How can you believe in evolution?

[Unchecked Expansion]

And even then I would like to ask how you can get organisms having just all the needed traits and genes and capabilities in a suitable place? And it so happens that everything managed to fall perfectly into place, and organisms mostly appeared where they were best adapted to(I don't think you'll find a lot of dead birds in a lake who happened to be in the wrong place with the wrong traits.

I believe you are now being wilfully ignorant to the process.
Mutation and selection does not suddenly throw up a complete new trait, like wings or lungs. It starts with something small, which may or may not be useful. If it helps the organism survive, it's passed on and may develop further. There are a lot of failures along the way too - things do not fall into place, competitive and hostile environments force adaptation at the cost of the weak

How do they adapt?

Essentially?
Typos

[Karsol]

And even then I would like to ask how you can get organisms having just all the needed traits and genes and capabilities in a suitable place? And it so happens that everything managed to fall perfectly into place, and organisms mostly appeared where they were best adapted to(I don't think you'll find a lot of dead birds in a lake who happened to be in the wrong place with the wrong traits.

I believe you are now being wilfully ignorant to the process.
Mutation and selection does not suddenly throw up a complete new trait, like wings or lungs. It starts with something small, which may or may not be useful. If it helps the organism survive, it's passed on and may develop further. There are a lot of failures along the way too - things do not fall into place, competitive and hostile environments force adaptation at the cost of the weak

How do they adapt?

The members of a speices that have traits that aren't suited to the environment die out, and the ones that have traits that help them in their environment live on and breed. It can be that simple.

[Eternal Yerushalayim]

Yes, they grew more complex. Then why isn't every organism the same? Why must every species be unique? Because of natural selection? I doubt that natural selection simply managed to churn out life that could even be sustained and different. And how did life start developing? I don't think the pieces just fell together and created an organism that could live without any guidance from a designer. And even then, where did the basic building blocks of the world come from?

If they were all the same, they would all compete for the exact same resources.
Life gets easier for organisms that can survive on and where others can't, due to lack of competition.

You'd think a little common sense was all it takes to answer that, really...

As for that last question, that has nothing at all to do with evolution.
Evolution kicks in once those blocks come together and start making copies.

Where did the blocks come from?

[Cabra West]

And yes, thanks for coming in. Now, so they managed to become different, and the balance between organisms, always so delicate, always managed to be maintained for life to be sustained. If there had been more of this species, or more of the other, life would never be sustained. Still, if life managed to evolve in such a way that all species could survive, we have either a lot of luck or we always nmanaged to be on the right continent(which is rubbish to any good atheist who knows that all the continents were part of one big supercontinent in the beginning.)

Where do you see that management?
There are several times more species that went extinct than there are currently populating the planet.
The balance is not stable, it swings back and forth all the time, killing off species and creating new ecosystems and niches to be populated by others. If that's managed, management goes about it in a very ham-fisted way indeed....

And, no, there once was a mega-continent, but that wasn't "in the begining", is during one period in earth history.

[Eternal Yerushalayim]

And even then I would like to ask how you can get organisms having just all the needed traits and genes and capabilities in a suitable place? And it so happens that everything managed to fall perfectly into place, and organisms mostly appeared where they were best adapted to(I don't think you'll find a lot of dead birds in a lake who happened to be in the wrong place with the wrong traits.

I believe you are now being wilfully ignorant to the process.
Mutation and selection does not suddenly throw up a complete new trait, like wings or lungs. It starts with something small, which may or may not be useful. If it helps the organism survive, it's passed on and may develop further. There are a lot of failures along the way too - things do not fall into place, competitive and hostile environments force adaptation at the cost of the weak

How do they adapt?

The members of a speices that have traits that aren't suited to the environment die out, and the ones that have traits that help them in their environment live on and breed. It can be that simple.

How do they add new genes?

[Set the Unbound]

I had a flatmate once who was a born-again Creationist.

We discussed it with him, me kindly, other flatmates scornfully.

Creationist broke down one evening in tears, asking us "how could you destroy my faith like that". I felt bad but told him his couldn't be much of a faith since all the major churches were able to accept evolution and move on and he should too.

Three months later, he had developed schizophrenia and been committed to an institution.

The moral of the story?

Never come between a weak man and his Bronze-Age creation myth. Some people really need them.

[Cabra West]

Where did the blocks come from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

[Unchecked Expansion]

And even then I would like to ask how you can get organisms having just all the needed traits and genes and capabilities in a suitable place? And it so happens that everything managed to fall perfectly into place, and organisms mostly appeared where they were best adapted to(I don't think you'll find a lot of dead birds in a lake who happened to be in the wrong place with the wrong traits.

