPECIALLY Hamas) stage a coup against the less extremist Fatah. Let them murder as many innocent people as possible - both Jew and Arab alike.

The far-left despises Jews, more so than the far-right at this point. If there's any group of people whose opinions should be discounted concerning this issue, it's the far-left. They're a bunch of uncivilized, inbred cavemen, just like the Islamofascists they support.

[Bovad]

I've yet to see a modern far-leftist advocating for any sort of solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict without low-key hinting at ethnic cleansing in the most euphemistic ways possible.

You will never, ever see a far-leftist advocate for any "solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian Arab conflict that isn't "Murder those dirty, shifty, oppressive Jews. Let the extremist, Islamofascist Palestinian groups (ESPECIALLY Hamas) stage a coup against the less extremist Fatah. Let them murder as many innocent people as possible - both Jew and Arab alike.

The far-left despises Jews, more so than the far-right at this point. If there's any group of people whose opinions should be discounted concerning this issue, it's the far-left. They're a bunch of uncivilized, inbred cavemen, just like the Islamofascists they support.

Because, as we all know, there is not a single german left on the planet now that we stopped the holocaust

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

I've yet to see a modern far-leftist advocating for any sort of solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict without low-key hinting at ethnic cleansing in the most euphemistic ways possible.

You will never, ever see a far-leftist advocate for any "solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian Arab conflict that isn't "Murder those dirty, shifty, oppressive Jews. Let the extremist, Islamofascist Palestinian groups (ESPECIALLY Hamas) stage a coup against the less extremist Fatah. Let them murder as many innocent people as possible - both Jew and Arab alike.

The far-left despises Jews, more so than the far-right at this point. If there's any group of people whose opinions should be discounted concerning this issue, it's the far-left. They're a bunch of uncivilized, inbred cavemen, just like the Islamofascists they support.

lmao

and your reasoning for claiming the far-left is rabidly anti-semitic as a whole is? I mean, presumably it’s really just “I need a reason to hate on leftism”, but how do you rationalize that?

[Great Britain eke Northern Ireland]

My only concern with Israel is how it’ll affect the United Kingdom, our influence and our relations. At most, I am concerned for the wider implications and impacts this’ll have for our allies and investments, such as Ukraine.

[Judah]

lmao

Oh no, I must've struck a nerve.

[and your reasoning for claiming the far-left is rabidly anti-semitic as a whole is? I mean, presumably it’s really just “I need a reason to hate on leftism”, but how do you rationalize that?

You don't want me to go through each and every far-left, anti-Semitic incident since the beginning of the 20th century, do you? You can look that up yourself, even though I suspect you know exactly what I'm referring to.

My only concern with Israel is how it’ll affect the United Kingdom, our influence and our relations. At most, I am concerned for the wider implications and impacts this’ll have for our allies and investments, such as Ukraine.

I would say not to worry, especially with regards to Ukraine. Their primary focus is battling Russian aggression and tyranny. Both the UK and Israel have been strongly pro-Ukraine, and Ukraine knows this.

[Philjia]

I've yet to see a modern far-leftist advocating for any sort of solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict without low-key hinting at ethnic cleansing in the most euphemistic ways possible.

You will never, ever see a far-leftist advocate for any "solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian Arab conflict that isn't "Murder those dirty, shifty, oppressive Jews. Let the extremist, Islamofascist Palestinian groups (ESPECIALLY Hamas) stage a coup against the less extremist Fatah. Let them murder as many innocent people as possible - both Jew and Arab alike.

The far-left despises Jews, more so than the far-right at this point. If there's any group of people whose opinions should be discounted concerning this issue, it's the far-left. They're a bunch of uncivilized, inbred cavemen, just like the Islamofascists they support.

