How can you believe in evolution?

[Utherium]

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
[I Kings 7:23]


So wait, diameter 5 cubits, circumference of 30 cubits. C=pi*D, which means pi=C/D, so according to the Bible, pi equals 3.

Not sure we should trust something which doesn't even get a basic constant of maths right.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Lets not forget, a few thousand years ago, Science believed that everything revolved around the Sun and the world was flat.

No, PHILOSOPHY believed that everything revolved around the sun and the world was flat. Because the religions of the time believed this. Even then, the consensus amongst philosophers was not in agreement. Aristotle believed in a geocentric solar system and so did Ptolemy. Aristarchus of Samos believed (correctly) in a heliocentric solar system. Science didn't emerge until after the Renaissance, when alchemy and astrology started dying off, around the time of Kepler, Copernicus, Galileo, and Newton.

Also, the Earth DOES revolve around the sun so what exactly was he trying to prove? That scientists got it right 'a few thousand years ago', as if that's bad?

I read it the other way around. Now he just REALLY sounds out of it.

[Farnhamia]

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
[I Kings 7:23]


So wait, diameter 5 cubits, circumference of 30 cubits. C=pi*D, which means pi=C/D, so according to the Bible, pi equals 3.

Not sure we should trust something which doesn't even get a basic constant of maths right.

Well, to be fair, basic math was pretty dang basic back then. And the diameter was ten cubits, you know, not five. Your values make pi equal to six. That said, I would never read the Bible as a science text and I think it's a tad unfair to call out a collection of myths and legends and ancient chronicles for getting the value of pi wrong.

[Ifreann]

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
[I Kings 7:23]


So wait, diameter 5 cubits, circumference of 30 cubits. C=pi*D, which means pi=C/D, so according to the Bible, pi equals 3.

Not sure we should trust something which doesn't even get a basic constant of maths right.

Well, to be fair, basic math was pretty dang basic back then. And the diameter was ten cubits, you know, not five. Your values make pi equal to six. That said, I would never read the Bible as a science text and I think it's a tad unfair to call out a collection of myths and legends and ancient chronicles for getting the value of pi wrong.

If people do just take it as that, then you have a point. For the Biblical literalists(think Jack Chick) it's an excellent counter-argument.

[Farnhamia]

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
[I Kings 7:23]


So wait, diameter 5 cubits, circumference of 30 cubits. C=pi*D, which means pi=C/D, so according to the Bible, pi equals 3.

Not sure we should trust something which doesn't even get a basic constant of maths right.

Well, to be fair, basic math was pretty dang basic back then. And the diameter was ten cubits, you know, not five. Your values make pi equal to six. That said, I would never read the Bible as a science text and I think it's a tad unfair to call out a collection of myths and legends and ancient chronicles for getting the value of pi wrong.

If people do just take it as that, then you have a point. For the Biblical literalists(think Jack Chick) it's an excellent counter-argument.

I'd agree if it had ever shut one of them up. I imagine Jack Chick has had this pointed out to him many, many times, without the fact making the slightest bit of difference. Honestly, I don't know how I would go about countering a religious zealot of any stripe, since they can always fall back on the tried and true, it's a matter of faith, you can't analyze it with science.

[Xsyne]

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
[I Kings 7:23]


So wait, diameter 5 cubits, circumference of 30 cubits. C=pi*D, which means pi=C/D, so according to the Bible, pi equals 3.

Not sure we should trust something which doesn't even get a basic constant of maths right.

Well, to be fair, basic math was pretty dang basic back then. And the diameter was ten cubits, you know, not five. Your values make pi equal to six. That said, I would never read the Bible as a science text and I think it's a tad unfair to call out a collection of myths and legends and ancient chronicles for getting the value of pi wrong.

People had already calculated pi to around 3.14 by the time that was written.

[Self--Esteem]

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
[I Kings 7:23]


So wait, diameter 5 cubits, circumference of 30 cubits. C=pi*D, which means pi=C/D, so according to the Bible, pi equals 3.

Not sure we should trust something which doesn't even get a basic constant of maths right.

I am not an expert on theoretical mathematics, but isn't pi "evolving"? It started off with a 3, then digits were added, so that today, we end up with close to 1 trillion digits.

[Farnhamia]

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
[I Kings 7:23]


So wait, diameter 5 cubits, circumference of 30 cubits. C=pi*D, which means pi=C/D, so according to the Bible, pi equals 3.

Not sure we should trust something which doesn't even get a basic constant of maths right.