I believe you are now being wilfully ignorant to the process.
Mutation and selection does not suddenly throw up a complete new trait, like wings or lungs. It starts with something small, which may or may not be useful. If it helps the organism survive, it's passed on and may develop further. There are a lot of failures along the way too - things do not fall into place, competitive and hostile environments force adaptation at the cost of the weak

How do they adapt?

The members of a speices that have traits that aren't suited to the environment die out, and the ones that have traits that help them in their environment live on and breed. It can be that simple.

How do they add new genes?

Typos and Copy errors

I suggest you find some introductory reading to evolution. Maybe you should attempt to understand a theory you want to debunk

[Karsol]

And even then I would like to ask how you can get organisms having just all the needed traits and genes and capabilities in a suitable place? And it so happens that everything managed to fall perfectly into place, and organisms mostly appeared where they were best adapted to(I don't think you'll find a lot of dead birds in a lake who happened to be in the wrong place with the wrong traits.

I believe you are now being wilfully ignorant to the process.
Mutation and selection does not suddenly throw up a complete new trait, like wings or lungs. It starts with something small, which may or may not be useful. If it helps the organism survive, it's passed on and may develop further. There are a lot of failures along the way too - things do not fall into place, competitive and hostile environments force adaptation at the cost of the weak

How do they adapt?

The members of a speices that have traits that aren't suited to the environment die out, and the ones that have traits that help them in their environment live on and breed. It can be that simple.

How do they add new genes?

Breed with other populations, like a Northern european breeding with a Chinese woman, two different people adapted to different environments.
But you can get mutations of already existing genes that can input new genetic material into the gene-pool.

[Cabra West]

How do they add new genes?

You do know how procreation works? You know what a gamete is?
In that case, you will also have heard of the term "mutation", which really should answer your question...

[Cabra West]

Breed with other populations, like a Northern european breeding with a Chinese woman, two different people adapted to different environments.
But you can get mutations of already existing genes that can input new genetic material into the gene-pool.

Technically, that usually doesn't result in new genes, just in a new mix of existing ones.

New genes are generated when the copying of DNA results in errors.

[Eternal Yerushalayim]

And even then I would like to ask how you can get organisms having just all the needed traits and genes and capabilities in a suitable place? And it so happens that everything managed to fall perfectly into place, and organisms mostly appeared where they were best adapted to(I don't think you'll find a lot of dead birds in a lake who happened to be in the wrong place with the wrong traits.

I believe you are now being wilfully ignorant to the process.
Mutation and selection does not suddenly throw up a complete new trait, like wings or lungs. It starts with something small, which may or may not be useful. If it helps the organism survive, it's passed on and may develop further. There are a lot of failures along the way too - things do not fall into place, competitive and hostile environments force adaptation at the cost of the weak

How do they adapt?

The members of a speices that have traits that aren't suited to the environment die out, and the ones that have traits that help them in their environment live on and breed. It can be that simple.

How do they add new genes?

Breed with other populations, like a Northern european breeding with a Chinese woman, two different people adapted to different environments.
But you can get mutations of already existing genes that can input new genetic material into the gene-pool.

Thanks. But how did the organisms mutate into just what is right for a certain environment? And I believe that the first different genes not from the first ancestor were acquired through mutations, according to evolutionary theory?

[Big Jim P]

And even then I would like to ask how you can get organisms having just all the needed traits and genes and capabilities in a suitable place? And it so happens that everything managed to fall perfectly into place, and organisms mostly appeared where they were best adapted to(I don't think you'll find a lot of dead birds in a lake who happened to be in the wrong place with the wrong traits.

I believe you are now being wilfully ignorant to the process.
Mutation and selection does not suddenly throw up a complete new trait, like wings or lungs. It starts with something small, which may or may not be useful. If it helps the organism survive, it's passed on and may develop further. There are a lot of failures along the way too - things do not fall into place, competitive and hostile environments force adaptation at the cost of the weak

How do they adapt?

The members of a speices that have traits that aren't suited to the environment die out, and the ones that have traits that help them in their environment live on and breed. It can be that simple.

How do they add new genes?

Breed with other populations, like a Northern european breeding with a Chinese woman, two different people adapted to different environments.
But you can get mutations of already existing genes that can input new genetic material into the gene-pool.

Thanks. But how did the organisms mutate into just what is right for a certain environment? And I believe that the first different genes not from the first ancestor were acquired through mutations, according to evolutionary theory?

Those that didn't, didn't survive. How hard IS this?

[EvilDarkMagicians]

I truly don't understand how any intelligent, moral person can believe in evolution.
Evolution basically goes against every moral that the mighty lord has bestowed on us.

I become very frustrated when people say science is true, because we all know that the only objective truth is the holy bible.
Its sad to see so many people swayed by the devils lies.