Or they could have a two state solution with the 1967 borders. Or a confederation. Or a federation. However, first Israel would need to give up its ambitions of formally annexing the West Bank, and the Palestinians will need to come up with some sort of arrangement that will prevent Hamas immediately going to war with the PLO for dominance of Palestinian territory once Israel pulls out. However since Israel is currently in a fairly strong position and Palestine is in a very weak position there's very little chance of Israel deciding to abandon its plans for the West Bank by itself. Similarly, Hamas are presently in a strong position compared to the PLO and have no reason to offer them concessions. Its a situation that will very likely remain stagnant unless a very large outbreak of violence (And it will have to be large, everyone is very much inured to small scale death and suffering at this point) decisively tips the scales of Israeli dominance or forces them into a long term rethink of their strategy.

[Fahran]

lmao

and your reasoning for claiming the far-left is rabidly anti-semitic as a whole is? I mean, presumably it’s really just “I need a reason to hate on leftism”, but how do you rationalize that?

The far-left does and pretty much always had some degree of Antisemitism built into its ideology. Marx, by any modern standard, was an Anti-Semite, characterizing the fundamental essence of Jewish identity as "huckstering." This was likely influenced in part by his family's conversion to Lutheranism, but he nevertheless does not appear to have a high opinion of Jewish identity in his writing. Lenin was similarly ambivalent, implementing policies intended to emancipate Jews on the one hand while angling for their assimilation into a broader Soviet (Russian) identity. He, Trotsky, and Stalin viewed the Jewish Bund and Yiddishists were something approaching disdain. And we could continue.

I will say that Jews and those of Jewish ancestry have been well-represented on the political left and that I'm deeply apprehensive about the notion that the far-right is less dangerous to us than the far-left given both historical and recent events, but I don't really think it's controversial to say that a lot of the far-left has been either openly or covertly hostile to Jewish identity.

[Vistulange]

lmao

and your reasoning for claiming the far-left is rabidly anti-semitic as a whole is? I mean, presumably it’s really just “I need a reason to hate on leftism”, but how do you rationalize that?

The far-left does and pretty much always had some degree of Antisemitism built into its ideology. Marx, by any modern standard, was an Anti-Semite, characterizing the fundamental essence of Jewish identity as "huckstering." This was likely influenced in part by his family's conversion to Lutheranism, but he nevertheless does not appear to have a high opinion of Jewish identity in his writing. Lenin was similarly ambivalent, implementing policies intended to emancipate Jews on the one hand while angling for their assimilation into a broader Soviet (Russian) identity. He, Trotsky, and Stalin viewed the Jewish Bund and Yiddishists were something approaching disdain. And we could continue.

I will say that Jews and those of Jewish ancestry have been well-represented on the political left and that I'm deeply apprehensive about the notion that the far-right is less dangerous to us than the far-left given both historical and recent events, but I don't really think it's controversial to say that a lot of the far-left has been either openly or covertly hostile to Jewish identity.

I'm not aboard with the Judah bloke's characterisation of the entire left, partially because I myself am a leftist (even though the holier-than-thou left-wing on NSG sees it within their right to excommunicate me...and others like me), but a certain segment of the left definitely has an anti-Semitism problem.

And I do agree that it's to do with Marx's own anti-Semitism which, surprise surprise, has affected his theory. The bloke practically says something along the lines of "huckstering is the Jewish character" or something along those lines. I also recall something along the lines of "emancipating Jews from the character of Jewishness", referring to removing the capitalist/bourgeois/"huckstering" from Jews so that they may be emancipated in line with Marxist thought.

One could argue the intent is all well and good, except it's thoroughly rooted in anti-Semitic canards and tropes, so not so much.

[Khurkhogur]

You will never, ever see a far-leftist advocate for any "solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian Arab conflict that isn't "Murder those dirty, shifty, oppressive Jews. Let the extremist, Islamofascist Palestinian groups (ESPECIALLY Hamas) stage a coup against the less extremist Fatah. Let them murder as many innocent people as possible - both Jew and Arab alike.
The far-left despises Jews, more so than the far-right at this point. If there's any group of people whose opinions should be discounted concerning this issue, it's the far-left. They're a bunch of uncivilized, inbred cavemen, just like the Islamofascists they support.