Well, to be fair, basic math was pretty dang basic back then. And the diameter was ten cubits, you know, not five. Your values make pi equal to six. That said, I would never read the Bible as a science text and I think it's a tad unfair to call out a collection of myths and legends and ancient chronicles for getting the value of pi wrong.

People had already calculated pi to around 3.14 by the time that was written.

I know, I almost threw something in about the Babylonians. You have to remember, though, the internet was very limited in those days and it wasn't so easy to find out the value of pi to even two decimal places. Besides, have you ever tried to do long division in cuneiform?

My point is, the Bible is not a science text and the authors of the various parts of it would be perplexed, I think, that modern believers take every word of it as absolutely and literally true. This is especially true about the history parts. The Books of Kings itself is a fairly late compilation from sources hundreds of years old at the time.

[Unchecked Expansion]

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
[I Kings 7:23]


So wait, diameter 5 cubits, circumference of 30 cubits. C=pi*D, which means pi=C/D, so according to the Bible, pi equals 3.

Not sure we should trust something which doesn't even get a basic constant of maths right.

I am not an expert on theoretical mathematics, but isn't pi "evolving"? It started off with a 3, then digits were added, so that today, we end up with close to 1 trillion digits.

It's not. It's the same number, but we manage to calculate more of it. Pi is a constant, but it's an irrational number with no end to the number of decimal places.

[Satirius]

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
[I Kings 7:23]


So wait, diameter 5 cubits, circumference of 30 cubits. C=pi*D, which means pi=C/D, so according to the Bible, pi equals 3.

Not sure we should trust something which doesn't even get a basic constant of maths right.

I am not an expert on theoretical mathematics, but isn't pi "evolving"? It started off with a 3, then digits were added, so that today, we end up with close to 1 trillion digits.

Pi was always pi, it's just that they are figuring out more and more of it.

[Tekania]

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
[I Kings 7:23]


So wait, diameter 5 cubits, circumference of 30 cubits. C=pi*D, which means pi=C/D, so according to the Bible, pi equals 3.

Not sure we should trust something which doesn't even get a basic constant of maths right.

I am not an expert on theoretical mathematics, but isn't pi "evolving"? It started off with a 3, then digits were added, so that today, we end up with close to 1 trillion digits.

It's not. It's the same number, but we manage to calculate more of it. Pi is a constant, but it's an irrational number with no end to the number of decimal places.

Exactly, no one ever has the "right" value of pie, merely a more accurate rounding of it.

[Utherium]

Well, to be fair, basic math was pretty dang basic back then. And the diameter was ten cubits, you know, not five. Your values make pi equal to six.

Yeah, that's my bad. Actually, had it right the first time (initially had written radius instead of diameter), changed radius to diameter, but didn't change the number

That said, I would never read the Bible as a science text and I think it's a tad unfair to call out a collection of myths and legends and ancient chronicles for getting the value of pi wrong.

I agree, this was kind of the point I was trying to get to. The Bible isn't a text book, it is a collection of stories and myths. My point was for those who think it is 100% accurate, it doesn't even have an accurate value of pi.

People had already calculated pi to around 3.14 by the time that was written.

Which surely makes the inaccuracy in a book, that some claim to be the infallible word of God even worse.

This is a very good video if people haven't seen it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWjtRFNSl2s

[Self--Esteem]

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
[I Kings 7:23]


So wait, diameter 5 cubits, circumference of 30 cubits. C=pi*D, which means pi=C/D, so according to the Bible, pi equals 3.

Not sure we should trust something which doesn't even get a basic constant of maths right.

I am not an expert on theoretical mathematics, but isn't pi "evolving"? It started off with a 3, then digits were added, so that today, we end up with close to 1 trillion digits.

It's not. It's the same number, but we manage to calculate more of it. Pi is a constant, but it's an irrational number with no end to the number of decimal places.

That's what I meant. It surely is a constant, but it's evolving in that we figure out more and more of the digits.

[Farnhamia]

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
[I Kings 7:23]


So wait, diameter 5 cubits, circumference of 30 cubits. C=pi*D, which means pi=C/D, so according to the Bible, pi equals 3.

Not sure we should trust something which doesn't even get a basic constant of maths right.

I am not an expert on theoretical mathematics, but isn't pi "evolving"? It started off with a 3, then digits were added, so that today, we end up with close to 1 trillion digits.

It's not. It's the same number, but we manage to calculate more of it. Pi is a constant, but it's an irrational number with no end to the number of decimal places.

That's what I meant. It surely is a constant, but it's evolving in that we figure out more and more of the digits.