[Eternal Yerushalayim]

And even then I would like to ask how you can get organisms having just all the needed traits and genes and capabilities in a suitable place? And it so happens that everything managed to fall perfectly into place, and organisms mostly appeared where they were best adapted to(I don't think you'll find a lot of dead birds in a lake who happened to be in the wrong place with the wrong traits.

I believe you are now being wilfully ignorant to the process.
Mutation and selection does not suddenly throw up a complete new trait, like wings or lungs. It starts with something small, which may or may not be useful. If it helps the organism survive, it's passed on and may develop further. There are a lot of failures along the way too - things do not fall into place, competitive and hostile environments force adaptation at the cost of the weak

How do they adapt?

The members of a speices that have traits that aren't suited to the environment die out, and the ones that have traits that help them in their environment live on and breed. It can be that simple.

How do they add new genes?

Breed with other populations, like a Northern european breeding with a Chinese woman, two different people adapted to different environments.
But you can get mutations of already existing genes that can input new genetic material into the gene-pool.

Thanks. But how did the organisms mutate into just what is right for a certain environment? And I believe that the first different genes not from the first ancestor were acquired through mutations, according to evolutionary theory?

Those that didn't, didn't survive. How hard IS this?

Then show me proof of birds evolving in pools and dying. Or something like that, if you get my gist.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

Then show me proof of birds evolving in pools and dying. Or something like that, if you get my gist.

Wat?

[Eternal Yerushalayim]

I truly don't understand how any intelligent, moral person can believe in evolution.
Evolution basically goes against every moral that the mighty lord has bestowed on us.

I become very frustrated when people say science is true, because we all know that the only objective truth is the holy bible.
Its sad to see so many people swayed by the devils lies.

Nonsense. Science is the only thing that can save us from vile superstition and baseless speculations of theologians. Science is the only way to show people the truth, regardless of religion. Unfortunately, some people are beginning to accept theories as "scientific" orthodoxy.

[Unchecked Expansion]

Then show me proof of birds evolving in pools and dying. Or something like that, if you get my gist.

You still have no idea how this works, do you?

Nevertheless, how does a cleft palate, diabetes or sickle cell anaemia stand? All examples of mutated genes which are harmful, not helpful.

Although the malaria/sickle cell anaemia interaction shows examples of differences in environment imposing different selective pressures

[Set the Unbound]

I truly don't understand how any intelligent, moral person can believe in evolution.
Evolution basically goes against every moral that the mighty lord has bestowed on us.

I become very frustrated when people say science is true, because we all know that the only objective truth is the holy bible.
Its sad to see so many people swayed by the devils lies.

Nonsense. Science is the only thing that can save us from vile superstition and baseless speculations of theologians. Science is the only way to show people the truth, regardless of religion. Unfortunately, some people are beginning to accept theories as "scientific" orthodoxy.

Sounds like you're bearing false witness there, fellow.

[Eternal Yerushalayim]

I truly don't understand how any intelligent, moral person can believe in evolution.
Evolution basically goes against every moral that the mighty lord has bestowed on us.

I become very frustrated when people say science is true, because we all know that the only objective truth is the holy bible.
Its sad to see so many people swayed by the devils lies.

Nonsense. Science is the only thing that can save us from vile superstition and baseless speculations of theologians. Science is the only way to show people the truth, regardless of religion. Unfortunately, some people are beginning to accept theories as "scientific" orthodoxy.

Sounds like you're bearing false witness there, fellow.

The subject of the beginning of life is very touchy, I think we should postpone making anything a fact before making a time machine...

[Big Jim P]

And even then I would like to ask how you can get organisms having just all the needed traits and genes and capabilities in a suitable place? And it so happens that everything managed to fall perfectly into place, and organisms mostly appeared where they were best adapted to(I don't think you'll find a lot of dead birds in a lake who happened to be in the wrong place with the wrong traits.

I believe you are now being wilfully ignorant to the process.
Mutation and selection does not suddenly throw up a complete new trait, like wings or lungs. It starts with something small, which may or may not be useful. If it helps the organism survive, it's passed on and may develop further. There are a lot of failures along the way too - things do not fall into place, competitive and hostile environments force adaptation at the cost of the weak

How do they adapt?

The members of a speices that have traits that aren't suited to the environment die out, and the ones that have traits that help them in their environment live on and breed. It can be that simple.

How do they add new genes?

Breed with other populations, like a Northern european breeding with a Chinese woman, two different people adapted to different environments.
But you can get mutations of already existing genes that can input new genetic material into the gene-pool.

Thanks. But how did the organisms mutate into just what is right for a certain environment? And I believe that the first different genes not from the first ancestor were acquired through mutations, according to evolutionary theory?