Or they could have a two state solution with the 1967 borders. Or a confederation. Or a federation. However, first Israel would need to give up its ambitions of formally annexing the West Bank, and the Palestinians will need to come up with some sort of arrangement that will prevent Hamas immediately going to war with the PLO for dominance of Palestinian territory once Israel pulls out. However since Israel is currently in a fairly strong position and Palestine is in a very weak position there's very little chance of Israel deciding to abandon its plans for the West Bank by itself. Similarly, Hamas are presently in a strong position compared to the PLO and have no reason to offer them concessions. Its a situation that will very likely remain stagnant unless a very large outbreak of violence (And it will have to be large, everyone is very much inured to small scale death and suffering at this point) decisively tips the scales of Israeli dominance or forces them into a long term rethink of their strategy.

No, the situation will not remain stagnant. The situation will turn further and further to Israel's favor as they slowly but surely colonize whatever is left of Palestine. Eventually, the Palestinians will be driven out entirely, or to such an extent that any claim they might have to the West Bank will no longer be feasible and will consequently fade away. There is no pressure on Israel to let up or reach an agreement with the Palestinians. Not from their allies or from their (increasingly weak) enemies. Iran is the only country that could feasibly get in the way, but they don't have a real strategic interest in doing so or the resources and logistics necessary.
Vae victis I guess, but so much for the rule of law that the west loves to harp on about

[Dimetrodon Empire]

US military operation when?

Seriously, this is too far. it's time to kick all the ultranationalist camps out of power and re-establish liberal democracy in Israel.

Seems ironic that Israel is bringing ultranationalism to their country….

The sun is setting on democracy, and it is a worldwide trend.

[El Lazaro]

so basically rightists in israel are pulling an america and trying to establish a dictatorship?

great. just what we need. I’m sure we’ll keep supporting them too, because 10% of our government is right-wing hacks, 40% panders to right-wing hacks, and the other 50% are too cowardly and/or hamstrung to do anything.

Not really anything like January 6th. The insurrection was a crime, while this is basically a legal loophole to suspend the law. The 64 seat Knesset majority is large enough to ignore or override the majority of the constitution—expelling MKs and enacting a permanent state of emergency are among the few things which require a 2/3 majority. However, the Supreme Court also has the authority to determine what is constitutional; ergo, you can’t actually do this in practice.

This proposal would make it so the Knesset actually could do this and would only be constrained by how cohesive and ambitious the ruling coalition is. Additionally, given that Netanyahu would face serious legal problems if his coalition falls apart, he will likely make extreme concessions to the far-right fringe.

[Nilokeras]

lmao

and your reasoning for claiming the far-left is rabidly anti-semitic as a whole is? I mean, presumably it’s really just “I need a reason to hate on leftism”, but how do you rationalize that?

The far-left does and pretty much always had some degree of Antisemitism built into its ideology. Marx, by any modern standard, was an Anti-Semite, characterizing the fundamental essence of Jewish identity as "huckstering." This was likely influenced in part by his family's conversion to Lutheranism, but he nevertheless does not appear to have a high opinion of Jewish identity in his writing. Lenin was similarly ambivalent, implementing policies intended to emancipate Jews on the one hand while angling for their assimilation into a broader Soviet (Russian) identity. He, Trotsky, and Stalin viewed the Jewish Bund and Yiddishists were something approaching disdain. And we could continue.

I will say that Jews and those of Jewish ancestry have been well-represented on the political left and that I'm deeply apprehensive about the notion that the far-right is less dangerous to us than the far-left given both historical and recent events, but I don't really think it's controversial to say that a lot of the far-left has been either openly or covertly hostile to Jewish identity.

I think it's worth keeping in mind that Western culture and society was and still is very antisemitic in the same way Western culture and society is incredibly racist. The litmus test for determining individual culpability in antisemitism or that of whole movements should therefore be their relationship and reaction to that ambient antisemitism in their time and place of life. In an environment where the Black Hundreds were actively conducting pogroms, the Russian left was by far the most tolerant sector of society to Jewish people, and reflects their extensive participation in leftist movements like the Bund and the Bolshevik party. One can certainly argue about the tendency of lefitst regimes to dip into antisemitism to prosecute political enemies but I don't think there's really much of a contest about where the deepest rooted and central antisemitism in the political spectrum was located, and that wasn't on the left.