Right. Pi is the symbol we use for the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter (and of the area of a circle to the square of its radius). It's an irrational number, meaning you can't express its value as a fraction m/n where m and n are integers. What's evolving, if that's the right word, is our ability to calculate te value. The value itself doesn't change.

[Wolffbaden]

Lets not forget, a few thousand years ago, Science believed that everything revolved around the Sun and the world was flat.

No, PHILOSOPHY believed that everything revolved around the sun and the world was flat. Because the religions of the time believed this. Even then, the consensus amongst philosophers was not in agreement. Aristotle believed in a geocentric solar system and so did Ptolemy. Aristarchus of Samos believed (correctly) in a heliocentric solar system. Science didn't emerge until after the Renaissance, when alchemy and astrology started dying off, around the time of Kepler, Copernicus, Galileo, and Newton.

Also, the Earth DOES revolve around the sun so what exactly was he trying to prove? That scientists got it right 'a few thousand years ago', as if that's bad?

Who knows. But he should get it right to begin with. There had actually been calculations done by Aristarchus to map the distance between the Earth and Sun, and to calculate the size of the Earth. He was remarkably not far off from the actual number.

[Tekania]

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
[I Kings 7:23]


So wait, diameter 5 cubits, circumference of 30 cubits. C=pi*D, which means pi=C/D, so according to the Bible, pi equals 3.

Not sure we should trust something which doesn't even get a basic constant of maths right.

Well, to be fair, basic math was pretty dang basic back then. And the diameter was ten cubits, you know, not five. Your values make pi equal to six. That said, I would never read the Bible as a science text and I think it's a tad unfair to call out a collection of myths and legends and ancient chronicles for getting the value of pi wrong.

People had already calculated pi to around 3.14 by the time that was written.

People had not actually calculated pi up to that point. Conventions were used which approach close to 3.14 (3.16 for Babylon and 3.12 for Egypt), but the first time an active theoretical calculation was attempted was in the 3rd century BC by Archimedes, two centuries after the writing of I King's.

[Stephen Colbert USA]

The better question is; is there any possible mention of pi in the NEW testament?

[Buffett and Colbert]

The better question is; is there any possible mention of pi in the NEW testament?

There must have been some in the Last Supper.

[Stephen Colbert USA]

The better question is; is there any possible mention of pi in the NEW testament?

There must have been some in the Last Supper.

Well, that's certainly the better of the two pi(e)s. Why can't we have a nice old political debate on that?

[Agadar]

The better question is; is there any possible mention of pi in the NEW testament?

There must have been some in the Last Supper.

Well, that's certainly the better of the two pi(e)s. Why can't we have a nice old political debate on that?

The jews were conservatives.

Conservatives killed Jesus.

Therefor, conservatives are evil.

[Geniasis]

Never have dinner with Jews. Remember what happened when Jesus did it.

Yeah, they kept arguing over how much to tip.

I still maintain that we should have tipped a 9% tip on the $200 dinner. It'd be $18, which is fair.

[Stephen Colbert USA]

The better question is; is there any possible mention of pi in the NEW testament?

There must have been some in the Last Supper.

Well, that's certainly the better of the two pi(e)s. Why can't we have a nice old political debate on that?

The jews were conservatives.

Conservatives killed Jesus.

Therefor, conservatives are evil.

You are liberal.

You're accusing Jews of being evil.

Therefore, you hate Jews.

Nazis hate Jews.

Therefore, liberals are Nazis.

[Stephen Colbert USA]

The better question is; is there any possible mention of pi in the NEW testament?

There must have been some in the Last Supper.

Well, that's certainly the better of the two pi(e)s. Why can't we have a nice old political debate on that?

The jews were conservatives.

Conservatives killed Jesus.

Therefor, conservatives are evil.

You are liberal.

You're accusing Jews of being evil.

Therefore, you hate Jews.

Nazis hate Jews.

Therefore, liberals are Nazis.

So Nazis aren't evil.

You said it, not me!

[Allbeama]

Still? lol no one is even answering him, it's like watching a political debate in here.

Because debating a creationist only succeeds in making his position look like it has any weight at all. It's been compared to playing chess with a pigeon.

[Agadar]

Still? lol no one is even answering him, it's like watching a political debate in here.

Because debating a creationist only succeeds in making his position look like it has any weight at all. It's been compared to playing chess with a pigeon.

I love that quote. Can't be bothered to look it up though. Something about a pigeon shitting all over the board and then flying to his fellow pigeons to brag about his 'victory'.