Those that didn't, didn't survive. How hard IS this?

Then show me proof of birds evolving in pools and dying. Or something like that, if you get my gist.

As has been pointed out (probably many time in this thread alone) evolution and mutation DO NOT work that way.

[Dyakovo]

Anything. But now what evolutionists are saying is that we somehow managed to develop such complex genes and traits that have allowed us to survive for such a long time by accident(aka natural selection) Of course, another nice alternative would be that we evolved into simpler organisms from a complex ancestor with all the genes necessary for such diversity.But why would I want to become simpler?

It's simple - we didn't survive with complex genes for such a long time. We're young. We're new. Now, if you were a shark or alligator, you could ask that question. But, quite simply, life survived with basic genes for a very long time. Over that staggeringly long time, genes grew more complex. The most successful survived, the least successful didn't.

By the way, although there is no evidence that life started with complexity, don't assume that nothing ever evolves from complex to simple. Simplicity can work. Look at all the blind fish and lizards that are found in caves - they dropped an incredibly complex organism because it was useless, while a simpler form worked just as well

Yes, they grew more complex. Then why isn't every organism the same? Why must every species be unique? Because of natural selection? I doubt that natural selection simply managed to churn out life that could even be sustained and different. And how did life start developing? I don't think the pieces just fell together and created an organism that could live without any guidance from a designer. And even then, where did the basic building blocks of the world come from?

We do not have the means to answer that, and to hypothesis with out the mearest hint of testable data draws upon conclusions of utmost fantasy.

Or just refuse to hear, since there can never be supernatural beings bacause... because, I just refuse! Religion is always fake! And Shut Up Now , Evolution shall forever be a fact, and creationism shall always be a myth!

Ummm...
Evolution is a fact and creationism is a myth...
But then your strawman is just ridiculous because evolution being fact does not make the existence of a deity or deities impossible. The Theory of Evolution doesn't address the question at all, what with there being no way to scientifically test for a deity.

[Eternal Yerushalayim]

And even then I would like to ask how you can get organisms having just all the needed traits and genes and capabilities in a suitable place? And it so happens that everything managed to fall perfectly into place, and organisms mostly appeared where they were best adapted to(I don't think you'll find a lot of dead birds in a lake who happened to be in the wrong place with the wrong traits.

I believe you are now being wilfully ignorant to the process.
Mutation and selection does not suddenly throw up a complete new trait, like wings or lungs. It starts with something small, which may or may not be useful. If it helps the organism survive, it's passed on and may develop further. There are a lot of failures along the way too - things do not fall into place, competitive and hostile environments force adaptation at the cost of the weak

How do they adapt?

The members of a speices that have traits that aren't suited to the environment die out, and the ones that have traits that help them in their environment live on and breed. It can be that simple.

How do they add new genes?

Breed with other populations, like a Northern european breeding with a Chinese woman, two different people adapted to different environments.
But you can get mutations of already existing genes that can input new genetic material into the gene-pool.

Thanks. But how did the organisms mutate into just what is right for a certain environment? And I believe that the first different genes not from the first ancestor were acquired through mutations, according to evolutionary theory?

Those that didn't, didn't survive. How hard IS this?

Then show me proof of birds evolving in pools and dying. Or something like that, if you get my gist.

As has been pointed out (probably many time in this thread alone) evolution and mutation DO NOT work that way.

If it does not, natural selection is probably just an unneeded process, is it not? And that would be a disaster. We need natural selection, kick-started and guided by God, in order to maintain the balance of life.

[Dyakovo]

And even then I would like to ask how you can get organisms having just all the needed traits and genes and capabilities in a suitable place? And it so happens that everything managed to fall perfectly into place, and organisms mostly appeared where they were best adapted to(I don't think you'll find a lot of dead birds in a lake who happened to be in the wrong place with the wrong traits.

I believe you are now being wilfully ignorant to the process.
Mutation and selection does not suddenly throw up a complete new trait, like wings or lungs. It starts with something small, which may or may not be useful. If it helps the organism survive, it's passed on and may develop further. There are a lot of failures along the way too - things do not fall into place, competitive and hostile environments force adaptation at the cost of the weak

How do they adapt?

The members of a speices that have traits that aren't suited to the environment die out, and the ones that have traits that help them in their environment live on and breed. It can be that simple.

How do they add new genes?

Typos and Copy errors

I suggest you find some introductory reading to evolution. Maybe you should attempt to understand a theory you want to debunk

Why break a trend? We've never had an "evolution denier" who did that before...

[Big Jim P]

Come to think about it, Science does have faith as there are people who believe in it. So science has faith and evidence to support it's theories, whereas religion has faith with NO backing evidence. So science wins either way.