[El Lazaro]

The far-left does and pretty much always had some degree of Antisemitism built into its ideology. Marx, by any modern standard, was an Anti-Semite, characterizing the fundamental essence of Jewish identity as "huckstering." This was likely influenced in part by his family's conversion to Lutheranism, but he nevertheless does not appear to have a high opinion of Jewish identity in his writing. Lenin was similarly ambivalent, implementing policies intended to emancipate Jews on the one hand while angling for their assimilation into a broader Soviet (Russian) identity. He, Trotsky, and Stalin viewed the Jewish Bund and Yiddishists were something approaching disdain. And we could continue.

I will say that Jews and those of Jewish ancestry have been well-represented on the political left and that I'm deeply apprehensive about the notion that the far-right is less dangerous to us than the far-left given both historical and recent events, but I don't really think it's controversial to say that a lot of the far-left has been either openly or covertly hostile to Jewish identity.

I think it's worth keeping in mind that Western culture and society was and still is very antisemitic in the same way Western culture and society is incredibly racist. The litmus test for determining individual culpability in antisemitism or that of whole movements should therefore be their relationship and reaction to that ambient antisemitism in their time and place of life. In an environment where the Black Hundreds were actively conducting pogroms, the Russian left was by far the most tolerant sector of society to Jewish people, and reflects their extensive participation in leftist movements like the Bund and the Bolshevik party. One can certainly argue about the tendency of lefitst regimes to dip into antisemitism to prosecute political enemies but I don't think there's really much of a contest about where the deepest rooted and central antisemitism in the political spectrum was located, and that wasn't on the left.

The far-right and the far-left are two sides of the same nationalist, anti-Jewish coin.

[HISPIDA]

I think it's worth keeping in mind that Western culture and society was and still is very antisemitic in the same way Western culture and society is incredibly racist. The litmus test for determining individual culpability in antisemitism or that of whole movements should therefore be their relationship and reaction to that ambient antisemitism in their time and place of life. In an environment where the Black Hundreds were actively conducting pogroms, the Russian left was by far the most tolerant sector of society to Jewish people, and reflects their extensive participation in leftist movements like the Bund and the Bolshevik party. One can certainly argue about the tendency of lefitst regimes to dip into antisemitism to prosecute political enemies but I don't think there's really much of a contest about where the deepest rooted and central antisemitism in the political spectrum was located, and that wasn't on the left.

The far-right and the far-left are two sides of the same nationalist, anti-Jewish coin.

"both sides"

[Nilokeras]

I think it's worth keeping in mind that Western culture and society was and still is very antisemitic in the same way Western culture and society is incredibly racist. The litmus test for determining individual culpability in antisemitism or that of whole movements should therefore be their relationship and reaction to that ambient antisemitism in their time and place of life. In an environment where the Black Hundreds were actively conducting pogroms, the Russian left was by far the most tolerant sector of society to Jewish people, and reflects their extensive participation in leftist movements like the Bund and the Bolshevik party. One can certainly argue about the tendency of lefitst regimes to dip into antisemitism to prosecute political enemies but I don't think there's really much of a contest about where the deepest rooted and central antisemitism in the political spectrum was located, and that wasn't on the left.

The far-right and the far-left are two sides of the same nationalist, anti-Jewish coin.

Given where Jewish people ended up in their struggles for emancipation in places like Russia, they disagree with your assessment.

[El Lazaro]

The far-right and the far-left are two sides of the same nationalist, anti-Jewish coin.

Given where Jewish people ended up in their struggles for emancipation in places like Russia, they disagree with your assessment.

Purged by the Bolsheviks? Oh well, at least they didn’t put the “Jewish” “Autonomous” Oblast in Chukotka. The JAO is both ridiculously far away from Moscow and the weather is not an instant death sentence. Thank the Soviets for gifting “rootless cosmopolitans” the best location in all of Russia.

[Judah]

The far-right and the far-left are two sides of the same nationalist, anti-Jewish coin.

Given where Jewish people ended up in their struggles for emancipation in places like Russia, they disagree with your assessment.

I would strongly advise against speaking on behalf of Jews, especially with your disgusting Marx avatar.